Nasuverse Sakura Venting

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Cherry_lover

Well-Known Member
#151
#151
Archanon said:
Because, you know, we might like characters other than Sakura, most of whom don't get happy endings in HF?
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Who?

Ilya doesn't, true (but then she's actually worse off in UBW), and Saber doesn't. The rest of the main cast either get good endings in HF or get equally bad endings in all routes. Rin is happy, Shirou is happy, Sakura is happy and Rider is happy. That's the same number of happy (good) characters as in any other route, if not more.

Also, would you feel that way about Saber if HF were the only route...? I suspect not, somehow, due to her lack of character development.

I'll point out you even acknowledged that HF doesn't end well for everyone, albeit only in the context of "Well Saber had two routes with good endings, it's fine if she gets screwed over in this one because Sakura got screwed over in the other two." So yeah.
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Yeah, but it's no worse than the other two routes are in that respect, and in any case surely the fact that HF is the only route wouldn't make the fact that those characters get screwed over any more depressing.

ttestagr said:
Mike, your bias is showing again. As is your ignorance of anything not purely Sakura. Your soul doesn't get recycled if you qualify as a heroic spirit. Which Arturia does. She can't go to the Throne normally either. So she'll go fight again somewhere else until she wins a Grail or gives up, which would mean she'd be stuck in Avalon with nothing but rage since Shirou doesn't even want to follow her there that route.
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Erm, when did I claim that Saber's soul would get recycled? I said she would go to Avalon in Fate and (most likely) UBW. In HF, it's less clear, because she may get rejected due to being "corrupted", or she may win the Grail and turn into a CG. We don't know. But, either way, I don't think she's any worse off than Sakura, because at least she gets to have some kind of life.
 
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ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#152
#152
Cherry_lover said:
Erm, when did I claim that Saber's soul would get recycled? I said she would go to Avalon in Fate and (most likely) UBW. In HF, it's less clear, because she may get rejected due to being "corrupted", or she may win the Grail and turn into a CG. We don't know. But, either way, I don't think she's any worse off than Sakura, because at least she gets to have some kind of life.
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Cherry_lover said:
ttestagr said:
So someone having their immortal soul forcibly changed into a tortrured, evil, rage filled slave for all eternity isn't as bad as being killed.á Isn't character bias grand?
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If you die, then your soul just gets wiped and recycled anyway, so honestly I don't see how Saber's situation is worse, even if that is the case (which is highly debateable). Further, in the other two routes she gets eternal life in Avalon whilst Sakura gets (potentially) tortured to death and then wiped from existence, without even having the dignity of being remembered. So, I'd say Saber gets much better treatment than Sakura does, personally....
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What the fuck Mike? You're not even bothering to edit your god damn posts before you start screaming that you didn't make them.

This is idiotic even by your standards. Which makes it very painful to read. Now go fuck off douche.
 
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Elf

Well-Known Member
#153
#153
Archanon said:
Because, you know, we might like characters other than Sakura, most of whom don't get happy endings in HF?
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This.

You know what? My favorite character never gets a good end and neither does my third favorite.

The closest that Archer gets is coming to terms with himself in UBW True. Then it goes on with "Answer" all but stating that the chance of Archer seeing that record again was almost as severe as him creating a paradox. So his coming to terms with himself and finding peace with his idea, his role in the afterlife, and his promise for Rin is basically null and void.

He just goes back being Humanity's Cleaner and mass murder.

Then there's poor Lancer who's Kotomine's bitch for the lols. Well, he gets more screen time in FHA but that's beyond the point.

However I don't go trouncing about stating in every thread how Archer needs to be saved or etc. Hey, at least Sakura has a chance to be saved. Even if Archer's kept as a familiar or what not, there's still going to be a CG EMIYA. Unless he becomes a true Epic Hero and that overrides the contract.

Sakura can be saved. Hell, we don't know after UBW and Fate routes that she's not. She's close to Ilya in the end of Fate, so Ilya might be working on something there. Not to mention in UBW, knowing Rin, she's going to let it slip that Sakura's her sister.

Yes, Sakura's suffered, but . . . It was so heavy handed that I got desensitized to it in HF. I've read better fanfics handling Sakura's situation that made me feel more sorry for her than playing the fucking VN. Not to mention Fate/Zero and it's nightmare fuel.
 
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Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#154
#154
Inb4 "But Sakura's suffered so much and she deserves a better fate because she farts rainbows."
 
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Cherry_lover

Well-Known Member
#155
#155
ttestagr said:
What the fuck Mike? You're not even bothering to edit your god damn posts before you start screaming that you didn't make them.

This is idiotic even by your standards. Which makes it very painful to read. Now go fuck off douche.
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I didn't edit the post because I am not trying to "trick" people, whatever you might think. You're simply mis-interpreting what I meant (although with good reason, I will admit).

I was responding to your comment, which talked about Sakura dying, not Saber. I simply meant that, since Sakura will just get erased after having no chance in life, she's worse off than Saber is, even if she remains corrupted. But, that's just personal opinion, of course.
 
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shioran toushin

Well-Known Member
#156
#156
ok so now a short full of misery life and ereasure from it is worse than eternal damnation? WTF
but thats just my personal opinion whis all of us are entitled until they try to bruteforce it trough ou throats, then expect very pissed respones.
 
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He-who-voted-for-Kodos

Well-Known Member
#157
#157
I have to agree. Getting a short, shitty life, then getting it all erased after dying, that happens to a lot of people. Really shitty stuff happens to people all the time, so Sakura's suffering, while bad, isn't that special, except where it had the potential to bring the manifestation of all human evil into existence. But existing forever, as a twisted, rage-filled version of who you once were and knowing that's how it was? I put that at least a step or two above the life of suffering followed by erasure, even without considering the fact that Saber didn't have much of a real life on her own.
 
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ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#158
#158
After all, we have explicit proof that Sakura would just be reincarnated as we know thanks to Archer that there is a specific technique used to get information from you past incarnation. Sakura's soul would get to try again with a clean slate.
 
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Cherry_lover

Well-Known Member
#159
#159
ttestagr said:
After all, we have explicit proof that Sakura would just be reincarnated as we know thanks to Archer that there is a specific technique used to get information from you past incarnation. Sakura's soul would get to try again with a clean slate.
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Personally I don't call getting your soul wiped clean and having some totally new person written over the top "re-incarnation", at least not in any meaningful sense, but that's just me....
 
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Raven

Well-Known Member
#160
#160
I know you are trying to make a point about how 'reincarnation' is not the right term for the process, but that was pretty painful....
 
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trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#161
#161
So, the textbook definition of reincarnation is wrong, because Mike doesn't like it.

Somebody better make sure that the Buddhists and Sikhs get that memo.
 
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Raven

Well-Known Member
#162
#162
He is essentially saying that the term 'reincarnation', which, according to dictionary.com, has been in use for over 150 years, is not correct, because the person who would be born after Sakura wouldn't have her memories, likes, or most of her personality, so it wouldn't be re-anything. However, he fails to realize that incarnate refers to Sakura's 'soul' assuming a physical form, ie a human body, and that reincarnation refers only to her 'soul' assuming a new physical form. It says nothing about having memories of her previous lives, which, in Sakura's case, I would assume to be a blessing.

However, correct me if I am wrong, but even the idea that nothing of Sakura would remain is wrong, as her origin would remain.
 
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ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#163
#163
The memories remain in the soul even after it is recycled. Seriously, the mechanic that allowed Shirou to gain knowledge from Archer is used in verse to unlock previous incarnations memories. So they are there, just not easy to access.
 
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Raven

Well-Known Member
#164
#164
I was a bit unclear, but I meant that the new incarnation wouldn't have ready access to those memories. Like you said, they remain in the soul, but when I say that New!Sakura wouldn't have Sakura's memories, I mean that there is no continuation of consciousness. Sorry about the confusion.
 
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Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#166
#166
trevelyan1983 said:
So, the textbook definition of reincarnation is wrong, because Mike doesn't like it.

Somebody better make sure that the Buddhists and Sikhs get that memo.
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I'm Sikh, and I've never heard of reincarnation being an important point in the religion. You're thinking of Hinduism.
 
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Cherry_lover

Well-Known Member
#167
#167
trevelyan1983 said:
So, the textbook definition of reincarnation is wrong, because Mike doesn't like it.

Somebody better make sure that the Buddhists and Sikhs get that memo.
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I'm pretty sure, though, that what happens in the Nasuverse is not supposed to be normal Buddhist reincarnation, although Nasu seems to have retconned that at least a little bit.
 
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trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#168
#168
Lord of Bones said:
I'm Sikh, and I've never heard of reincarnation being an important point in the religion. You're thinking of Hinduism.
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You're right, I was thinking of Hinduism. My apologies.
 
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