Naruto The naruto ninja as Yakuza

[kingdark]

I got this idea from reading a hp story. No this is not a crossover so put your fears a rest.

The Naruto ninja are very... How do I say this? They aren't very ninja like. That's old news but still.

I need help finetuning this idea because it's very vague to be honest.

Now, I don't know if this should be in a more modern setting or not, or if it should be in 'our' earth or Naruto world because of location and plot.

Anyway, the Hokage would be the boss that is the richest, smartest and the most powerful. The other ninja form small 'families' of their own.

And I'm not talking about blood relating family or character a adopts character b no. I'm talking about smaller criminal families. Each are competing against each other and while deaths usually don't happen and are actively discouraged they still happen.

If the Hokage is challenged and his power over konoha then all smaller families will temporarily drop their problems with each other. Disloyalty and possible betrayal are punished by death so only the more powerful.... Families would even dare to consider it.

That's why I mentioned the option for a more modern setting. There can be only so many shops in Konoha after all. The cops and law enforcement would be mostlly 'good' but there would be a good amount of dirty cops too. The yakuza would be actively disliked by the population because they are under their heel.

This idea has a lot of problems but I think that it might be original enough to get some attention.

Like I said, I would really like some help to flush this idea out. If you want to write a few random scenes feel free to do so.

Thoughts?

Kingdark

 

[GenocideHeart]

I got this idea from reading a hp story. No this is not a crossover so put your fears a rest.

The Naruto ninja are very... How do I say this? They aren't very ninja like. That's old news but still.

I need help finetuning this idea because it's very vague to be honest.

Now, I don't know if this should be in a more modern setting or not, or if it should be in 'our' earth or Naruto world because of location and plot.

Anyway, the Hokage would be the boss that is the richest, smartest and the most powerful. The other ninja form small 'families' of their own.

And I'm not talking about blood relating family or character a adopts character b no. I'm talking about smaller criminal families. Each are competing against each other and while deaths usually don't happen and are actively discouraged they still happen.

If the Hokage is challenged and his power over konoha then all smaller families will temporarily drop their problems with each other. Disloyalty and possible betrayal are punished by death so only the more powerful.... Families would even dare to consider it.

That's why I mentioned the option for a more modern setting. There can be only so many shops in Konoha after all. The cops and law enforcement would be mostlly 'good' but there would be a good amount of dirty cops too. The yakuza would be actively disliked by the population because they are under their heel.

This idea has a lot of problems but I think that it might be original enough to get some attention.

Like I said, I would really like some help to flush this idea out. If you want to write a few random scenes feel free to do so.

Thoughts?

Kingdark

KAZUMA KIRYU DISAPPROVES.

 

[Inaba]

I strongly disagree with the position that Naruto ninja aren't ninja-like, but that's ignoring the point to chase after a stray comment.

You know how feudal lords are sometimes compared to mob bosses? That's one way to do this.

The hidden villages never coalesced to the extent that they did in canon. Instead, the villages are alliances of aligned clans and factions. Each clan and faction controls its own territory and is largely self-governing, but their heads answer to the leader of the overall alliance as represented by the canon kage. Clanless ninja exist, but they mostly start as clients to established clans and factions and never climb out of that position.

Play up inter-clan/faction politics, bloody those politics up a bit, and loosen the control that the kage has over the alliance.

 

[kingdark]

I strongly disagree with the position that Naruto ninja aren't ninja-like, but that's ignoring the point to chase after a stray comment.

You know how feudal lords are sometimes compared to mob bosses? That's one way to do this.

The hidden villages never coalesced to the extent that they did in canon. Instead, the villages are alliances of aligned clans and factions. Each clan and faction controls its own territory and is largely self-governing, but their heads answer to the leader of the overall alliance as represented by the canon kage. Clanless ninja exist, but they mostly start as clients to established clans and factions and never climb out of that position.

Play up inter-clan/faction politics, bloody those politics up a bit, and loosen the control that the kage has over the alliance.

That's fine too. I just wanted each group of allies or whatever seen in acting stuff like doing drugs, trafficking or other criminal stuff. i dunnno I just figured to throw the idea and see if it would sink or not.

 

[daniel_gudman]

So, I think the biggest thing I'm seeing is, if the "ninjas" are mutualists (symbiotic) who create trouble, they also provide benefit to the civilian population.

Whereas, Yakuza are parasites. Maybe sometimes they do nice things, but basically, the only thing they're "protecting" you from is them. They don't exchange value for money, they just straight-up extort you.

So, then the question is, what kinds of stories are you trying to tell by making all the characters blights on society?

I'm not saying this is a bad thing (story-wise). I mean, Naruto having a crisis because he realizes his dream-of-a-lifetime, to become the "boss", because he realizes that dream is the wrong path as a human, that he has to choose between "being a good person" and "following his dream", that could be good.

Also the Uchiha were a police family even in canon. Just throwing that out there.

 

[GenocideHeart]

So, I think the biggest thing I'm seeing is, if the "ninjas" are mutualists (symbiotic) who create trouble, they also provide benefit to the civilian population.

Whereas, Yakuza are parasites. Maybe sometimes they do nice things, but basically, the only thing they're "protecting" you from is them. They don't exchange value for money, they just straight-up extort you.

So, then the question is, what kinds of stories are you trying to tell by making all the characters blights on society?

I'm not saying this is a bad thing (story-wise). I mean, Naruto having a crisis because he realizes his dream-of-a-lifetime, to become the "boss", because he realizes that dream is the wrong path as a human, that he has to choose between "being a good person" and "following his dream", that could be good.

Also the Uchiha were a police family even in canon. Just throwing that out there.

That's what yakuza are like TODAY. There was a time when they had a strict code of conduct they adhered to, and people liked them back then. Nowadays, not so much.

 

[daniel_gudman]

Nah they were always parasites. It's just that there was that Edo era when there was an entire social caste called "samurai" that were also social parasites, and much bigger ones to boot, so it didn't seem as bad in comparison.

 

[kingdark]

Okay, what about the maffia then? I don't know much about them but weren't they much about honor and that too?

It's still a story so stuff can be turned and twisted to our own purposes but not too much. So if we go with the basic 'naruto characters are mobsters' spread into smaller families each with their own terrritory for 'pracitce' where killing other gangs from other nations are common place? Less on drugs and slave trade and more on profit and killing that whichs stops stuff from profit being made.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Nah they were always parasites. It's just that there was that Edo era when there was an entire social caste called "samurai" that were also social parasites, and much bigger ones to boot, so it didn't seem as bad in comparison.

Being protected by the yakuza during the Edo era made it a lot less likely that a samurai would mess with you, say by shanking you at night to test their swords.

Back then, the yakuza actually provided a service. They kept people from shanking you for the most part, and in exchange you paid them. It worked out well for both sides - the common people got to keep breathing, and the yakuza got paid.

Mind you, there are some yakuza families that actually do go out of their way to help the people they 'protect' even nowadays. But they are rare.

 

[Inaba]

Okay, what about the maffia then? I don't know much about them but weren't they much about honor and that too?

It's still a story so stuff can be turned and twisted to our own purposes but not too much. So if we go with the basic 'naruto characters are mobsters' spread into smaller families each with their own terrritory for 'pracitce' where killing other gangs from other nations are common place? Less on drugs and slave trade and more on profit and killing that whichs stops stuff from profit being made.

You might want to consider some core questions first before starting out, laying down the foundations before building the story so to speak.

Can the characters still do what they do in canon? If yes, what keeps them from usurping the rulers and becoming the big parasites rather than little parasites?

What's illegal in their host societies and what's profitable? People aren't going to risk their lives and wellbeing breaking the law unless there's something in it for them.

What keeps these groups from going legitimate? Are illegal activities simply too profitable? Are some of them opposed to the authorities based on political or ideological concerns?

 

[kingdark]

I was actually thinking of making this completely AU. The hidden villages are 'known' to be mobsters/gangsters/? but it could / can never be proven. That's why I said in my first topic i needed (a lot of) help to flush this idea out.

I got only a vague idea what to do with this. Now, I ask you, is this doomed for failure because I sure can't write it without some support or is this actually a good idea? I did some vague searches on ff.net and nothing came out with 'mobsters, gangster or maffia.' of course ff.net doesn't appear to want to search with these single words. (maffia in particular.) I wonder why.

So.

Doomed for failure or is this actually a good idea?

 

[GenocideHeart]

That's because mafia is spelled with only one f -_-

Just saying -_-

 

[kingdark]

I spelled it wrong here but right in ff.net

Really.

Why are you looking at me like that? :sweat:

I'm telling the truth... Really. No, I'm not :headbanger: banging my head against the wall.

'...'

I'm shutting up now

 

[kingdark]

Hm... That wasn't as funny as I had meant it to be. Still, I'm out of idea's how to make this idea work. I would really like to come up with an idea that would be really popular like the loop plot in the beginning.

 

[Ina_meishou]

Look, are you asking for help with the Research, the Foundation, or the Filling Out part of worldbuilding here?

You sound like you have a basic idea "sort of honor code bound groups in modern setting pull magic shit and fight each other".

People here can list all sorts of stuff about the yakuza and mafia through history, but all of that is useless if you already have a set of rules or codes to define these ninja organizations. Similarly, we could talk about how Chakra might effect (or not effect) a modern setting, but that's useless if you've already got that.

You've talked sort of about ideas you have, but please, lay down what you're thinking in somewhat more detail and specify exactly what you'd like people's input on.

 

[Lord Raine]

ITT, the Italian defends organized crime. Up next, the Scotsman and the Irishman have a drinking contest, a British guy sips tea while wearing a petticoat and monocle, an American with a cowboy hat and a gun eats five cheeseburgers, a Canadian in a hockey uniform says 'eh,' and the French surrender.

The naruto ninja as Yakuza

Or in other words, Hitman Reborn.

"This isn't a crossover." Which is a pity, because if it was, it might actually go somewhere.

 

[goldenarms]

The naruto ninja as Yakuza

Or in other words, Hitman Reborn.

I was thinking more along the lines of The Breaker myself, though that might only because I've just finished an archive binge.

Then again, influential families of ninja living in secret societies, fighting their own shadow wars out of the public eye while under the rule of an Alliance of Ninja...

 

[zeebee1]

Don't insult the cheeseburgers.

 

[kingdark]

Okay, make it a crossover then; I don't really care.

If I haven't made it clear enough, the basic idea I mentioned is all I really have. You guys can speculate and offer stuff all you like.

Personally, i would prefer a modern version of Naruto ninja. If only because I like the idea of Naruto with double berreta's or eagle guns.

There is a similar story on ff.net but I can't recall the name. It's over a 100k though perhaps even over 200k. Uchiha are still cops. And the Hyuga are virtually royalty. I'll see if I can't find the source (if it hasn't been deleted because of certain scenes.)

Kingdark

Edit:
Here we go

Naruto: Soldiers of Fortune
Author: Kenchi618 PM
Naruto AU. Naruto in a more modern urban setting. Will be EPIC in length. Things aren't as they appear in this interpretation of Naruto. Can Naruto figure out the mysteries that surround his life and achieve his own happiness? NarutoXFemale Kyuubi

Rated: Fiction M - English - Adventure/Humor - Naruto U. & Kurama/Kyuubi - Reviews: 1,002 - Chapters: 43 - Words: 324,559 - Updated: 03-20-12 - Published: 03-17-10

OR
<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5822691/1/Naruto_Soldiers_of_Fortune' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>HERE WE GO</a>

Yes, I think that doing something like this but with a maffia style might do the trick.

 

[Lord Raine]

The naruto ninja as Yakuza

Or in other words, Hitman Reborn.

I was thinking more along the lines of The Breaker myself, though that might only because I've just finished an archive binge.

Then again, influential families of ninja living in secret societies, fighting their own shadow wars out of the public eye while under the rule of an Alliance of Ninja...

I've proposed something pretty much exactly like that before, when I talked about the pilot. This was my vision for how the plot would have gone if Kishimoto had kept the fact that it was: modern day but hidden, that everyone was a demon or spirit but also a ninja, and that they fought and competed over territory and resources.

This does resemble The Breaker a lot, and for good reason. As I have explained before, Murim is a concept, not a unique entity to the The Breaker series, and essentially all martial arts manga and manhwa, from Ranma to Veritas to HSDK and everything in between, contain Murim (i.e. the Martial Arts World) to some extent. Murim is, in essence, the idea that there is a 'world of martial arts' that exists behind the world everyone else sees. And like all good myths, it's partially true. Like any specialists, martial artists move in circles that other people don't see, and are connected by a web of relationships that can be hard to understand when looking at it from the outside. Murim as a story-telling trope mystifies and romanticizes the truth to the point that the viewer assumes that there really is an entire world hidden from view, with shadow wars, secret alliances, and honor duels to the death in private dojos and opulent, hidden arenas that the normal man has no access to, and no knowledge of.

I will say two things.

1.) The idea of a Murim based Narutoverse that takes place in modern day is interesting and potentially something that should be seriously considered as an AU, possibly even as a group or collaborative project. It is quite valid, and intensely fascinating, as it is essentially using the Narutoverse to answer the question of "where did the ninja go?" Answer: to the underground.

2.) While fascinating, the Murim has pretty much nothing to do with the Yakuza. That's something completely different. What Murim does is never illegal (technically) and usually honorable, or at least honor-driven. They do not extort money from normal people, nor do they push drugs, guns, and illicit substances. Murim typically has access to such things, but only because they are old, wealthy, and are respected (and sometimes feared) by the highest circles of the government.

To put this another way, in the context of when this came up in relation to Love Hina, a Yakuza thug could get a functional assault rifle onto Japanese soil because of his connections to the underworld. Keitaro, on the other hand, could get a functional assault rifle onto Japanese soil because he is an Urashima, because his grandmother is absurdly rich, and because people from Murim are just allowed to do things like that, because they aren't questioned.

Organized crime wants to make money and get power. Murim just wants to be left alone (typically, though often the villains want to take something over).

 

[Inaba]

Murim, huh?

I'm curious if that's an unique setting element of The Breaker or if it's based on Korean culture, because some of it sounds rather similar to the concept of Wulin in Chinese wuxia fiction.

Actually, come to think of it, cribbing notes from wuxia might also be a good idea if you want to focus on the semi-open, semi-open 'do-as-you-will' aspects rather than the organized crime aspects. The idea of a a honor-based community inside a community that is largely heroic but almost always either against or outside of the broader society might be particularly useful.

 

[GenocideHeart]

ITT, the Italian defends organized crime. Up next, the Scotsman and the Irishman have a drinking contest, a British guy sips tea while wearing a petticoat and monocle, an American with a cowboy hat and a gun eats five cheeseburgers, a Canadian in a hockey uniform says 'eh,' and the French surrender.

As I said, the yakuza is not even close to what it used to be. There was a time when people actually liked yakuza because they kept them safe from much, much worse things - like say, basically anything that wasn't another peasant. Being a peasant in feudal Japan was no fun, and the yakuza offered protection from the more unfun parts of being a peasant in exchange for money. Which often left said peasants broke, but they preferred broke to dead.

Nowadays, they are pretty much the mafia, though. Fun fact: the Italian mafia originated under much the same circumstances. They went bad a lot faster than the yakuza though.

Even so, there are some yakuza clans that, even today, actually act in a somewhat honorable way. But they are minor and unimportant, precisely because they aren't ruthless enough.

 

[Lord Raine]

Black on Blacker Morality doesn't excuse anything. They could have been White on Blacker if they wanted to be. A thug that protects you from other thugs doesn't stop being a thug. That's called "protecting their territory."

 

[GenocideHeart]

Black on Blacker Morality doesn't excuse anything. They could have been White on Blacker if they wanted to be. A thug that protects you from other thugs doesn't stop being a thug. That's called "protecting their territory."

Going by that logic, 99% of modern day nations' existence is inexcusable, since they came about as a result of black on blacker morality.

And back when they first came into existence, the yakuza primarily opposed the extremely corrupt government and genuinely meant to support the common folks. But of course it didn't last. It never does.

 

[Inaba]

And back when they first came into existence, the yakuza primarily opposed the extremely corrupt government and genuinely meant to support the common folks.

I've never heard of this - could you please elaborate?