Nasuverse The Magnificent 7

[daniel_gudman]

In the fine spirit of stupid internet debates, who do you think would be the absolute best hero summon for any given class? We know from Assassin that the servant didn't have to actually exist to be summoned, as long as they were believed in.

So... strongest/ best possible servant. I'll try to stick with anime, but feel free to pull in, like, real people or something.

I say:

Saber: Gatts? Claire? I bet GenocideHeart will tell us why Claire is the better choice. There's like a gazillion swordsmen in anime, so who knows.

Archer: Zero (of the Quadruple Super-fast Guns). With a name like that... who else could compete?

Lancer: Kazuki Muto from Busou Renkin? Who else uses a pointy?

Berserker: Gatts? Who could out-crazy Gatts?

Rider: Kaimen Rider. Come'on, it's in the name. Perfect servant for Shirou. Plus a synchronized "Rider Punch!" would be way better than anything he ever did with Saber (no offense Saber).

Caster: Dark Schneider. I thought he was pretty one-dimensional, but he'd be hard to top. Wait, did I just make a pun?

Assassin: Ogami Itto, from Lone Wolf and Cub. It's old, so you might not have seen it, but it was tremendously badass.

And, of course, the Red-Headed Step-child of Servants,

Avenger: Uchiha Sasuke. No, really. It's hard to find a redder-headed step child, and anyway he flat-out said he was an Avenger that one time.

So, anyway, what do you fine folks think?

 

[SoulGriever13]

first choice/second choice/etc


Saber: Kain (LoK)

Rider: Johnny Blaze (Ghost Rider)

Archer: Tendo Rushuna (Grenadier)

Lancer: Lust (FMA)

Berserker: Takatsuki Ryo (Project ARMS) in Jabberwock Mode

Caster: John Constantine (Hellblazer)

Assassin: Manji (Blade of the Immortal)

and

Avenger: Eric Draven (The Crow)

-Griever

 

[Grunt]

hmm, let's see

Saber: Rand Al'Thor (WoT)

Rider: Ashen Shugar (Rift War)

Archer: Train Heartnet (Black Cat)

Lancer: Kimahri (FFX)

Berserker: Kratos (God of War)

Caster: Lezard Valeth (Valkyrie Profile)

Assassin: Guts (Berserk) What? :unsure!:

and

Avenger: Batman (Batman) :rofl:

 

[Prince Charon]

Random thought: Matou Sakura summons Caster!Dark Schneider. Think about it.

 

[ttestagr]

I'm nitpicking, but Assassin actually did exist. Sasaki Kojirou just wasn't his name. He was an actual eirei who assumed a famous fictional name.


The top actual Servants though, is pretty set.

Arturia Pendragon for Saber

Gilgamesh for Archer (though Herakles can also be debated.)

Iskander for Rider

Assassin can't really be rated since the specifics of each are completely unknown.

C? Chulainn is one of three choices for Lancer, the other two I assume are Odin and Lu Bu. Before people start complaining that Odin was a god, remember that Gungnir would be his NP and is present. Considering how mortal the Norse gods were in legend and how many eirei are partial divinity, Odin being one is very possible.

Herakles makes a case for Berserker, but from their legends, Achilles would be better suited to the class.

Merlin would be a pretty strong case for Caster, except we have no idea what happened to him or if he would have been able to become an eirei.

 

[tungsten]

I don't know that it would be the most powerful, exactly, but...


Saber - Leonardo (TMNT)

Rider - Gizmoduck OR Arthur Fonzarelli (Couldn't decide)

Archer - Dead Eye Duck (Bucky O'Hare)

Assassin - Reborn (Kateikyoshi Hitman reborn)

Lancer - Blue Ranger/Billy (Mighty Morphin Power Rangers)

Berserker - Norman (Mighty Max)

Caster - The Sorceress (He-Man and the Masters of the Universe)

Avenger - Stewie Griffin (Family Guy)



Okay, I suppose that's more of a crack version, though it would still be my preferred choice.

Failing that, most powerful...


Saber - Hiko Seijuro (Rurouni Kenshin - I forget his number, but Kenshin's master)

Rider - Tony Stark/Iron man (Marvel)

Archer - Rip Van Winkle (Hellsing)

Assassin - Grey Fox/Cyborg Ninja (Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes)

Lancer - Cid (FF7)

Berserker - Bruce Banner/Hulk (Marvel) (alternatively, Doomsday, from DC)

Caster - Luna Inverse (or alternatively, Louise the Zero)

Avenger - Batman again, but not Bruce Wayne. I'm talking about the anarchist Batman from the Red Son elseworlds Superman comic.

 

[shout27]

I wonder if the 'Tainted Grail' could even summon these guys. . .

Saber - David

Rider - Levi

Archer - Joseph

Assassin - Angel of Death

Lancer - Israel

Berserker - Samson

'Caster' - Moses

 

[sigfried27]

• Archer - Servant type with low base stats but made up by skills and Noble Phantasms.
  
  
  
  
  
• Assassin - Servant type that can only be one of the 19 different Hassans. Each has a different Zabaniya NP (which had been secret techniques each concealed in order to use against each other). Also, none of them (probably) have any sort of face behind their masks. Basically a Servant type that is only effective in kiling Masters and not Servants.
  
  
  
  
  
• Avenger - Servant type created only for summoning Angra Mainyu.
  
  
  
  
  
• Berserker - Servant type specialized just in destruction through rage. Grants powers that surpass what one had during life through Mad Enhancement in exchange for loss of sanity. Basic stat requirements are low. Even a hero with all status at rank E can qualify as long as a certain condition is met. A class that is meant to be used to augment lesser Heroic Spirits. Power requirements for materializing Berserkers are several levels higher than other Servants, and do to inability to properly control (and command them to dematerialize) them, Berserkers have always exhausted the Prana of the Master, thus destroying themselves. (And no, the notion that they're a lousy class because they end up turning on their Masters is incorrect).
  
  
  
  
  
• Caster - Servant type specialized in MGI. The weakest of the Servants.
  
  
  
  
  
• Lancer - Servant type demanding extremely high AGI and excellent close-combat ability.
  
  
  
  
  
• Rider - Servant type demanding high mobility. Possesses a powerful Noble Phantasm. Normally doesn't have as many skills and powers as the 5th Rider.
  
  
  
  
  
• Saber - Servant type in which all stats must be no less than standard, excluding MGI, in order to qualify.
  
  
  

Servant class is not determined by weaponry or things like how "Assassin like" or "wanting revenge" a hero is. it is largely determined by stats or events that occured in their lifetime/legend.

Assassin can only be a member of the Hassan order. 5th war assassin is an exception, but does not set a standard. He is a bit of an odd case anyways because he was summoned by a servant.

Avenger is for Angra Mainyu...that's it...

Don't know about a number of the Berserkers listed, but unless there has been what is essentially a complete mental breakdown in their life, then they will not become a Berserker

Most other classes in this thread seem to have been chosen based on weaponry, which does not determine what class one will be summoned as. Stats are hard to gauge in crossovers, since we are given stats for FSN characters, but have no way of judging for crossover characters, but I doubt that a lot of the listed characters can really be described as extremely high in any given stat, especially on the unnatural level of a servant.

 

[JiigarGhen]

Mh...as interesting as some of the suggestions might be, I would have to agree with sigfried. Given that the Servants are, quite literally, legends, if you want to change who the Servants are for whatever reason, you really have to use legendary characters. For instance...

Saber- Roland, from the Song of Roland. Or perhaps Beowulf, from, of course, Beowulf.

Berserker- Hmm...you know, if I remember my legends right, couldn't C· Chulainn count for this class? I seem to recall him going insane for a while....

Lancer- The Monkey King, perhaps? Not sure if the Grail extends to Eastern heroes, but...he matches the type, agile, good at close-combat.

Archer- Lugh Lßmhfhada, from Irish mythology. Doesn't seem to be all that strong, but is skilled in many weapons, so he seems to match the Archer subtype.

 

[ttestagr]

The Throne of Heroes contains pretty much all legendary earthling heroes and those who made contracts to become Counter Guardians. It's why Arcueid and other True Ancestors don't aply, they're based after Type Moon.

 

[Fatuous One]

Berserker- Hmm...you know, if I remember my legends right, couldn't C? Chulainn count for this class? I seem to recall him going insane for a while....

Yes, Lancer even says that he could have been a Berserker in-game.

...Cu Chulainn and his famous Warp Spasms.

 

[Ray]

Berserker: Gatts? Who could out-crazy Gatts?

Rofl.

I just have to post this.

Seriously, dude, do you know nothing of anime? Of life? Now, I dunno if he's eligible for Servanthood, being a vampire, and all, but there is someone who could out-crazy Gatts. Someone who, in fact, leaves Gatts looking like a fucking gay-ass pansy in a pink suit.

His name...

...is Alucard.

'Nuff said.

 

[JiigarGhen]

Alucard kinda already IS a Servant, though. Just not in the Grail Wars sense. That being said, if Alucard could become a Servant, what would he be? I don't think he exactly counts as insane enough to be a Berserker, as he's still rational...

 

[Cornuthaum]

Random thought: Matou Sakura summons Caster!Dark Schneider. Think about it.

Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies, Dark Schneider Laughs His Ass Off.

"Sakura? I need that prana.... so, RAPE-TIME!" - Don't tell me he wouldn't do it, I got the damn series standing next to me and Darsh -repeatedly- seduces clearly unwilling women (at least, in the beginning they are ...)

My suggestions, since strength is largely defined by your own view of the character. Whom I'd take as [servant class], had I to choose for myself.

Archer: Heracles, Son of Zeus; Do not forget that he does qualify for every servant class but Caster (and, obviously, Assassin). Plus, I want to see how non-Berserker Heracles wielding
Assassin: Hassan #?. Pick one, make stabby time.
Berserker: Ajax, Son of Telamon aka Ajax the Great; Homer's Illiad. I cannot stand Achilles and Hector is not prone to rage. Ajax, otoh, is.
Caster: *see Lancer*
Lancer: *still thinking. do not know lance-users and I wish to avoid using the same mythology cycle twice*
Rider: *see Lancer*
Saber: Siegfried von Xanten, his Nibelungenlied incarnation (as it is the one I am most comfortable with); Balmung might be inferior to Gil's arsenal, but Siegfried is invulnerable to anything but a minor sweet spot.

 

[ttestagr]

Cornuthaum, don't forget modern magi for caster. Should he ever actually die, I dont' think there is a chance in hell Zelretch doesn't end up in the Throne. And weakest class or not, he omgwtfpwns most Servants.


PS: Why the hate for Achilles?

 

[JiigarGhen]

Well, I don't really like Achilles because he's an ass in the original legends...

 

[toraneko]

If the Grail War is still taking place on Japanese soil, I'd pray to get Miyamoto Musashi as Saber. I'm pretty sure he meets all qualifications, and the Fame boost would put him up at the top level.
Mind you, I dunno what Noble Phantasms he'd have - if, indeed, he even had any - but Kojiro proved that you don't necessarily have to have one to be friggin' powerful.

Otherwise, Siegfried.

Berserker: Achilles. Yes, he was a dick. However, I wouldn't exactly have to deal with his personality if he's Berserker.
The whole "invulnerable except in my heel" bit would most certainly even block Gae Bolg's timehax. I like that.

Caster: I would pray to not get a Caster. I probably wouldn't be able to use them right.
If I did, though, I'd go with either Lina Inverse or Dark Schneider (though, in either case, the prana drain would likely kill me). Mind you, I'm not sure Darshu wouldn't be disqualified, on the same grounds as Arcueid.
If a more "real" hero is required, Merlin - if only to see what Arturia would do in response.

Lancer: Cu Chulainn would've been my pick too. Failing that, Zhao Yun Zilong.

Rider: Lu Bu.

Archer: I have no idea.

 

[JiigarGhen]

Hmm....do Berserkers lose the ability to use Noble Phantasms upon becoming a Berserker? I seem to remember Hercules having that Nine Lives bow Phantasm, but he couldn't use it because it was too complicated for him....though for that matter, what Phantasms would Achilles have? He has the badass armor and shield his mom got Hephaestus to forge for him, at least.

 

[toraneko]

Well, he'd also have the invulnerable (or, since this is Kinoko World, near-invulnerable) skin. I forget whether the Iliad used the myth of Achilles being dipped in the River Styx, or the one where he was held in a sacred flame.

Either way, if Herakles' God Hand: The Twelve Labors counts as a Noble Phantasm (it does), then Achilles' invulnerable skin would be likewise. I see it as being A+ rank divine protection (in either myth, Achilles received it from a god).

I don't know what kind of Noble Phantasms a Servant can't use with Mad Enhancement active. It seems that NPs with an "automatic" or "always active" element can still be used - Herakles' skin, for one, and also Lancelot's "anything I wield is a Noble Phantasm" hax are both "automatic" things.

 

[okais]

For more serious lineup though not sure if the heroes really match their classes.

Assassin- Alta?r Ibn La-Ahad (Assassin's Creed)

Berserker- Egil One-Hand (Norse berserker hero)

Lancer- Yue Fei (a Legendary Chinese general during the Song dynasty, a spear wielder and expert in martial arts)

Saber- Hua Mulan (if you dont recognize the name, i m sure u know her story from disney 's Mulan. Though this is from history not the cartoon)

Caster- Morgan le Fay

Archer- Robin Hood

Rider- Ghengis Khan :evil2:

More crack heroes.

Archer:O'Shaserra or her name by human terms Commander Shadowsun, a tau commander.

Berserker: Does Kharn the Betrayer technically fit the role as Beserker in Fate/StayNight?

 

[JiigarGhen]

Well, he'd also have the invulnerable (or, since this is Kinoko World, near-invulnerable) skin. I forget whether the Iliad used the myth of Achilles being dipped in the River Styx, or the one where he was held in a sacred flame.

Either way, if Herakles' God Hand: The Twelve Labors counts as a Noble Phantasm (it does), then Achilles' invulnerable skin would be likewise. I see it as being A+ rank divine protection (in either myth, Achilles received it from a god).

I don't know what kind of Noble Phantasms a Servant can't use with Mad Enhancement active. It seems that NPs with an "automatic" or "always active" element can still be used - Herakles' skin, for one, and also Lancelot's "anything I wield is a Noble Phantasm" hax are both "automatic" things.

I'm not quite sure if it's ever explicitly said, but I think the reason Heracles can no longer use the Nine Lives is supposedly because he doesn't have the manual dexterity anymore....I guess that means he'd pull too hard and break the bow? -_-

Stuff like armor and spears, though, I'd say Berserkers could still use them. It's just that Heracles doesn't really NEED armor.

And I believe the original Achilles myth has him being dipped into the Styx for his uberhax skin.

 

[Cornuthaum]

He'd be a soak-oriented servant, then, who wins because you can'T get PAST that friggen armor while his no-name NP dices you bit by bid.

And why I hate Achilles? He is a selfish, arrogant, murderous hedonist who lets his fellows die and only comes out to fight after his unending arrogance sends his best friend/lover to his death.

But all of that isn't that bad, really. It's good form for someone of his stature.

No, what has earned my ever-lasting ire is the defacing of the corpse of Hector, the very same Hector he could only defeat because THE GODS INTERVENED ON HIS BEHALF, emphasis for how hollow I think Achilles' victory was.

Forcing a broken, old man to grovel at your knees, begging for the right to grant his beloved son the rites of burial?

It is this moment that makes me hate Achilles with every fiber of my being.

Fixing my little list...

Archer: David, Second King of Israel. Beware of his Noble Phantasm: Five-fold Stoning, the divine slingshot.

Assassin: Hassan #?. Pick one, make stabby time.

Berserker: Ajax, Son of Telamon aka Ajax the Great; Homer's Illiad. I cannot stand Achilles and Hector is not prone to rage. Ajax, otoh, is. He slew himself after a fit of red rage (because killing sheep, apparently, is not manly)

Caster: Albus PWB Dumbledore. Because I agree that the good of the many justifies sacrifing both individual rights and the good of the few.

Lancer: Still out of ideas. I am not into high-speed high-agi types, I'm either all for ranged supremacy or the ability to soak any damage and then 'bash em.

Rider: *see Lancer* Mobility and me do not agree.

Saber: Siegfried von Xanten, his Nibelungenlied incarnation (as it is the one I am most comfortable with); Balmung might be inferior to Gil's arsenal, but Siegfried is invulnerable to anything but a minor sweet spot.

 

[JiigarGhen]

Hmm....you know? What about the Black Knight from Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance? He'd make a pretty impressive Saber, I think. Course, his Noble Phantasms would be even more annoyingly tough than Heracles' immortality, but...

EDIT: Or for that matter, Ashnard would probably make a SCARY Berserker.

 

[daniel_gudman]

Whenever people talk about "who could be summoned as a servant," someone talks about the rules as set forth by Type Moon, typically shown on Fuyuki-wiki.

However, let's look at the seven servents from the game.

Saber: Summoned by pseudo-magi, on accident, because Shirou happened to have an artifact associated with her.

Archer: Not actually dead. Also from a parallel universe.

Lancer: Summon-jacked. By designated judge of the War.

Berserker: Okay, he pretty much followed the rules. But he was summoned by a loli-homunculi made out of sperm. She more than recovers the "what!?" factor.

Rider: Regardless of what we mean by "hero," she wasn't even a human. Anyway, she was summon-jacked by a kid who didn't have any actual magic power.

Assassin: Not a Hassin. Summoned by another Servant. Possibly not a Real Boy.

Caster: Summoned by non-magician.

Avenger: A completely made up class for summoning a peasant from way back in the day that was a human sacrifice. (Maybe he wasn't in the game but a sequel is close enough).

So in the fifth war, we see a lot of unskilled summoners calling forth Servants who can't technically be summoned into their class.

I tend to the line of thought that these "rules" are at best loose guidelines, and that as long as someone can be kind of matched with the corresponding servant motif, it's all good. Plus "stats" are a pretty crappy way to actually describe someone's ability, especially since they also seem to be dependent on how well they were summoned or how skilled their summoner was and stuff.

For example, everyone talks about how summons have to be Hassins. Well, okay, but the Assassin summoned for the Fifth wasn't a Hassin. Even if Medea was a super-sorceress, it's still a breakable rule. That seems to be a theme: yeah there are rules for who can be summoned where, but those rules are breakable.

Also we see unskilled masters summoning high level-servants; I don't care how much of a prodigy they are, I just don't think a high-school student would have enough job experience to really be a skilled Magus.

So. Actual People who Actually Existed.

Saber: There are a lot of historically good swordfighters, so let's top the King of Knights with the Scourge of God. That's right, boys and girls, Attila the Hun.

Archer: Mikhail Kalishnakov. Russian infantryman during WWII. He invented a gun that bears his name, the Avtomat Kalishnakova model 1947. AK-47. Maybe his "stats" wouldn't be good but inventing the most universally deployed gun of all time would give him a really, really good NP.

Lancer: Arjuna from the Mahabarata, the Indian epic poem. His special power was not dying unless he wanted to (for reals). Also he killed alot of people, like a 100 in one go.

Berserker: Egill Skallagrimsson. He was an anti-hero in Norse poetry. Think about that: he was an anti-hero for vikings. Anyway one of his achievements was winning a duel by biting out the other bloke's jugular.

Caster: Xuanzing (various spellings). The hero of "Journey to the West," the famous Chinese story. He was a monk who journeyed from China to India to retrieve original Buddhist scriptures. In addition to the typical barriers and purification of monks, he was a skilled martial artist. Also sometimes he has a stick that can get really, really long. And breathe fire.

Rider: James Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan. The Commander of the Light Brigade. That's The Light Brigade from the Crimean War, on the English side.

Assassin: Hassin-i-Sabah, founder of the Hashshashin extremest sect of Shia Islam. The word "assassin" comes from his group. They were pretty hardcore.

Avenger: Enkidu. You know, Gilgamesh's BFF.

So yeah, my take on Real Peeps.

 

[toraneko]

Berserker: Does Kharn the Betrayer technically fit the role as Beserker in Fate/StayNight?

OH FUCK.

EMIYA!Archer already proved that time means nothing to the Throne of Heroes. 38 milennia beyond the current timeframe wouldn't make a difference. It might be possible.

Still, I'm not sure if someone so heavily immersed in the Warp as Chaos Space Marines could be summoned. They're hardly human in anything but shape anymore.

If it is possible, though, Kharn will wreck shit all over... likely right after killing his Master. They don't call him Kharn the Betrayer for nothing, after all.