Harry Potter What if Hermiones grandparents Weren't British?

[Chuckg]

You can entirely get into Diagon Alley without a working wand -- Hagrid and Harry both managed in book one, on their first trip there. Hagrid's wand had been snapped and he was using wand bits hidden in his umbrella, and Harry had none. (Or, if you're using main force, you just blow a damn hole in the wall.)

Not to mention that its entirely possible for a squib to own a residence on the Floo network, witness Arabella Figg. One cooperative person like such and bam, you can go anywhere in the Wizarding World with an open floo.

As far as being 'hexed on sight', squibs do not walk around with giant signs saying "I AM A SQUIB". Provided that they are not personally known to their audience (as Filch is around Hogwarts), they're just more strangers passing by.

 

[Oni_kawaii]

And purebloods siding with the muggle government over the wizarding one? Even the Weasleys would choose the latter.

Play both sides against the middle and then hit them both when they are at the weakest.
Slytherin at it's best :lol:

 

[Chuckg]

I can think of one Pureblood off the top of my head who might well have decided that the Magical World can go screw itself, as long as him and his godson and what very few relatives he's not trying to kill are well provided for and safe. You'd just need to explain where the hell Sirius got the idea from in the first place, given that everything he knows about the Muggle world, you could carve onto the head of a pin with a battleaxe.

 

[dracklor]

One problem that hasn't been addressed, weaponized magical creatures.

Sure a dragon can be taken out with heavy weapons, but all the wizards need to do to wipe out the muggle armed forces would be to release the Dementors onto enemy bases, and tell the to feast.

What could the muggles do? Invisible, and possibly indestructible monsters that leave your people mindless drooling husks, talk about your nightmare scenarios. . . :sick3:

:edit: spelling

 

[Chuckg]

The Dementors are not that controllable. Even Voldemort could only release them to rampage at random, he could not aim them at specific targets. Not unless you're willing to tag along after them and herd them with a Patronus(*), which is impractical under the circumstances you're talking about.


(*) Which is probably how Umbridge managed to aim two Dementors at Harry, and even then, I'm amazed she made it work.

 

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Umbridge didn't send two Dementors at Little Whinging. The Ministry didn't believe anyone but them could control the Dementors but it was Voldemort taking them over for his own ends.

And Hagrid's wand does work or, at the very least, can channel magic. He cursed Dudley with a pig's tail remember and Ron had a broken wand as well (admittedly neither of them worked as planned but they could be directed and magic certainly flowed through them).

Arabella Figg is an associate of Dumbledore, Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot. I'm more than certain that she'd be lucky enough to gain some perks from that, floo access included (especially since she has to report to Dumbledore in the event of a magical emergency). Remember, Harry's home had to be temporarily put on the floo network to allow the Weasleys to get to his home. I'd assume the majority of squibs, who have integrated themselves with the muggle world like Ron's distant cousin, wouldn't have a fireplace connected to the floo network.

And while squibs won't be targetted outright if they entered Knockturn Alley, I was trying to get across that it is the 'wretched hive of scum and villainy' full of the elite and the nasty. It's a dangerous place for anyone, especially those who can't use magic to defend themselves. A squib might be able to access its resources but likewise s/he might be turned into a newt for a laugh.

 

[Chuckg]

You are factually incorrect re: the Dementors:

'What Cornelius doesn't know won't hurt him,' said Umbridge, who was now panting slightly as she pointed her wand at different parts of Harry's body in turn, apparently trying to decide where it would hurt most. 'He never knew I ordered Dementors to go after Potter last summer, but he was delighted to be given the chance to expel him, all the same.'

'It was you? gasped Harry. 'You sent the Dementors after me?'

'Somebody had to act,' breathed Umbridge [...]

-- Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 32, "Out of the Fire"

As far as Diagon Alley, all that means is that in the worst-case scenario they need a wand, or pieces of a wand, to open the door. Any firstie from Hogwarts has a wand they carry home over the summer, and they're not exactly qualified to stop someone taking it away from them.

But really, squibs have to be able to enter Diagon Alley without assistance, because IIRC some of them work there as shop clerks.

 

[GiantMonkeyMan]

My bad, you've proven me wrong on that point. Regardless, I believe that it does, in fact, prove that dementors can be controlled and directed at specific targets.

I don't remember any mention of squib shop-keepers but then I may be wrong on that matter; I can't be arsed to trawl through the books for evidence, you beat me on that front. ^_^

As for taking any old wand and using it to gain access to Diagon alley; I'd put forward that you need magic to use a wand. Wands don't work for squibs or muggles and I believe, since the entrance way is magically revealed, it'd take some magic to open it in return. Although I can't prove it from canon, neither can you disprove it (it isn't even mentioned, let's be honest) so either could be true in fanfics. On the other hand, I'm sure a squib or a muggle being guided by a witch/wizard would simply be able to ask Tom the barkeep to open it for them. :huh.:

 

[whitewhiskey]

As far as Hermione's parents being of foreign ancestry... Physically, we're only given "buck teeth" and "bushy hair".

I like Hermione being African in origin. Say one of her distant relatives is a powerful shaman with real magic. That'd be interesting.

You are aware that by that logic, I could just as well say Harry has green skin and Ron is of Inuit descent? That sort of logic simply doesn't work, because even the in-book drawings (I think), artwork from the Lexicon and JKR's approval of Emma Watson as Hermione's actress confirm Hermione as a pale-skinned brunette.

And Shaman? Real magic? I'd like to know where this 'real magic' comes from, because even in myth African shaman were just spiritual healers or malevolent shapeshifters.

Not to just run in and randomly state useless facts in slightly older threads, but the movie series is not the best place to compare characters. I think it was the third movie Lavender Brown was black and by the six movie she was white. But than again maybe being magical can give you that ability. Lavender could be a metamorph though and the new, younger and improved Tonks though. Now back to this weeks scheduled lurk.

Personally I don't even think of the movies when I try to imagine how any of the characters look.. It just ruins it for me..

Also with Hermione being black, It'd give the term 'Mudblood' a whole new angle... I mean Mud is traditionally dirty and brown and could concievably have been an insult to her Muggleborn status as well as her ethnicity...

I don't know why, and I don't know why I hadn't thought of it before, but I kinda like this idea. I'll admit, for some reason I don't consciously understand, the idea of a black or mulatto Hermione is slightly cuter and more attractive than the norm, maybe just because it is a difference from the norm or because I automatically put one of the above faces in her place.

You could have her Grandfater turn out to be Baron Samedi (on her mother's side)

Or something more traditional

ôGranddad!ö Hermione didnÆt quite run into his arms but is was close.

The older dark skinned man smiled down at her, embracing her with one arm, as he used his cane to steady himself. ôAh child, it warms my heart to see you again!ö

Harry noticed the DumbledoreÆs ever present smile faltered for just a moment, as the tall wizard strode forward. ôMr. Sammy is it? I apologize we were not told youÆd be visiting.ö Harry blinked as the Island man looked up at the Headmaster, something hot flashing through his eyes. For the briefest of moments he couldÆve sworn heÆd seen the manÆs skull, bleached white and grinning nastily. He wouldÆve dismissed the sight had he not seen Dumbledore suddenly pull up short.

ôI was in the neighborhood and thought IÆd visit my beloved granddaughter.ö The embrace ended as Hermione seemed to remember where she was and who sheÆd hugged her relative in front of. ôOh Grandfather, forgive me this is Harry Potter andàö

ôRon Weasly.ö He stepped forward pinning both boys with his eyes. He took their measure seeming to see through them. ôAs I understand it, I have the two of you to thank for my childÆs continued good health.ö His lips quirked upwards as he placed his cane before him, resting both hands a top the caneÆs pommel which had been worked into a silverish grinning skull. In one smooth motion he placed the cane under his arm and reached forward, clasping their shoulders. ôThank you boys, you have no idea how much she means to me.ö His eyes flashed again, only this time the look was more amused than the previous outright hostile glare. ôI owe you both one.ö

Finally I suggest that her Grandmother be Martha Liberty, an African-American Wizard on the White Council in 'The Dresden Files'.

I think he might actually first show up sometime soon after the troll incident to check in on his granddaughter, and while Harry would probably make a somewhat good impression, I'm not too sure Ron would get off so easily for being the one who insulted Hermione, leading to the troll confrontation in the first place.

 

[zerohour]

Yeah, I figured he'd give him the eye of death for (indirectly) endangering his granddaughter.


A point against Muggles beating Wizards. While both ides may be ill informed, it's fairly easy for the Wizards to fille in their gaps of knowledge

Step 1: Kidnap a Muggle
Step 2: Cast the Imperius
Step 3: Tell them to write down everything they know about technology/Muggle society

Granted, this will only get them so far, but it's fairly easy to abduct random people, and later on, people who know important things, and just force them to tell everything they know. I'm still in favor of Muggles winning, but it's slightly less onesided, assuming that the wizards are smart enough to think of that.

 

[Chuckg]

This won't get them very far at all. How much understanding will you get of modern military theory by grabbing random civilians off the street and mind-probing them? Or modern technology?

The problem gets even worse in that neither Veritaserum nor the Imperius Curse can prevent the subject from handing you a pile of shite if the subject himself sincerely believes what he's saying, and most people off the street get their military knowledge from TV and action movies, and most of that's wrong.

And the only thing worse than no information is wrong information. You spend tons of time chasing down blind alleys.

And even what correct information they might get is not only buried under a lousy signal-to-noise ratio, but comes in disjointed bits with no context and no gestalt.

Edit: Remember, the muggles need to learn a lot less than the wizards in order to be dangerous. Single facts like 'Most wizards can't do dick without their wand' still give them a quantum jump in wizard-fighting capacity. The wizards, in the meantime, have to catch up on entire centuries' worth of progress in order to get back in the game. You can't do that by Imperius'ing random kidnappees.

 

[Prince Charon]

One thing in the wizards' favor, is that the muggles depicted in the books are just as incompetent. You can't say 'wizards vs muggles' and put wizards with Potterverse-level competence against muggles with RL-level competence, because then you'd have to explain why the conflict is happening 'now', instead of one to three centuries ago.

You give the muggles Potterverse-level competence, and of course the wizards win, you give the muggles RL-level competence but keep the wizards at Potterverse-level, and the wizards not only don't stand a chance, they lost well before Tom Riddle was born.

 

[Chuckg]

Didn't we already argue this in another thread?

To sum up the rebuttal from there: we actually saw no such thing in the Harry Potter books. The Muggle Prime Minister gets all of one brief scene in book 6, and his 'incompetence' is limited to not being able to read Fudge's mind and learn everything he wasn't telling them, or where he was blowing smoke up their asses. Outside of that, Muggles are completely offstage. So, they're incompetent how? The evidence is?

Edit: Actually, in the HP canon, it hasn't happened yet -- only one official of the Muggle government is allowed to know of the existence of the Wizarding World, and I'm fairly sure that he gets a few charms tossed on him to keep him from telling anyone else without permission, or remembering what he was told once he leaves office. The entire discussion re: "Who would win" postulates that a sudden breach in the Statutes of Secrecy has occurred in the first place, so, the answer to your question re: 'why now?' for timing is 'why not?'