Square Enix General Discussion

[Zenithos]

Ok, first off, let's discuss the games Square Enix has cranked out in the past decade.

What do you think is the best SE game so far?

IMO, so far, the best game they've made is Kingdom Hearts, in terms of premise and story. FF8 wasn't too bad, but I had a funny feeling that the story lacked....depth. What do you think?

Does anyone here share the sentiment that FF7 DoC had one of the most dissapointing gameplay every? I was personally expecting something at least comparible to DMC, but all I got was jump, aim, shoot, jump, aim, shoot, and die.

And does anyone know where to get info on the new FF XIII?

 

[sigfried27]

Dirge of Cerberus was dissapointing gameplay wise, but what do you expect when the try to turn FF into an FPS. The story aspect of it wasn't bad though, well, the main story of it was average, but the answers about Vincents past that FF7 left out were good.

Kingdom hearts is a pretty good series, but just a bit too happy for my tastes, but what do you expect from a joint game with Disney.

I'd have to say that my favorite Square Enix game would still have to be FF7. Some people may hate it, but I loved that game, and really wish that they would remake it for PS3, but the hopes of that happining are low.

Some other notable entries are the ones that were not Square's but were picked up in the merger. Star Ocean 3 was good except for the random change in the direction of the plot, and Grandia 3 was not bad, though I liked 1 and 2 better. And then, they also have Dragon Quest 8, which was not a bad game either.

As for FFXIII, I don't know much about it except for the fact that they are supposedly making three different versions of it to satisfy different types of fans.

Overall, I would say that Square Enix is not really bad in the RPG genre, but I still like some games from other series better

 

[GenocideHeart]

First off,, I'll admit that NOTHING by Square Enix met my approval since the merger. That said, the game that went closest to being approved by me was Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. I am one of the few who liked the whole plot twist midway in the game, and the characters were characterized very well, except for Mirage and Adray (but they were bonus characters, so no complaint).

If anything, what brought the game down was item creation. I expected something more... involving.

DQ8 was mehish, the FF7 spinoffs were horrific shit (especially Dirge of Cerberus), FFT Advance shat all over FFT's legacy, and FFXII was the postergame for yaoi and flat characters, with vaan looking like a fucking trap and the rest of the cast being about as likable and expressive as a slab of rock.

The battle system was also novel... for the first couple hours. Then it became horrifically boring. About the only reason I found to play FFXII was the OMG KEWL GRAFIKS N FVM and Fran's ass. Not necessarily in that order. :unsure!:

Regarding Kingdom Hearts, it fails for a simple reason: Goofy and Donald suck. Why not make Uncle Scrooge McDuck the magician? He certainly looks the part... The fact the ally AI is one of the worst I've ever seen, even when tweaked, burning through your potions in a matter of minutes, does not help any.

KH2 on the other hand, was good. Reason?

Jack Sparrow.

I don't care how shitty a game is (and KH2 was plenty shitty IMHO - lame Zelda clone part 2), Jack Sparrow automatically makes it 1000x better. :snigger:

Regarding the pre-merger games, Enix games beat the FUCK out of Square games. I'll pick Star Ocean 2 and Dragon Quest 7 over Final Craptasy 8 and The Bouncer anytime, thanks a lot.

The last Square game I truly enjoyed besides FFT (which even in its PSX incarnation, had SERIOUS ISSUES - a shitty translation and several game breaking bugs among them) was Seiken Densetsu 3. That should tell you just how low my opinion of Square has sunk.

Personally, nowadays I avidly gobble up Atlus games. Between their poster Megaten and Ogre Battle series, the N1 games' localization, Super Robot taisen and the obscure titles it specializes in (hello Yggdra Union!!), Atlus is now my favorite producer.

 

[GenocideHeart]

By the way, I intentionally refused to touch the subject of the atrocity known as FFX-2. Don't make me start on it. You won't like it.

Just a fair warning. Not that my opinion of FFX or FF8 is much better, mind you...

 

[EagleCeres]

Pshhhh... best squeenix game...
Final Fantasy VI
I wish the 'remake' would have been remade with ff8 or ff10's graphics. Other than that, the original 16/32? bit story version owns...
- Best Evil Villian... Kefka (Cefca), because HE dont need to be a pretty boy to rule, destroy and pwn the world.
- More than 12 Playable characters.
- Ooodles and Ooodles of miniquests.
- Mr. Thou... how can you not love Mr. Thou???
- Drama... have you seen the amount of story boards and all weaved/thatched together nicely!!!
- Aria di Mezzo Caratere... nuff said!

 

[sigfried27]

FFVI was good,though I never did actually finish it. I got to the last dungeon and then just moved on for some reason or other.

And GH, we already had the discussion on SO3's plot twist, that is why I intentionally worded it as the change in direction as opposed to just saying the plot twist. I meant to imply that the plot after that point was bad. Also, you said yourself that you liked Grandia 3, and that was from Square Enix, so that makes two.

DQ8 was alright, I think that reviews gave it a bit more praise then it deserved, but I have seen far worse (Grandia Xtreme, Unlimited Saga, Arc the Lad: End of Darkness, etc...)

Personally, I don't mind some of there stuff as much as you do since I am big on plot as opposed to just gameplay, and in addition, pretty much anything that is new to me is fine for a while. FF8 was average, though not that great to me, and for FFX, despite being incredibly easy, the plot, though generic, was not too bad for me until their plot twist at the very end of it. I think I am just against Square Enix's attempt at plot twists.

And I will agree with you about FFX-2...that was just bad...really bad. And I agree about FFXII...also pretty bad.

And I will agree about SO2. I didn't care much for the plot, but the game itself was pretty good. Never played DQ7 though, so I can't comment on that.

As for FFT, I liked it, but it was too easy to level up since you could just continually use a self buff on yourself to level effortlessly. Also, I got really pissed off because I spent a lot of time leveling up Cloud...only to have an enemy break his buster sword and make him useless...then I was pissed.

And lastly, in regards to Atlus, I have always been a bit wary of Atlus after Thousand Arms. Granted, it is not fair to judge a company based on one game, but aside from humor, Thousand Arms had nothing, crappy plot and horrible battle system.

Like I said, I don't mind Square Enix, but there are other companies that make better series.

 

[Demon Eyes Laharl]

I... uh... like FFXII...?

^-^;; dont flame me. :lol:

 

[GenocideHeart]

I... uh... like FFXII...?

^-^;; dont flame me. :lol:

Nah, I won't flame you.

*stabs repeatedly 8BT Black Mage-style, then finishes with a Hadoken*

This is much better. :snigger: :evil:

 

[Demon Eyes Laharl]

My suit!

lol. Alright, then, question! What's wrong with 12? XD

 

[GenocideHeart]

My suit!

lol. Alright, then, question! What's wrong with 12? XD

I'll quote myself to answer that:

FFXII was the postergame for yaoi and flat characters, with Vaan looking like a fucking trap and the rest of the cast being about as likable and expressive as a slab of rock.

The battle system was also novel... for the first couple hours. Then it became horrifically boring. About the only reason I found to play FFXII was the OMG KEWL GRAFIKS N FVM and Fran's ass. Not necessarily in that order.

 

[Grunt]

About the only reason I found to play FFXII was the OMG KEWL GRAFIKS N FVM and Fran's ass

The only reason but that would be more than enough I would think :snigger:


though the only FF I ever played were 8 and 10 and I did enjoyed them, can't say anything for the rest of them.

Just a quick question though. Mirage was a bonus character? :blink:

 

[armedlord]

My opinion of FFX-2? I rather play a horror game than to even touch it (even if it is to sell it, which I can't as it's my brothers game) without my wooden sword (that I bought for the hell of it) in my left hand.

As if you guys are asking on why I said that...well...I scare rather easily when it comes to things like Resident Evil and such. Try to mention about them and I WILL likely run away or avoid the subject with something if I can. Easily in the top five things I rather not do. Considering that I consider FFX-2 HIGHER than horror stuff...yeah. With enough persuading (bribes) I would try somehting that has horror in it, but you can't get me to try FFX-2 again.

With FFXII...I consider it 'meh'. Meh as in, "certainly passes the time, but not really intresting to do so" kind of meh. The License system isn't really that intresting to use as, other than the espers and maybe the quickening stuff, you can practically make each character the same thing in the end. Considering that I can kill the most basic stuff and get 1 License Point and then kill something at my level (40) and practically get 1 as well means that it's really too easy to get practically everything there if you have the time.

The Mark system with titles that the game has mostly killed the time but the items I've gotten were pretty much lower than what I had already or just common items that I could have gotten.

The Loot system, was intresting as well, but considering that it's the only way to gain money or with the right loot that you have to guess at to get better items than what you're using at the moment...yeah. Also, if I recall right, I have to keep chaining kills or something to get better loot than what I'm getting so I can get more money to buy stuff that I need to last longer...and I suck at chaining so I'm usually getting low end loot and thus I have to take longer to get the items at times.

The puzzles...I usually got through them even without knowing what the hell I was doing. And considering that I'm more or less a dumbass, that's not a good thing.

Seperate, both companies were decent. Now, they seem to basically mess up on load of things. Like GH, I'm leaning towards games from N1 and Atlus now. (and whenever the next Wild Arms game or Suikoden one comes out here for the Us, I'm getting those too))

Mirage was a bonus character?

Yes she was. If I recall before, Japan didn't use her as an optional character for some reason or another when they made the game.

Edit: Anybody else notice that it looks like Final Fantasy Tactics from the PSX is being remade for the PSP?

 

[Grunt]

Strange, I know I always had her in my party and I don't remember doing anything to get her. Oh who cares. ^_^

Has anyone seen the new Final Fantasy Versus XIII Trailer? The new trailer shows some extra scenes apart from the first one from what I have heard.

 

[Mereo Flere]

Hmm...

The last decent SE game...

Radiata Stories.

I pretty much loved everything about it: The Characters, The Plot, The Gameplay, everything.

Other than that, I thought that Star Ocean 3 was good, and Dragon Quest wasn't bad.

But the one game I'm disappointed the most in is Unlimited Saga.

That was more evil any anything else mentioned here.

 

[AWJ]

Am I the only one here who liked Unlimited Saga? It reminded me a little of the classic DOS RPG Darklands. It had some significant game-mechanics flaws, but what Square game doesn't? (Vanish/Death, anyone?)

The novelty of a console RPG with an actual out-of-battle skill system (lockpicking, stealth, even hax0ring treasure chest contents via fortunetelling) was one thing, but combining it with a timing/rhythm-based resolution mechanism instead of an invisible Random Number God (that you always suspect to be rigged in the back of your head) was brilliant.

 

[Mereo Flere]

It would have been been a good idea.

If it weren't so horribly executed.

There was very little that was redeeming about it. Graphics, though unique, you got sick of soon enough. Characters were either underdeveloped or not developed at all, and the story lines weren't interesting. And I always felt that the slots were always rigged, especially when you were trying to link attacks together and the enemy goes "Whoops, you forgot about me, didn't ya?"

Half the time, you wouldn't get any obvious directions, and would just have to wander from one area of the map to another hoping that you got to the right place before the monsters killed you, and...

Most SE games have flaws, but Unlimited Saga was complete failure.

I did manage to beat one storyline, hoping it would get better...but it was entirely crap, and the ending was just a lame "Okay, here I am, doing more deliveries with my brother's ex-and look, new jacket!". The Saga series in general seem amusing, but this one...I don't even want to attempt another.

 

[sigfried27]

Am I the only one here who liked Unlimited Saga? It reminded me a little of the classic DOS RPG Darklands. It had some significant game-mechanics flaws, but what Square game doesn't?

Well, if you really like slot machines, then I guess that Unlimited Saga could be good, but I personally despised it. There was no free movement, just selecting a direction to go to a different room, and everything, and I mean everything, was determined by slots. Want to attack an enemy, play some slots. Want to open a treasure chest, play some slots. Want to avoid a trap, play some slots. Want to breathe, play slots. It was just bad.

Just a quick question though. Mirage was a bonus character?

Mirage and Adray were always in the game, but were only playable in the directors cut in Japan. The US release was the Japanese directors cut, so it included both Adray and Mirage as playable. Mirage is always part of the story, but just kind of randomly decides at one point that she wants to go with you in the US version.

The last decent SE game...

Radiata Stories.

Not a bad game, especially if you enjoy the lighthearted, but I got pissed of at the non-human ending. I watched it, sat there for a while staring at the screen, then thought 'That's it...bullshit.' but otherwise, it wasn't too bad.

Alright, then, question! What's wrong with 12?

This is discussed in the latter half of the "What games are you playing" thread, go there to see some of the complaints against it.

 

[Mereo Flere]

The last decent SE game...

Radiata Stories.

Not a bad game, especially if you enjoy the lighthearted, but I got pissed of at the non-human ending. I watched it, sat there for a while staring at the screen, then thought 'That's it...bullshit.' but otherwise, it wasn't too bad.

To be fair, everyone I've met personally hated the fairy path as well.

Too bad the human path seemed less developed compared to it, but I still enjoyed that side of the story.

 

[Fatuous One]

I'm with the general opinion of SquareEnix games going down the drain. However, I don't really think that (besides a fewà exceptionsà [Yeah, I'm looking at YOU X-2/FFTA!]), it's really gone beyond mediocre. FF3/6 is probably the highest Squaresoft/Enix games on my favorite list, maybe.

 

[OniGanon]

About the only reason I found to play FFXII was the OMG KEWL GRAFIKS N FVM and Fran's ass. Not necessarily in that order. :unsure!:

Sure is a nice ass though.

 

[AWJ]

Well, if you really like slot machines, then I guess that Unlimited Saga could be good, but I personally despised it. There was no free movement, just selecting a direction to go to a different room, and everything, and I mean everything, was determined by slots. Want to attack an enemy, play some slots. Want to open a treasure chest, play some slots. Want to avoid a trap, play some slots. Want to breathe, play slots. It was just bad.

I don't see how abstracting a dungeon into a topological grid of nodes and connections is any less "free" than abstracting the same dungeon into a Cartesian grid of 16x16-pixel blocks like nearly every 2D CRPG in history does.

As for the reels, really, there are only three ways to resolve player actions in an RPG:

1) Deterministically: This lock requires a Lockpicking skill of at least 19 to open. If your character's skill is only 18, sorry pal. This is "fair" but, well, pretty boring. The Might and Magic games tended to use deterministic skill systems, if I remember them correctly (the last one I played was M&M7 some years ago).

2) Randomly: The probability of picking the lock is equal to your Lockpicking skill plus your Dexterity minus the lock's difficulty level, out of 100. This works well in pen-and-paper RPGs where you can see the odds and then physically roll the dice, but in a computer RPG it tends to leave you feeling vaguely uninvolved, and you can't help but wonder whether the "dice" are rigged against you (and the game often doesn't even tell you what your chance of success is or what factors affect it)

3) Interactively: You play a skill-testing minigame to determine your character's success. Since this is an RPG, the difficulty of the minigame is adjusted by the difficulty of the task relative to the capability of your character. This is the method that makes the player feel most directly involved in his character's fate. Some games have a plethora of different minigames for different actions (e.g. the old D&D-license game Hillsfar for the C64), but USaga uses a unified mechanism. USaga's reel is visually unique and striking, giving the game an eyecatching "trademark". Importantly, it gives you feedback of a particular task's difficulty (if two thirds of the reel is green then your character is slumming, whereas if there are only two green panels on the reel then he's attempting a task at the very limit of his abilities) Yes, it's a gimmick, but it's no more so than Materia or Spheres or a Job System, and it serves a valid purpose.

 

[sigfried27]

I don't see how abstracting a dungeon into a topological grid of nodes and connections is any less "free" than abstracting the same dungeon into a Cartesian grid of 16x16-pixel blocks like nearly every 2D CRPG in history does.

As for the reels, really, there are only three ways to resolve player actions in an RPG:

1) Deterministically: This lock requires a Lockpicking skill of at least 19 to open. If your character's skill is only 18, sorry pal. This is "fair" but, well, pretty boring. The Might and Magic games tended to use deterministic skill systems, if I remember them correctly (the last one I played was M&M7 some years ago).

2) Randomly: The probability of picking the lock is equal to your Lockpicking skill plus your Dexterity minus the lock's difficulty level, out of 100. This works well in pen-and-paper RPGs where you can see the odds and then physically roll the dice, but in a computer RPG it tends to leave you feeling vaguely uninvolved, and you can't help but wonder whether the "dice" are rigged against you (and the game often doesn't even tell you what your chance of success is or what factors affect it)

3) Interactively: You play a skill-testing minigame to determine your character's success. Since this is an RPG, the difficulty of the minigame is adjusted by the difficulty of the task relative to the capability of your character. This is the method that makes the player feel most directly involved in his character's fate. Some games have a plethora of different minigames for different actions (e.g. the old D&D-license game Hillsfar for the C64), but USaga uses a unified mechanism. USaga's reel is visually unique and striking, giving the game an eyecatching "trademark". Importantly, it gives you feedback of a particular task's difficulty (if two thirds of the reel is green then your character is slumming, whereas if there are only two green panels on the reel then he's attempting a task at the very limit of his abilities) Yes, it's a gimmick, but it's no more so than Materia or Spheres or a Job System, and it serves a valid purpose.

First off, I could accept it if you could not move in only the dungeons, or if you could not move only in towns, but when you can't make a single movement in the entire damn game. Yes, there is not much difference in constriction in area between being able to control where you go in a set background and what Unlimited Saga has, but by the point in time that US was made, you should not be moving around a bunch of single colored panels choosing directions to go with chances of wither encountering a random monster or treasure chest. Wether you can truly go anywhere or not, most people still prefer to actually be able to move themselves around the environment.

Second, how is a thin bar with bright happy colors and hand symbols construed as "visually unique and striking, giving the game an eyecatching trademark." A third grader can give you a blue bar with some bright color spots, there is nothing striking about it.

Lastly, while things like the materia system or job classes are a gimmick, they don't apply to EVERY SINGLE DAMN THING IN THE GAME! If the slots where just for battle, I might accept it. If they were just for traps or just for lockpicking, I might accept it, but everything in the damn game revolves around slots.

Basically, you can get the same effect of US by playing slots in a casino while reading a book and looking at some single color paint chip squares, because that's what US esentially is.

However, this is just my opinion, you are free to think whatever you want about the game

 

[Demon Eyes Laharl]

About the only reason I found to play FFXII was the OMG KEWL GRAFIKS N FVM and Fran's ass. Not necessarily in that order.? :unsure!:

Sure is a nice ass though.

Other than Tsuruko, Fran's got my heart too. Love her voice too.

sexy :wub:

 

[Fatuous One]

Other than Tsuruko, Fran's got my heart too. Love her voice too.

Really?

Huh... I actually thought she was the blandest of the entire VA cast.

 

[Raven]

Of all the Final Fantasy games, Final Fantasy Tactics (the orginal, not the hack game boy advanced version) has to be my favorite despite the unsatisfactory character development for most of your playable characters and the crappy translation job they did.