Nasuverse Return of the King

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#1
Return of the King

By Zenithos

Chapter 1: Dark Alliance


Almost 2000 years have passed since the legendary days of King Arthur and his knights of the Round Table. Almost 2000 years have passed since his epic legend ended with the casting of his precious Excalibur into the lake, where it was said that it shall forevermore rest in the hands of the Lady of the Lake. Even now, 2000 years later, his legend echoes through the foothills surrounding the lake where his legend ended. Around the dining tables and fires the heroic deeds of him and his Knights were told and retold, passed down from generation to generation, from the day he was conceived as the son of Uther Pendragon, from the day he pulled out the sword of myths, Excalibur, from its rocky prison, to the day his battle cries boomed across Camlann.

But not all of his tales were of great heroic deeds, honour, and glory. There were darker tales, his death not withstanding, that were told after the children were sent to bed. Tales of treachery, deceit, regicide, and the fall of the ideals that built Camelot, all culminating in the fall of the great legend himself. But seldom told was the tale of the agreement between the illustrious King and the Lady of the Lakeà.even less seldom told was what became of it, and the blade Excalibur after it reached its watery graveà.

Until that nightà.

The 1st night marking the night the 5th Holy Grail War ended with the destruction of the unholy chalice, unleashing its tainted raw manna into worldà.

Midnight, Lake Ellesmere, England

The lakeÆs surface was still, a cool mirror reflecting the starlit heavens. The old fisherman was used to star gazing in its gleaming surface as he sat, waiting for his evening catch. The only occasional disturbance in the stillness was the occasional bob of his lure as the wary fish tapped it lightly with suspicion. The fisherman was used to that too. He had been night-fishing here at this sacred lake for many long years. He knew every ripple, every pattern, every contour it would form in reaction to its surroundings. He knew its fish. He knew the stars it reflected. And he was content that it was ever unchanging.

Well, almost ever unchangingà.

That night, the last night he ever visited the sacred pool, it was different. The ripples were different. They were wild, pulsating, without form or pattern. The heavens he saw reflected in them were unusual too. When he looked up, he gasped as he saw the heavens alight with a multi-coloured cascade of novas and auroras. The air shimmered and sparked. The fish leapt and shivered unnaturally.

There was an old, forgotten evil, stirring in the airà

He shivered as the old wives tales suddenly came back to him. The lady of the Lake! Or ratheràthe soul she had taken prisoner within the blade that had brought freedom and peace to Englandà.

It would come back somedayàand it would demand retributionà.

As the fisherman fled for his life, he dared not look back. Pity. For if he did, he wouldÆve witnessed a legend turning living nightmareà

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Emiya residence, Fuyuki City, Japan

There was nothing about the shimmering heavens that night that in any way suggested that anything was out of the ordinary. Indeed, for young mage-in-training Rin Tohsaka, ordinary was a luxury, especially after the ordeal she went through a year ago. The night it all ended, for the first time in months she finally felt she could get a proper nightÆs beauty sleep.

A succession of peaceful, blissful days and calm, restful nights filled out the bulk of the 1 year that followed. She thought that night, the night marking a year after the end of the war, would be no different. After successfully kicking out a fellow tenant (read: Freeloader) who shared the Emiya residence with her, a certain Ilyasviel Von Einzbern, from her room (sheÆs been wandering from room to room a lot lately, looking for company), she finally settled down in anticipation of a good nightÆs sleep.

She later found this was not to be the case, howeverà

She gasped as a sudden vision shocked her awake. The room was quiet, save the rather loud tick of the alarm clock by her bed. The dagger she had always kept under her pillow was now unsheathed and quivering, held out before her. She gulped as she slowly scanned her room. Nothing.

How could she have been so foolish. It was so simple, so obvious, only an idiot could have overlooked the fact. But noà.it didnÆt occur to anyone. One whole year passed without anyone ever doing anything about it. How could she have allowed this to happen? She banged the broadside of the dagger on her head as she shook her head in disbelief. Perhaps they were drunk with relief? Happy that war had ended? Grieved by the departure of their dear friends?

Well, whatever the reason, they had wasted an entire yearà

No time to waste. She quickly got out of bed, got dressed, and threw what little amenities she thought sheÆd need in a convenient traveling bag before turning off the lights. She sighed as she looked over her darkened room. The brief Happy Ending she had lived out here with her friends would end here. No, it wasnÆt an ending yet. It was nothing but an interlude. Realizing that, she steeled herself and slid open the door to her room.

There might still be timeàtime enough to preserve the Happy Endingà



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A gentle, warm breeze swept through the open verandah, causing a meticulously placed wind chime to tinkle quaintly to the rhythm of the cicadasÆ mournful cry. ôOneà twoà threeà.fouràö A young ruby-eyed girl counted under her breath, one hand under her snow-white hair, acting as a make-shift headrest, the other pointing up before her to the heavens. ôFiveà.sixà.ö

She sighed. It wasnÆt her fault that she got lonely at night. It was always comforting to wake up beside someone after a nightmareàsomething that was becoming an increasingly routine nightly experience for Ilya. The least that obnoxious girl could do was understand. But no, she even kicked her out.

Taiga-sensei was always an open and willing optionà.but Ilya could never handle the fierce brunetteÆs sleeping habits. She was sometimes worse than the nightmares. She had an open invitation to share SakuraÆs room too, but the young blue-haired high-schooler had a tendency to fuss over her. It reminded her of her dreary days getting æcared forÆ by her two maids in that stuffy old castle. Nope, anything but that.

Tohsaka Rin was an ideal choice, obviously. She couldnÆt care enough to fuss over anyone. She was a quiet sleeper too. Perfect. The only problem was that she had issues with sharing her room with others. And she always made sure her point got across. This policy had landed Ilya with many a sore bottom and brief flights down the corridor leading to RinÆs room.

Ilya sighed again. Shirou, the red-head owner of the residence, was always there for her. But if she crept into his room again Taiga-sensei would definitely raise hell at the breakfast table. As if she didnÆt trouble Shirou enoughà

ôIlya?ö A voice called out the girlÆs nickname. ôCounting stars again?ö

ôOniichan?ö The girl dropped her outstretched hand to her chest and looked up at the upside down face of the owner of the residence and her host, a red-head boy by the name of Shirou.

ôLet me guess, Rin kicked you out again, didnÆt she?ö Shirou smiled down at her.

ôUngggàö Ilya sighed, getting up into a sitting position.

ôWell, you could always sleep with Taiga-sensei or Sakura.ö Shirou suggested, patting her fondly on the head.

ôMmmmàö Ilya shook her head.

ôWell, a friend of mine just asked me to turn on the television.ö Shirou said. ôWhat say we shake up two cups of hot chocolate and watch a bit of TV?ö He offered, pointing in the direction of the living room.

ôUmm!ö Ilya nodded, suddenly excited. Any company was good company. And hot chocolate! It just couldnÆt get any better.

------------------------------


ôHuh? Rin, where are you going?ö Rin froze in her tracks upon hearing the voice. She slowly turned towards the source of the voice, Shirou, who was just about to turn on the living room television.

ôOh, uhà.sudden business.ö Rin said uneasily. Yeah right, what a lame excuse. But it was short notice after all, what was she to do?

ôReally?ö Shirou asked, a slight hint of doubt in his voice. Behind him the television came to life.

ôàand no official announcements from the government have been released as yet. The few government officials in the field still claim they have no information regarding the incidents.ö The field reporter on the news said in heavily-accented English. ôWe now have confirmed reports that the attacks are occurring simultaneously in several big cities in England, with most attacks concentrated in the westàö Behind him a fierce fire raged, consuming the city in a blazing inferno.

ôàwhat was that? The British isles going up in flames?ö Shirou asked, staring at the television screen in disbelief. ôIs this a movie of some sort?ö

ôWellà.that saves me the searchàö Rin sighed, sitting down at the table in front of the television and grabbing IlyaÆs cup of hot chocolate. She gulped it all down in one go, slammed down the cup, and gave out a big long sigh.

ôM-my hot chocolateàö IlyaÆs eyes watered.

ôSearch for what?ö Shirou asked the black-haired sorceress while offering Ilya his untouched cup of hot chocolate, which did wonders in calming her down.

ôWeàseem to have overlooked one minor thing after the end of the last waràö Rin cradled her head in her arms as she watched the news anchor point out the trouble spots across the British isles.

ôAnd that is?ö Shirou, slightly frustrated by RinÆs continuous half-statements, pressed on.

Rin looked up at Shirou, a dark look in her eyes. She sighed, grabbed ShirouÆs cup of hot chocolate which Ilya had been lovingly blowing to cool for the past few moments, and downed it in one gulp. She slammed the warm mug down, told the sniffling Ilya to shut up, and stared at Shirou. ôWe forgot about all the dark manna that accursed Grail had stored upàö She looked around at the television screen, now showing Big Ben crumbling and collapsing in a shower of dust over the House of Parliaments. Shirou could see the raging flames reflected in RinÆs darkened eyes. She looked back at Shirou. ôàAnd I guess now itÆs too late to do anything about itàö

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AuthorÆs note:

Ok, this is the first time ever I ventured out of the realm of Akamatsu Ken and I must say itÆs a completely different experience. Though I am a FSN fan, IÆm not exactly that a big fan such that IÆd memorize each and every technical aspect of how the Holy Grail Wars work. Therefore, IÆm going to have to ask all of you your help, please?

I think the idea itself seems quite obvious. However, if anything requires further explanations, just ask. Does the idea seem possible, in terms of FSN technicalities?

Also, I might have gotten a number of facts wrong, such as Lake Ellesmere. I'm not sure whether or not that was the name of the lake where the Lady of the Lake resided. If anyone's got any info on that, can you please tell me? Also, I've been looking for the excerpt about the casting of Excalibur into the lake. Anyone have any leads? Thanks.
 

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#2
This has nothing to do with this fic, but I felt I had to get it off my chest -

I leave this site for two days...just TWO days, and all sorts of things pop up while I'm gone. Aghh...I've got so much catching up to do, especially with the new Suzumiya Haruhi thread. AND SUPER ROBOT TAISEN!

*Cracks knuckles* ok....time to get to work....
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#3
Okay, as far as I know there is no Lady in the Lake. There are fairies though, and it was them who created and gave Excalibur and Avalon to Arturia. Here is what Fuyuki has to say on them:

ùdÉ© - Yousei
Multiple different types of these. Some possess abilities to remove memory or disrupt the processes behind memory and recall. Normally invisible to the eyes of people in the current world but those that have reached the magnitude of being able to be perceived (by humans) are what are called elementals (or maybe you could even say elves; well, in either case, existences that are on a magnitude way way way beyond human notion). Whether or not Kurokiri Satsuki actually met real fairies is unknown. Complete lack of human values. And of course, the creators of Avalon and Excalibur.

As for Arturia's soul being trapped in Excalibur, not possible as she didn't have it when she died (Beldivere gave it back to the lake and then returned in time to witness her death.) Avalon would have been a better choice, since Saber had it at the end of Fate and it would have went back with her soul. If the Yousei retrieved it, it isn't beyond the realm of good storytelling that Arturia's soul was taken with it (might be out of the realm of Type Moon's possibilities, but that can be forgiven in a good story.)

You would have to find a reason for Saber to be able to manifest, as the Fuyuki Grail War is the only possible way for eirei to manifest as themselves. Also, a reason why it took a year after the 5th War is necessary.

All in all, good start.
 

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#4
Hmm, I looked up the Lady in the Lake, and as far as British mythology goes, she exists. The idea is that rigth after FSN, Saber returns to her age without fulfilling her wish. As she dies, the Lady of the lake sealed away her soul within excalibur.

According to the original legend, The Lady of the Lake reclaimed excalibur and Arthur was taken to the mythical island Avalon from where he shall someday return to again save Britain. What I had in mind was that instead, Arthuria's soul was sealed away within Excalibur, to be released when the Britain would need her once again. The cruel irony is that once she was released, she reduced Britain to ashes.

As for how she was able to manifest herself -
After being sealed away within excalibur for such a long time, she yearned to escape using any means necessary. The opportunity finally presented itself when the Holy Grail was destroyed in the fifth war and all the corrupted manna was released as a result. She gathered all the said manna and used it to break her seal and manifest herself. In the process, the dark manna took advantage of her anger and pain at having been sealed away for centuries, thus corrupting her heart and soul.

I plan for her to use the extravagant amounts of manna to summon the other servants and perhaps a cast of new heroes, as well as to revive the Holy Grail to finally make her wish.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#5
Sorry, I'll be blunt, your idea is impossible within FSN.

Why? Well, even IF you're going by the Fate scenario (wherein Shirou convinces Saber to let things lie and she goes back and dies), her soul gets gobbled up by the Throne of Heroes. Any other scenario would have her simply in waiting to get her wish - wouldn't happen, but theoretically, it would either eventually happen and she gets placed in the Throne, or it would happen, and she'd become a Counter Guardian (and STILL get placed in the Throne). Either way, her soul isn't going anywhere besides the Throne. Thus, it literally cannot be within Excalibur (which, BTW, is NOT the sword she pulled from the stone, that's Caliburn).

And ttestagr, the Lady of the Lake does exist, she just happens to be a fairy.

The fairy princess Vivian became King Arthur's protector after she gave him the Excalibur.
You can think of it was "Ladies" of the Lake, but they're still there. Which is the reason why the sword was returned to the lake.

Still moot though.
 

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#6
Ok...somehow, I had a feeling it was either going to be F1, the Ecchi Sessha, or Ttestagr who shoots down the idea. :snigger:

Yeah, I realized I was most probably going to be breaking an entire rulebook's worth of FSN rules. Well, any idea on how to turn this idea around? Perhaps I could have Saber try to release herself from the Throne of Heroes using said corrupted manna. Possible?
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#7
That description isn't what happened in the nasuverse though FO, notice that it ends with Arthur being taken into Avalon and set to return. Basically its the popular legend, not what happened in the FSN. I may be wrong about the Lady in the Lake, but I can't think of anything in FSN that confirmed her existance.

And as I said, if you write a good enough fic, errors in continuity can be forgiven. Especially if you only break one, and don't go overboard.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#8
Things like Avalon existing as an island are part of the popular myth. Lady of the Lake exists though. Bedivere would have no reason to return the sword there otherwise.

EDIT: It should be noted, that it would probably be more correct to say "Ladies" of the Lake...

I can forgive errors in continuity, but only with a valid explanation. That may seem counterproductive, but whatever. Having Saber's soul be in the sword is akin to having Shinji's soul be within Unit 01 at the start of Eva... with him getting picked up by Misato. It's not supposed to be, so explain it.

As for fixing it, off the top of my head, I can't really think of anything. Maybe a copy of Saber's soul someone getting trapped doing some minor work from the Throne of Heroes? It would pretty damn Desu Ex Machina though... Honestly, no idea.
 

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#9
Ok....The Lady of the Lake CLAIMS Arthuria's soul from the Throne of Heroes. That's one option.

Or Saber frees herself from the Throne of Heroes using the corrupted manna. That's another option.

I'm still trying to crank out more ideas....as I said, it's the first time I ventured out of the Love Hina/Negima universe and I've never been bound by so many rules before.

...Another Christmas nut to crack :snigger:
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#10
Would what I suggested with Avalon work? Its presence at the end of Fate was unaccounted for. It definately didn't stay with Shirou, and Arturia didn't get it back when she woke up in her body. Wouldn't it have stayed in her soul? And would it work with souls, if so it could have kept her soul around for the faries to take along with Avalon.

Edit: And FO, don't crack down of FSN fics so hard with terms like impossible. There are so few of them, it just feels wrong to discourage a story that has at the very least decent writing.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#11
Or Saber frees herself from the Throne of Heroes using the corrupted manna. That's another option.
Sorry forgot to comment on this.



No. I even find the concept laughable.

Ha.

I don't have much specifics on the Throne, but there have been QUITE a few heroes placed in it, not all of them good. That Saber would somehow be able to 'get out' of the Throne after who knows how many others, when she's not even THAT strong, all things considered, is very, very unlikely.

I also find the other idea unlikely, personally, but that's only through simply 'meh, the idea sounds bad'-ness.

I've also no comment on Avalon, simply because I do not know the specifics on what happened to it, and would not want to guess. Although, I WILL say it sounds plausible.

EDIT:

And FO, don't crack down of FSN fics so hard with terms like impossible. There are so few of them, it just feels wrong to discourage a story that has at the very least decent writing.
*sigh* No matter how many (or little) there are, I will not do more or less then with anything else. I will do exactly the same as I would in any fandom I like. Why? Because, I want the same quality with everything. Accepting less as more is insulting.

That is the reason why there is almost no real good Negima fiction on FF.net.
 

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#12
Ok, I'll look up Avalon. That was the name of the sheath right? It does sound like an idea. Thanks.
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#13
Point taken. I'm not as strict about continuity as you are though, and am willing to read and like stories that bend or even break continuity if it is written well and enjoyable.

On another note, there is another reason why the tainted mana is a horrible idea. At the end of Fate and the anime, Saber was content to return to her time and die, and Shirou was content to let her. She wouldn't try to free herself, much less use something evil to do so. To have her survive, or show up again, it would have to be the result of something completely unplanned. Even her being summoned in a later Grail War would only summon a copy from the Throne of Heroes in the Fate and anime scenarios. Which would just be painful for Shirou, and more painful to watch if he uses her as a substitute.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#14
Ok, I'll look up Avalon. That was the name of the sheath right? It does sound like an idea. Thanks.
...Actually, WAIT, let me rearrange my thoughts, I must be as sleepy as I feel.

Avalon still doesn't solve the problem of Saber's soul getting thrown into the Throne. Nice as it works with the overlaying problem with your story, it doesn't solve the underlining one.

EDIT:

Point taken. I'm not as strict about continuity as you are though, and am willing to read and like stories that bend or even break continuity if it is written well and enjoyable.
As I said, I'm fine with bending and breaking continuity. What I am NOT fine with is ignoring it completely. So long as the bending/breaking is explained it's all gravy. If not, it's sloppy and needs to be killed with fire.

Want an example of bending and breaking this? Okay. Let's say that an overpowered entity we'll just call "Mod" suddenly decided to DESTROY the throne of heroes, and probably destroying a good deal of time/space, but everything goes fine with Saber's transition here. Thus, the idea works, because there is no throne for Saber's soul to get taken to.

Hey, I never said it was a GOOD example, but it would give a (semi) valid explanation instead of just saying 'it happened like this'.
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#15
I thought that the actual soul wasn't stored in the throne, but a copy of it. Wouldn't her soul return to Akasha unless something else stopped it. I don't think it would be so much of a stretch to have Avalon do that, considering its ability to grant immortality.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#16
No, actually, I'm almost 100% certain that the REAL soul is stored in the Throne (and then copied from there to what the Throne needs done with it). There was a specific statement made on that. I'd need to check over Fuyuki to find it to be completely sure though.
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#17
If that is true, couldn't Avalon keep a soul from going to the Throne as well? If of course, a soul is affected by the immortality that it offers.
 

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#18
At the end of Fate and the anime, Saber was content to return to her time and die, and Shirou was content to let her. She wouldn't try to free herself, much less use something evil to do so. To have her survive, or show up again, it would have to be the result of something completely unplanned. Even her being summoned in a later Grail War would only summon a copy from the Throne of Heroes in the Fate and anime scenarios. Which would just be painful for Shirou, and more painful to watch if he uses her as a substitute.
Saber was cooped up in a sunken blade for centuries. That, I believe, is reason enough for her to try and find a way out, even if it's just to find peace. In an effort to do so, she tried to absorb as much manna as possible over the centuries. Then she unknowingly absorbs the dark manna from the destroyed grail. The dark manna 'amplifies' her anger and bitterness over being betrayed by her country and getting sealed away for centuries, thus causing her to turn into Black Saber (oops, I forgot to add that it was Black Saber I wanted to use here)

But now I'm still stuck with getting over the Throne of Heroes problem. No, I definitely won't stoop as low as making use of a Deus Machina or anything like that. I'll think up something. I think more coffee's in order....
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#19
Been looking through Fuyuki, this is something I wince at.

Throne of Heroes - Exists outside of time and space. The place where souls that have been removed from the cycle of transmigration "reside" (more like stored). A deeper part of the astral plane? Once you become a hero, this is where you stay. Forever. Not going to be freed. Ever.
Pretty sure that's NOT the statement I remember, but it suits the purpose. If you're not going to be freed, ever, then it would have to be the original soul, as a copy would just be left and 'you' would move on to Akasha.
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#20
Fatuous One said:
Been looking through Fuyuki, this is something I wince at.

Throne of Heroes - Exists outside of time and space. The place where souls that have been removed from the cycle of transmigration "reside" (more like stored). A deeper part of the astral plane? Once you become a hero, this is where you stay. Forever. Not going to be freed. Ever.
Pretty sure that's NOT the statement I remember, but it suits the purpose. If you're not going to be freed, ever, then it would have to be the original soul, as a copy would just be left and 'you' would move on to Akasha.
Gotcha. Basically the only way that this idea can be used without ignoring continuity is to find a way to keep Arturia from going to the Throne. I've taxed the limits of my creativity on the topic for this morning, but other options might be possible.

I'm going to bed, things are starting to meld together.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#21
Yup, that's about it. Find a way to keep Saber from being sent to the Throne in the first place, or else she's there for good.

Unfortunately, she did show up as a Servant, so she's definintely been in the Throne. Otherwise, she wouldn't have shown up in the first place.

Then again, you could say that she's been resigned to her fate as a Counter Guardian, but that she was stuck with a destiny to be the one called on in "Britain's greatest time of need". Consider also that Counter Guardians tend to be of the human-killing variety... and that the Mages' Association is headquartered in London...
Suddenly, a little bit of this ficlet becomes more plausible. Perhaps Alaya called Saber up in her Cold-hearted King self, for some reason?

Nitpick: It was Caliburn, not Excalibur, that Arthur (Arturia, in F/SN continuity) pulled from the Stone. It was broken before s/he received Excalibur, though.
 
#22
Fatuous One said:
Ok, I'll look up Avalon. That was the name of the sheath right? It does sound like an idea. Thanks.
...Actually, WAIT, let me rearrange my thoughts, I must be as sleepy as I feel.

Avalon still doesn't solve the problem of Saber's soul getting thrown into the Throne. Nice as it works with the overlaying problem with your story, it doesn't solve the underlining one.
One way I would suggest sloving this problem would be for Saber NOT to die. Therefore, her soul would not go to the ToH. People don't have to die to change. A few centuries without Shirou "could" change Saber, but I doubt it. Avalon presense wasn't explained and it never said that Saber died. It leaves that open somewhat. To be more precise, it doesn't show her die. So to save Saber from the ToH, you would have to something happen to Saber at this point or do something to the ToH.

toraneko said:
Unfortunately, she did show up as a Servant, so she's definintely been in the Throne. Otherwise, she wouldn't have shown up in the first place.
Incorrect. Saber was an exception in this respect. She was a Servant when she was still alive and never went to the ToH.

Zenithos said:
Saber was cooped up in a sunken blade for centuries. That, I believe, is reason enough for her to try and find a way out, even if it's just to find peace. In an effort to do so, she tried to absorb as much manna as possible over the centuries. Then she unknowingly absorbs the dark manna from the destroyed grail. The dark manna 'amplifies' her anger and bitterness over being betrayed by her country and getting sealed away for centuries, thus causing her to turn into Black Saber (oops, I forgot to add that it was Black Saber I wanted to use here)

But now I'm still stuck with getting over the Throne of Heroes problem. No, I definitely won't stoop as low as making use of a Deus Machina or anything like that. I'll think up something. I think more coffee's in order....
One problem. The Holy grail war didn't start until around 1800-ish. Therefore, even if you went with her soul getting sealed in something. You would need to use something else to "corrupt" her. Also, add to the fact the Grail was in Japan and she was in England......

Fatuous One said:
No, actually, I'm almost 100% certain that the REAL soul is stored in the Throne (and then copied from there to what the Throne needs done with it). There was a specific statement made on that. I'd need to check over Fuyuki to find it to be completely sure though.
That is correct. The ToH stores the real soul and creates "copies" to go out and do what's needed.


I'm not flaming or anything like that. Just pointing out a few problems that need to be worked around. I've had more than a few of my own ideas "shot down" because of little details like such. (of course, I suck so I couldn't figure out ways to work around them :p ) I'm sure you will be able to work around these few details. Good luck with the story.

Until I appear again...

~The Ecchi Sessha
 

AbyssalDaemon

Well-Known Member
#23
toraneko said:
Yup, that's about it. Find a way to keep Saber from being sent to the Throne in the first place, or else she's there for good.

Unfortunately, she did show up as a Servant, so she's definintely been in the Throne. Otherwise, she wouldn't have shown up in the first place.
True but was because she made a contract with the world, she hadn't yet died

Zenithos

One way your idea could work is if you had it that Saber didnÆt die as Bedivere thought but instead fell into a death-like coma. She'd still would have died an hour or two later had Vivian not appeared and taken her body off to get somebody to heal her (starting legends about Arthur being in Avalon and her return) only to screw up the spell she'd used to put Saber's body into stasis, making it so that instead being out of sleep until Vivian found somebody to heal her, Saber is fully aware of her surroundings just unable to move or make any sound with only her thoughts for company for the next millennia, while something happens to Vivian that keeps her from coming back and getting Saber healed.

Skip to the fourth Grailwar where Saber having been one two surviving servants of his able to drain part of the mana released by the destruction of the tainted grail, partly frees herself and fifth where she finally manages to fully free herself.
 

Zenithos

Well-Known Member
#24
Ok, Caliburn/excalibur mix-up, check.

I like your ideas, Abyssal Demon and Toraneko.

But I just thought of something else - since Arthuria is under an oath to return to Britain when Britain needs her most, a special arrangement was made so that she could be summoned through Excalibur from the throne of heroes. Therefore, the excalibur sort of links her to the outside world. In order to escape to finally find peace, Arthuria uses that link with excalibur to absorb manna from the outside world.

Then she unknowingly absorbs the dark manna which corrupts her and turns her into black saber. And so the story begins.

One problem. The Holy grail war didn't start until around 1800-ish. Therefore, even if you went with her soul getting sealed in something. You would need to use something else to "corrupt" her. Also, add to the fact the Grail was in Japan and she was in England......
the story takes place a year after the fifth holy grail war, so the 'dark manna corrupting Saber' thing could still work. As for the grail being in Japan and her being in England, I don't think that's an issue. We're talking about manna here, particularly manna fallout from a particularly powerful manna explosion. I think it's still believable that Saber in England could absorb the manna from the explosion in Japan.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#25
But I just thought of something else - since Arthuria is under an oath to return to Britain when Britain needs her most, a special arrangement was made so that she could be summoned through Excalibur from the throne of heroes. Therefore, the excalibur sort of links her to the outside world. In order to escape to finally find peace, Arthuria uses that link with excalibur to absorb manna from the outside world.
You're playing on it as if that oath is binding, after death. That makes the believability go down a lot, in my opinion. I'm also doubtful that Excalibur can be used in the way of absorbing prana, as it implies that it can be used as a battery, which is... unlikely.

As for the grail being in Japan and her being in England, I don't think that's an issue. We're talking about manna here, particularly manna fallout from a particularly powerful manna explosion. I think it's still believable that Saber in England could absorb the manna from the explosion in Japan.
One other problem: why is this Grail getting destroyed any different from the third OR fourth grail? At the time of their destruction, both of them were tainted in the same way as fifth. The fourth grail even got destroyed by the SAME person (if you're going by Fate scenario). Why is this suddenly starting now?

Also, while you're basically saying "It's magic, it doesn't have to follow conventional laws", magic still has rules to it. It has limits, and RANGE is one of them. A shockwave isn't going to extend infinitely, as you seem to be implying. If a focused blast from Ea isn't going to continue on towards England, why would grail going ka-boom do so either?

That, of course, is simply my opinion though.
 
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