Nasuverse Archer question
- Thread starter ttestagr
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The way I see it, it's all about brand recognition.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but the basic requirements to becoming an eirei basically burns down to:
1. Have the world acknowledge that you are one of the best examples that humanity has to offer. (a very....VERY tall order in the modern age)
2. Have an item/skill/way of attacking that is completely unique to yourself that has enough mystery in it to qualify as a NP.
We all know that Shirou's ability is unique enough to quaify as a NP (as exemplified by Archer), all that's left then is to gain the acknowledgement of the world.
So...he either has to burn his name, face and abilities as an unshakable existence into the hearts and minds of all humanity a.k.a. The I AM LEGEND route. Or, accomplish a feat so astounding that it directly threatens the world...that Gaia will have no choice but WANT to leash Shirou to her a.k.a. The IN YOUR FACE! BEYOTCH!! route.
Either way would be fun to write about....since it will definitely evolve into a Shirou against the world fic.
Option 1 will definitely put him in direct contention with the clock tower and magecraft users everywhere...as he's basically smashing their statute of secrecy rule. While Option 2 will put him at odds with the church and whatever Gaia can throw at him.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but the basic requirements to becoming an eirei basically burns down to:
1. Have the world acknowledge that you are one of the best examples that humanity has to offer. (a very....VERY tall order in the modern age)
2. Have an item/skill/way of attacking that is completely unique to yourself that has enough mystery in it to qualify as a NP.
We all know that Shirou's ability is unique enough to quaify as a NP (as exemplified by Archer), all that's left then is to gain the acknowledgement of the world.
So...he either has to burn his name, face and abilities as an unshakable existence into the hearts and minds of all humanity a.k.a. The I AM LEGEND route. Or, accomplish a feat so astounding that it directly threatens the world...that Gaia will have no choice but WANT to leash Shirou to her a.k.a. The IN YOUR FACE! BEYOTCH!! route.
Either way would be fun to write about....since it will definitely evolve into a Shirou against the world fic.
Option 1 will definitely put him in direct contention with the clock tower and magecraft users everywhere...as he's basically smashing their statute of secrecy rule. While Option 2 will put him at odds with the church and whatever Gaia can throw at him.
He might only be able to trace blades with UBW, but he can still trace everything else relatively normally. It's just that any complex components will wind up solidifying into a solid mass inside the outer shell.
Also, he'd be able to trace Zelretch's interdimensional supersword. If he does, and he implants it in his soul like Avalon was, he'd have effectively infinite Prana. With that effectively infinite Prana, he'd be able to pump so much power into his enhancement magic he'd basically become Superman.
I'm sure that Gil's vault has some sort of flight-granting Noble Phantasm. Trace up a suitable suit, and he could call himself Captain Justice. Becoming a Superhero is a good way to get a good Legend going.
Also, Archer might go and decide to encourage Shiro towards the Harem End. Shiro/Rin/Sakura/Arturia/Medusa, anyone?
Also, he'd be able to trace Zelretch's interdimensional supersword. If he does, and he implants it in his soul like Avalon was, he'd have effectively infinite Prana. With that effectively infinite Prana, he'd be able to pump so much power into his enhancement magic he'd basically become Superman.
I'm sure that Gil's vault has some sort of flight-granting Noble Phantasm. Trace up a suitable suit, and he could call himself Captain Justice. Becoming a Superhero is a good way to get a good Legend going.
Also, Archer might go and decide to encourage Shiro towards the Harem End. Shiro/Rin/Sakura/Arturia/Medusa, anyone?
I've never played any of the F/SN scenarios; I don't know where to get the game from, and in any case, I don't have access to my computer at the moment. I'm using one of my mother's, and I hardly want to download ero-games onto it. 
Everything I know about F/SN I learned from Wikipedia and the anime.
Everything I know about F/SN I learned from Wikipedia and the anime.
Meh. Kind of missing out then.
While the FSN anime is decent, well, let's just say it isn't the greatest. Not to mention it fails to give out all the 'rules' of FSN. Which is why the FSN players can easily bitchslap any one with their lack of info.
And of course, Wiki... yeah... not the most reliable source here. <_<
While the FSN anime is decent, well, let's just say it isn't the greatest. Not to mention it fails to give out all the 'rules' of FSN. Which is why the FSN players can easily bitchslap any one with their lack of info.
And of course, Wiki... yeah... not the most reliable source here. <_<
Can't Shirou trace Gilgamesh's short sword that acts as the key to the gate of babylon?
I know he saw it before.
Of course the treasury was mostly emptied after Gilgamesh's death since the weapons were spread across the world and gained legends/descendents.
Actually, following that logic, do you think Ea never left the treasury, since it was never known and never gained an actual name? And if Shirou uses the gates, he can take it?
Haha, just rambling my thoughts
I know he saw it before.
Of course the treasury was mostly emptied after Gilgamesh's death since the weapons were spread across the world and gained legends/descendents.
Actually, following that logic, do you think Ea never left the treasury, since it was never known and never gained an actual name? And if Shirou uses the gates, he can take it?
Haha, just rambling my thoughts
nick, I'm going to try and hold back my NERDRAGE and cover each of the points you made as thoroughly as I can. Anybody with more knowledge than I (I know you're out there) can feel free to correct us both.
Just keep in mind, Nasu's world is a very complex one, with very, VERY many confusing rules governing its function (and especially the way magic works). If you don't obey the rules, the stuff just doesn't work right, at best.
First, he CAN project other things than armaments. For example, Rho Aias, a shield Noble Phantasm.
Second, complexity or moving parts have nothing to do with it. It just so happens that all the "complex device" type of weapons came from an age where people didn't believe enough in the supernatural for them to become Noble Phantasms.
Hell, the way he has to project something - visualizing its ENTIRE internal structure, and projecting that along with the object's history/legend - means the relative complexity of the weapon is a moot point.
Shirou DID trace Zelretch's Jewel Sword in the Heaven's Feel route of the game. So yes, he'd be able.
However, I see no reason to believe that it would work this way. To take this the simplest way, Avalon has its effect just by being what it is, and near Arturia; the Jewel Sword of Zelretch has to be swung, and you can't do it if it's not in physical form.
Further, infinite Prana isn't as big a benefit as you might think. Using it causes damage and pain to the body; the more you use, the more it hurts. Eventually, you'd hit a ceiling where you can't use anymore without blowing yourself apart (in fact, Shirou very nearly did do this when he first projected Caliburn in Fate).
Or make oneself look like a tool.
More importantly, there's a good chance people might just think there's someone filming a movie or something. Can't really get a legend going that way, except maybe with the kids.
I will be forgiving of that idea, since it made me laugh at how stupid Shirou would look duded out like a comic book hero.
Harem fics are seldom done well outside the fandoms that pretty much demand it (such as Tenchi).
And even when they're supported by canon, it takes a hell of a lot more skill and effort to succeed at writing a polyamorous scenario than it does to write a standard one.
I don't know if he saw it or not. If he did, I'd bet he certainly WOULD have already gone into it.
There's also the possibility that, like Ea, the materials needed for its construction simply no longer exist, and thus UBW can't replicate it.
The "legends" of the "descendants" were something passed along by retelling of their stories and inserting their characteristics into new legends. The actual "original" weapons were never taken from the vault.
Remember, with a Noble Phantasm, it's not the weapon itself that matters; it's the concepts and legends it embodies.
Well, you came at this point from the wrong direction, but that's pretty much correct. Ea was always in the King's Treasure Vault, and if Shirou could use the Gates, he could use it.
Just keep in mind, Nasu's world is a very complex one, with very, VERY many confusing rules governing its function (and especially the way magic works). If you don't obey the rules, the stuff just doesn't work right, at best.
First, he CAN project other things than armaments. For example, Rho Aias, a shield Noble Phantasm.
Second, complexity or moving parts have nothing to do with it. It just so happens that all the "complex device" type of weapons came from an age where people didn't believe enough in the supernatural for them to become Noble Phantasms.
Hell, the way he has to project something - visualizing its ENTIRE internal structure, and projecting that along with the object's history/legend - means the relative complexity of the weapon is a moot point.
Shirou DID trace Zelretch's Jewel Sword in the Heaven's Feel route of the game. So yes, he'd be able.
However, I see no reason to believe that it would work this way. To take this the simplest way, Avalon has its effect just by being what it is, and near Arturia; the Jewel Sword of Zelretch has to be swung, and you can't do it if it's not in physical form.
Further, infinite Prana isn't as big a benefit as you might think. Using it causes damage and pain to the body; the more you use, the more it hurts. Eventually, you'd hit a ceiling where you can't use anymore without blowing yourself apart (in fact, Shirou very nearly did do this when he first projected Caliburn in Fate).
Or make oneself look like a tool.
More importantly, there's a good chance people might just think there's someone filming a movie or something. Can't really get a legend going that way, except maybe with the kids.
I will be forgiving of that idea, since it made me laugh at how stupid Shirou would look duded out like a comic book hero.
Harem fics are seldom done well outside the fandoms that pretty much demand it (such as Tenchi).
And even when they're supported by canon, it takes a hell of a lot more skill and effort to succeed at writing a polyamorous scenario than it does to write a standard one.
I don't know if he saw it or not. If he did, I'd bet he certainly WOULD have already gone into it.
There's also the possibility that, like Ea, the materials needed for its construction simply no longer exist, and thus UBW can't replicate it.
The "legends" of the "descendants" were something passed along by retelling of their stories and inserting their characteristics into new legends. The actual "original" weapons were never taken from the vault.
Remember, with a Noble Phantasm, it's not the weapon itself that matters; it's the concepts and legends it embodies.
Well, you came at this point from the wrong direction, but that's pretty much correct. Ea was always in the King's Treasure Vault, and if Shirou could use the Gates, he could use it.
First of all, shields are an armament.
ar?ma?ment
? ?/??rm?m?nt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-muh-muhnt] Show IPA Pronunciation
ûnoun
1. the arms and equipment with which a military unit or military apparatus is supplied.
2. a land, sea, or air force equipped for war.
3. armor (def. 5).
4. Usually, armaments. military strength collectively: the armaments race; a country without armaments.
5. the process of equipping or arming for war.
Origin:
1690û1700; < L arm?menta fittings, equiv. to arm?(re) to fit out (see arm 2 ) + -menta (pl.) -ment
And Shirou (Archer, too) can only trace armaments, be they bladed weapons (his usual) or other armaments (other armaments cost a lot more though; that's why it's called Unlimited Blade Works, not Unlimited Stuff Works).
Second of all, while yes, Shirou can use normal tracing. But normal tracing is useless, unless all you need is a shape. For example, a cup or teapot.
ar?ma?ment
? ?/??rm?m?nt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-muh-muhnt] Show IPA Pronunciation
ûnoun
1. the arms and equipment with which a military unit or military apparatus is supplied.
2. a land, sea, or air force equipped for war.
3. armor (def. 5).
4. Usually, armaments. military strength collectively: the armaments race; a country without armaments.
5. the process of equipping or arming for war.
Origin:
1690û1700; < L arm?menta fittings, equiv. to arm?(re) to fit out (see arm 2 ) + -menta (pl.) -ment
And Shirou (Archer, too) can only trace armaments, be they bladed weapons (his usual) or other armaments (other armaments cost a lot more though; that's why it's called Unlimited Blade Works, not Unlimited Stuff Works).
Second of all, while yes, Shirou can use normal tracing. But normal tracing is useless, unless all you need is a shape. For example, a cup or teapot.