Harry Potter What's with all the hate for the word "muggle"
- Thread starter slickrcbd
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Because they are descriptive of a state (color of ones skin, existence of magical ability/living in a wizarding environment) in very flat way. Somebody who just started learning english will have no trouble understanding the terms.
'tar baby' is a odd duck in that because if you know what tar looks like you also immedately get why the word is used. But you'll also never think to use 'tar baby' in a polite (or non-joking) discourse.
'tar baby' is a odd duck in that because if you know what tar looks like you also immedately get why the word is used. But you'll also never think to use 'tar baby' in a polite (or non-joking) discourse.
No.
It is not stated or implied in any way whatsoever.
Muggle is the term used for nonmagical people, by everyone, regardless of political inclinations or personal ideology.
It does not, in canon, carry the same connotation as nigger, kike, spic, splib, mick, kraut, jap, wop, gook, chink, cracker or any other racial slur. The idea that it is a slur is fanon.
It is not stated or implied in any way whatsoever.
Muggle is the term used for nonmagical people, by everyone, regardless of political inclinations or personal ideology.
It does not, in canon, carry the same connotation as nigger, kike, spic, splib, mick, kraut, jap, wop, gook, chink, cracker or any other racial slur. The idea that it is a slur is fanon.
To the best of my knowledge even niggro(sp?) didn't start out as a slur, what matters is the way there used(though "gullible person; dupe; fool." does get it off to a rather good start), and "muggle" is clearly used in a "these people are less then us" kind of way.
So yes, though people like Harry might not mean it to be(as is often the case at the beginning), it is a slur. :sisi:
So yes, though people like Harry might not mean it to be(as is often the case at the beginning), it is a slur. :sisi:
And I believe that originally "niggro"(still SP?) was just the equivalent of "Anglo", but when the other N word became taboo and people swapped to it without changing the meaning behind it, it to became a "slur".
It's not just the meaning(though like I said, "fool" isn't a nice one to start with), it's the feeling behind it.
Are to put it another way, the ones it's used to describe are the ones who decide if it's a slur or not, and as a "muggle" I can tell you that I don't like being called a "gullible person" by HP wizards. :crazy:
It's not just the meaning(though like I said, "fool" isn't a nice one to start with), it's the feeling behind it.
Are to put it another way, the ones it's used to describe are the ones who decide if it's a slur or not, and as a "muggle" I can tell you that I don't like being called a "gullible person" by HP wizards. :crazy:
Yes, I believe Harry's uncle(maybe it was his aunt) was, maybe one or two others.
Most others are to busy being mind wiped against their will to be "offended". :sisi:
But like I said(I'm sure it was in there somewhere :wacko: ), though Harry and his like don't mean it like that, it's still a word that group A calls another group B(one a lot of the group A disdains), that group B doesn't call it's self, and likely wouldn't like(if they were aloud to remember it). What would you call that?
Most others are to busy being mind wiped against their will to be "offended". :sisi:
But like I said(I'm sure it was in there somewhere :wacko: ), though Harry and his like don't mean it like that, it's still a word that group A calls another group B(one a lot of the group A disdains), that group B doesn't call it's self, and likely wouldn't like(if they were aloud to remember it). What would you call that?
A word.
The point isn't that wizards don't sometimes dislike muggles, they do. The point isn't that the term in universe is never spoken with distaste, it is.
The point is that it is the canonical term used by all wizards (at least in Britain) to refer to those without magic. It is thus not equivalent to slurs as they are generally seen today, which are considered highly insulting, automatically taken as pejoratives, and socially unacceptable.
If Molly Weasley gasped and gave her children a thrashing when they said muggle, it would be socially equivalent to nigger. But she doesn't, because muggle is socially acceptable. The people who speak it with disdain are doing the equivalent of saying "those *blacks*" or "Those *african-americans*" or "those *jews*" or "those *Irish*" with a sneer. The insult is carried in their tone, not the word used. Because the word alone is, in universe, socially considered neutral (whatever meta feeling Rowline wished to evoke).
The point isn't that wizards don't sometimes dislike muggles, they do. The point isn't that the term in universe is never spoken with distaste, it is.
The point is that it is the canonical term used by all wizards (at least in Britain) to refer to those without magic. It is thus not equivalent to slurs as they are generally seen today, which are considered highly insulting, automatically taken as pejoratives, and socially unacceptable.
If Molly Weasley gasped and gave her children a thrashing when they said muggle, it would be socially equivalent to nigger. But she doesn't, because muggle is socially acceptable. The people who speak it with disdain are doing the equivalent of saying "those *blacks*" or "Those *african-americans*" or "those *jews*" or "those *Irish*" with a sneer. The insult is carried in their tone, not the word used. Because the word alone is, in universe, socially considered neutral (whatever meta feeling Rowline wished to evoke).
I think it's more akin to the words "foreigner" and/or "tourist"; a person or group who are from outside your culture and behave in a manner atypical to your usual experience. Intellectually, you know they're most likely your equal, but deep down, most people believe that they and the way their society live is the best way to live. So people look upon foreigners with just a bit of contempt, even though its usually subconscious and not really meant as anything serious.
EDIT:
In other words, everybody's just a little bit racist. I think Avenue Q had a song about that.
EDIT:
In other words, everybody's just a little bit racist. I think Avenue Q had a song about that.
The difference being that it was not socially unacceptable.
To try and be more clear. Nigger referred to a group which formed the underclass. It referred to the lowest social strata of society. (That's an oversimplification of course, there were free blacks and mixed race and all sorts of nuances). The word itself was a descriptor, the social situation was the insult.
In the harry potter universe, Muggle doesn't fit that mold. It does not describe a social group at all. The wizards are not part of British society, they are essentially a distributed nation that happens to share space with the nonmagical one. The term muggle is not a derogatory insult, it is used as a general purpose term for 'people without magic who were not born to people with magic'. Any insult conveyed is purely one of tone and body language of the speaker.
Words are symbols, the meaning is socially defined. If the society does not place an inherent insult in the term, then the term does not socially carry an insult in and of itself.
To try and be more clear. Nigger referred to a group which formed the underclass. It referred to the lowest social strata of society. (That's an oversimplification of course, there were free blacks and mixed race and all sorts of nuances). The word itself was a descriptor, the social situation was the insult.
In the harry potter universe, Muggle doesn't fit that mold. It does not describe a social group at all. The wizards are not part of British society, they are essentially a distributed nation that happens to share space with the nonmagical one. The term muggle is not a derogatory insult, it is used as a general purpose term for 'people without magic who were not born to people with magic'. Any insult conveyed is purely one of tone and body language of the speaker.
Words are symbols, the meaning is socially defined. If the society does not place an inherent insult in the term, then the term does not socially carry an insult in and of itself.