Tales from the PUG Stone
- Thread starter akun50
- Start date
"Best" way to mimic that...er, "feat" would be to drop a Death and Decay on a target mob that's a good deal away, then have a number of Howling Blasts on the furthest available mobs, and blood boil a few of the closest mobs.
Of course, you'd have to max your Defense, Expertise, Dodge and Parry bonuses, but that's half the fuck up... :unsure!: er, fun.
Even then, you're pretty much guaranteeing an ass-kicking from your own group, even if the DPS can all drop AoEs and tear down the entire mob you've attained, because it's a moronic move by any stretch.
Hell, I doubt a RAID COULD put up with that kind of stupidity, let alone a smaller group.
Of course, you'd have to max your Defense, Expertise, Dodge and Parry bonuses, but that's half the fuck up... :unsure!: er, fun.
Even then, you're pretty much guaranteeing an ass-kicking from your own group, even if the DPS can all drop AoEs and tear down the entire mob you've attained, because it's a moronic move by any stretch.
Hell, I doubt a RAID COULD put up with that kind of stupidity, let alone a smaller group.
Finally got into an ICC-25 pug, and it went pretty damn well. 6/12 bosses before they called it for the night, with no wipes until Rotface and I won a very very good belt upgrade. From ilv 213 to ilv 264. Even without gems and belt buckle, the damn thing is better than the 213 belt. Plus saves me from having to spend emblems on belt upgrade now (or buying AH one), so even better.
Had my first run of Occulus two nights ago. I can see why so many people complain about that. I had NO fucking clue what good or not and everyone else was fairly experienced except me.
After two wipes with me using a red drake, my far-more-knowledgeable friend was willing to take up the red drake in my stead and we finally managed to get the fucking dragon down.
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Last night, I had 3 non-heroic runs in a row with my priestess. Two were Azjol-Nerub and one was Old Kingdom. EVERY time, the tank and two of the DPS would leave after we'd finished, but what was hilarious was EVERY TIME the rest of us requed, we'd get the SAME Warlock. :snigger:
We did fairly well. Only 1 full wipe. It was in Azjol-Nerub because I was webbed and no one could get to me in time. We nearly wiped again in Old Kingdom because of the fucking spell interupts the Eyes of Taldaram have. :angry:
But we survived and did surprisingly well. The Herald was, as all of you mentioned, not that much fun as a spellcaster. Especially an extra squishy one like me.
I'm still pissed that Priests don't get a battle rez, yet Shamans, Druids and even Warlocks do. Even if it had a 30 minute cooldown AND required a reagent, a fucking battle rez would be nice. Especially since I had three incidents last night when I got stuck in combat mode for over 5 fucking minutes (thankfully, no one needed a rez during those incidents, but still). :rant:
After two wipes with me using a red drake, my far-more-knowledgeable friend was willing to take up the red drake in my stead and we finally managed to get the fucking dragon down.
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Last night, I had 3 non-heroic runs in a row with my priestess. Two were Azjol-Nerub and one was Old Kingdom. EVERY time, the tank and two of the DPS would leave after we'd finished, but what was hilarious was EVERY TIME the rest of us requed, we'd get the SAME Warlock. :snigger:
We did fairly well. Only 1 full wipe. It was in Azjol-Nerub because I was webbed and no one could get to me in time. We nearly wiped again in Old Kingdom because of the fucking spell interupts the Eyes of Taldaram have. :angry:
But we survived and did surprisingly well. The Herald was, as all of you mentioned, not that much fun as a spellcaster. Especially an extra squishy one like me.
I'm still pissed that Priests don't get a battle rez, yet Shamans, Druids and even Warlocks do. Even if it had a 30 minute cooldown AND required a reagent, a fucking battle rez would be nice. Especially since I had three incidents last night when I got stuck in combat mode for over 5 fucking minutes (thankfully, no one needed a rez during those incidents, but still). :rant:
Used to be that battle rez was exactly what you said, a 30 minute cd and a reagent cost. It also used to be the druid's ONLY rez spell. Furthermore, reincarnation and soulstoning are somewhat different mechanics from a true battle rez. A soulstone gets put on one person (usually a rez class, or whoever dies the most in a particular group) for one of the two reasons I mentioned in the parentheses; it's a pre-rez, in essence, and is usually used in old-content groups to prevent a wipe from making all five, ten, twenty, twenty-five, or forty members of a group/raid from having to run all the way through a long-ass dungeon just to get back to where they died. Reincarnation (popularly known as ankhing, due to the particular reagent) is not usable on anybody else, and serves about the same purpose as a soulstone.
Both of those are proactive on the part of the warlock or shaman. The druid's battle-rez is entirely reactive (as in, I can't pre-cast Rebirth on somebody who I know will die in the next ten minutes, unlike giving a shaman an ankh or a lock throwing a soulstone on somebody) even though it has more utility than either of the other features (usable on anybody at any time it's not on cooldown, unlike the soulstone which is insurance for a specific person dying (usually a healer, occasionally a tank.)) Healing priests have the best healing versatility in the game (need a hot? they've got those. A quick heal? got those. A big hit incoming? Time a Greater Heal for just after it hits), they have Mass Dispel, AND PW:S. Would a b-rez be nice? Yeah, but it would also be overkill. Druid healers are mostly HoT and raid-healing specialists. Holydins are pretty much specialized for tank healing. Shamans have a bit more utility than the other two, but priests have a different spell for just about every time somebody needs healing.
On a related note, I hated healing on Elyn back before they put in the actual druid rez, because during a run where I was the only rez class, I'd inevitably have two idiots die on me at once.
Both of those are proactive on the part of the warlock or shaman. The druid's battle-rez is entirely reactive (as in, I can't pre-cast Rebirth on somebody who I know will die in the next ten minutes, unlike giving a shaman an ankh or a lock throwing a soulstone on somebody) even though it has more utility than either of the other features (usable on anybody at any time it's not on cooldown, unlike the soulstone which is insurance for a specific person dying (usually a healer, occasionally a tank.)) Healing priests have the best healing versatility in the game (need a hot? they've got those. A quick heal? got those. A big hit incoming? Time a Greater Heal for just after it hits), they have Mass Dispel, AND PW:S. Would a b-rez be nice? Yeah, but it would also be overkill. Druid healers are mostly HoT and raid-healing specialists. Holydins are pretty much specialized for tank healing. Shamans have a bit more utility than the other two, but priests have a different spell for just about every time somebody needs healing.
On a related note, I hated healing on Elyn back before they put in the actual druid rez, because during a run where I was the only rez class, I'd inevitably have two idiots die on me at once.
On the Eyes of Taldaram mob, keep in mind that while their interrupt/school lock is instant cast, it can only be cast if you have the debuff "Eyes in the Dark" on you, and I -think- only if you're in the middle of casting when they target you. So you could just stick to HoTs/shields, I think. Not sure about that one, but I know the debuff bit for sure.
Just stopcast as soon as you see debuff, dispel, back to healing. Sure, you lose 1-2 seconds of healing...but better than 8 seconds. Plus you don't really have to worry about it on other classes. Most classes have two or more schools of magic, and those that don't, such as pallies, can cleanse themselves.
Also, priests may not have battle rez...but they have the most options as healers. They have, what, 10+ healing spells, not counting talented spells? AoE heals, single target heals, smart heals, preventive shelds, lightwell, strong heals, fast heals, mana-efficient heals, HoTs, instant heals, and so on and so on.
You guys aren't exactly lacking in stuff. Given the sheer versatility, asking for even more...sheesh. =p
Just stopcast as soon as you see debuff, dispel, back to healing. Sure, you lose 1-2 seconds of healing...but better than 8 seconds. Plus you don't really have to worry about it on other classes. Most classes have two or more schools of magic, and those that don't, such as pallies, can cleanse themselves.
Also, priests may not have battle rez...but they have the most options as healers. They have, what, 10+ healing spells, not counting talented spells? AoE heals, single target heals, smart heals, preventive shelds, lightwell, strong heals, fast heals, mana-efficient heals, HoTs, instant heals, and so on and so on.
You guys aren't exactly lacking in stuff. Given the sheer versatility, asking for even more...sheesh. =p
So yeah, I'm now officially geared enough to tank ICC10. And I did it with no trouble, aside from a stupid pally tank pulling all of the threat on trash... >_>
Being a blood tank means super single-target with maybe some cleave. Not very fun with 10 of those fucking skeletons rushing at you. Put down a D&D, IT/PS/Pest, and hope to god that your raid members don't out-threat you or the other tank. On the other hand, I consistently out-threat my partner on bosses, so much that I have to stop auto-attacking whenever he taunts, so that I won't pull aggro off of him.
Being a blood tank means super single-target with maybe some cleave. Not very fun with 10 of those fucking skeletons rushing at you. Put down a D&D, IT/PS/Pest, and hope to god that your raid members don't out-threat you or the other tank. On the other hand, I consistently out-threat my partner on bosses, so much that I have to stop auto-attacking whenever he taunts, so that I won't pull aggro off of him.
Why is the pally tank stupid for pulling threat off you on trash? That's what they do! =p
Let him do the tanking on most of it, just grab 1-2 of his mobs and single target threat them. When you have a comfortable threat lead, taunt something, focus on new mob while maintaining threat on original target. Only worry about the aoe threat if the pally+healers are really having issues with one person tanking a lot of mobs, though if you grab the ones that hit hard, it should work out.
Or if you -do- want to do more aoe threat, dump glyph of death strike and grab glyph of death and decay. Obviously, this depends on how much threat lead you usually have on dps during boss fights. If it's not a lot, just stick to being a single target focused tank, and live with it. It does sound like you're pretty comfortable with your single target threat though. You could also just wait until you get a second t10 piece for the DnD damage bonus. That'll help tremendously.
Let him do the tanking on most of it, just grab 1-2 of his mobs and single target threat them. When you have a comfortable threat lead, taunt something, focus on new mob while maintaining threat on original target. Only worry about the aoe threat if the pally+healers are really having issues with one person tanking a lot of mobs, though if you grab the ones that hit hard, it should work out.
Or if you -do- want to do more aoe threat, dump glyph of death strike and grab glyph of death and decay. Obviously, this depends on how much threat lead you usually have on dps during boss fights. If it's not a lot, just stick to being a single target focused tank, and live with it. It does sound like you're pretty comfortable with your single target threat though. You could also just wait until you get a second t10 piece for the DnD damage bonus. That'll help tremendously.
Yeah, I know, I was just venting for a bit. This is how all of my raids go, extremely inconsistent. On one hand, we can oneshot Marrowgar, Deathwhisper, and the Rotting Frost Giant in one go, but then completely fail at Gunship because only one healer remembered to put on the rocket pack.
Yeah, like that.
I'm pretty happy single-threat tanking though, that's where the DKs truly shine. AoE? Go ahead, shield-user, take them all. I don't want them. =D
Yeah, like that.
I'm pretty happy single-threat tanking though, that's where the DKs truly shine. AoE? Go ahead, shield-user, take them all. I don't want them. =D
I will admit to some obvious envy towards the Druid's battle rez.
I'm a squishy cloth class. Of course I'm going to bitch for more goodies.
In honesty, the battle rez is only an issue because of the battle-lock shit that I've run into. As I mentioned, battle lock has prevented me from being able to rez numerous times, and it's quite infuriating when two or more minutes might pass since the fight's finished and I'm STILL unable to rez. :no: :blue:
But in all seriousness, I understand the meta reasons for giving Shamans and Warlocks their respective pre-rezs, since both are heavily involved with soul/spirit magics.
Class envy is nasty, but I can't help getting it at times.
But, whatever the case...
PRIESTS FTW, MUTHAFUCKAS!
I'm a squishy cloth class. Of course I'm going to bitch for more goodies.
In honesty, the battle rez is only an issue because of the battle-lock shit that I've run into. As I mentioned, battle lock has prevented me from being able to rez numerous times, and it's quite infuriating when two or more minutes might pass since the fight's finished and I'm STILL unable to rez. :no: :blue:
But in all seriousness, I understand the meta reasons for giving Shamans and Warlocks their respective pre-rezs, since both are heavily involved with soul/spirit magics.
Class envy is nasty, but I can't help getting it at times.
But, whatever the case...
PRIESTS FTW, MUTHAFUCKAS!
While I know its my own fault for joining a pug, I just had the most infuriating ICC25 experience. In theory everybody SHOULD know what to do, everybody was psting achievements to raid leader who was running gear checks/armory to confirm achievement or something like that.
We sped through the trash and one shotted Marrowgor but then got to Deathwhisper....wtf were people smoking. If it wasn't for two tanks who had at the start of the battle announcing which side they would be picking up adds but them mysteriously being on the other side, it was meelee attacking the wrong adds that spawned, or people not focusing fire on the adds slowing their death down. However WORST of all were the )$*#($ morons who were killing the mind controlled raid members instead of leaving them CC'd by our hunters. We kept losing huge amounts of dps that way even with people on vent screaming at them to stop fucking killing them. THis happened 3 times as we kept wiping on her. Just oh my god it was so infuriating.
We sped through the trash and one shotted Marrowgor but then got to Deathwhisper....wtf were people smoking. If it wasn't for two tanks who had at the start of the battle announcing which side they would be picking up adds but them mysteriously being on the other side, it was meelee attacking the wrong adds that spawned, or people not focusing fire on the adds slowing their death down. However WORST of all were the )$*#($ morons who were killing the mind controlled raid members instead of leaving them CC'd by our hunters. We kept losing huge amounts of dps that way even with people on vent screaming at them to stop fucking killing them. THis happened 3 times as we kept wiping on her. Just oh my god it was so infuriating.
Wow, that does sound pretty horrible, Belgarion.
Also, Violin, how -does- one fail at gunship anyhow? I can honestly say I have not once used the jetpack to go to the other ship, I always just heal the tank from the edge of the horde ship and heals hit him just fine. In fact, the last three times I've done it, I've just not even bothered grabbing the jetpack because it's just a waste of time and novelty of using it has worn off. We never send any healers to the other side at all.
Edit: Or are you talking 25-man? Dunno 25-man well enough to know if that one you're supposed to have some healers jump.
Which is often the case when it's planned that way, my guild does this since it's less of a hassle and the healers are less likely to be killed since they're not risking their necks when jumping over. The only trouble will be the adds but with a decent off tank and the dps who didn't jump over they're not much of a problem.
FINALLY managed to get through ToC-25 faction champs. God, that was getting ridiculous having pug group fail there and fall apart week after week.
My shield dropped...but I lost the roll. :blue:
A bit lame, since he had an ilv 239 shield going to 245, when mine is...219. Damn RNG.
Oh well, at least finally got to do twins and anub, which makes me happy. Got "Salt and Pepper" achievement on twins too.
My shield dropped...but I lost the roll. :blue:
A bit lame, since he had an ilv 239 shield going to 245, when mine is...219. Damn RNG.
Oh well, at least finally got to do twins and anub, which makes me happy. Got "Salt and Pepper" achievement on twins too.
Problem with faction champs is that every single time up to this week, almost nobody does any CC (while other side is doing it tons), no cleanses, no focused dps despite very clear marking order.
Then people mass-bitch about fail group and mass-quit, leaving people just gaping and frustrated, especially since a lot of the people that stayed are the ones who were doing it RIGHT. Having lost about half the raid with a single wipe, group invariably falls apart since nobody wants to get saved, and I'm left screaming in rage.
So I was -extremely- happy that this run it went so smoothly. Not a -single- person died during faction champs.
Twins wasn't too bad, I actually did die since I'd never done the fight before, only read about it, but got brezzed and didn't die again. Only one other person died during that fight and he got brezzed too (we had four druids, lol).
Then people mass-bitch about fail group and mass-quit, leaving people just gaping and frustrated, especially since a lot of the people that stayed are the ones who were doing it RIGHT. Having lost about half the raid with a single wipe, group invariably falls apart since nobody wants to get saved, and I'm left screaming in rage.
So I was -extremely- happy that this run it went so smoothly. Not a -single- person died during faction champs.
Twins wasn't too bad, I actually did die since I'd never done the fight before, only read about it, but got brezzed and didn't die again. Only one other person died during that fight and he got brezzed too (we had four druids, lol).
Holy fucking awful.
So I see an ICC pug forming, looks like a good group and I join. How WRONG I was.
At the very start of the group, someone turns off hellscream's aura. We catch it by the second trash group, send everyone outside to reset instance.
That mob group in the middle, we all agree to skip, sticking to the left side. Someone pulls it. Wipe. Some people leave, we replace.
Then someone pulls something from the -right- side.
"It's just trash, they'll pull together with Marrowgar, if we wipe, I can always leave," I think.
Stupid idea.
We get to marrowgar, we have three tanks (I actually find it harder to heal with three tanks than two tanks, to be honest...and we had five healers. I'd rather have had a 6 healer/2 tank set-up, but that's just me)...and third tank goes down within 2 seconds. He gets brezzed. He goes down again. Another brez. Again. He died 3 times in that fight.
As we finish the boss, suddenly both the other tanks die, causing half the raid raid to wipe...but we're saved. Have to stomach it and march through now. Hopefully my shield drops...it doesn't. Crap.
As the RL hands out loot, saying "MS (1-100) > OS (1-99)", it becomes obvious how this group is a -troll- group, full of geared people just out for some laughs, as people start barraging the RL accusingof being a ninja RL, not giving loot rules or saying if anything is in reserve. This carries on throughout the -whole- raid, even as the RL has said enough on the subject, said he's not ninjaing anything, and that if he was going to reserve something he'd say so. But no, people want him to specifically say "No reserves" or something, because they keep harrassing him.
Wipe twice on Deathwhisper before she's downed. The first time, someone leeroys as they rush to her and start whacking at her (surprise, it's the third tank, a DK who spends all attempts just whacking at her instead of tanking, and once she's out...somehow never holds aggro on her).
And then it's gunship time....only someone -starts- the event while HALF THE RAID is still not on the ship. Wipe, one of the healers disappears finally fed up, then we succeed.
But we're down to four healers. Somehow they manage to convince a priest to join in. God knows how they did it, but they do.
Now Saurfang time. The epitome of harrassment starts as they say the RL will ninja the tokens...and someone goes "Lol, have fun with Saurfang, you ninja!" before hearthing as the event starts...and we see hellscream's aura is gone again.
And that's the breaking point. We wipe and call it. And I am saved to the shittiest pug in all existence.
I think the worst part is that I honestly feel sorry for the raid leader, the warrior tank. He was doing a decent job outside of the no vent thing (Yeah, that's right, no vent. That really should have been biggest warning sign to not go raid, to be fair), trying to humor the trolls (for far longer than I would have) and trying to manage things, and by the end of it, just about everyone believed the trolls and mocking the man.
Dittofor the priest getting saved to no boss -and- getting accused of not doing any healing because Recount shows hims last on heals (uhm, hello? look at last fight healing people, not overall).
Just....GAH!
Horrible group.
So I see an ICC pug forming, looks like a good group and I join. How WRONG I was.
At the very start of the group, someone turns off hellscream's aura. We catch it by the second trash group, send everyone outside to reset instance.
That mob group in the middle, we all agree to skip, sticking to the left side. Someone pulls it. Wipe. Some people leave, we replace.
Then someone pulls something from the -right- side.
"It's just trash, they'll pull together with Marrowgar, if we wipe, I can always leave," I think.
Stupid idea.
We get to marrowgar, we have three tanks (I actually find it harder to heal with three tanks than two tanks, to be honest...and we had five healers. I'd rather have had a 6 healer/2 tank set-up, but that's just me)...and third tank goes down within 2 seconds. He gets brezzed. He goes down again. Another brez. Again. He died 3 times in that fight.
As we finish the boss, suddenly both the other tanks die, causing half the raid raid to wipe...but we're saved. Have to stomach it and march through now. Hopefully my shield drops...it doesn't. Crap.
As the RL hands out loot, saying "MS (1-100) > OS (1-99)", it becomes obvious how this group is a -troll- group, full of geared people just out for some laughs, as people start barraging the RL accusingof being a ninja RL, not giving loot rules or saying if anything is in reserve. This carries on throughout the -whole- raid, even as the RL has said enough on the subject, said he's not ninjaing anything, and that if he was going to reserve something he'd say so. But no, people want him to specifically say "No reserves" or something, because they keep harrassing him.
Wipe twice on Deathwhisper before she's downed. The first time, someone leeroys as they rush to her and start whacking at her (surprise, it's the third tank, a DK who spends all attempts just whacking at her instead of tanking, and once she's out...somehow never holds aggro on her).
And then it's gunship time....only someone -starts- the event while HALF THE RAID is still not on the ship. Wipe, one of the healers disappears finally fed up, then we succeed.
But we're down to four healers. Somehow they manage to convince a priest to join in. God knows how they did it, but they do.
Now Saurfang time. The epitome of harrassment starts as they say the RL will ninja the tokens...and someone goes "Lol, have fun with Saurfang, you ninja!" before hearthing as the event starts...and we see hellscream's aura is gone again.
And that's the breaking point. We wipe and call it. And I am saved to the shittiest pug in all existence.
I think the worst part is that I honestly feel sorry for the raid leader, the warrior tank. He was doing a decent job outside of the no vent thing (Yeah, that's right, no vent. That really should have been biggest warning sign to not go raid, to be fair), trying to humor the trolls (for far longer than I would have) and trying to manage things, and by the end of it, just about everyone believed the trolls and mocking the man.
Dittofor the priest getting saved to no boss -and- getting accused of not doing any healing because Recount shows hims last on heals (uhm, hello? look at last fight healing people, not overall).
Just....GAH!
Horrible group.