Nasuverse The Arrow: Masked Hero of Justice

[Prince Charon]

As long as Shirou doesn't do anything to threaten the secrecy of the mages, I don't think the Mage's Association would do anything. Just look up to the shit Zouken and the-mage-who-would-become-Nero Chaos got up to without the Mage's Association doing anything.

OK, but what about the other questions above?

Might Rin, Sakura, or both be Arrow fangirls?

Would the Arrow use trick arrows, and if so, what sort?

Would Rin summon canon Archer, or a Counter-Guardian version of this Emiya?

Would any of the Masters make plans to deal with the Arrow, before he actually starts interfering?

 

[nick012000]

As long as Shirou doesn't do anything to threaten the secrecy of the mages, I don't think the Mage's Association would do anything. Just look up to the shit Zouken and the-mage-who-would-become-Nero Chaos got up to without the Mage's Association doing anything.

OK, but what about the other questions above?

Might Rin, Sakura, or both be Arrow fangirls?

Would the Arrow use trick arrows, and if so, what sort?

Would Rin summon canon Archer, or a Counter-Guardian version of this Emiya?

Would any of the Masters make plans to deal with the Arrow, before he actually starts interfering?

Sakura probably would be, for much the same reason she's got a crush on Shirou. I dunno whether Rin might be; what's-her-name from the Archery Club might be, though.

As for trick arrows, well, if he does, they're probably enhanced by low-level Reinforcement or Alteration magic. Or both, for that matter. They'd just be subtle enough that the magic isn't obvious to casual observers.

As for Archer, well, that'd depend on the author, I suppose, but the lulz of Archer going "Wait, I was never like that! Dammit, my plan to erase myself from existence is ruined!" would be amusing.

As for the other Masters... well, Shirou might get a visit from Lancer earlier than canon. I don't think the other Masters would, unless Shinji has reason to think that The Arrow has reason to know of how he's been raping his sister.

 

[Prince Charon]

As for the other Masters... well, Shirou might get a visit from Lancer earlier than canon. I don't think the other Masters would, unless Shinji has reason to think that The Arrow has reason to know of how he's been raping his sister.

I wonder, what if Shirou, being more perceptive and generally detective-like than in canon, realized that something was up with Sakura, and investigated? Thus, the Arrow caught Shinji in the act, and killed him in a fit of rage and horror at this betrayal of Sakura's trust and love.

How would Zouken respond to this? Could Shirou kill Zouken at this time?

 

[Kibbles]

How would Zouken respond to this? Could Shirou kill Zouken at this time?

Judging by his personality ... mild annoyance? He doesn't care much for Shinji in the first place. It might drive him into summoning Assassin and getting involved in the festivities, though. Even if he looses immediate access to Sakura, there's still the control mechanism present.

As for killing him, well, that's actually quite difficult seeing as you either need someone who can move souls about (which doesn't happen in-universe much, though IIRC Ilya has demonstrated the ability) or a cardio-surgeon. You can kill his body, easily enough, sure, but he'll just regenerate (by eating someone).

I'm working from memory here, but I believe that you need to hit the soul, kill the body and take out the worms at the same time to permanently take him out. Doing two out of three ... and he's still alive right up until Ilya talks him into giving up.

Seeing as we're talking super-hero here, Zouken could be the super-villain. A Joker to Shirou's Batman.

 

[Cherry_lover]

He was dead in HF even before Ilya turned up. He just hadn't accepted it yet. Once Kotomine took out his body (most likely along with the rest of his worms), his only chance for long-term survival was Sakura. Once she crushed his worm too, he managed to transfer himself to some new ones, but at that point he was just a blob of flesh, unable to even move without extreme agony. If Ilya hadn't shown up, he'd have just died painfully over the course of the next few days.

It may well be possible for Shirou, with his abilities, to kill Zouken if he knew the truth. Specifically, the effects of Rule Breaker on him are unknown, but there's at least a chance that it would kill him, or at least free Sakura from his grasp. Once Sakura is free, you just have to keep killing him and squishing his worms until he runs out of prana, which isn't actually that hard.

 

[Kibbles]

First off, welcome.

Second off, well, I'm working from memory here so I might not be right. If I'm wrong on anything, feel free to point it out. It's been awhile.

He was dead in HF even before Ilya turned up. He just hadn't accepted it yet. Once Kotomine took out his body (most likely along with the rest of his worms), his only chance for long-term survival was Sakura. Once she crushed his worm too, he managed to transfer himself to some new ones, but at that point he was just a blob of flesh, unable to even move without extreme agony. If Ilya hadn't shown up, he'd have just died painfully over the course of the next few days.

The point is, blob or not, Zouken was alive. Sort of. It's possible he lacked the material to rebuild his body. Remember that the first time he got offed he used his worms to eat a passerby. Well, that or convert it a new body for himself. The game wasn't exactly clear on that point.

It's also important to note that the damage Kotomine did wasn't physical as Zouken could get a new body easily enough, but it was spiritual. That prayer thing? IIRC, Zouken comments that if his soul had been in his body, he'd be dead on the spot and not because of the physical damage.

It may well be possible for Shirou, with his abilities, to kill Zouken if he knew the truth. Specifically, the effects of Rule Breaker on him are unknown, but there's at least a chance that it would kill him, or at least free Sakura from his grasp. Once Sakura is free, you just have to keep killing him and squishing his worms until he runs out of prana, which isn't actually that hard.

IIRC, again, Rule Breaker breaks contracts. That's it. It can end Sakura's connection to the Grail or the connection between Servant and Master or mage and familiar since they're contracts, but Zouken's crest worms don't work like that. There's no contract to break so Rule Breaker is just a plain, unwieldy dagger.

Killing him isn't the real problem, though. As you said, it's easy enough. Just keep killing him until he gives up. The problem is Sakura, if you're a moral sort (not so much if you're willing to let her die). Zouken's control is essentially a loaded gun pointed at her head. It needs to be removed before you do anything and heart surgery or moving souls aren't that common skills.

 

[RJL333]

According to the type-moon wiki it 'possesses the unique ability of dispelling any sorcery cast upon a pierced target. Once it has made contact with an ensorcelled item or person, it reduces enchantments, sorcerous contracts, and spiritual bodies to their component materials.'

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_Breaker

Depending on the nature of the worms it should be able to destroy them.

 

[Kibbles]

According to the type-moon wiki it 'possesses the unique ability of dispelling any sorcery cast upon a pierced target. Once it has made contact with an ensorcelled item or person, it reduces enchantments, sorcerous contracts, and spiritual bodies to their component materials.'

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_Breaker

Depending on the nature of the worms it should be able to destroy them.

Well, I guess my memory is going. No surprise there, it's been going for a long time now.

And, going by that description, yes. It most certainly would be able to kill the crest worms. They are a form of magic and should be destroyed by the dagger. Not so sure what would happen to Zouken's soul in the process, but it would most probably go away since two souls can't be in the same body.

Then again, the question is where would Shirou see Rule Breaker? Since he can only project the noble phantasms he's seen ...

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

 

[Prince Charon]

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

The only plausible answer I can think of (other than Gil using it during a fight) is 'Look how much cooler my toys are than yours.'

 

[nick012000]

Archer might or might not have it. He might well be able to see Caster use it, as well, once the Holy Grail War starts in earnest.

 

[firestorm]

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

The only plausible answer I can think of (other than Gil using it during a fight) is 'Look how much cooler my toys are than yours.'

Given Gil's personality in F/SN, I wouldn't put it past him.

 

[MastaofBitches]

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

The only plausible answer I can think of (other than Gil using it during a fight) is 'Look how much cooler my toys are than yours.'

Given Gil's personality in F/SN, I wouldn't put it past him.

I wouldn't put it past his to use those exact words.

 

[firestorm]

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

The only plausible answer I can think of (other than Gil using it during a fight) is 'Look how much cooler my toys are than yours.'

Given Gil's personality in F/SN, I wouldn't put it past him.

I wouldn't put it past his to use those exact words.

Those exact words sound more like what Kid Gil would say...

Gilgamesh would be all like "Look upon my collection, mongrel, and know that your treasures shall forever be inferior to mine!"

 

[MastaofBitches]

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

The only plausible answer I can think of (other than Gil using it during a fight) is 'Look how much cooler my toys are than yours.'

Given Gil's personality in F/SN, I wouldn't put it past him.

I wouldn't put it past his to use those exact words.

Those exact words sound more like what Kid Gil would say...

Gilgamesh would be all like "Look upon my collection, mongrel, and know that your treasures shall forever be inferior to mine!"

I'm not seeing much of a difference.

 

[firestorm]

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

The only plausible answer I can think of (other than Gil using it during a fight) is 'Look how much cooler my toys are than yours.'

Given Gil's personality in F/SN, I wouldn't put it past him.

I wouldn't put it past his to use those exact words.

Those exact words sound more like what Kid Gil would say...

Gilgamesh would be all like "Look upon my collection, mongrel, and know that your treasures shall forever be inferior to mine!"

I'm not seeing much of a difference.

Gil talks fancier then Kid Gil.

 

[MastaofBitches]

Hurrm, thinking about it, Gilgamesh is around and he does have the originals of all the weapons of legend at his beck and call. He probably has Rule Breaker's original version somewhere in that vault of his. He could show it to Shirou, but motivation is a bit of an issue.

The only plausible answer I can think of (other than Gil using it during a fight) is 'Look how much cooler my toys are than yours.'

Given Gil's personality in F/SN, I wouldn't put it past him.

I wouldn't put it past his to use those exact words.

Those exact words sound more like what Kid Gil would say...

Gilgamesh would be all like "Look upon my collection, mongrel, and know that your treasures shall forever be inferior to mine!"

I'm not seeing much of a difference.

Gil talks fancier then Kid Gil.

Still pretty much the same thing though.

Although, watching a 10-Year old Gil utterly own all the others servants would be most amusing.

 

[Cherry_lover]

First off, welcome.

Thanks.

The point is, blob or not, Zouken was alive. Sort of. It's possible he lacked the material to rebuild his body. Remember that the first time he got offed he used his worms to eat a passerby. Well, that or convert it a new body for himself. The game wasn't exactly clear on that point.

Well, yeah. But, he was effectively dead. The damage caused by Sakura, and in particular his lack of prana, meant that there was simply no way for him to regenerate. All Ilya did was get him to finally accept his own death.

It's also important to note that the damage Kotomine did wasn't physical as Zouken could get a new body easily enough, but it was spiritual. That prayer thing? IIRC, Zouken comments that if his soul had been in his body, he'd be dead on the spot and not because of the physical damage.

Kotomine exorcised him. Since he's effectively undead, it would kill him, except thsat his soul wasn't in the body being exorcised, so the body just vanished instead.

IIRC, again, Rule Breaker breaks contracts. That's it. It can end Sakura's connection to the Grail or the connection between Servant and Master or mage and familiar since they're contracts, but Zouken's crest worms don't work like that. There's no contract to break so Rule Breaker is just a plain, unwieldy dagger.

No, it doesn't. Rule Breaker nullfies any magic. I see this has already been pointed out, though, so....

Killing him isn't the real problem, though. As you said, it's easy enough. Just keep killing him until he gives up. The problem is Sakura, if you're a moral sort (not so much if you're willing to let her die). Zouken's control is essentially a loaded gun pointed at her head. It needs to be removed before you do anything and heart surgery or moving souls aren't that common skills.

Yeah, exactly. Killing Zouken is easy. Killing him without letting Sakura die (or even outright killing her yourself) isn't. Given that Shirou here is a superhero (and probably knows her), I doubt he'd want to do that. So, he needs to find some way to get rid of Zouken's corruption of her.

And, going by that description, yes. It most certainly would be able to kill the crest worms. They are a form of magic and should be destroyed by the dagger. Not so sure what would happen to Zouken's soul in the process, but it would most probably go away since two souls can't be in the same body.

The only issue is that, to do so, you'd probably have to hit the control worm, buried within her heart. The Crest Worms themselves have no direct connection to Sakura, and so stabbing any individual one would just kill that particular worm.

Then again, the question is where would Shirou see Rule Breaker? Since he can only project the noble phantasms he's seen ...

In this story, he probably wouldn't, TBH.

 

[nick012000]

Once she went Dark Sakura in Heaven's Feel, hitting her with Rule Breaker turned her back to normal, though I think the worms were still alive inside her since, IIRC, she still had purple hair in the epilogue.

 

[Cherry_lover]

Once she went Dark Sakura in Heaven's Feel, hitting her with Rule Breaker turned her back to normal, though I think the worms were still alive inside her since, IIRC, she still had purple hair in the epilogue.

They shouldn't be, because Kotomine removed all of them except for the one in her heart mid-way through the route, and she removed that when she squished Zouken.

Her hair colour change was caused by Zouken's fiddling with her body (to convert her from a Tohsaka magus into a Matou one). Whilst the worms were (presumably) used to achieve this, the effects are irreversible (or, at least, not easily reversible) once the change has been made. Sakura will always have purple hair, no matter whether the worms are still inside her or not.

And, yeah, Rule Breaker did indeed turn her back to normal once she turned Dark, because it broke her contract with Angra Mainyu. However, I was talking about killing Zouken with it, without her turning into Dark Sakura first. That is a totally different thing, which has nothing whatsoever to do with what happened in HF.

 

[MastaofBitches]

11 year old Emiya Shirou stood outside the Archery range, his bow clutched tightly in one hand as he gazed across the playground, towards the group of older kids that seemed to be bullying a young girl with black hair.

Slowly, he notched an arrow; it was blunt of course, but reinforced through his own meagre magical talent to allow for more damage.

Pulling back on the string, he zeroed in on the one most likely to be the leader, and released his hold on the string, sending the arrow flying across the, admittedly small distance between them striking the eldest of the group in the forehead, knocking him off his feet.

At that moment everybodyÆs eyes were on him, as he slowly notched another arrow, ready to fire at a moments notice.

That seemed to get his message across, as the group turned and ran, leaving their leader behind.

ôThank you.ö It was so soft, he first thought he was hearing things, but a quick glance confirmed the young girl who was being harassed who had thanked him.

ôItÆs no problem.ö He replied, a small smile making its way onto his face.

ôIÆm Rin. Tohsaka Rin.ö She introduced herself, sticking her hand out in greeting.

ôShirou. Emiya Shirou.ö He responded, taking the offered hand.

 

[nick012000]

Once she went Dark Sakura in Heaven's Feel, hitting her with Rule Breaker turned her back to normal, though I think the worms were still alive inside her since, IIRC, she still had purple hair in the epilogue.

They shouldn't be, because Kotomine removed all of them except for the one in her heart mid-way through the route, and she removed that when she squished Zouken.

Her hair colour change was caused by Zouken's fiddling with her body (to convert her from a Tohsaka magus into a Matou one). Whilst the worms were (presumably) used to achieve this, the effects are irreversible (or, at least, not easily reversible) once the change has been made. Sakura will always have purple hair, no matter whether the worms are still inside her or not.

And, yeah, Rule Breaker did indeed turn her back to normal once she turned Dark, because it broke her contract with Angra Mainyu. However, I was talking about killing Zouken with it, without her turning into Dark Sakura first. That is a totally different thing, which has nothing whatsoever to do with what happened in HF.

A bit late of a response, but oh well.

IIRC, Kotomine says that he removed all of the worms he could without killing her, and then specifically mentions the one in her heart. This means that afterwards, there might be worms left that weren't in her heart, but were still in potentially fatal locations, like her spinal cord, her brain, or the nerves attached to her diaphragm or similar vital organs.

 

[Kai-]

Yeah, he says he does all that he could do, but there are others attached to the heart and her nerves (nerves is pretty vague tbh). [<a href='http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2463/fsn1.png' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>1</a>] [<a href='http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1589/fsn2.png' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>2</a>]. The scene in question is shortly after the mind of steel choice on day 9.

 

[Prince Charon]

ôIÆm Rin. Tohsaka Rin.ö She introduced herself, sticking her hand out in greeting.

ôShirou. Emiya Shirou.ö He responded, taking the offered hand.

Interesting prologue, that. Their relationship should become closer here than in canon, I think.

I wonder if they'll save Sakura before the Grail War starts.

 

[MastaofBitches]

All depends on what Rin tells Shirou, after all she doesnt know that he can use magic, and he doesnt know she can either.

Besides, I just wrote what came to mind, a piece of a possible prologue but not one I plan on writing, I have my own fics to finish up first.

 

[Cherry_lover]

IIRC, Kotomine says that he removed all of the worms he could without killing her, and then specifically mentions the one in her heart. This means that afterwards, there might be worms left that weren't in her heart, but were still in potentially fatal locations, like her spinal cord, her brain, or the nerves attached to her diaphragm or similar vital organs.

However, the epilogue (in particular, HF Normal) quite clearly states that the worms are now gone from her body, and that she is free of the constant irritation that they cause her.

Also, that link posted clearly states that he could remove it all if he were to remove her heart, implying that the only bit left was Zouken's soul worm and, perhaps, some other bits immediately surrounding it.