Nasuverse A Certain Magical Blade Works?

Garlak

Well-Known Member
#26
Dark Schneider said:
It's not so much that Shirou's in trouble for trespassing, although Acadmey City has very strict policies on who is allowed into it, it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't exist. There are no records of him anywhere that could be found, which is why something has to be cooked up.
Sooo... he's some kid from a Third World country shithole or something who got kidnapped.

Alternatively, he's in a database Academy City can't access. Maybe his records are on paper somewhere. Or trying to search for him would take too long.

Or he's the result of some kind of illegal cloning research or something.



... Are those the things Heaven Canceler is thinking? Because the way you have him say that Shirou doesn't exist, well... it makes it sound like this one hospital has asked everyone in the world, and not gotten an answer about Shirou. Granted, this hospital is in Academy City, but still.
 

Dark Schneider

Well-Known Member
#27
Ah, it's not the hospital that's been checking on him, it's the massive organization that's behind Academy City. There's no records of him in Japan, despite being ethnically Japanese, nor are there any records of him entering the country. The group that runs Academy City is rather suspicious given that they have some pretty powerful enemies out there who want to stop what they're doing. Heaven's Canceller is concerned because he doesn't want to see a young man, who happens to be his patient, get unwittingly caught up in the schemes of the City, or carted off to a laboratory where he'd never see the light of day again. Shirou deliberately involves himself in what is going on, despite not knowing all the details, so he doesn't interfere.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#28
I'll point out that it's entirely possible that Shirou's basically got a Magic Crest already; if you look at the artwork that shows him using his magic, he's got the same sort of glowing lines on his arm, neck, and face that Rin has in her Magic Crest, and he did spend the last ten years engraving his magic circuits into his physical body (and a Magic Crest is basically just magic circuits engraved into your body with the sum total of your magical achievements stored in them).

If he explained that to a local mage, though, he'd probably be an object of interest given that they'd probably think that he's managed to inscribe a grimoire into his body.
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#29
It'd be useless though. Shirou's magic is reliant on his reality marble. That's not something anyone else can duplicate without that person going through the exact same circumstances Shirou did.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#30
Muramasa said:
It'd be useless though.? Shirou's magic is reliant on his reality marble.? That's not something anyone else can duplicate without that person going through the exact same circumstances Shirou did.
IIRC, Shirou could project Avalon so well because it was engraved into his body after spending ten years implanted into him; he might well be able to engrave that into his magic crest and pass it onto his heir, assuming it isn't already engraved into his magic crest (and thus capable of being passed along to his heir).

Archer demonstrated other magics as well, at least in the UBW movie, like the scene where he telepathically communicates with Rin from across the city to tell her to get away from Berserker, and the scene where he knocks Rin unconscious by touching the back of her neck/head. I can't remember if those scenes happened like that in the game, though.
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#31
I'm pretty sure the telepathy thing is a Master/Servant perk which is not available without having that kind of connection. The second instance I don't remember. Pretty sure it isn't magic though.
 
#32
all the magecraft EMIYA and Shiro can do in canon is referent to UBW: projection, tracing, reinforcement, modification/alteration. he can use basic 'spells'(?) but nothing worth mentioning, the knock out thing could be either a prana burst or a martial technique and the telepathy is because the Master/servant bond
Avalon is an Artifact conceptual weapon turned Noble Phantasm, that Shirou could only trace because it was imprinted into his being by the fact it was merged into his body for 10 years. While the 'blueprint' of Avalon could be passed via Crest it's unprobable that another being can trace it, OTOH some aspects of Avalon could be pased that way, either altered, diluited or on equal stand to the original.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#33
EMIYA is actually capable of some orthodox magecraft. Enough to get a C ranking in it.

Nothing that's worth passing on though.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#34
Amodelsino said:
EMIYA is actually capable of some orthodox magecraft. Enough to get a C ranking in it.

Nothing that's worth passing on though.
Anything he's capable of passing on is worth passing on, even if it's just the basics; there's no reason to make his heir reinvent the wheel if he doesn't have to.
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#35
Magic is also quite a bit different in To Aru-verse it seems. Most of it seems initiated through different objects, weapons and magical inscriptions. Shirou might be able to do things in To Aru verse that he couldn't do in Nasu.
 

lask

Well-Known Member
#37
Closer to Divine Words, as people mentioned earlier. Modern Magi really are closer to Espers then "A Certain" style magic users. They build there own personal reality, and use it. It's not the same, their constuction of mysteries seems like a way of artifically recreating on a personal level the responsive mystical enviroment that naturally exists in the Toaru Majutsu no Index universe, where espers all seem to have a very focused personal world that lets them understand a control just one thing. A lot like a Reality Marble, really.
 

Aarik

Well-Known Member
#38
Huh.

Wait.

Accelerator's powers require him to understand whats hitting him and then make the appropriate calculations right?

With his new Magic Circuit Count, Shirou should be able to Excaliblast.

Good luck quantifying the physical crystallization of all Human dreams and wishes Accelerator.

Or Blocking Gae Bolg or Gungnir, which hit you before they hit you, or Fragarach, which Nullifies your powers and <s>instantly</s>retroactively kills you.
 

TmDagger

Well-Known Member
#39
Thus the crux of matter: Shiro is and always was just a couple of steps away from being on top of magi food chain. All that really held him back were his relatively small prana reservoirs and lack of skill. Now though...
 

Liam-don

Well-Known Member
#40
Accelerator has a permanently active "repel everything field". He has to actively let vital stuff like air/oxygen and light through. He's an albino because he never gets exposed to UV IIRC. That won't save him from Gae Bolg, but Excalibur is out.

And further in the series he becomes considerably more powerful, to the point where he can stop whatever he wants even if it's complete bullshit.
 
#41
part of the Excaliblast is light, no?
:eek:t: how he would fare agaist Ea or Slash Emperor?
 
#42
Liam-don said:
Accelerator has a permanently active "repel everything field". He has to actively let vital stuff like air/oxygen and light through. He's an albino because he never gets exposed to UV IIRC. That won't save him from Gae Bolg, but Excalibur is out.

And further in the series he becomes considerably more powerful, to the point where he can stop whatever he wants even if it's complete bullshit.
Actually he would be able to block Excaliblasts. At least not until he gets the 'LolImaginary-Vectors' upgrade or Awakens.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#43
Muramasa said:
Magic is also quite a bit different in To Aru-verse it seems.? Most of it seems initiated through different objects, weapons and magical inscriptions.? Shirou might be able to do things in To Aru verse that he couldn't do in Nasu.
Unlikely; his magic is close enough to Toaruverse psychic powers that if he tried to use Toaruverse magic, he'd be lucky if he just wound up in extreme amounts of pain.

Also, if Shirou finds out about the nature of Academy City, he could very easily pass himself off as a very powerful psychometrist given the analysis functions of Unlimited Blade Works; that in itself might well qualify him for Level 4 or 5, given how he can analyse the entire history of an item, the process by which it was created and the skills of its users, as well as the physical structure down to the molecular level with little more than a glance. It'd also give him a very nasty surprise for anyone who assumes that he's not a threat, because, after all, an Esper only has one power, and his can't be used to attack. :p
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#44
Aarik said:
Huh.

Wait.

Accelerator's powers require him to understand whats hitting him and then make the appropriate calculations right?

With his new Magic Circuit Count, Shirou should be able to Excaliblast.

Good luck quantifying the physical crystallization of all Human dreams and wishes Accelerator.

Or Blocking Gae Bolg or Gungnir, which hit you before they hit you, or Fragarach, which Nullifies your powers and <s>instantly</s>retroactively kills you.
Actually, Accelerator would almost certainly be able to block Excalibur. At the end of the day, even if it is made out of the dreams and wishes of mankind, but at the end of the day, the Excaliblast just converts the prana of the owner into light, intensifying the kinetic energy by convergence and acceleration.

Acelerator would flat out ignore that. And even if it's used as a sword, Accelerator doesn't have to know what it's made out of, it just has to fit into the aws of his world, which it does (it has magnitude and direction, i.e. vectors). Dark Matter was a problem because it was 'natural' but did things that were 'impossible.' Light that touched it didn't act like normal light (even though blocking lasers isn't new for Accelerator), air that touched it wasn't normal air (even though Acceleratorcan control wind in bullshit way). It's hard to explain, but while a Wind controlling esper can make wind do strange things, Dark Matter made wind not-wind. Accelerator had to calculate all the laws of Dark Matter and add them to his inner world (which he did in seconds).

As for Gae Bolg, well, there are a number of ways to defend against it. The easiest would be to just back out of range; the casualty version has a really small range (2-4) and Accelerator can fly. So yeah.

Besides that, there are ways to actively defend against it as well. The first is Luck, which Accelerator doesn't really have (probably). The second is an auto-res skill, which he doesn't have (probably).

However, there is a third way to defend, and that's to have a really powerful supernatural defense, which Accel does have. So Gae Bolg might not work either, since Accel's supernatural defense is strong enough to redirect blasts that can level Asia.

Fragarach...probably just wouldn't work on Accelerator, because his 'trump card' is his 'Exatons of TNT, blow up the planet attack which he as no reason to use.'

However, even if it wasn't and his Vector Control was his trump card (which is like saying magic in generaly is a mages trump card), it might not work, simply because of the way Fragarach works. It uses time as a weapon, going back to before it's opponent uses their Ultimate attack and striking them through the heart with a bolt of light. It negates the attack by killing it's opponent (by blasting through his heart) before that attack happens, thus the attack can't happen.

However, it doesn't, say, write into the Universe that 'Accelerator is dead' or anything. It would just go back in time and hit him before he attacks.

But this has several problems.

First of all, Accelerator's ability isn't automatic; it's just that he activates it everytime something hits him, including light, so it seems like it's on all the time. So going back before he uses Vector Control isn't hard, since he uses it everytime something new touches him.

Second of all, like I said, Fragarach isn't an auto-death NP; it just hits you at the speed of light...which Accelerator is fast enough to block.

Third of all, it's not like Accelerator needs his heart anyway; he can use Vector Control to live without it (like he did to save that lady).

Also, in other news, Accelerator is still broken as hell.
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
#45
Y'know Fragarach doesn't have to target the heart.
 

Aarik

Well-Known Member
#46
Not really, just teleport him into space.

And Fragarach actually does auto kill you.

It 'inflicts the damage necessary to instantly kill the target';Paraphrased.

If a hit through the heart won't do that, then it will do something else.

Also, Light is 100 times faster then thought, he really shouldn't be able to to do that, but To Aru has never really cared about physics except where they could urinate on it to make people more hax.
 

Aarik

Well-Known Member
#48
shioran toushin said:
so, Gae Bolg reversal of causality can hit but not kill Acc?
Nope, but the 'Can't be healed ever' part will be the real bitch.

Plus the whole, him needing to consciously regulate his own blood flow now, I don't think he will ever be able to go to sleep again.

Also, he can feel pain, I'm assuming that means that he can also pass out from it.

There's also Touma, who, in that situation, could kill Accelerator with nothing but a touch.
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#49
Not really, just teleport him into space.
What?

I mean, yeah, I guess that could work on Accelerator if he wasn't able to use Vector Control on Teleportation, which, it just so happens, he is. But even if it would work, is there anyone in either Toaru or Fate that can do that?

And Fragarach actually does auto kill you.

No time, no injuries or any of that, it 'inflicts the damage necessary to instantly kill the target';Paraphrased.
That's incorrect; if you look at the scene in F/HA, you'll notice the huge gaping wound it caused to Lancer. And, actually, it doesn't say that it inflicts that much damage anywhere. It just hits them before they can attack.

Also, the text you're paraphrasing doesn't appear anywhere I can find (I checked Fuyuki first, because the Wiki gets edited by a lot of people and is less trustworthy, but then I checked the Wiki just in case and it didn't have it either).

This is what Fragarach does. In response to the opponents trump card, it turns on, goes back in time, and attacks them at the speed of light (though it obviously doesn't have the force something of that size would have at that speed). If the target is killed then he couldn't have attacked, therefore his attack couldn't have happened.

That's it. It doesn't ensure death (though it is an A-rank Attack that moves at light speed, so the difference is hard to see).

If a hit through the heart won't do that, then it will do something else.
Not really. It hits the target it's user aims at. It just does it at the speed of light after it goes back in time.

Also, Light is 100 times faster then thought, he really shouldn't be able to to do that, but To Aru has never really cared about physics except where they could urinate on it to make people more hax.
Yes, well, the same is true of most manga and light novel series, including F/SN.
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#50
so, Gae Bolg reversal of causality can hit but not kill Acc?
Unless Vector Control works on it, since supernatural defenses are one of the ways to block Gae Bolg.

Nope, but the 'Can't be healed ever' part will be the real bitch.
Not really. He wouldn't be able to heal until Gae Bolg was destroyed (if it managed to hit him at all), but it wouldn't sto him from getting a mechanical heart or anything and he does live in Academy City, so...

Plus the whole, him needing to consciously regulate his own blood flow now, I don't think he will ever be able to go to sleep again.
Accelerator managed to regulate the blood flow of a dying woman while unconscious and after being shot in the head and having shard of bone sent into his brain.

This wouldn't be a problem.

Also, he can feel pain, I'm assuming that means that he can also pass out from it.
Not really. He has the ability to control brain waves and signals; if he didn't want to feel pain, he wouldn't.

There's also Touma, who, in that situation, could kill Accelerator with nothing but a touch.
Again, not really. Well, okay, yes, if Touma touched the place his heart should be.

But not really. Touma's ability negates powers that come in contact with his hand, but as proven by Misaka, even if he's touching an Esper, they can still use their power as long as that power doesn't affect his hand.
 
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