Naruto Kushina Lives
- Thread starter mortalone
- Start date
To be fair, they can often be the same thing. Hard to design hardware or theory without in in depth knowledge of how to program.
Likewise, most deep level programmers would have a knowledge of the hardware and how it works conceptually.
Being a SQL programmer, I was required to learn a lot about how database theory and design functions, and a few of the guys here get down to the metal in terms of DB programmer to make our online infastructure/distributed designs work. The Risk/Fraud analytic stuff required some intense math and logic design on the hardware levels to make it all accurate.
Likewise, most deep level programmers would have a knowledge of the hardware and how it works conceptually.
Being a SQL programmer, I was required to learn a lot about how database theory and design functions, and a few of the guys here get down to the metal in terms of DB programmer to make our online infastructure/distributed designs work. The Risk/Fraud analytic stuff required some intense math and logic design on the hardware levels to make it all accurate.
Doesn't Kushina say in the manga she was not all that great a ninja? I mean, she obviously had some skills, but that doesn't mean she's an s rank badass like Minato or Kakashi (in lore at least).
Honestly, I thik there are just too many unknowns, but i'm not sure the village woudl hand her the hat, seeing as her biggest trump card was taken from her. Gaara had the benefit of already being kage when his was taken.
I think events woudl flow more or less like canon, with the third retaining the hat, and giving Kushina the job of being narutos protector until such time as hes old enough to fufill his duties as a host. Espically considering hwo injured she has to be from that night's events.
While the hat can pass by family lines, it seems more based on the skill and leadership of the people in question.
I can see her talking someone like Jiraya into taking the position though, if hes in the village. Judging by canon, I don't think anyone would have raised objections to it, given they offered it to him in canon.
Honestly, I thik there are just too many unknowns, but i'm not sure the village woudl hand her the hat, seeing as her biggest trump card was taken from her. Gaara had the benefit of already being kage when his was taken.
I think events woudl flow more or less like canon, with the third retaining the hat, and giving Kushina the job of being narutos protector until such time as hes old enough to fufill his duties as a host. Espically considering hwo injured she has to be from that night's events.
While the hat can pass by family lines, it seems more based on the skill and leadership of the people in question.
I can see her talking someone like Jiraya into taking the position though, if hes in the village. Judging by canon, I don't think anyone would have raised objections to it, given they offered it to him in canon.
Not buying it still. No matter how strong they are, you don't tie your hands like that, if the situation calls for their use.
Even the strongest nations can be taken down by others working together. Konoha knows this quite well.
I'm calling fan wankery for Konoha strength for anyone who thinks they are invincible. Hell, the entire village was taken out by a single ninja PTS, and woudl have been pre-TS if Naruto, a host, hadn't taken on the enemy host.
From what we know of hosts post timeskip, they are effectively mutually assured destruction in action. If Konoha had enemies at the gate, like hell they wouldn't pull out theirs and send the enemy packing. It would be retarded not to. Likewise, I don't see why they wouldn't send theirs to the front if needed.
Even the strongest nations can be taken down by others working together. Konoha knows this quite well.
I'm calling fan wankery for Konoha strength for anyone who thinks they are invincible. Hell, the entire village was taken out by a single ninja PTS, and woudl have been pre-TS if Naruto, a host, hadn't taken on the enemy host.
From what we know of hosts post timeskip, they are effectively mutually assured destruction in action. If Konoha had enemies at the gate, like hell they wouldn't pull out theirs and send the enemy packing. It would be retarded not to. Likewise, I don't see why they wouldn't send theirs to the front if needed.
Then kindly explain why there was no information whatsoever in Konoha about mastering Kurama's chakra. Explain why Jiraya had that scar on his chest from trying to train Naruto in it and failing. Explain why, rather than trying to help him control the chakra, Yamato was there to push the chakra back into the seal.
Explain why- despite all the information Konoha obviously has in training Jinchuriki- Naruto has to go to Kumo to learn how its done.
Ah yes. Because Jiraya wasn't there or anything. You know, the guy who is an expert at sealing and gave Kakashi a seal to deal with Naruto. Yep, if one barely-trained Genin hadn't been there the whole village would have been wiped.
Sure. Except they didn't train Naruto as a Jinchuriki at all. Not until he went to Kumo.
I haven't been able to find the 2 flashback panels where Mito and Kushina say something to Kurama, but I'm pretty sure Mito at least never intended to use Kurama's power. "Stay silent inside of me" or something like that.
Explain why- despite all the information Konoha obviously has in training Jinchuriki- Naruto has to go to Kumo to learn how its done.
Ah yes. Because Jiraya wasn't there or anything. You know, the guy who is an expert at sealing and gave Kakashi a seal to deal with Naruto. Yep, if one barely-trained Genin hadn't been there the whole village would have been wiped.
Sure. Except they didn't train Naruto as a Jinchuriki at all. Not until he went to Kumo.
I haven't been able to find the 2 flashback panels where Mito and Kushina say something to Kurama, but I'm pretty sure Mito at least never intended to use Kurama's power. "Stay silent inside of me" or something like that.
This so hard.
Within a few years of Kurama, attacking, Konoha had either 3 or 4 (depending on Tsunade's opinion) S ranked ninja on their roster. Hiruzen, Itachi, and Jiraiya. In other villages, becoming an S ranked ninja is basically a free path to the 'kages seat. In Konoha, you pick the best of the litter.
Within a few years of Kurama, attacking, Konoha had either 3 or 4 (depending on Tsunade's opinion) S ranked ninja on their roster. Hiruzen, Itachi, and Jiraiya. In other villages, becoming an S ranked ninja is basically a free path to the 'kages seat. In Konoha, you pick the best of the litter.
Two words: scope creep.
Naruto wasn't trained because the idea that hosts were WMD was introduced near the later parts of the series, as a way to justify their powerups.
In retrospect, however, If you apply that knowledge to Kushina and Mito,I can't see why they wouldn't be used in similar capacities. In retrospect, Naruto should have, but yeah, most of the manga was created before the concept was introduced.
As for sending to Kumo? It was because they were trying to keep naruto and bee out of sight and isolated, to prevent their capture. I'm sure Konoha had more local ways to train a jinchuriki, seeing as their Kage fucking handed the bijou out to begin with, and they had a close relationship with Uzu. Jiraya may not have had access to that in the training trip, which again, was primarily done to keep him away from the enemy. Plus, yet again, there was no concept of hosts as WMD vital to village and country defense. Hell, Kumo left Nii on her own during the fight, instead of giving her the backup you would have logically expected given her importance.
Jiraya was preoccupied in the invasion, with the giant ass snakes IIRC. You know, the ones who were wrecking shop before he showed up. If Gaara had gone full on bijou mode in Konoha, losses woudl have been rather high all around. they were lucky in that he fled, and naruto was able to take him out.
Naruto wasn't trained because the idea that hosts were WMD was introduced near the later parts of the series, as a way to justify their powerups.
In retrospect, however, If you apply that knowledge to Kushina and Mito,I can't see why they wouldn't be used in similar capacities. In retrospect, Naruto should have, but yeah, most of the manga was created before the concept was introduced.
As for sending to Kumo? It was because they were trying to keep naruto and bee out of sight and isolated, to prevent their capture. I'm sure Konoha had more local ways to train a jinchuriki, seeing as their Kage fucking handed the bijou out to begin with, and they had a close relationship with Uzu. Jiraya may not have had access to that in the training trip, which again, was primarily done to keep him away from the enemy. Plus, yet again, there was no concept of hosts as WMD vital to village and country defense. Hell, Kumo left Nii on her own during the fight, instead of giving her the backup you would have logically expected given her importance.
Jiraya was preoccupied in the invasion, with the giant ass snakes IIRC. You know, the ones who were wrecking shop before he showed up. If Gaara had gone full on bijou mode in Konoha, losses woudl have been rather high all around. they were lucky in that he fled, and naruto was able to take him out.
Honestly, the whole "Kushina never actually used Kurama's chakra" seems to be based on much the same ground as "Tailed beast can only be sealed into babies".... And we all know how that one turned out. <_<
Hell, Naruto couldn't even get through his first C-rank mission without using it, and you all are expecting her to of gotten through a whole ninja war without doing so? :sweat:
Put it this way, activating the Sharingan might be rare in civilian members of the Uchiha, but with all the stress ninja are put under, it's downright weird for a Uchiha ninja to not do so, to the point of Obito being seen as a loser because he hadn't yet at the age of 13(or was it 14?). :sisi:
To say that she never used it, is basically to say that her seal was made so that she never could use it, and that idea.... Is really missing the whole point of the villages even keeping host in the first place. :crazy:
Hell, Naruto couldn't even get through his first C-rank mission without using it, and you all are expecting her to of gotten through a whole ninja war without doing so? :sweat:
Put it this way, activating the Sharingan might be rare in civilian members of the Uchiha, but with all the stress ninja are put under, it's downright weird for a Uchiha ninja to not do so, to the point of Obito being seen as a loser because he hadn't yet at the age of 13(or was it 14?). :sisi:
To say that she never used it, is basically to say that her seal was made so that she never could use it, and that idea.... Is really missing the whole point of the villages even keeping host in the first place. :crazy:
Not really. Kurama was first sealed away because he was too powerful to let roam free so Mito wanted him to "remain silent inside her". The idea of using Bijuu as weapons didn't happen until the Shinobi World Wars started which is likely after Mito's act (and Hashirama's death). It's not unreasonable to think that her seal was never intended to access Kurama's power in the same way we see in all the other jinchuuriki. She spent her entire life as jinchuuriki and lived through at least one of the wars, possibly two of them so Konoha still handled themselves. It wouldn't surprise me if Kushina was in the same situation and only Naruto was first weaponised jinchuuriki of Kurama, especially since no-one had any idea about how to train him.
:mellow: .....Dude, what exactly do you think they were doing with them before that? Having tea parties? :sweat:
Hashirama had eight of them under his control before giving them away in order to make the other village feel more comfortable.... Do you think the other villages just felt left out of having their own giant mascot? :hmm:
Host were nothing more then a new way to control the beast, but by no means the start of them being used as weapons.
Save for you know.... Kushina, who was the one to explain a lot of how it worked to Naruto.
Hashirama had eight of them under his control before giving them away in order to make the other village feel more comfortable.... Do you think the other villages just felt left out of having their own giant mascot? :hmm:
Host were nothing more then a new way to control the beast, but by no means the start of them being used as weapons.
Save for you know.... Kushina, who was the one to explain a lot of how it worked to Naruto.
Watch that tone, boy, or so help me I'll turn this thread around!
I'm quoting the databook:
During the Ninja World Wars, people became fascinated by the idea of using the Bijuu's overwhelming powers as weapons... However, controlling that power wasn't easy. So to be able to manipulate that power, the Bijuu were sealed into people. Thus, the "Jinchuuriki" were born. Despite this, it seems that power still couldn't be truly controlled.
Sauce? Killer Bee was the one who taught him, along with the toads telling him about how the Kyuubi would latch onto his hatred. All Kushina did was tell Naruto about her history and restrain the Kyuubi with her chakra chains.
I'm quoting the databook:
During the Ninja World Wars, people became fascinated by the idea of using the Bijuu's overwhelming powers as weapons... However, controlling that power wasn't easy. So to be able to manipulate that power, the Bijuu were sealed into people. Thus, the "Jinchuuriki" were born. Despite this, it seems that power still couldn't be truly controlled.
Sauce? Killer Bee was the one who taught him, along with the toads telling him about how the Kyuubi would latch onto his hatred. All Kushina did was tell Naruto about her history and restrain the Kyuubi with her chakra chains.
actually, it does. We know jack shit of pre-Village age.
Given how hard is to tame a biju if you don't have specific powers\tools, most likely scenario is "Biju appears->ninjas retire".
The other villages being "fascinated" by Hashirama(and\or Madara) controlling\using bijus and therefore developing the Jinchuriki method to weaponize them makes sense
That said, I don't think Kushina ever took Kurama's chakra by force, like Mito and Naruto: else Tobi would have though Naruto's sensing powers were like both Mito and Kushina, not only Kushina.
Given how hard is to tame a biju if you don't have specific powers\tools, most likely scenario is "Biju appears->ninjas retire".
The other villages being "fascinated" by Hashirama(and\or Madara) controlling\using bijus and therefore developing the Jinchuriki method to weaponize them makes sense
That said, I don't think Kushina ever took Kurama's chakra by force, like Mito and Naruto: else Tobi would have though Naruto's sensing powers were like both Mito and Kushina, not only Kushina.
Exactly. Lets not forget how different Kurama was in her seal to Naruto's seal. In Naruto he was sealed in a cage, yes but his was designed by Minato for Naruto to be able to use the chakra. Kurama had free movement inside that cage.
In Kushina Kurama has a stake through every limb, torso, and just to be sure Kushina's chakra chains are there as well.
Now, I'm NOT saying that theres no possibility at all of Kushina knowing how to use Kurama. I'm saying she would have been like Naruto was early shippuden when she DID use Kurama.
AKA: A mindless beast who would attack both friend and foe, and therefore a liability that would have been used far more cautiously.
We've been TOLD that perfect melds are only possible when Host and Bijuu cooperate.
Kushina's seal in no way promotes cooperation.
_________
Jiraya was preoccupied? How do you figure that? Because I recall Jiraya simply dropping a giant toad on it from the sky and bob's your uncle. Even if I'm not remembering it correctly, I still remember Jiraya beating it in one hit. As soon as the toad hit the snake was done.
I think that YOU think I'm talking academy and pre-time skip here. I'm not. I'm talking PTS.
"I'm sure" is not evidence. Especially in the face of Tsunade and Kakashi coming face-first with Jiraya's injury. Naruto almost killed Jiraya, one of the three legendary bloody Sannin while in 4-tail state, and the leaf did NOTHING about it. If they HAD the means to train him in properly using Kurama WHY did they not DO it? Instead, they sent him to rescue Gaara, where, surprise surprise, Naruto lost control over his anger and almost went 3-tails. (I think. Don't quote me on the number. Might have been 2.) And then they went back to Konoha and Naruto went to go try to find Sasuke where, surprise surprise, he went 4-tails and injured Sakura. Each time, that power had to be sealed away by something, whether it was Jiraya's seal or Yamato's mokuton. There was no learning to control it. There was only suppression.
If Konoha has a way of training Jinchuriki then why didn't it happen? Its not like there wasn't time for him to train in between. He created Rasenshuriken and bigger rasengans after all. And then he learned sage mode instead of learning how to control Kurama.
And lastly: "I'm sure Konoha had more local ways to train a jinchuriki, seeing as their Kage fucking handed the bijou out to begin with"
The important point that I think you're forgetting is exactly that. Their Kage handed them out. Specifically Hashirama. You know...<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c620/7.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this guy.</a> The one who made Madara his bitch.
And besides that, what makes you think that handing them out = knowing how to train jinchuriki? Mito was the first jinchuriki- if you don't count The Sage- that we know about. How exactly was Hashirama supposed to spontaneously invent a way to train the jinchuriki? Especially considering that he died some unspecified amount of time after that battle? Wasn't it said that his fight with Madara lead him to his grave?
In Kushina Kurama has a stake through every limb, torso, and just to be sure Kushina's chakra chains are there as well.
Now, I'm NOT saying that theres no possibility at all of Kushina knowing how to use Kurama. I'm saying she would have been like Naruto was early shippuden when she DID use Kurama.
AKA: A mindless beast who would attack both friend and foe, and therefore a liability that would have been used far more cautiously.
We've been TOLD that perfect melds are only possible when Host and Bijuu cooperate.
Kushina's seal in no way promotes cooperation.
_________
Jiraya was preoccupied? How do you figure that? Because I recall Jiraya simply dropping a giant toad on it from the sky and bob's your uncle. Even if I'm not remembering it correctly, I still remember Jiraya beating it in one hit. As soon as the toad hit the snake was done.
I think that YOU think I'm talking academy and pre-time skip here. I'm not. I'm talking PTS.
"I'm sure" is not evidence. Especially in the face of Tsunade and Kakashi coming face-first with Jiraya's injury. Naruto almost killed Jiraya, one of the three legendary bloody Sannin while in 4-tail state, and the leaf did NOTHING about it. If they HAD the means to train him in properly using Kurama WHY did they not DO it? Instead, they sent him to rescue Gaara, where, surprise surprise, Naruto lost control over his anger and almost went 3-tails. (I think. Don't quote me on the number. Might have been 2.) And then they went back to Konoha and Naruto went to go try to find Sasuke where, surprise surprise, he went 4-tails and injured Sakura. Each time, that power had to be sealed away by something, whether it was Jiraya's seal or Yamato's mokuton. There was no learning to control it. There was only suppression.
If Konoha has a way of training Jinchuriki then why didn't it happen? Its not like there wasn't time for him to train in between. He created Rasenshuriken and bigger rasengans after all. And then he learned sage mode instead of learning how to control Kurama.
And lastly: "I'm sure Konoha had more local ways to train a jinchuriki, seeing as their Kage fucking handed the bijou out to begin with"
The important point that I think you're forgetting is exactly that. Their Kage handed them out. Specifically Hashirama. You know...<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c620/7.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this guy.</a> The one who made Madara his bitch.
And besides that, what makes you think that handing them out = knowing how to train jinchuriki? Mito was the first jinchuriki- if you don't count The Sage- that we know about. How exactly was Hashirama supposed to spontaneously invent a way to train the jinchuriki? Especially considering that he died some unspecified amount of time after that battle? Wasn't it said that his fight with Madara lead him to his grave?
(looks at chapters)
Well, in part just me remembering it wrong, but.....
<a href='http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53165-8/naruto/chapter-498.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53165-8/naruto/chapter-498.html</a>
It does say that one of the reasons she was put there was to help him out when he tries to take control of Kurama's chakra, which when put with her seeming to know full well what's going on...
<a href='http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-3/naruto/chapter-499.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-3/naruto/chapter-499.html</a>
<a href='http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-5/naruto/chapter-499.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-5/naruto/chapter-499.html</a>
Does seem to point to them knowing at least the basics.
Well, in part just me remembering it wrong, but.....
<a href='http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53165-8/naruto/chapter-498.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53165-8/naruto/chapter-498.html</a>
It does say that one of the reasons she was put there was to help him out when he tries to take control of Kurama's chakra, which when put with her seeming to know full well what's going on...
<a href='http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-3/naruto/chapter-499.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-3/naruto/chapter-499.html</a>
<a href='http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-5/naruto/chapter-499.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangapanda.com/93-53820-5/naruto/chapter-499.html</a>
Does seem to point to them knowing at least the basics.