Akamatsuverse LH Manga vs Anime

Terdwilicker · Jul 27, 2006

I own the LH anime and have watched it many times. I just got ahold of the Manga and am reading it from the beginning. I've noticed lots of differences between it and the anime, though they're often subtle ones, like when he meets the girls (all at once in the manga), and their characters are slightly off. I also have to mention that the drawing artwork is really superb in LH manga. I'm really quite impressed. I wonder just how many manga K. Akamatsu drew before he did LH. Its too nice and shows the efforts of multiple people including at least two layout artists, a shading artist, a serious architectural draftsman (those buildings are really well rendered), and a landscape artist for the backgrounds. I can see Akamatsu having done the characters and rough sketches of the background but the rest are multiple drawing styles. You can see the hands are different. Its really nicely done though and the overall look is magnificent.

Something I wonder about is during the coming anime renaissance (I am predicting one based on US fans and PC's doing the animation), if fans might animate and fan-dub the missing volumes of the manga that the movies fairly blow through so the series is better fleshed out? Does that seem silly? I think fans are pretty tired of paying too much and waiting too long for many animes which aren't as complete as they ought to be. Differences between fans and directors who work on deadlines and budgets can make a surprising result. In 10 years it might not be that unreasonable to have lots of fans making anime, working on bits of them, or sharing their computer power in distributed networks (like SETI@HOME) to render the complex bits, perhaps. Whatever happens, art is only going to get more common.

Moshulel · Jul 27, 2006

Comparing the two i can say i liked the manga a whole lot more, i'm not too fond of the anime. A lot of stuff was skipped and things were slightly ( alot) exagerated in some tendencies.

Now as for fan-made anime... there is still a long way to go till then, not as much as there was let's say 10 years ago but still... it still involves time and resources that people might use otherwise.

Israfel · Jul 27, 2006

Meh, there are all ready Fanfics that are rampantly popular among anime fans (duh, if you're here and don't know that then...) and in Japan making FanComics (or fan made manga in other words)has a very large following as well so this would be the natural progression to have fans begin making anime, in fact it's been done a few tims all ready, though they were almost all hentai works, and definitely not up to par with the licensed works.

Terdwilicker · Jul 27, 2006

Something I wonder about is if US anime fans would take the natural course and produce US anime in US cities. They tended in the past to make traditional Marvel superheros (Underwear Perverts since "Superhero" is now trademarked, the bastards). That or go live action. Its cheaper to make sitcoms than to make anime, which is why sitcoms suck so bad. In the near future, within around 5 years, unemployment is going to take a major upswing so I think a lot of creative people will have no hope of a paying job. But creative people work on their stuff whether they're paid or not, so they'll probably do creative stuff. If enough of them are anime fans and they're mostly too poor to buy it from Japan, they may sit down and make US animes. Thus far Dark Knight (Batman) and Avatar have been the only really good US animes. I would love to see a Japanese anime art style approach set in the US city, like Baltimore or San Francisco or Boston. Cities with character and charm, not just Metropolis or Gotham. Maybe I'm expecting too much. Still, it would be good to see it happen. Animation software has been good enough to do this for 15 years but it mostly hasn't happened. Imagine a LH type story that was based on Lake Tahoe as the setting, taking in the scenery and local color. There are lots of places which deserve anime's being made about them. Mad scientists as Los Alamos labs in New Mexico competing with Navajo gods setting but actually a romantic comedy. Or a love story based on the islands in Puget Sound. Or a truck stop in central Nevada on I-80. All sorts of things that would never make it to network tv, thus never get made except by fans. Probably seems silly, huh?

SimmyC · Jul 27, 2006

Well the main issue we have in the United States is the fact that we still consider cartoons as a 'kids' thing despite the growing popularity of anime. Hell, quite a few anime programs are still bastardized by censorship (i.e. 4Kids programs). While this is changing (thankfully) especially with Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, don't expect any R-rated SERIOUS animated programs from the United States anytime soon. Crazy comedy animated programs yes (South Park, The Simpsons, Family Guy, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, etc.), but no where near the realm of Love Hina.

I will say though, comic book cartoons are certainly up there in writing and quality. At the moment, I think they are the only ones that are really trying to push the medium to become more acceptable to American audiences older than 12. Otherwise, they will keep losing the +12 crowd to anime.

As for fan anime... problem again is time and resources. I mean, if you're going getting paid for this, where are you going to get the talent to not only do the animation, but also the voice acting? While computers certainly make the animation process a bit easier, the rest will be hard to come by (not impossible. I.e., all those flash movies, but not easy either). And of course, all of the fan anime/movies made so far... kind of cruddy. At least with fan comics (doujinshi) a really good artist could emulate the style of the original design. Not that easy with animation.

Israfel · Jul 27, 2006

Hehe, yah, it'll be a cold day in Hell (not the one in Michigan) before we see Elfen Lied playing on any American TV station anywhere.

Meh, fans have proven again and again just how far their determination can go, and to what lengths they're willing to go to for their favored series. Need anymore proof, look at how D&R and EOE got made, or so forced into being, if anyone here doesn't know the story I will be very disappointed.

SimmyC · Jul 27, 2006

SimmyC said:

Aqua TEAM Hunger Force. :headbanger:

I meant to add that NOT there. Not to mention the 'going' needs to go. Yup. Did need a little sleep afterwards. :no:

And yeah, Elfen Lied probably will never be seen on American Network TV (cable different story. But that's been true for years). The closet 'serious' cartoon not meant for kids, was I believe Invasion America that was shown on the WB. Though after 6 episode (instead of 12. They combined two half-hour shows into one), it was canceled. Either the US was not ready (and may never be ready), or the simple fact that it was on WB hurt it. <_<

Though I do know The Batman is out and about on WB Kids or whatever that block is called (might soon be called CW Kids given the change). Well written and animated show. Still 'kid friendly' though, just that, I wouldn't recommand any 12 year olds to watch it. ^_^

Israfel · Jul 27, 2006

Heh, probably the most serious and 'adult' series that has been played on American TV is either Cowboy Bebop or Eva, then again, they only got halfway through Eva before it was taken off the air (on Adult Swim) so they didn't even really get to the juicy stuff. I can't think of anything else, maybe Outlaw Star at best, but otherwise, nah.

Terdwilicker · Jul 27, 2006

My vision for american anime is grass-roots, by the fans not the networks. Even Adult Swim is letting only low grade humor anime's on. They're still funny, but they're not the level of quality of emotional depth of the shows fans love. Adult Swim are just cartoons with more adult jokes, not anime equivalent of Shakespeare. However, when you take the money out of it, and go to fan based... well hell, consider US Doujinshi like Megatokyo. That's drawn and created by US anime fans who've been at it for something like 8 years, most of it with no income from their work. Its a free webcomic, and production is slow, something like 2 pages a week most of the time. The story has been crawling along but the quality is high and its earned a lot of fans for that reason. The creator eventually went full time on Megatokyo and runs a teeshirt shop for the fans so he gets some income. The webcomic field is too full, as it is now, and some of the funnier ones went to flash anime, like Strongbad Email and Ill Will Press (Neurotically Yours), which sold enough shirts to get into Hot Topic (teenager's mall junk store). While we can argue about whether anything at a mall could be "cool", the fact that it was popular enough to arrive there speaks for itself.

It IS possible to effectively market and distribute modern Anime through the Internet(s) if you can establish a fan base. As the costs of such thing are declining all the time, and the software gets better as well as the cost of good computers capable of rendering it in a meaningful amount of time... well, it seems more and more possible. I don't expect fogies to get into this. I don't expect the primitive media like broadcast TV or even cable to pick it up, but direct internet "narrowcasting" (on-demand downloads/streaming) will.

So don't give up hope. Your younger brother or neighbor's kids might be tomorrows homemade anime creator. Stranger things have happened.

SimmyC · Jul 28, 2006

Thing about Eva and Cowboy Bebop Israfel is... well, they are still Japanese anime.

What I was thinking of was American 'produced/made' anime (cartoons). And I was thinking less about the Aqua Team Hunger Force/Tom Goes to the Mayor/Venture Bros. and more say, Invasion America or a more 'adult' Batman (the latter probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. The first I already said was canceled after 6 episodes. But yeah...).

Oh, and Evangelion IS still on Adult Swim. They moved it to the Weekday instead of the Weekend, but it is still on.

As for fanmade stuff, or 'amatuer' stuff probably more appropriate, are showing up. But they are in the mold of the 'low grade humor' area. For example, Happy Tree Friends on G4 (which started off as flash animation). A cartoon about cute animals, that are horribly vicerated each episode. Speaking of Flash animation though, a number of more serious animation stuff ARE showing up there (haven't seen them myself, but I have heard about it on G4), problem again is, well, online again. While growing, not exactly the huge market at the moment. And the animation is still limited. I'm assuming this is what you mean by grass roots.

Israfel · Jul 28, 2006

Oh, woops, I thought we were talking about serious anime that has showed up on American TV, not serious cartoons made in America, just a mistake of understanding.

Meh, last time I watched Adult Swin was years ago so I'm not exactly up on all that's going on with it currently.

Terdwilicker · Jul 28, 2006

I'm talking about serious quality anime that looks like the Japanese stuff (made in Korea mostly), but made by artists here in the USA. Fanime, so to speak. Not cartoons.

Israfel · Jul 28, 2006

Ok that's what I thought in the first place but then Simmy had me thinking that you meant cartoons from his post, I'm so confused. :huh.:

Legacy|iB · Jul 28, 2006

It might be possible.

As practically everything has inspired fanfiction authors like us to write fanfics, and how mangas have inspired people to make doujins, maybe soon people might go into making full animations. I would certainly hope so. I doubt it would be any time soon, and even so, it would be awhile before people in North America catch onto doing it. Hell, by the time it gets around, Love Hina will be old enough that I'm tempted to think not many people would bother going to recreate the manga in animation form.

It's too bad, since the manga had some really good parts. I liked the anime but if it had a bit from the manga, it would have been even better.

SimmyC · Jul 28, 2006

IMO, the look shouldn't matter. In fact, a LOT of the new American 'animation' does have that 'anime' look. I mean, just look at Teen Titans. Sure it is an American show, but the sweat drops, exagerated expressions, the character designs, etc. all anime influenced.

And in reality, cartoons = anime. Yes, they have been differentiated to mean two different markets (i.e. the first for American stuff, i.e. kiddy) but that is primarily because that's what we as Americans have been calling them ever since Walt Disney made a moving mouse, and the market that they have been traditionally regulated too. The only differences are a more arbitrary differentiation, i.e. character design (big eyes, sharper faces, etc.) and of course, story, usually for the more older crowd (I'm not sure I will say story 'quality' since like everything, there are some REALLY bad anime out there. Not to mention, there are anime that are meant for children. I.e. Hamtaro).

I was thinking more about the content anyways. And again, fanime, while not impossible, IS hard, well, harder for doujinshi type stuff to appear. I mean, you need to have a program that can animate said characters and look... at the very least, decent (not stick figures for example), some special effects (more programing) and... voice acting. Again, not impossible, but not easy either.

And of course, fanmade stuff in the US can NOT be sold due to copywrite laws (I'm not sure about Japan, but I think that you're allowed to sell it as long as YOU'RE the publisher using your OWN money. So you take the financial hit on each Doujinshi made. Of course, you also gain the cash too since you don't have to worry about a publisher). In the US... not possible. So the financial incentive would again, not be there.

Now, if you're talking about original stuff, well, that isn't fanime so to speak, but more, well, amatuer 'anime' animator. You could in theory make money off of this. The problem again is, advertising, resources, time, and where you're going to put it up, and how you're going to earn money off of it. Again, not easy.

toraneko · Jul 28, 2006

Well, I suppose my two cents go here. Finally got my Internet connection back.

Fan-made material will likely never have the kind of semi-professional following in the US as it has in Japan. The reason? Companies are far more protective of their property rights in the US, and our legal system doesn't make it hard for corporations to go after those who infringe on them. In Japan, the doujinshi market drives the industry, whereas in the US, it's a much different story.

Original works are a big thing, however. Megatokyo and others are a pretty good example; the use of the Internet helps keep the fanbase large and growing. There is always the issue of pirated art and plagiarism, but again, if the artist's work is popular enough, it becomes virtually impossible to get away with plagiarizing it.
There is, however, a decent-sized base for "radio play" adaptations of webcomics. These are usually done by the fans present on the forums connected to any given webcomic. They aren't official, and are purely for entertainment (non-profit), but the series creators often enjoy them. The obvious exercise in voice acting seems to be a good first step toward having a voice cast for an animated adaptation.

I do feel I should point out a good example of American-made small-studio animation: Fred Perry's "Gold Digger". He's been publishing the comic through Antarctic Press for well over a decade (IIRC), and has always done the entire process - from scripting and storyboarding, to inking and, more recently, coloring - by himself. He does not have studio assistants, unless you count his PC. Yet, somehow, he still has time for a webcomic or two, and videogames as well.
More recently, he has been animating the early issues of GD, and he's still doing it mostly solo, though he does get assistance for sound effects, BGM, and (of course) voice acting. He's said at convention panels that he intends to eventually animate the entire GD series.

I feel that American animation is often weak, episodic, and has no running plotline. However, there are some very notable exceptions. One of my favorite shows some years back was Disney's Gargoyles. It had superb animation, excellent voice acting, and cohesive, deep storylines and plotting. The characters were usually deep, and each one got a significant amount of development and depth. It did get weak toward the end, but the Oberon arc was a fantastic high point.

Now, back to our original topic. :lol:

Akamatsu Ken did have one lesser-known published work that I know of: A.I. ga Tomaranai (translated and published by Tokyopop as "A.I. Love You"). It was the story of a college student programmer, who wrote artificial intelligence programs with human-like personalities to keep him company since he had no popularity with the girls. One day, a freak lightning storm happened while he left his computer running A. I. Number Thirty, and Bang! There she was in real life.
The overall setting and action of the story is something of a combination of "Oh My Goddess!", "Video Girl Ai", and the movie "Weird Science". The manga was pretty cheesy, though, and didn't make it past four short volumes.
I don't know when it was that he got it, exactly, but Akamatsu has his own manga studio, with some assistants. One of them, going by the penname of "Magi", was the artist of a somewhat-infamous Final Fantasy 7 ero-doujin starring Yuffie, and due to having worked so much with Akamatsu, his art style was so similar that many credited the doujin to Akamatsu himself.

Personally, I find the LH manga to be far superior to the anime. The characters get more development and depth, and many events occurred that the anime never touched upon. Motoko's second fight with Tsuruko is one of the most notable there.

Israfel · Jul 28, 2006

Akamatsu Ken did have one lesser-known published work that I know of: A.I. ga Tomaranai (translated and published by Tokyopop as "A.I. Love You"). It was the story of a college student programmer, who wrote artificial intelligence programs with human-like personalities to keep him company since he had no popularity with the girls. One day, a freak lightning storm happened while he left his computer running A. I. Number Thirty, and Bang! There she was in real life.
The overall setting and action of the story is something of a combination of "Oh My Goddess!", "Video Girl Ai", and the movie "Weird Science". The manga was pretty cheesy, though, and didn't make it past four short volumes.
I don't know when it was that he got it, exactly, but Akamatsu has his own manga studio, with some assistants. One of them, going by the penname of "Magi", was the artist of a somewhat-infamous Final Fantasy 7 ero-doujin starring Yuffie, and due to having worked so much with Akamatsu, his art style was so similar that many credited the doujin to Akamatsu himself.

It only had four issues? Really, then how is it that I own up to issue number seven? It is lesser know than LH or Negima, but it most certainly hasn't been canceled and I've been following it since it came out, so I know that the next is on the way as well.

toraneko · Jul 29, 2006

Israfel said:

I stand corrected! Thanks for the update, Israfel.

I stand by my summation of the concept, however. ^_^

EagleCeres · Jul 29, 2006

Going back to the original Topic,
LH Manga > LH Anime

As stated before it does have a lot better character development and of course the art starts at a very good level yet it evolves slightly. Regretfully, many storyarcs are cut/modified to make it more mainstream and popular (as with other manga->anime translations).

Personally I would have loved the whole books 9-11 had been done in anime and not as it was crunched into the OAV's and movies. Sure it would have given Kei a slight case of character modification, but it would have also given more airtime to all the other Hina girls and not just Naru.

As for anime only characters, Kentaro, Amalla, Ramba and Mei were a good adittion to the cast, but (being manga biased) i feel they were more of a bunch of additonal plot twists, made it funny and zany... but i wouls have rather had the complete books 11+ storyarcs.

Alzrius · Jul 29, 2006

Israfel said:

There's a total of eight volumes of AI ga Tomaranai ("A.I. Love You"), all of which have been published domestically in America in English. My best friend gave me the series for a holiday gift last year.

Much lesser-known is that Akamatsu did, after AI but before Love Hina, a very short (around forty pages or so) manga called Itsudatte My Santa! ("Always My Santa!" I think), about a girl named Mai being the new/current Santa Claus. She meets a boy whose real name is Santa; he hates Christmas due to being born on 12/24, and thus never gets his birthday celebrated. There's a two-episode OVA of the series.

While it was never a manga, Ground Defense Force Mao-chan (I don't know the original Japanese name) is an anime also by Akamatsu. It has a lot of Love Hina parodies, such as the commander of Mao and her friends looking exactly like Naru (and one of the voice actresses for the series is also Naru's seiyuu).

Israfel · Jul 29, 2006

Hmm, nice gift, I haven't gotten any manga for awhile so I wasn't aware that the eigth had come out yet, I'll have to get it soon.

I heard of that one but never got around to picking it up, I probably will one of these days, just not now, too many things on the list all ready.

GenocideHeart · Jul 29, 2006

I've read teh Santa story. Nice. If you can find it, Izzy, get it. It's good, after all.

Israfel · Jul 29, 2006

Yah, I probably would have gotten it by now but it's just that I haven't left my house in a couple of months now so I haven't been to a manga store for even longer than that, so I'm somewhat out of touch with the rest of the world right now. I'm somewhat of a shut-in, so seeing the light of day is a pretty rare event for me.

GenocideHeart · Jul 29, 2006

Israfel said:

VAMPIRE!!

*sprinkles you with holy water, hangs garlic to your neck, puts a cross on your groin and stakes you*

Israfel · Jul 29, 2006

Pretty much, remember how, when I would describe my appearance I would say 'one shade away from albino' for my skin color? How do you think it got that way? It doesn't help that I have naturally very thin and translucent skin, I can trace a vein up my wrist all the back to my chest, just too give you an idea of the kind of translucency I'm talking about. Oh, and if I try to tan, three things happen, I burn, I peel, I come out paler than I started with, it's not a good process.

Akamatsuverse LH Manga vs Anime

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