Nasuverse Adventure in the Cedar Forest

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
However, that neglected an important detail: that he had been born second.
Heh...eheheh...

Everyone at court considered him a wastrel in that sense
Bwahahahahaha !

Oh god...the way you demolished Gil...that's...that's just...there are no words.:D
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
Gilgamesh without his history is like Excalibur without a legend. He's just the core potential that has not been realized. I don't think he'll be much of a threat.
 

Cyn

Active Member
Don't count Gil out just yet, he may not be the King of Heros anymore, but he still has some potential. How much and if it will be realized remains to be seen. After all, Shirou just dismissed Gil as a threat. Gil's going to be in the story some how, the question is how. Will he be the midboss? Will he get the team rocket travel plan? Maybe he'll find enough competence to be a serious enemy...
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
It's like I said. Without his history he's not Gilgamesh. But he can still carve out his personal history. Being ignored by a hero is a great place to start. He has to try if he's going to be capable of anything.
 

lethum

Well-Known Member
Shirou dismissed Gil as he was not the King of Heroes. But if Gilgamesh at 18 was a badass who had no equal in the original origin of the world, then Gil at 18 will be a badass who has no equal in the Cedar Forest world.

The question isn't, asuming that this isn't some lame copy, isn't "will this Gilgamesh be strong?" The question is, "when will this Gilgamesh show his strength?"

And if the answer is Actually, no/Actually, he won't to either of them, then I'll be very disappointed.
 
I think we're all forgetting something. The Grail was corrupted and only grants wishes that are likewise corrupted. Assuming Gil is the one who made the wish that led to Cedar Forests world, how was his wish corrupted and what were the direct consequences on him? Maybe the fact that he's got the world he wanted but he himself is somewhat the inverse of what he was is the the monkey's paw in action.
 

Nasuren

Well-Known Member
...actually, Gil seems weaker than Gilgamesh. You have to remember that Gilgamesh was 2/3's god, able to perform feats that are considered inhuman and claimed ownership to the ideas of his time.

Gil, on the other hand, seems to be human. Gilgamesh would be doubly insulted by being named the second prince, and would respond by tearing the palace apart before Babyowns the town on a good day.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
It said he had the soul of Gilgamesh, which would also mean he has the body of Gilgamesh even if it hadn't also been stated, due to Nasuverse mechanics. So unless it's just coming from Shirou being an unreliable narrator, he's as much Divine as he was before. Somehow.

It's not like he would have had anything test his physical capabilities before, so you can't judge him on everyone (including himself) thinking he's mundane up until this point.
 

Nasuren

Well-Known Member
...I highly doubt someone with A+ Charisma wouldn't be the king if he desired. We're talking about someone who tends to break rules like it's nothing to the point that he has a freakin' sub in GOB way before it was invented.

Considering that popular opinion of him is low, I highly doubt that his Charisma is in effect. The problem is it's his highest ability tied with his Independent Action skill.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
Charisma is leadership ability, not mind control. The skill itself as given in Fate doesn't even make people like him more, just makes him a great king or commander. I mean, Altria didn't have much less and she wasn't exactly the most loved.

Regardless, his charisma had absolutely nothing to do with his Divinity, but with his mind and personality, so are you just arguing this guy is merely a lookalike?
 

Aarik

Well-Known Member
Could just be Gil's reincarnation.

Given how souls work in nasuverse that could make sense.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
It couldn't make sense actually. Reincarnation in the Nasuverse is more akin to having your soul chopped into fine paste and fed into the soul vat to be redistributed.

The only thing that really gets reincarnated is the origin, which unless you're a slimy bastard like Roa isn't going to mean much in regards to maintaining the rest of what made you you.

Whatever is going on with this guy is not standard nasuvese reincarnation.
 

Aarik

Well-Known Member
I was more referring to some of the things Gil himself said about seeking Enkidu's reincarnation.

If I had to guess, since Gil knew an almost disturbing amount about everything, he knows that souls are ground up, so there must be a reason he thought Enkidu would have one, and I'm relatively sure there is at least one NP for reincarnation, since it's such a big part of some large religions, so there must be mythic artifacts pertaining to it, which would mean even odds Gil has one, and if he did, he would have used it on Enkidu after he died.

Most likely on himself as well in this story.

Some NP soul fuckery is the only way I can think of for him to have incarnated as a prince of the kingdom.

That or the Grail being a dick, but the Grail has proven in canon to be unable to do much of shit to Gil.

Word of Nasu: Nothing Controls Gilgamesh.
 

Nasuren

Well-Known Member
Aarik said:
Word of Nasu: Nothing Controls Gilgamesh.
Even Gilgamesh can't control Gilgamesh. Amazing that for all his power, his own ego can easily bring him down.

Charisma is leadership ability, not mind control. The skill itself as given in Fate doesn't even make people like him more, just makes him a great king or commander. I mean, Altria didn't have much less and she wasn't exactly the most loved.
It's the talent to command an army, part of which could be described as the ability to command. Plus-

A+: At this point it is no longer popularity, but rather a kind of spell (curse) in itself.
Implies that popularity could be a part of it.
 
Aarik said:
Word of Nasu: Nothing Controls Gilgamesh.
It can't effect his mind or soul but it has been canonly able to fuck with his body, giving him one of flesh in Zero and reclaiming it in UBW which incidentally killed him.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
He allowed it the first time and he died the second time. Neither of them was an issue of losing control.
 

Vanigo

Well-Known Member
This isn't losing control, either; it's "whoops, your reincarnation is a bog-standard human".
 

Nasuren

Well-Known Member
The soul doesn't matter if the cause of the whole thing is a filled(?) grail.

At full power, the grail is a connection to root itself that allows the user to mess with the Akashic Record itself. Considering that the whole thing keeps the soul of the original Gilgamesh from the reincarnation cycle, do you think that FSN Gil has a chance to say no if it bitch slaps him to mortal status?
 
There's also the fact that Nasu mechanics might not be quite up to snuff here. Remember according to Nasu, the power of humanity is inversely proportional to it's size. By Nasuverse (anti)logic every human in this story should be capable of bitchslapping godzilla.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
Nasuren said:
The soul doesn't matter if the cause of the whole thing is a filled(?) grail.

At full power, the grail is a connection to root itself that allows the user to mess with the Akashic Record itself. Considering that the whole thing keeps the soul of the original Gilgamesh from the reincarnation cycle, do you think that FSN Gil has a chance to say no if it bitch slaps him to mortal status?
You're seriously over-hyping the Grail here.

Master of Squirrel-Fu said:
Remember according to Nasu, the power of humanity is inversely proportional to it's size.
That's according to a bunch of people assuming shit, not Nasu.
 

Nasuren

Well-Known Member
Amodelsino said:
Nasuren said:
The soul doesn't matter if the cause of the whole thing is a filled(?) grail.

At full power, the grail is a connection to root itself that allows the user to mess with the Akashic Record itself. Considering that the whole thing keeps the soul of the original Gilgamesh from the reincarnation cycle, do you think that FSN Gil has a chance to say no if it bitch slaps him to mortal status?
You're seriously over-hyping the Grail here.

Master of Squirrel-Fu said:
Remember according to Nasu, the power of humanity is inversely proportional to it's size.
That's according to a bunch of people assuming shit, not Nasu.
I tend to disagree. You seem to miss the point of 'a connection to the Akashic Record' and 'the Akashic Record is strong enough to hold the original Gil's soul on the throne'. When the Root does something, even Gil is an ant compared to it.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
It can be used punch a hole to Akasha with a full servant load and no wish used, it isn't some entity that messes with it at will. It doesn't mess with anything at will, since it's a corrupted wish granting machine.

If it was as powerful (and as free willed) as you think it is, it wouldn't be so hard for it to get Angra Mainyu into the world. Also the universe wouldn't exist.
 

Nasuren

Well-Known Member
Amodelsino said:
It can punch a hole to Akasha with a full servant load and no wish used, it isn't some entity that messes with it at will. It doesn't mess with anything at will, since it's a corrupted wish granting machine.
I'm stating the Grail, as a tool, can bitch slap Gilgamesh's soul to mortal level with mortal abilities and mortal stats. Considering that there are numerous things in the Titian-verse that can't really be explained except without the use of the Grail means that it must had been used.

Well, either that or on the same level of power. ORT is immediately disqualified.
 
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