Nasuverse A Certain Magical Blade Works?
- Thread starter Dark Schneider
- Start date
Did DS get ignored in his own thread? ^_^
Well, that depends. Fate, UBW Shirou and EMIYA are all different persons but they still share the same core belief. HF Shirou is the exception and that's because he willingly broke away from his basic nature. With a grown UBW Shirou as the base and Archer on top of it, for Shirou to have UBW is natural. It's not having it that would take an effort. That said, things are usually more interesting when the character isn't overpowered, so I don't mind anyway.
Though touma punching people in the face is getting a little stale.<_<
I can't really object if you decide not to just follow the show.
Have Shirou room with Gunha.:snigger:
So they'll send the God's Right Seat right away?
Though touma punching people in the face is getting a little stale.<_<
I can't really object if you decide not to just follow the show.
Have Shirou room with Gunha.:snigger:
So they'll send the God's Right Seat right away?
i was actually talking about the one Gil had when he was alive, because i agree that any traced version would fall agaist touma.
Shiro's Super analyzing skills can be used on everything he can get his hands on (minus spells i think) but the tracing can be done properly only on armaments (and armor) everything else comes as an 'empty' shell.
i think the espers could help shiro with the visualization aspect if nothing else.
and actually this discussion has little to do with the actual fic and more on the comparation of the mechanics of both universes and how they would interact with eachother.
Sorry DS ^_^
Shiro's Super analyzing skills can be used on everything he can get his hands on (minus spells i think) but the tracing can be done properly only on armaments (and armor) everything else comes as an 'empty' shell.
i think the espers could help shiro with the visualization aspect if nothing else.
and actually this discussion has little to do with the actual fic and more on the comparation of the mechanics of both universes and how they would interact with eachother.
Sorry DS ^_^
Getting a job as an architect, engineer, or rookie police officer?
That... that is... That is so like Shirou it hurts.
I always wondered whether Shirou would become a doctor, lawyer, or police officer if the events of Fate/Stay Night hadn't happened. You know, somebody who either builds things, heals people, or fights evil on the street or in the court room. Hmm, maybe he would've gone into a more extreme form like Doctors Without Borders or Emergency Rescue... hehe.
Here, it's just that he doesn't necesarily have to hide his full supernatural nature. So he can make use of it in engineering or forensics.
That... that is... That is so like Shirou it hurts.
I always wondered whether Shirou would become a doctor, lawyer, or police officer if the events of Fate/Stay Night hadn't happened. You know, somebody who either builds things, heals people, or fights evil on the street or in the court room. Hmm, maybe he would've gone into a more extreme form like Doctors Without Borders or Emergency Rescue... hehe.
Here, it's just that he doesn't necesarily have to hide his full supernatural nature. So he can make use of it in engineering or forensics.
I think you guys are all forgetting one major fact involved in regards to Accelerator countering Shirou's Noble Phantasms.
The Ether element the phantasms themselves are composed of.
I'll admit, given enough time and examples, Accelerator can probably learn to deal with it similarly to how he handled dark matter eventually. However, that doesn't change the face, that the abilities and very nature of the traced NP are all given a whole new element and with it a ridiculously huge number of factors to account for. How does one use vectors to emulate servant luck scores which is itself defined as ability to Defy Fate? How does one deal with subtle interlacing of prana that also fills the excaliblasts? How would one stop the invocation of miracles created by Durandal?
I'm NOT saying Accelerator couldn't find counters for all these eventually as he was able to figure out the physics of dark matter. What I'm saying, is that he wouldn't be able to do so right away, and might in fact have to recalculate with each new Noble Phantasm he met as they are all literally crystalized miracles that transcend humanity and the mortal coil.
The Ether element the phantasms themselves are composed of.
I'll admit, given enough time and examples, Accelerator can probably learn to deal with it similarly to how he handled dark matter eventually. However, that doesn't change the face, that the abilities and very nature of the traced NP are all given a whole new element and with it a ridiculously huge number of factors to account for. How does one use vectors to emulate servant luck scores which is itself defined as ability to Defy Fate? How does one deal with subtle interlacing of prana that also fills the excaliblasts? How would one stop the invocation of miracles created by Durandal?
I'm NOT saying Accelerator couldn't find counters for all these eventually as he was able to figure out the physics of dark matter. What I'm saying, is that he wouldn't be able to do so right away, and might in fact have to recalculate with each new Noble Phantasm he met as they are all literally crystalized miracles that transcend humanity and the mortal coil.
I'm not sure Accelerator could adapt to something so potentially broken as Durandal. By that, I mean the miracles granted by Durandal, not the sword itself, which could allow things that are just impossible to happen. Like, for instance, going through Accelerator's Vector Manipulation, despite his utmost efforts to deflect Durandal.
Of course, this depends on what is a miracle in Nasu-verse terms, seeing as "God" can't be bothered to interfere within Creation to produce these 3 miracles, if I recall correctly the lore about said "God".Supposing Durandal allows three instances of True Magic/Sorcery to occur and defy the very fundamentals laws of reality, Accelerator could indeed be screwed.
But, as others have pointed out, that's immaterial, seeing as Shirou isn't a murdering bastard.
Of course, this depends on what is a miracle in Nasu-verse terms, seeing as "God" can't be bothered to interfere within Creation to produce these 3 miracles, if I recall correctly the lore about said "God".Supposing Durandal allows three instances of True Magic/Sorcery to occur and defy the very fundamentals laws of reality, Accelerator could indeed be screwed.
But, as others have pointed out, that's immaterial, seeing as Shirou isn't a murdering bastard.
if anyone gets to wield the first magic AKA denial of nothingness he/she/it would be seriously OP, and taking into consideration that we know one person who is practically a living manifestation of it and almost all his taumathurgy is based around that concept,
he is the one closest to the first magic.
he is the one closest to the first magic.
He's been refered to as being close to the first, but he's rediculously specailized, and HE ISN'T THERE. He gets close by cheating with his Reality Marble, but that resticts him to appliactions that fall far short of the full grandure of the First, and he won't ever become broader, becuase he can only get as close as he does through that Reality Marble.
Shirou's tracing is the closest thing to the First that Rin has seen. It is also nothing like it in actuality. Shirou is shaping prana. With blades and his one shield, he is doing so at a level of detail that is absurd.
However, the first is Denial of Nothingness. As in the user saying that this thing cannot not exist, and it popping into reality. It is quite literally rejecting reality and rewriting it to your own compared to a reality marble's rejection and replacing.
However, the first is Denial of Nothingness. As in the user saying that this thing cannot not exist, and it popping into reality. It is quite literally rejecting reality and rewriting it to your own compared to a reality marble's rejection and replacing.
What the hell are you talking about?
The only gem that Rin has that contains magical energy from anyone but her is the pendant she uses to heal Shirou, and even then all that matters is that there's a lot of it, not that it's "old".
Well, could you please explain to those of us who actually understand basic physics how Saber could accelerate something which is only able to travel at one speed?
And don't say "she accelerates it to go faster than the speed of light", because that's not possible. Physics simply does not work that way, and if you're going to ignore physics then you can't use physically meaningful words like "accelerate" any more....
That's a false interpretation of what it means. I believe that what it is actually saying is that it accelerates the prana up to the speed of light (which is almost as absurd).
Actually, IIRC she stores actual spells in them (because she is limited by her own circuit capacity if she tries to draw the prana out and use it to perform a spell herself). The only exception to that (as far as I know) is the pendant. Although, she may be able to draw prana out of them for the purpose of using it for a spell.
Erm, no, that's simply not true. He couldn't use it simply because he's not Archer, and his life and mentality is very different. It had nothing specifically to do with giving up on his ideal (which, honestly, he never did anyway, because last time I checked "save everybody" doesn't mean "murder an entirely innocent girl in cold blood when she is still potentially saveable"). UBW Shirou could not use Archer's UBW any more than HF Shirou could (you can tell that by the fact that their Reality Marbles look very different).
It doesn't "follow a path to someone's heart". The minute Gae Bolg is activated, it has already hit the heart. All that remains is for the world to make up some plausible story for why it hit the heart. It cannot be blocked, full stop.
Rho Aias defends against the thrown version of Gae Bolg (which lacks the same "certain hit" ability), and further it can only do so because it has the concept of preventing all ranged attacks from hitting.
It must be "instantaneous", because if it were not then Fragarach would be able to defeat it. As soon as Lancer has invoked the technique, the spear has already hit, with no exceptions. Even reversing time and killing Lancer the instant before he attacked (which is what Fragarach does) couldn't stop it.
The only gem that Rin has that contains magical energy from anyone but her is the pendant she uses to heal Shirou, and even then all that matters is that there's a lot of it, not that it's "old".
Well, could you please explain to those of us who actually understand basic physics how Saber could accelerate something which is only able to travel at one speed?
And don't say "she accelerates it to go faster than the speed of light", because that's not possible. Physics simply does not work that way, and if you're going to ignore physics then you can't use physically meaningful words like "accelerate" any more....
That's a false interpretation of what it means. I believe that what it is actually saying is that it accelerates the prana up to the speed of light (which is almost as absurd).
Actually, IIRC she stores actual spells in them (because she is limited by her own circuit capacity if she tries to draw the prana out and use it to perform a spell herself). The only exception to that (as far as I know) is the pendant. Although, she may be able to draw prana out of them for the purpose of using it for a spell.
Erm, no, that's simply not true. He couldn't use it simply because he's not Archer, and his life and mentality is very different. It had nothing specifically to do with giving up on his ideal (which, honestly, he never did anyway, because last time I checked "save everybody" doesn't mean "murder an entirely innocent girl in cold blood when she is still potentially saveable"). UBW Shirou could not use Archer's UBW any more than HF Shirou could (you can tell that by the fact that their Reality Marbles look very different).
It doesn't "follow a path to someone's heart". The minute Gae Bolg is activated, it has already hit the heart. All that remains is for the world to make up some plausible story for why it hit the heart. It cannot be blocked, full stop.
Rho Aias defends against the thrown version of Gae Bolg (which lacks the same "certain hit" ability), and further it can only do so because it has the concept of preventing all ranged attacks from hitting.
It must be "instantaneous", because if it were not then Fragarach would be able to defeat it. As soon as Lancer has invoked the technique, the spear has already hit, with no exceptions. Even reversing time and killing Lancer the instant before he attacked (which is what Fragarach does) couldn't stop it.
HF shiro couldn't use UBW because one simple thing that has nothing to do with his supposed abandonemet of the ideal, it was because the fact that Archer's Circuits were killing him and his UBW and archers UBW were NOT compatible. meaning that he could enter Archer's UBW and His own UBW but at the moment of Deplying it UBW-route style they would clash, leaving Shiro deader.
and CL saving everybody in HF would mean Get Sakura out of range of everything alive so she doesn't kill them, anihilate Zoken, find a way to 'cleanse' Sakura and kick the shit out of AM. because as Spock said if needed to kill one to save hundreds, killing that one person is no matter how cruel or sad is the best option (unless you pull a Big Damn Heroes moment and save everyone at the last moment)
and CL saving everybody in HF would mean Get Sakura out of range of everything alive so she doesn't kill them, anihilate Zoken, find a way to 'cleanse' Sakura and kick the shit out of AM. because as Spock said if needed to kill one to save hundreds, killing that one person is no matter how cruel or sad is the best option (unless you pull a Big Damn Heroes moment and save everyone at the last moment)
I figured as much. All I was really doing was covering my bases and attempting to head off any other possible arguments that I could think of.
Anyhow, story looks fun and I'm wondering how Shirou's gonna react to the "level 6" experiment if he ever finds out about it. That's an almost guaranteed way to spark a fight between Shirou and Accelerator, therefore making this whole debate relevant to the story instead of being a thread jack.
Anyhow, story looks fun and I'm wondering how Shirou's gonna react to the "level 6" experiment if he ever finds out about it. That's an almost guaranteed way to spark a fight between Shirou and Accelerator, therefore making this whole debate relevant to the story instead of being a thread jack.
Doesn't matter. It's still not "saving everyone", which is Shirou's ideal. And, at the point when he made that decision, it was not such a clear choice.
Which is what Shirou did, ultimately. He never stood by and watched Sakura kill people, by the time he found out that she was it was already too late (and after that point she never killed anyone else, barring Kotomine, Zouken and Shinji, who damn well deserved it).
Which is what Shirou did, ultimately. He never stood by and watched Sakura kill people, by the time he found out that she was it was already too late (and after that point she never killed anyone else, barring Kotomine, Zouken and Shinji, who damn well deserved it).