Akamatsuverse Negima: Farewell to the Flesh

[Ura Mamoru]

I was having a bit of trouble finding the right words to express that without it coming off as insulting as I ended up coming across there. Sorry about that.


As for the opinions on the way magic is used, it's a consequence of having the story focused on a lead character who went into the Magic Swordsman style of magic (where those particular types of uses for magic are emphasized), combined with the genre in question. Uses for magic outside of buffs and direct-offense magic just aren't going to be the central part of the story, given how the series runs.

If, say, a side-story was written involving the full length of the events Nodoka went through as a treasure hunter or what Haruna did for the period of time between the Gateport Incident and their respective reunions with Negi, the particular focus of the story would be different, and other uses of magic would get more representation.

I can understand your opinion, but I suppose I've just never seen it as a negative to the series.


On a partially-related note (being a thought regarding some of the things you don't care for), I keep wondering what a game that used a system like Magia Erebea as a major focus of the game system would end up being like, and what other kinds of forms could result from it.


EDIT - Thinking about it, maybe we'd have seen more of the alternate uses of magic if Negi had gone the standard Mage route?

 

[Alzrius]

á? I was having a bit of trouble finding the right words to express that without it coming off as insulting as I ended up coming across there. Sorry about that.

Thanks for saying that. I'm really quite glad to be having an in-depth discussion about something with people who hold different points of view and are willing to debate the material, without it devolving into a flame war. That happens so rarely on the internet.

Here's to disagreeing without being disagreeable! :yay:

As for the opinions on the way magic is used, it's a consequence of having the story focused on a lead character who went into the Magic Swordsman style of magic (where those particular types of uses for magic are emphasized), combined with the genre in question. Uses for magic outside of buffs and direct-offense magic just aren't going to be the central part of the story, given how the series runs.

I agree, and I think the basis for my discontent with that is that that really wasn't how the series presented itself when it began. I enjoy martial-action series - I'm a big fan of DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, etc. - but that wasn't what Negima was when it started. It gradually morphed into that as it went on, and I liked it for what it was at the beginning.

Thank heavens the tits, at least, are still there. :snigger:

If, say, a side-story was written involving the full length of the events Nodoka went through as a treasure hunter or what Haruna did for the period of time between the Gateport Incident and their respective reunions with Negi, the particular focus of the story would be different, and other uses of magic would get more representation.

That'd certainly be better, at least at first. Remember, my problem with this aspect of the story isn't the overabundance of combat magic itself, per se; it's just that it's such a gross over-reliance on one sort of magic when (to me) magic is so inherently variable.

Switching to another type of magic would be a breath of fresh air, but if it made it nothing but that, it's not really solving what I see as a problem - it's just switching it out for a different iteration of the same problem.

I can understand your opinion, but I suppose I've just never seen it as a negative to the series.

That's perfectly valid; I know a lot of people don't agree with my opinion (like the last several posters in this thread), which is to be expected - it's just my opinion on the subject, after all.

I should probably also step back for a moment and reiterate that Negima as a whole isn't just about this issue to me. There are plenty of other aspects of it that I like, and others that I don't like. The issue of how magic works, and how the series focuses on certain types of magic over others, simply happens to be one of the latter aspects that's become central to the current discussion, is all.

On a partially-related note (being a thought regarding some of the things you don't care for), I keep wondering what a game that used a system like Magia Erebea as a major focus of the game system would end up being like, and what other kinds of forms could result from it.

I'd need to brush up on what the manga says about Magia Erebia (and if anyone wants to recap the various aspects of it, please jump in, but I'd request no spoilers for anything about it that happens after chapter 240, since that's as far as I am right now).

That said, from what I do recall, it seems like a limited-time boost to speed, strength, and magical power (or at least magical blasting). The time limit is enforced with the threat of using it too long damages you, if I recall correctly. I can't recall what the thematic (in-character) basis for how it works is, though.

EDIT - Thinking about it, maybe we'd have seen more of the alternate uses of magic if Negi had gone the standard Mage route?

There's no way of knowing, but I'd guess so. Man do I wish he'd done that now.

 

[zeebee1]

Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Ura Mamoru]

Nothing after Chapter 240? Okay, that means you haven't read the Rakan fight itself. Shame, we get a lot of demonstration of some of the high-end stuff Magia Erebea is capable of in that fight.


Magia Erebea works by infusing a spell into one's own soul, and by doing so, acquiring traits of the absorbed spell in question. Sticking with what's been demonstrated up to Chapter 240, conjoining a spell causes one to acquire attributes inherent to that spell. Negi has demonstrated with the 'Jupiter's Thunderstorm' and 'Flames of Gehenna' spells up to that point (I don't feel like looking for the Latin names, so I'm going with approximate translations).

Conjoining Jupiter's Thunderstorm creates a whirling barrier of wind that deflects incoming projectiles, and grants Negi enhanced speed, with what seems to be a minor loss in offense and a greater trade-off in defense (Wind and Lightning would be 'fast', but Wind isn't particularly 'strong', even if Lightning is. Further, neither have inherent 'defensive' traits).

Conjoining Flames of Gehenna increases Negi's defense and offense with a trade-off in speed (Darkness presumable provides the 'defense' and Fire gives 'offense'). In addition, due to Darkness representing 'absorption', it also results in Negi leeching mana on contact.

As I mentioned above, one of Darkness' aspects is 'absorption'. In darkness, all becomes as one, so Magia Erebea (Dark Magic) works by absorbing magic and making that magic one with oneself.


Negi shows Magia Erebea conjoined with another spell during the Rakan fight which demonstrates just how far acquiring the 'traits' of a spell can go, and also shows a couple other things that can be performed with it. Since you don't want to be spoiled though, I won't get into them.

 

[knight_of_ni]

Eh... I think I get what you are getting at, Alzirus. I kind of flinched whenever I heard characters telling Negi that he needed to be a bit of an idiot to be strong when Evangeline got beaten with a simple trick. I ultimately gave up when they went to the magic world, and dropped the series (I did read a bit of Rakan, and decided that dropping it was for the best, I despised the character).

Anyway, yeah, it would be more interesting, to me, (and reasonable from the simple fact that he is a ten year old mage facing off against people with much more experience than himself) for Negi to go along the route where he ends up using tricks such as flash-bangs, paralysis spells, and things like that to defeat enemy mages, rather than the current route. Hell, wasn't it said he had a collection of magic artifacts at the beginning of the series? Why don't we see those any more?

It is rather telling that my favorite fight between magi was one where one completely ignored standard spells and conventions, and instead just shot the wand he proclaimed he would use through his opponent's skull. That was probably one of the better parts of that book, and one of the better parts for that character. Ah well, what's done is done, it is doubtful I will see a manga where the protagonist actually ends up going that route, or if they do, it will end up being done poorly.

 

[zeebee1]

We don't see that because Negi is a genius and a powerhouse. He's a general when need be. He's not a weakling who needs to rely on tricks. This is shounen.

 

[knight_of_ni]

We don't see that because Negi is a genius and a powerhouse. He's a general when need be. He's not a weakling who needs to rely on tricks. This is shounen.

That's the problem. It's a shounen.

EDIT: him being a genius or a powerhouse doesn't count as an excuse, though. Besides, again, Eva got beaten with a simple trick/trap. Apparently she never learned, and no one else seems to take the lesson to heart.

 

[zeebee1]

People in love do stupid things.