Least Forgivable Tsundere

[Prince Charon]

There are a lot of tsundere out there, some more violent than others (and a few not really violent at all - this discussion only concerns the genuinely abusive ones). Few of them are really justified in their bitchy violence, but some of them could at least be forgiven, if they'd stop the violence, sincerely apologise, and try to make up for it (and in many cases, get a competent therapist). Others, however, are so cruel, that no amount of grovelling could make up for it. Jail time and/or slavery might, though.

In all of anime, manga and related games, who would you say is the least forgivable tsundere?

IMHO, Louise Franþoise de la Baume le Blanc de la ValliÞre, aka 'Zero', is certainly competitive: even though its played for (disturbing) laughs, and the injuries heal right after, it clearly still hurts to get them. Tendo Akane and Narusegawa Naru are quite a bit less sadistic to their male leads, which says a lot.

 

[ZeroForever]

Louise is bad... but saito is also a man whore (he gives into carnel lust alot in the novels, and realistically if a commoner even looked like they cheated on a noble the commoner would be dead not just whipped), though that series just annoys me in general as the author just keeps rebounding there relationship progression.


honestly, least forgivable is just paraphrasing our opinions for ones that you like the least(hate the most). Most (90%+) would see jail time for the comedic violence that they preform in modern times.

 

[PCHeintz72]

Hmmm... this is difficult, as some of the ones I can think of that most qualify, could not really top those three, and some that might fit the pattern, I'm not convinced are truly Tsundere's.

The problem is a lot of being Tsundere seems to be in the hands of the series creator. Thus the definition varies a bit.

For example... I do not personally consider Akane Tendo as Tsundere. But whatever.

 

[Slave to my muse]

Louise is bad... but saito is a complete idiot and also a man whore who deserves everything he gets (he gives into carnel lust alot in the novels, and realistically if a commoner even looked like they cheated on a noble the commoner would be dead not just whipped), though that series just annoys me in general as the author just keeps rebounding there relationship progression.

Edited for greater accuracy.

Louise may be a pretty bad Tsundere, but I personally think Saito deserved everything he got (normally).

........Can't really think of any Tsundere off the top of my head who is really just cruel for the sake of being cruel.

 

[PCHeintz72]

Louise is bad... but saito is a complete idiot and also a man whore who deserves everything he gets (he gives into carnel lust alot in the novels, and realistically if a commoner even looked like they cheated on a noble? the commoner would be dead not just whipped), though that series just annoys me in general as the author just keeps rebounding there relationship progression.

Edited for greater accuracy.

Louise may be a pretty bad Tsundere, but I personally think Saito deserved everything he got (normally).

........Can't really think of any Tsundere off the top of my head who is really just cruel for the sake of being cruel.

I think it should be further clarified... Saito in anime is *not* Saito in the other media.

While he most certainly looks at other girls (Ex. Siesta) and is certainly not like Ranma in being able to ignore most stuff of that sort... He in no way strikes me as how anyone has described to me how he acts in the other media.

I point this out as I've not seen the other media, and am *always* surprised at the view of him as being this way.

 

[Christopher Robin]

Even anime Saito was an idiot. Despite the fact he admits he loves Louise, he (openly) lusts after other girls. Seriously, what the hell was that at the end of season 2, for instance?

 

[grant]

Frankly nearly every tsundere character does things that would be hard (to say the least) to tolerate in real life so this is a lot more difficult than the yandere one. I can't think of any single character, but maybe someone who acts cruelly towards their significant other even when they know the truth. Anyone like that in manga/anime?

 

[Hypothesis]

I can't think of any single character, but maybe someone who acts cruelly towards their significant other even when they know the truth. Anyone like that in manga/anime?

Asuka? Motoko (though Keitaro can't really be called a significant other)?

 

[Ryogas_BF]

I'm going to say this right now. I am not a fan of the Tsundere archtype... it's always the most over blown archtype and rarely used effectively (IMO). Unfortunately it's hard to ignore because creators LOVE that archtype, usually for it's main female protagonist...

that being said here's the ones that come to mind.

Narusegawa Naru... a well known example but I am looking beyond the physical abuse on this one, as everyones knows that (the manga being slightly more tolerable to the anime in that department). It's her attitude... her and keitaro have a fairly standard relationship tsundere wise for a majority of the manga... but in one go late int he manga things change. Keitaro has been growing and shaping over the course of the manga and finally has grown into a man worthy of Naru's original set of interested... and all of the sudden she goes from stagnant character growth to outright regressing and seems to trust him less and her own crippling inferiority crisis. the last two volumes of manga Naru is running (figuratively and literly) from a desperate keitaro... every single dam female has to step asside just so they can get together even though everyone outside of maybe kitsune understood keitaro much more... err, I'm probably getting off topic but it just frustrates me more then anything...

Haruhi Suzumiya... I may get blasted a bit for this one but I never liked Haruhi as a character. She's annoying, bossy and gets away with just about everything she wants. Even beyond the 'don;t upset god' things she does all manner of horrible things to those around her and never suffers anything more then a half hearted scolding. I don't know if she improves much beyond book 3-4... which ever was the Yuki based one. (I haven't kept up on it as much as I don't enjoy haruhi even though I like Kyon's narration.)

 

[knight_of_ni]

Haruhi Suzumiya... I may get blasted a bit for this one but I never liked Haruhi as a character. She's annoying, bossy and gets away with just about everything she wants. Even beyond the 'don;t upset god' things she does all manner of horrible things to those around her and never suffers anything more then a half hearted scolding. I don't know if she improves much beyond book 3-4... which ever was the Yuki based one. (I haven't kept up on it as much as I don't enjoy haruhi even though I like Kyon's narration.)

I definitely agree on Haruhi, she is a character that pisses me off on many levels. The don't upset a god thing pisses me off, for various reasons, the thought of a god on Earth, a higher being that looks and acts the same as us, just annoys me. Basically for the fact that they would be able to get away with pretty much anything they want. Then yeah, the stuff she does is just ridiculous. Even if the characters that know she is a god don't stop her, that others don't is just...ugh...

 

[Souffle]

Narusegawa Naru.

 

[ZeroForever]

the issue with haruhi is I don't think she would fall under the 'Tsundere' catagory (regardless of how board it is) as she doesn't really have a sweet nice side to her (she's a equal opportunity bitch, i don't really recall her melting and becoming nice once she got to know anyone).


side thought i can list my 2 favorite tsundere's pretty easily though... Chisame and Rin.

 

[zeebee1]

She has the potential to be a tsundere, but she hasn't let out her nice side long enough.

 

[TheEcchiSessha]

Louise is bad... but saito is a complete idiot and also a man whore who deserves everything he gets (he gives into carnel lust alot in the novels, and realistically if a commoner even looked like they cheated on a nobleá the commoner would be dead not just whipped), though that series just annoys me in general as the author just keeps rebounding there relationship progression.

Edited for greater accuracy.

Louise may be a pretty bad Tsundere, but I personally think Saito deserved everything he got (normally).

........Can't really think of any Tsundere off the top of my head who is really just cruel for the sake of being cruel.

I think it should be further clarified... Saito in anime is *not* Saito in the other media.

While he most certainly looks at other girls (Ex. Siesta) and is certainly not like Ranma in being able to ignore most stuff of that sort... He in no way strikes me as how anyone has described to me how he acts in the other media.

I point this out as I've not seen the other media, and am *always* surprised at the view of him as being this way.

I'm gonna agree with PC here. You guys are holding Saito to a double standard.

He has only multiple occasion said he "likes" or "loves" Loiuse, yet she has NEVER said anything of the sort back. He has, on many occasions, shown he likes Louise with his actions. Louise.... not really. She gotten angry at Saito for looking at other girls, but she says its only because " He is her familiar and he should only look at her."

Saito views Louise's behavior as that of a master of a pet. For fuck's sake, he is a TEENAGER. He has ZERO experience with relationships. He will, of course, take what she says at face value. It is UNDENIABLY OBVIOUS that he would look or pay attention to girls that act like they like him.

Relationships are a 2-way street, both parties have to work together. Saito tries as much a teenager with limited experience can, Loiuse doesn't. That's why she is a Tsundere.

As for Saito being a man-whore... :rofl: He's a teenager with those RAGING teenage hormones. Remember what those are like, then come back and tell me you still disagree.

/rant

Don't know why but this topic seemed to press all the wrong buttons for me. The anime was bad,at least the character development was. The novel is much better. I don't really consider the anime to be "canon" though that could be argued. It was mostly fan-service.

~TheEcchiSessha

 

[Luthorne]

Meh. I can't speak for the anime or the novels, having read/seen neither, but in the manga, I have no sympathy for Saito. If you're going to have the grim determination to stick to one girl who primarily offers you abuse when there are other girls blatantly showing their interest, have the balls to either give up on the first one, or have the balls to stick to your guns. The fact that he seems to be an idiot doesn't help any.

Frankly, I have more sympathy for Louise...she's been repeatedly humiliated due to her apparent lack of talent in magic, the last thing she needs is an apparently useless familiar, and every time she thinks it might not be so bad, he winds up doing something retarded and embarassing. Sure, this isn't entirely Saito's fault, but the fact of the matter is that she's been attempting to maintain her pride and dignity despite a rather large number of issues that make it hard to do so, and Saito is just one more straw on a very overburdened loli camel's back.

Of course, I don't like Louise all that much either, and, of course, like I said, I've only read some of the manga, but I found Saito to be far more irritating than Louise. People keep saying that his puberty excuses his behavior, somehow, but while I did a lot of stupid things when I was a teenager, Saito's excesses were certainly not amongst them. And I would like to think that even at that age, I would have been more interested in one of the other girls, rather than the one offering constant pain and humiliation...or at least attempted to see Louise's side of things and tried to work out a way with her to minimize both of our problems. But, at any rate, I disliked the manga, which is why I no longer read it.

At any rate. Worst tsundere. Hmm...

For female tsundere...probably Asuka Langley Soryu, from Neon Genesis Evangelion, the television series.

As for male tsundere...probably Sasuke Uchiha from Naruto, the manga.

 

[grant]

I stopped reading the series a long time ago, does Sasuke actually like someone?

 

[Luthorne]

I stopped reading the series a long time ago, does Sasuke actually like someone?

Being a tsundere doesn't necessarily require that you like someone in a romantic sense, just that there be a more caring side somewhere, which, again, is not necessarily romantic in nature. Of course, the other part of that is a reluctance to allow people in, usually preventing it by being either cold or angry with them. While most people associate tsundere with violence, it can just as easily be an ice queen (or king) who avoids getting close to people for reasons of his own. The fact that Sasuke actually managed to form an attachment for his teammates, demonstrated both in Wave and in the Forest of Death, is more than enough to qualify him as a tsundere in my eyes.

 

[shinzero01]

I stopped reading the series a long time ago, does Sasuke actually like someone?

Being a tsundere doesn't necessarily require that you like someone in a romantic sense, just that there be a more caring side somewhere, which, again, is not necessarily romantic in nature. Of course, the other part of that is a reluctance to allow people in, usually preventing it by being either cold or angry with them. While most people associate tsundere with violence, it can just as easily be an ice queen (or king) who avoids getting close to people for reasons of his own. The fact that Sasuke actually managed to form an attachment for his teammates, demonstrated both in Wave and in the Forest of Death, is more than enough to qualify him as a tsundere in my eyes.

He's more attached to his current manga teammates than his old ones.

When they were all down and half dead his eyes had the power of FIRE.

 

[ZeroForever]

LOL completely forgot about sasuke... yeah he would fall under that...


side note, louise does admit to loving saito... to the point when it looks like he left her and returned to our world she tries to commit suicide rather then be without him. I don't condone her behavior but when he admits to loving her back but gives into lust at the next pair of boobies I give up trying to really defend him.

 

[PCHeintz72]

LOL completely forgot about sasuke... yeah he would fall under that...


side note, louise does admit to loving saito... to the point when it looks like he left her and returned to our world she tries to commit suicide rather then be without him. I don't condone her behavior but when he admits to loving her back but gives into lust at the next pair of boobies I give up trying to really defend him.

For anime continuity... I gave up all potential like I had for her as a character when she did the night of whipping and forced him to sign that contract.

 

[AkinaAE86]

I would list all the females in Domina no Do. Sans the loli sister, her maid and the watersports girl.

 

[Prince Charon]

For female tsundere...probably Asuka Langley Soryu, from Neon Genesis Evangelion, the television series.

I wouldn't call Asuka Least Forgivable, personally. She's a stressed out and stressful bitch that needs competent therapy, but she's not as bad as some of the others.

 

[Luthorne]

For female tsundere...probably Asuka Langley Soryu, from Neon Genesis Evangelion, the television series.

I wouldn't call Asuka Least Forgivable, personally. She's a stressed out and stressful bitch that needs competent therapy, but she's not as bad as some of the others.

Neon Genesis Evangelion has more realistic characterization than many other series with more extreme tsundere in them, though. Thus, while her actions are technically less extreme than those of other tsundere, I find them to be more reprehensible when viewed in context. Also, other tsundere usually have more redeeming characteristics than I view Asuka as having.

Of course, I recognize that to be a subjective statement, but this whole topic is rather subjective in the first place. :mellow:

 

[Maelgrim]

While I didn't like her I always felt that Asuka had a bit more leeway in terms of being Tsundere due to being more or less utterly insane, anime at least. The manga hasn't really developed her enough to be more mad then bitch yet.

Naru always took the top spot as must unforgivable for me, though I'll admit this is mostly because I gave up in boredom after five volumes of the Manga and in disgust after one DVD of the anime so maybe I missed a really good reason for her to physically abuse someone almost constantly.

 

[nuclear death frog]

Narusegawa Naru is the most unreasonable I've seen, though I won't swear to her being the worst out there. It's possible but I don't know.