Naruto Sasuke Doesn't Leave Konoha

[Knyght]

Same idea that was put up in my other thread: Sasuke make it to the correct room the first time around and literally drag Naruto out of the hotel. Naturally, Itachi and Kisame hunt them down but this buys time for Jiraiya to arrive before anyone gets hurt.

Problem solved. Solved-ish anyway, since Orochimaru isn't gonna stop trying to get him.

 

[ttestagr]

You know, there is another point where Sasuke's defection could have been stopped. When the Sound 4 approached and fought him.

What if Sasuke beats the shit out of them? What he's done recently has overshadowed it a lot, but really the kid was amazingly good for his age back then. With how the other genin fared against them later, his loss was more by act of plot than any skill of theirs' or flaw of his. Not that him winning is likely, but it definitely shouldn't have been as easy as what happened. The fact that they have to take him alive is a pretty big handicap against a guy with an A-rank assassination attack, high speed, and visual precog.

 

[mortalone]

Jirobu and Kidoumaru nearly killed Chouji and Neji. Shikamaru and Kiba would not have survived without Temari and Kankuro. And somehow Sasuke is supposed to defeat all four by himself? I agree that he could have put up more of a fight, but no matter what he would have lost. Badly. He's good, but not *that* good. All four at once would be a tough fight even for Kakashi.

 

[Knyght]

Best you could hope for is that he manages to keep going for longer and the fight manages to draw attention. Assuming the S4 hadn't set up a barrier to keep it all hidden.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

Yes, their speech of "he gave us power, without the power he can give you you suck" loses much of the appeal when you are level-headed enough to realize they are fours against one (even five actually) and all using the cursed seal.

 

[goldenarms]

No-one's saying it's the correct moment. It's just a possibility. It's a potential divergence point where the girl who is probably Sasuke's second most important person by that time convinces him to stay with a proper argument instead of just begging.

Though I don't see why people are so hung up on this one since it's probably one of the least interesting divergences for keeping Sasuke around. It's something I'd expect to see in Sakura/Sasuke romance rather than anything, y'know, interesting.

She doesn't have to convince him to stay, just give him reason to doubt leaving in the first place. While her heart's in the right place, her motivations for trying to talk Sasuke off the ledge, so to speak, are completely selfish and self-serving. Instead, if she was looking at things from his viewpoint and compiled reasons based on that, she would have loads more success getting him to stop and think and doubt just enough to not leave right then. Once he's decided not to leave the village, then she could work on his heart to convince him that staying is more beneficial than forsaking.

Of course, what I found to be silly is that Sasuke thought somehow he could self-train and stuff and stood a realistic chance of beating Itachi, then finds that his brother had just beat the utter crap out of Kakashi, whom Sasuke can't beat. Seriously, he never once stopped to think, "If Kakashi-sensei got taken out so easily..." Even sillier, Jiraiya didn't bitchslap Sasuke down like the petulant child he was behaving as for his own safety -- "Kid, you might have guts, but you certainly can't hope to compare to him right now. All you'll be doing here is throwing your life away, and Itachi won't even be bruised by you. Is that what you want to do? Is that going to satiate your desire for revenge? To die like a maggot to someone that can't even take you serious enough to use a tenth of his strength?" And if Sasuke continued to try and fight, just KO him, deal with the situation, and then send him home with Guy.

One of the key points to Sasuke's abandonment of Konoha is that he was constantly pressed by his self-perceived weaknesses and failures. He was humiliated and KO'd for a month, awakens to find that Naruto has seemingly surpassed him in power, then loses against the Sound Four, who then offer him a way out of his funk and get real power. With time to chew on either of the first two points and/or an interrupt on the third, there's little chance Sasuke would have considered the Sound Four's offer. That in mind, three divergent points:

1) Jiraiya interrupts Sasuke and Itachi's "fight," and Sasuke goes back to Konoha with Guy.

2) Kakashi, worried about the path his charge is taking, gets someone still in the village to keep an eye on Sasuke.

3) Sakura does some research and uses a different tactic to appeal to his sense of ego and points out just how strong Itachi and Orochimaru became while in the village.

 

[ttestagr]

Jirobu and Kidoumaru nearly killed Chouji and Neji. Shikamaru and Kiba would not have survived without Temari and Kankuro. And somehow Sasuke is supposed to defeat all four by himself? I agree that he could have put up more of a fight, but no matter what he would have lost. Badly. He's good, but not *that* good. All four at once would be a tough fight even for Kakashi.

No. Full jounin can easily handle them. Its outright stated that base Kimimaro stomps all of them at once no matter what.

Naruto is at the level that he can come close to a stalemate with someone at that level if he's underestimated (as we saw when he nailed Kabuto with the Rasengan.) If you accept that Sasuke is Naruto's peer in ability, the same can be said about him.

Depending on the composition of where they end up, if he gets them all in view and uses Chidori he could very simply kill all of them at once without them being able to do anything about it (as we see with Kakashi's first use of chidori taking out over 20 kage bunshin of a jounin before he saw through its weakness.) And with the Sharingan, Sasuke doesn't have that weakness.

Its a massive longshot, but well within the realm of possibility. And Sasuke with the where his mind was at wouldn't hold back on trying to kill people.

 

[Shirotsume]

Hmm... I think the key here may not be so much "Sasuke taking them out" for that particular idea, but more "Sasuke abusing their weaknesses to take one or two out and weaken/tire them."

Part of the main problem with the retrieval mission is that everyone on Konoha tried to go toe to toe against them by trying to beat the sound four at their own games, and it nearly got them killed.

But what if the sound four were tired, and pissed they were carrying someone who, say, took out Jirobu?

Come to think of it... who would it make the most sense to say Sasuke could take out in a sneak attack, and who would make the most difference?

I feel like Jiroubu could be taken out the easiest (No offense to Chouji) since Sasuke would have the best match against him thanks to his speed, but taking out Kidomaru would help the most (freeing up Neji, who was a skilled motherfucker) but who would be the hardest to land a cheap shot on (stood up against a Byakugan.)

 

[ankokudaishogun]

What if Sasuke beats the shit out of them?

he was doing that. then they showed him their cursed seals.


want keep Sasuke from defecting? change ANYthing.



let's start with "Ninja genius Kakashi actually notice the Sound 4 being like 50 meters from him, not even trying to hide"

 

[mortalone]

There seems to be a lot of fanon here. Sound Four would lose to any full jounin?

<a href='http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction_Forum/index.php?showtopic=21951&view=findpost&p=22075323' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction...post&p=22075323</a>

They beat two jounin at the same time without getting hurt. Even if they are "only" Special Jounin, Genma and Raidou we now know were part of the Fourth Hokage's personal guard.

They also provided cover so that Orochimaru could escape after losing his arms to Sarutobi.

Nowhere is it explicitly stated that they had no chance against Kimmimaro. They attacked him with taijutsu, were knocked down, then submitted. No guarantee the result would be the same if they put their lives on the line. Except for Jirobou they each have powerful techniques that are potentially game changing, e.g.
<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v23/c206/19.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v23/c206/19.html</a>

And on top of that, this guy was absurdly strong. His body is already breaking down at the time he enters the fight against Naruto:
<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v23/c201/5.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v23/c201/5.html</a>

Kabuto explicitly says that Sasuke "should be no match for them."
<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v20/c177/13.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v20/c177/13.html</a>

And while Kabuto did look like an idiot underestimating Naruto to damn near suicidal levels, calling that battle a "draw" is bullshit. Without Tsunade, Naruto would have died, while Kabuto was merely injured and still conscious.

And in the battle with Sasuke, the Sound Four did not bust out their cursed seals until Sasuke did. Start here:
<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v20/c178/18.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v20/c178/18.html</a>

They were very clearly playing around with him. If Sasuke had suddenly killed one, there is no reason to doubt that they would have gotten very serious very fast. One on one I'd bet on Sasuke over any of them, but four on one he had not a fucking chance in hell without serious plot fuckery.

 

[zeebee1]

Why convince Sasuke to stay. Just have Jiraiya do something useful. He could just take the time to activate sage mode from a safe location and then reverse summon himself inside the barrier. If Orochiaru is dead then there's no one to recruit Sasuke.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Why convince Sasuke to stay. Just have Jiraiya do something useful. He could just take the time to activate sage mode from a safe location and then reverse summon himself inside the barrier. If Orochiaru is dead then there's no one to recruit Sasuke.

Wait, what? How would he get a toad inside the barrier? Was Fukasaku hiding in Hiruzen's robes or something?

 

[goldenarms]

There seems to be a lot of fanon here. Sound Four would lose to any full jounin?

<a href='http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction_Forum/index.php?showtopic=21951&view=findpost&p=22075323' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction...post&p=22075323</a>

They beat two jounin at the same time without getting hurt. Even if they are "only" Special Jounin, Genma and Raidou we now know were part of the Fourth Hokage's personal guard.

To note, the Sound Four instantly went CS Stage 2 upon clashing with Genma and Raido, and both of them had already exhausted their chakra on the mission they just completed when they discovered Orochimaru's elite. And to top things off, Sound Four couldn't kill Genma or Raido, even in CS2 form. They were pretty damn injured, but they still lived.

Yeah, I'd say they wouldn't stand a chance against a regular jonin already gassed up.

Nowhere is it explicitly stated that they had no chance against Kimmimaro. They attacked him with taijutsu, were knocked down, then submitted. No guarantee the result would be the same if they put their lives on the line. Except for Jirobou they each have powerful techniques that are potentially game changing, e.g.
<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v23/c206/19.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v23/c206/19.html</a>

IIRC, Kabuto did explicitly say Kimimaro beat the Sound Four by himself -- they used to be Sound Five, till his disease.

And to be frank, Kimimaro could kill them all with no trouble. Even though he was already on the verge of death, he murderkilled 999 Narutos in one standing without even looking winded. Literally killed each one with lethal force using his Dances and without using the Cursed Seal. Add in the fact that they were all Fox-enhanced, and that alone would tell you Sound Four wouldn't be able to do jack against Kimimaro, especially since his Curse Seal is implied to be better than theirs. And the things he has done while in CS2 makes their techniques look like a fart in the wind.

Other things to consider -- Tayuya was left shaken when Kimimaro pointedly told her he wasn't going to kill her only because he was going to be too busy doing their job andd she had to keep them there. Given how Tayuya acted beforehand with her other teammates, that was no idle threat Kimimaro gave her. In her body language, Kimimaro does, indeed, have the power to kill them whenever he feels like it, and she had no way of stopping him from doing so.

In a nut, Kimimaro is far too much for the average ninja to handle. And that was when he had one foot in the grave and the other on a case of banana peels. At 100% health, it might have to befall someone of Itachi's caliber to defeat him.

 

[Knyght]

To note, the Sound Four instantly went CS Stage 2 upon clashing with Genma and Raido, and both of them had already exhausted their chakra on the mission they just completed when they discovered Orochimaru's elite. And to top things off, Sound Four couldn't kill Genma or Raido, even in CS2 form. They were pretty damn injured, but they still lived.

Yeah, I'd say they wouldn't stand a chance against a regular jonin already gassed up.

Tbf, they were on a time limit and went CS2 to take them out as fast as possible. They weren't dead but they couldn't pursue and that was more than enough so they didn't bother stick around.

Bearing in mind I haven't gone back to see the scene in question. Were the S4 even injured from the fight?

 

[raedric]

Bee is assassinated (SOMEHOW, at some point) by a root agent, Danzo finds a way to talk Hiruzen into making Sasuke the jinchuriki. Instant power up, more potent than a curse seal, and gives him a more solid connection to Naruto.

Yes I'm sure it's incredibly unlikely, but I'm tired.

 

[Shirotsume]

First thought- Fuck no, Bee is like 300% more awesome than Sasuke is, and deserves it a hell of a lot more.

Second thought- Gyuuki would not play nice with Sasuke. At all. In any way. We're talking Shukaku levels of fuck you from Gyuuki.

Third thought- could be pulled off, but probably not ever well, and sure as hell not with Sauske becoming a jinchuuriki under the circumstances you just described. For one, who would sacrfice themselves for that? Danzou seems a bit too pragmatic to just sac his root for something not even under is control.

Danzou would stick Gyuuki in a root, if nothing else... assuming he even had any root that COULD kill Bee.

And have the prerequisite sealing ability. It's not like there's a Shiki Fuuin For Dummies laying around.

 

[Dunstan]

Bee is assassinated (SOMEHOW, at some point) by a root agent, Danzo finds a way to talk Hiruzen into making Sasuke the jinchuriki. Instant power up, more potent than a curse seal, and gives him a more solid connection to Naruto.

Yes I'm sure it's incredibly unlikely, but I'm tired.

I'd use one of the other beast, one so you don't have to kill Bee, and two as Gyuuki himself says that he's not the next strongest under Kurama. :huh.:

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Bee is assassinated (SOMEHOW, at some point) by a root agent, Danzo finds a way to talk Hiruzen into making Sasuke the jinchuriki. Instant power up, more potent than a curse seal, and gives him a more solid connection to Naruto.

Yes I'm sure it's incredibly unlikely, but I'm tired.

I'd use one of the other beast, one so you don't have to kill Bee, and two as Gyuuki himself says that he's not the next strongest under Kurama. :huh.:

Source?

 

[mortalone]

To note, the Sound Four instantly went CS Stage 2 upon clashing with Genma and Raido, and both of them had already exhausted their chakra on the mission they just completed when they discovered Orochimaru's elite. And to top things off, Sound Four couldn't kill Genma or Raido, even in CS2 form. They were pretty damn injured, but they still lived.

Yeah, I'd say they wouldn't stand a chance against a regular jonin already gassed up.

Tbf, they were on a time limit and went CS2 to take them out as fast as possible. They weren't dead but they couldn't pursue and that was more than enough so they didn't bother stick around.

Bearing in mind I haven't gone back to see the scene in question. Were the S4 even injured from the fight?

Manga canon only shows them going to CS1, not CS2. And if you look here, they are horribly fucked up:
<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v21/c185/6.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v21/c185/6.html</a>

Sound Four could not have killed them? They just didn't want to waste time and hang around when they had a mission to complete.

It may be the case that full powered Kimimaro could have defeated all four at the same time (though the argument that if they put their lives on the line and fought as a team I am not so certain), but as you say, it may be the case that he was beyond even Kakashi. We don't know for sure how strong he was, only that he was really, really powerful and well beyond Sasuke in ability. He should certainly not be taken as evidence that Sasuke could defeat the Sound Four all at once.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

Popping in randomly here, I will add a little tidbit:

<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v21/c186/2.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v21/c186/2.html</a>

You are correct that it only shows them only going 1, however following the conversation in the next chapter it's pretty clear they all went to 2 in order to defeat them, and it's blatantly clear they were pretty tired as a result of that.

 

[goldenarms]

To note, the Sound Four instantly went CS Stage 2 upon clashing with Genma and Raido, and both of them had already exhausted their chakra on the mission they just completed when they discovered Orochimaru's elite. And to top things off, Sound Four couldn't kill Genma or Raido, even in CS2 form. They were pretty damn injured, but they still lived.

Yeah, I'd say they wouldn't stand a chance against a regular jonin already gassed up.

Tbf, they were on a time limit and went CS2 to take them out as fast as possible. They weren't dead but they couldn't pursue and that was more than enough so they didn't bother stick around.

Bearing in mind I haven't gone back to see the scene in question. Were the S4 even injured from the fight?

The problem with CS2 is that it eats away at their bodies, so even if they switched to that form to win faster, any time gained would have been lost by the fact that they would have to stop, rest, and recover from the usage. Plus, they flatly admitted that without CS2, they would have been dead.

In short, they didn't have an option but to use CS2.

 

[goldenarms]

To note, the Sound Four instantly went CS Stage 2 upon clashing with Genma and Raido, and both of them had already exhausted their chakra on the mission they just completed when they discovered Orochimaru's elite. And to top things off, Sound Four couldn't kill Genma or Raido, even in CS2 form. They were pretty damn injured, but they still lived.

Yeah, I'd say they wouldn't stand a chance against a regular jonin already gassed up.

Tbf, they were on a time limit and went CS2 to take them out as fast as possible. They weren't dead but they couldn't pursue and that was more than enough so they didn't bother stick around.

Bearing in mind I haven't gone back to see the scene in question. Were the S4 even injured from the fight?

Manga canon only shows them going to CS1, not CS2. And if you look here, they are horribly fucked up:
<a href='http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v21/c185/6.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v21/c185/6.html</a>

Sound Four could not have killed them? They just didn't want to waste time and hang around when they had a mission to complete.

It may be the case that full powered Kimimaro could have defeated all four at the same time (though the argument that if they put their lives on the line and fought as a team I am not so certain), but as you say, it may be the case that he was beyond even Kakashi. We don't know for sure how strong he was, only that he was really, really powerful and well beyond Sasuke in ability. He should certainly not be taken as evidence that Sasuke could defeat the Sound Four all at once.

CS1 is the scribbles appearing on one half half of their bodies. CS2 has the scribbles going all the way across and then expanding, completely changing their appearance.

Also, CS2 hurts them, too, so it's not a luxury transformation when they're on a clock. They had to stop and waste time recovering from its usage. And, as I said, they flat out stated that without going CS2, they would have died to Genma and Raido, who had no chakra to use against them.

And, I'm somewhat confused. Sasuke couldn't beat Sound 4. Even with his power-up, I highly doubt Sasuke could compete against all four of them at once. Jirobo, probably could take him. The others, not so certain. Definitely not all together.

 

[Dunstan]

Bee is assassinated (SOMEHOW, at some point) by a root agent, Danzo finds a way to talk Hiruzen into making Sasuke the jinchuriki. Instant power up, more potent than a curse seal, and gives him a more solid connection to Naruto.

Yes I'm sure it's incredibly unlikely, but I'm tired.

I'd use one of the other beast, one so you don't have to kill Bee, and two as Gyuuki himself says that he's not the next strongest under Kurama. :huh.:

Source?

Somewhere in the meddle of of there might with Tobi, before all the others were taken out, Kurama made some kind of comment like "Why aren't you doing better, you the next strongest after me" and he said something like "You know that's not how it works! That kind of thinking is why the one-tails(forget how you spell it) always hated you."

And encase it wasn't clear, no I don't remember what chapter. :snigger: :sweat: :huh.:

 

[Masterly]

Bee is assassinated (SOMEHOW, at some point) by a root agent, Danzo finds a way to talk Hiruzen into making Sasuke the jinchuriki. Instant power up, more potent than a curse seal, and gives him a more solid connection to Naruto.

Yes I'm sure it's incredibly unlikely, but I'm tired.

I'd use one of the other beast, one so you don't have to kill Bee, and two as Gyuuki himself says that he's not the next strongest under Kurama. :huh.:

Well, the Uchiha do have a connection with cats...

 

[raedric]

Bee is assassinated (SOMEHOW, at some point) by a root agent, Danzo finds a way to talk Hiruzen into making Sasuke the jinchuriki. Instant power up, more potent than a curse seal, and gives him a more solid connection to Naruto.

Yes I'm sure it's incredibly unlikely, but I'm tired.

I'd use one of the other beast, one so you don't have to kill Bee, and two as Gyuuki himself says that he's not the next strongest under Kurama. :huh.:

It's actually only because we know the most about Gyuuki that I suggested it, though now that I'm thinking about it I'd much prefer to see him with Son Goku in him. Seemed reasonable enough, makes me think of Enma and the Sarutobi clan, which in turn makes me think of Sarutobi Sasuke. And I like the idea of Sasuke spitting lava around.

Does it make sense? My thought process tends to be very disorganized and ADD-ish.