TFF Governance

[Llamakid]

I think a backup admin would work, but it would need to be set up by the admin, who would then send half the info to one mod, and half to the other (I.e. Admin makes backup admin account, sends username to one mod, password to other, only to be used if Admin is hit by bus)
While you still have the issue of those two going rogue, or those two disappearing, I still prefer it to the forum imploding if the admin disappears.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

That someone would need to set it up and pass the keys around was kind of obvious, that role would fall to the actual Admin. Basically the Admin would have 'access' to both admin accounts which changes nothing since he has the same amount of power in both so ultimately it's the same as just having one admin. However the purpose of this 'second admin account' is that it serves as a backup one, a sort of failsafe in case the main admin disappears.

 

[Shirotsume]

I dunno. If we did that, we would have to be *very* careful with the keys, and have multiple mods. if any of the mods manages to get ahold of the password, which could be very, very easy dependng on circumstances, they just took over the board from the admin who is still active.

E.G. If we had two mods then they could very quickly oust the admin and take over. If we had multiple mods that risk would be lessened, but very dangerous. I like the spork idea, personally.

I did misunderstand though that you meant it would be for, as GH put it below me, critical existance failure. I thought it was to be part of an admin impeachment type deal- for which we would have to get spork involved anyway unless they abdicated willingly. (lol@chancesofthat)

 

[GenocideHeart]

Admin: One, but that one admin should select someone they trust and let them know the password in the case, Gods forbid, that something happens to him/her. As ugly as it is to think about it, "critical existence failure" does happen, and someone needs to be able to step in in that case. After all, no sane chain of command leaves no space for someone to replace the President.

Mods: Multiple, low. Be careful about letting mods have access to personal rants forums, though. They're kind of... rant-y by definition, so discussions can heat up much more easily there. It's what they're for.

Not that I remember a single time I had to mod a post in my own rant forum... things never got that out of hand. But it's something to keep in mind.

Rotation: no. It would just confuse people. Just have a couple names as backup in case an active mod has to go on extended leave (army, hospital, etc.).

 

[Llamakid]

I dunno. If we did that, we would have to be *very* careful with the keys, and have multiple mods. if any of the mods manages to get ahold of the password, which could be very, very easy dependng on circumstances, they just took over the board from the admin who is still active.

E.G. If we had two mods then they could very quickly oust the admin and take over. If we had multiple mods that risk would be lessened, but very dangerous. I like the spork idea, personally.

Well, from what I've seen, almost everyone agrees that multiple mods would be for the best. We could even split it up even further, giving like half the username to one mod, another half to another, along with half the password to two more mods, or even split it up further. I just really worry that only having one Admin, with no way to have any sort of a backup is a recipe for disaster.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

Multiple is pretty much a given for most people thus far, though admittedly it could swing another way later. However if we do have the means to pass the baton via this higher up unlike the old forum that would be just as ideal, provided as you say he knows only to pass it onto someone we select. Certainly less of a hassle keeping track of multiple keys to a password, particularly if mods change and those keys need to be changed and resent when they do.

 

[Cornuthaum]

Let your wise lord and master, Cornuthaum, speak on this issue, that you may be enlightened:

Admins: Multiples
You may look at me aghast, now, and say "Cornuthaum, raptorious overlord, are you mad?", to which my reply would be to savagely devour you and then educate your fellows: Have we not seen what having only one Admin-tier power can do to a forum, if that admin savagely betrays his forum by just leaving and not coming back? No. Two, at least, ideally three are needed.

Mods: Multiples
Once again you may look at me aghast, and ask "Cornuthaum, raptorious overlord, are you unsound of mind?", to which my reply would be to savagely devour you and educate your clone once it is released from its tank. One mod cannot hope to police any amount of forum, especially one as inherently factional as a Fanfiction Forum. THE Fanfiction Forum, to be precise. It is unavoidable that a mod does not care much about Fandom [x] and much more about fandom [y] and a bit about [z] while another mod would be all over [x] and [ψ] and [ä] instead. Multiple mods serve to ensure that there will be always someone to take care of problems, no matter the fandom.

Modly Powers: High
You, minions, might now shake your fists at me and claim "Cornuthaum, raptorious overlord, you want a fascist police state!", to which my reply would be to hit you on the head, then savagely devour you and educate the huddling masses that remain.
A mod must have the powers to make their word heard and heeded. Castigating the unworthy rabble with their modly powers is, alas, usually the only way to make this clearly understood. If a mod drops in to say X, and then the infractions against the rules of good behavior go on because nobody fears the mod's word, something has gone wrong. Look at SpaceBattles and RPG.net - they're doing it right.

Rotation: Fuck no!
You, dear minions, might look at me in confusion now, my reply to which would be to grant you a ten minute pause from your work in the salt mines that you may listen to my educational words.
A mod's work is akin to herding cats, if the cats were tricksy, sneaky and altogether more depraved than even real cats are. It is a job that requires focus, dedication and wanting to do this. What more, the proper execution of modly duties requires that they build up a certain experience with the tools of their station: as such, rotating them out would counter both of these points, which is therefore why rotation is fucking stupid and should not be implemented.

 

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Admin - One (with the password known by the mods for a 'just in case' situation)

Mods - Few with low power. Voted in with the ability for members to ask for their removal if they feel the mod has stepped out of bounds but otherwise permanent.

 

[Ninsaneja]

Cornuthaum: You said Spacebattles did something right. I'm apalled.

 

[Python453]

Admin:Multiple
Mods: Multiple, Medium
Rotation: No

Some sort of appeal forum would also be a good idea.

 

[ArchfiendRai]

^ LOL @ our raptorious overlord


I was trying to avoid saying it, but critical existence failure was one of my fears for having only one admin. You try not to think of it, but it does happen.

I don't see why Shiro, if he is agreeable, couldn't keep TFF admin as a last resort backup. He would never have to log on, if nothing happened, and continue to be a regular member. If something DID happen, on the other hand, he could fix it. After all, he was the one who put all of this together.

 

[Hardcore Heathen]

I cast my vote for just one Admin. TFF is a Kingdom, and in a proper Kingdom there is only one King.

However, the King will require noble Lords (and possibly Ladies) with which to manage the vast swathes of the Kingdom that might otherwise escape royal purview. Typically such Lords and Ladies are arranged in a hierarchy of their own, and thus I vote that we have multiple moderators of varying authority.

A low-power moderator could be lord of a small fiefdom, such as the General Fanfiction section, or some combination of small subforums. In turn, a medium powered moderator could be a Duke over a larger duchy consisting of the territories of several low-power moderators. Finally, we could have a single high-powered moderator acting as the King's Hand, for instances in which swift, powerful action must be taken but for which the King is absent.

In such a way, efficient moderation could be conducted and I could more easily continue my analogies of the New TFF as a Kingdom, for we would have peerage amongst our nobility.

 

[Nukem]

I'd say at least a second admin.
To have a backup in case something happens to our main admin (accident, losing interest, long vacation, lost account data, ...).

Multiple Mods with medium powers.
Give them their own hidden board in which they can write down why they warned certain people or why they banned them.
So in case someone appeals and the Mod that did it is on vacation the others can look it up.

I'm not sure if a rotation makes sense, i'm undecided there.

 

[Cornuthaum]

Cornuthaum: You said Spacebattles did something right. I'm apalled.

Because they did. Even the querulous masses of Spacebattles hush with terror, awe or both when the mods bring down the hammer... as they do on RPG.net.

When the nice neighbourhood mod breaks out their mod colour and tells you to knock that shit off on either of those boards, people knock that shit off on those boards.

Emulation of what works is the sincerest form of flattery AND a good way to keep your own house in order.

 

[Zephyrus]

Cornuthaum: You said Spacebattles did something right. I'm apalled.

Because they did. Even the querulous masses of Spacebattles hush with terror, awe or both when the mods bring down the hammer... as they do on RPG.net.

When the nice neighbourhood mod breaks out their mod colour and tells you to knock that shit off on either of those boards, people knock that shit off on those boards.

Emulation of what works is the sincerest form of flattery AND a good way to keep your own house in order.

Heed the Raptor's wise words, for his teeth are sharp and his belly empty.

As much as I dislike some of the mods on SB who I feel use their power in childish ways sometimes, I can't deny that it's effective.

For instance, the pony lovers were reigned in (god, the puns. they burn!) when it was discovered that they were posting stuff to the effect of pony porn in what was supposed to be a SFW forum.

I don't mind a powerful mod, so long as they use their powers RESPONSIBLY.

 

[Shirotsume]

^ LOL @ our raptorious overlord


I was trying to avoid saying it, but critical existence failure was one of my fears for having only one admin. You try not to think of it, but it does happen.

I don't see why Shiro, if he is agreeable, couldn't keep TFF admin as a last resort backup. He would never have to log on, if nothing happened, and continue to be a regular member. If something DID happen, on the other hand, he could fix it. After all, he was the one who put all of this together.

I'll post my thoughts on this when it's time to fill in the hierarchy, since it's not relevant till then.

I've had several people tell me they wanted me to stay, many mention that they're voting for me regardless of my stance on adminship, and in one case someone ordered me to stay admin

 

[Scope]

I would suggest that Shirotsume keeps the TTF_Admin account and only use it for emergencies, such as removing content that would have the board destroyed or if there is overwhelming reports about something.

Basically the hands off approach like Hawk did before he abandoned the forums.

Everything else can be handled by the Admin(Preferably one who is active while Shirotsume is sleeping or something) and mods that are voted in. Just make sure that the voted Admin doesn't have enough privilege to effect the TFF_Admin account.

Admin: Two or Three
Reason: Preferably, the Admins will be active during different times of the day for the most coverage so they can handle issues that the mods can not instead of having to wait for hours.

Mods: Multiple, Medium
Reason: A higher number of mods allows for maximum moderator uptime, ensuring there's always someone about to moderate an issue that is reported. Attempt to have mods depending on the threads they frequent so they can catch things faster before it gets out of hand. The mods need to be able to remove offending content or at least hide the post until a ruling can be determined.

Rotation: No
Reason: Good mods can stay mods, and poor mods are voted out.

 

[Garahs]

Admins: Multiple. I'd say 3, not so much as a check against abuse, but more that in case one is out of reach and something is needed.

Mods; Multiple, Low power. As above, I don't expect there to be any big issues, but better safe than sorry.

Rotation: no, just no

Note: I'd recommend no matter what is decided on, all admins/mods should get contact info for our host after they've held their position long enough as a final safety mechanism. That way a route is given, but it won't be abused.

 

[Herdo]

Admins: One

Mods: I want 7 mods with low power

Rotation: Nah

 

[Robo Jesus]

Admins: Multiple (2-3). Shit happens, and sometimes a person may not be available to fix something should it go very wrong, so we need more than one, even if their only real job is just to be a safety net for the site. :shrugs:

Mods; Multiple, HIGH power. Why? Because if someone starts posting pony-porn/twilight-porn outside of the lemon section, or gods forbid they start posting gore or cp, I want the mods to be able to delete their threads/posts and/or ban their asses, depending on the context and needs of the situation.

Rotation: Meh, people will leave the position eventually. Leave it up to them to decide the details on that stuff.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

Admins: Multiple. I still support the Four Corners plan regarding this - four Badmins that mostly do nothing, with one tiebreaker. I suggest Shirotsume for the tiebreaker myself.

Mods: None. We don't need any moderation the admins can't handle.

Mod rotation: Not applicable.

Edit: Supplementary - I'd like to point out that the Badmins shouldn't be doing much moderation either. TFF has been just fine without moderation for years now. Let the Badmins handle only the severe cases (openly, with their activities logged in a publicly viewable part of the forum) and leave everything else alone.

 

[sinewyk]

One admin.

Multiple low moderator (edit: no rotation, just exit<=>enter if bad one or abusive).

Accountable stuff.

And admin backend stuff. moderator hammer down on severe case. Let the forum run itself. The arguments always made me laugh, and it pisses me off in others forum when there's a freaking argument and the ban hammers come down for ... nothing ... like ... the moderator is a child with power.

 

[Wheeljack]

Cornuthaum: You said Spacebattles did something right. I'm apalled.

Because they did. Even the querulous masses of Spacebattles hush with terror, awe or both when the mods bring down the hammer... as they do on RPG.net.

When the nice neighbourhood mod breaks out their mod colour and tells you to knock that shit off on either of those boards, people knock that shit off on those boards.

Emulation of what works is the sincerest form of flattery AND a good way to keep your own house in order.

As much as I like spacebattles, the last thing I want is for TFF to become anything close to how it is, especially in terms of how prudish things have gotten. We've done fine so far with how things are and the last thing I want to see is that messed with. To echo sinewink, let the forum run itself.

Admins: 3. One main, two backup in case the main falls off the face of the earth, like Hawk.

Mods: 3-5, low power.

 

[SotF]

Admin: Multiple
This is mainly due to the entire thing with Hawk pulling a vanishing act. Having a second Admin available would make things easier for continuance if for no other reason, and it makes things work better on the chances of various issues that can pop up. Vacations, injury, and other things that may limit or eliminate their internet connection for a time means we'd probably still need someone able to handle those issues.

Mods: Multiple, Low
I'd propose having at least 3-5 mods for dealing with things. We should be able to have a mod on within a few hours of any time. I'd also say that for situations of more than say 12-24 hours, that would give time to get a group of them together for working out larger punishments if needed. We should probably also have a pool of temporary mods who can be directly rotated in a temporary fillers for mods when multiple ones are out of contact or to fill in if there's an issue with a mod.

Rotation: Yes
Big thing is that with mods, it's difficult to really know if there is a problem with a specific one or if things are a larger issue. A lot of people who have a complaints with a boards leadership tend to keep quiet about it if they aren't sure about those in charge. Having a period where mods could be replaced is something possible, perhaps have a situation where someone can bring up an issue and if another member seconds it, then there would be a vote to replace that mod during which a temp would fill in for the mod until the vote is over. Unless it is a major thing, have a two vote thing, one vote for keeping/ditching that mod and one to replace them.

For the reserve/temporary mods, perhaps adding the second and third from the mod elections to a running list.

 

[Vexarian]

My opinion on two admins: The problem with two admins is that we would have to trust someone to keep the backup admin account safe and sound who has password access to it- you can't change the password without having access. At that point, why not just trust the person with admin?
The next issue with backup admin is with the standard admin- they could just manually change the backup admin's password/email and take it over.
Finally, I'm just going to say that whoever becomes admin... we probably chose them for a reason. After TFF's history, I don't think admin abandonment will be an issue. Regarding acts of god, that's something that we shouldn't try to plan for imo. If nothing else, once the admin is chosen, we could get them to ask spork to see if he would be willing to pass the board onto a member of the boards choice, should the be admin go AWOL. To prevent another nicknumbers attempt, he will only pass it on to a member chosen by the majority.

tl;dr: I'm of the opinion that in it's current state, having and admin and a backup admin is physically just having two admins in the current implementation (a combination password would fail- someone has to SET that master password and then distribute the keys. Also, if mods go AWOL, we've lost the account.) It also allows a sense that one could just abandon their post, because the other admin could pick it up.


Next, how myBB bans work. A "Banned" member on myBB is just a standard user class, like Registered, with custom permissions, typically set to, by default, be able to view all threads, but not post threads, reply in threads, etc.


Finally: regarding backups. icyboards backs up twice a week, and to use that backup is free and will be done for us in the event of Shit Going Down. If we want the physical SQL backup itself, it will cost 20$. Please keep in mind- even if we get the backup, we have to find a host that can use that kind of a database, which is going to cost many, many monies just for importing the database, let alone the hosting. That's why we're on icyboards- they were willing to do it for free just so TFF could have a new home.


Finally: there are crawler bots available on the web. I cannot vouch for their reliability or speed.

I read the thread where you posted your tutorial for the crawler bot procedure, and it seems like it's not actually a possibility should anything go square-shaped. It's restricted by the Icyboards ToS, and would cause an automatic server-side ban due to violating a connections/second limit implemented for security reasons.