Harry Potter Earl of the North

[e39042]

A few things:

This is Sirius Black, all he needs to do is turn himself in and he's going straight to maximum security. Committing a real crime under a false identity would seem a bit contrived. I think I prefer the Newspaper premise though. It doesn't matter that Harry went to the DoM to save Sirius in canon because it was Voldemort who was feeding him those visions. Voldemort just needs to give Harry another reason to go charging off heroically. As for the Patronus, he doesn't need to learn it. Third year's events would have never happened under this premise, and whilst it makes no fucking sense for Umbridge to send Dementors to Privet Drive in the first place, given Dumbledore's knowledge of Voldemort's return, I'm sure he has arranged for somebody to be responsible for Harry's protection.

I like the Frost Giants idea. I haven't read Earl of the North, but I keep seeing the term Snowbitches thrown around. I'm assuming in Earl of the North there is a tribe of extremely attractive, scantily clad snow women? This seems balls to the walls retarded to me. Give Harry a portion of the army he will need; an army of Frost Giants (Male and Female) and all but the saddest of readers will consider that a big improvement.

I'm not a big fan of the Evans line being descendant of an ancient line of Warlocks. It's too strange that such a magically powerful line would lie dormant for so long. I think Lily's mother should be the key. Perhaps a foreigner? Trips across the channel are fairly common holidays for Brits, so a French woman is very plausible. It's also realistic for the remnants of a noble line seeking sanctuary abroad to forget their heritage over a long period of time.

 

[sinewyk]

This is Sirius Black, all he needs to do is turn himself in and he's going straight to maximum security.

Wasn't fudge at the time calling for a "Kiss first, ask questions later" policy ? Sirius would get kissed as soon as he would turn himself in I recon. Imo it's a bad idea.

But still, if he escaped, there's got to be a way to come back if the plot demands it.

 

[Lord Raine]

I like the Frost Giants idea. I haven't read Earl of the North, but I keep seeing the term Snowbitches thrown around. I'm assuming in Earl of the North there is a tribe of extremely attractive, scantily clad snow women? This seems balls to the walls retarded to me. Give Harry a portion of the army he will need; an army of Frost Giants (Male and Female) and all but the saddest of readers will consider that a big improvement.

They're basically snow elves. Like, Tolkien elves, only blue with white hair. They have an entire civilization somewhere 'up north' in some vaguely defined region between Norway and Doesn't-Give-A-Fuck. And I don't mean a small one, either. But they're supposedly very insular, so apparently no one ever really sees them or knows about them or anything.

It's basically snow elves straight out of the left field is what they are in the original. I found that pretty absurd and kind of wankish, so after thinking about it awhile, I decided that Frost Giants would be a lot cooler. And more badass.

 

[e39042]

This is Sirius Black, all he needs to do is turn himself in and he's going straight to maximum security.

Wasn't fudge at the time calling for a "Kiss first, ask questions later" policy ? Sirius would get kissed as soon as he would turn himself in I recon. Imo it's a bad idea.

But still, if he escaped, there's got to be a way to come back if the plot demands it.

Some time during 1996 (second half of Fifth Year through to the end of the first half of Sixth Year) the Dementors left Azkaban and joined Voldemort. Scrimgeour was also appointed Minister of Magic in June of 1996. Depending on when Harry is sentenced to prison, there may not be any Dementors left to kiss Sirius, or if Voldemort delays his plans, Ministry policy may have changed (assuming Fudge does not retain his job).

 

[Lord Raine]

I've been mulling over the opening plot and how I want this to lay out, and one idea I just had that I thought I'd put out there for discussion is the idea that maybe it gets out that Harry used the Cruciatus on Bellatrix.

Even if she deserves it, he still used an Unforgivable on another human being. You know what that means. Mandatory Life Sentence.

That could even explain why Harry ends up in the same cell as Sirius. Harry is sent to the same wing that Sirius is, i.e. the area of Azkaban for 'lifers' who will never get out.

What do you guys think? I think it could work. I actually think it could work really well. The only question is how to get that out there that he's done it.

Maybe. . . maybe Fudge drags Harry to court for breaking and entering into the Department of Mysteries. Harry has to give an account. Somewhere along the way, he's forced to take Veritiserum, and one of the questions leads to the revelation that Harry dueled Bellatrix and used the Cruciatus on her.

This naturally causes a huge uproar. On the one hand, Unforgivables constitute a mandatory life sentence to Azakban. On the other hand, it's a confirmation that there were Death Eaters involved, and that Harry used the Unforgivable against an infamous Death Eater that everybody hates. Barty Crouch's revisions to the laws during the first war approved the use of Unforgivables against Death Eaters, but that law isn't actually in effect anymore, because the Death Eaters are assumed to be disbanded.

So there's this big issue of whether or not Harry could legally get away with Crucioing Bellatrix. Naturally, Fudge hates Harry at this point and wants to do whatever he can to destroy him, so he pulls all of his weight to shut the debate down and get Harry convicted.

Cue Azkaban.

What do you guys think?

 

[e39042]

I've been mulling over the opening plot and how I want this to lay out, and one idea I just had that I thought I'd put out there for discussion is the idea that maybe it gets out that Harry used the Cruciatus on Bellatrix.

Even if she deserves it, he still used an Unforgivable on another human being. You know what that means. Mandatory Life Sentence.

That could even explain why Harry ends up in the same cell as Sirius. Harry is sent to the same wing that Sirius is, i.e. the area of Azkaban for 'lifers' who will never get out.

What do you guys think? I think it could work. I actually think it could work really well. The only question is how to get that out there that he's done it.

Maybe. . . maybe Fudge drags Harry to court for breaking and entering into the Department of Mysteries. Harry has to give an account. Somewhere along the way, he's forced to take Veritiserum, and one of the questions leads to the revelation that Harry dueled Bellatrix and used the Cruciatus on her.

This naturally causes a huge uproar. On the one hand, Unforgivables constitute a mandatory life sentence to Azakban. On the other hand, it's a confirmation that there were Death Eaters involved, and that Harry used the Unforgivable against an infamous Death Eater that everybody hates. Barty Crouch's revisions to the laws during the first war approved the use of Unforgivables against Death Eaters, but that law isn't actually in effect anymore, because the Death Eaters are assumed to be disbanded.

So there's this big issue of whether or not Harry could legally get away with Crucioing Bellatrix. Naturally, Fudge hates Harry at this point and wants to do whatever he can to destroy him, so he pulls all of his weight to shut the debate down and get Harry convicted.

Cue Azkaban.

What do you guys think?

Sounds good, but I would use the Priori Incantatem to reveal Harry's usage of the Cruciatus. After that you can bring the Veritiserum into the mix to confirm that it was indeed Harry who cast it.

Edit: Actually, pondering it further, why would Harry use the curse if Sirius had not died?

 

[Lord Raine]

I've been mulling over the opening plot and how I want this to lay out, and one idea I just had that I thought I'd put out there for discussion is the idea that maybe it gets out that Harry used the Cruciatus on Bellatrix.

Even if she deserves it, he still used an Unforgivable on another human being. You know what that means. Mandatory Life Sentence.

That could even explain why Harry ends up in the same cell as Sirius. Harry is sent to the same wing that Sirius is, i.e. the area of Azkaban for 'lifers' who will never get out.

What do you guys think? I think it could work. I actually think it could work really well. The only question is how to get that out there that he's done it.

Maybe. . . maybe Fudge drags Harry to court for breaking and entering into the Department of Mysteries. Harry has to give an account. Somewhere along the way, he's forced to take Veritiserum, and one of the questions leads to the revelation that Harry dueled Bellatrix and used the Cruciatus on her.

This naturally causes a huge uproar. On the one hand, Unforgivables constitute a mandatory life sentence to Azakban. On the other hand, it's a confirmation that there were Death Eaters involved, and that Harry used the Unforgivable against an infamous Death Eater that everybody hates. Barty Crouch's revisions to the laws during the first war approved the use of Unforgivables against Death Eaters, but that law isn't actually in effect anymore, because the Death Eaters are assumed to be disbanded.

So there's this big issue of whether or not Harry could legally get away with Crucioing Bellatrix. Naturally, Fudge hates Harry at this point and wants to do whatever he can to destroy him, so he pulls all of his weight to shut the debate down and get Harry convicted.

Cue Azkaban.

What do you guys think?

Sounds good, but I would use the Priori Incantatem to reveal Harry's usage of the Cruciatus. After that you can bring the Veritiserum into the mix to confirm that it was indeed Harry who cast it.

Edit: Actually, pondering it further, why would Harry use the curse if Sirius had not died?

Maybe someone else did. Or maybe his friends just got really hurt. Maybe Neville tried to fight her alone or something to avenge his parents, and Harry saw her take him apart, Crucio him, and then cripple him (take an arm off or something).

Harry is pretty hardcore about his friends. If he saw someone like Neville or Luna get killed or nearly killed while trying to help him, I'm fairly confident he would go to his Blind Fury Place.

The part that I'm concerned about is my characterization of Harry, Dumbledore, the current magical world, and to a lesser extent, Hermione and Ron. A big part about what I want to do involves it being obvious that what is being done to Harry is, in fact, a massive miscarriage of justice. A clear weighing of the system in favor of the whim of the Minister. That sets up Harry to hate everything about the current magical society and government, provides the Old World vs New World dynamic between Harry and Dumbledore (who may not agree with Fudge in any way but still wants to keep the magical government mostly the way it is), and gives Hermione and Ron the schism that I want to happen.

If, however, Harry actually uses an Unforgivable, all of the above falls apart, because like it or not, Harry would actually deserve to go to Azkaban in that particular scenario. It wouldn't be a massive and obvious miscarriage of justice to sentence Harry to a life term in Azkaban. Even if it's karmically appealing to nail Bellatrix with a Crucio, it's still not just. The law has to protect everyone equally, Bellatrix included, so Harry's imprisonment would just be a tragic but sadly deserved punishment, as opposed to a horrific abuse of power and a clear indicator that the current regime and everything about it is corrupt.

The problem is, the accusation of using an Unforgivable works in the sense that it explains why Harry and Sirius could potentially end up in the same cell (they're both lifers), but if Harry actually uses one, then the necessary massive miscarriage of justice angle disappears.

Unless. . .

What if Fudge accuses Harry of using an Unforgivable, and Harry didn't actually do one?

Eh. That could work, but I'm struggling to come up with a believable way it could. Fudge can get away with shoddy arguments and blustering, because that's all he did in OotP, and he still almost railroaded Harry into Azkaban just for an underage magic charge. But it can't be a totally retarded argument, because otherwise it just won't fly at all. Fudge can cheat, but he can't look like a total imbecile, because that destroys the realism.

Fudge threw Veritiserum out in canon on the grounds that it was 'unnecessary' (plus, in canon, Veritiserum can be resisted and even thrown off if you have adequate time to prepare yourself mentally, so Harry's request for it could be denied based solely on the fact that Harry requested it), so any request for Veritiserum could be denied here as well. That just leaves the evidence itself up in the air. Last time it was Harry's word that was called into question (I was protecting myself from Dementors), so if we can just whittle it down to Harry's word again, then Fudge can plausibly win and put him away.

Harry's wand is the dealbreaker. If they use his wand, then it'll show that Harry never cast an Unforgivable, and Fudge's argument falls apart. He could still get Harry in on the grounds of trespassing into the DoM, but it wouldn't be a life sentence, and that kills the Sirius angle.

So, if the wand is the problem. . . let's just remove it from the equation entirely. Harry was in a pitched battle against Death Eaters and, at one point, Voldemort.

At some point near the end, either when fighting Bellatrix or resisting Voldemort, Harry's wand breaks. Shatters. It gets destroyed. So the record of what spells he did and did not use is gone. It cannot be verified.

We know the Ministry has detection equipment in the building, and in the Atrium, even, and we know that, at least in the case of wands, it's specific enough that it can apparently tell magic apart from individual wands. There's the whole "wand weighing" thing when you first go in, after all. That has to be for something.

Voldemort and Harry have brother wands. If the Ministry can record or detect spells cast in the building, then they would pick up anything Voldemort and the Death Eaters used. If Voldemort used Unforgivables, and Harry's wand gets destroyed, then the recording might point towards it having been Harry who cast the spells that Voldemort used.

The only way for Harry to get out of it would be to prove that Voldemort is alive and was present at the Ministry, but if Voldemort left before the Ministry arrived in time to see him, then all that's going to be there is Harry, a bunch of his friends, and Dumbledore. And since none of Harry's friends were actually present in the Atrium, that means, once again, it is Harry and Dumbledore's word that Voldemort is alive and was there, and Fudge has been fighting and dismissing that for years now.

So it comes down to; do you believe Harry, or not?

Fudge says no, accuses Harry of using the Unforgivables. Harry protests, Fudge counters with his record of going out of bounds and breaking the rules. Harry requests Veriterisum, Fudge throws Veriterisum out. Harry makes his case, which, without evidence, obviously sounds fantastic. The Wizengamot puts it to a vote. Harry loses, gets saddled with the full blame, and takes a life sentence to Azkaban.

Yes. I'm starting to see how this could work. The only missing piece to Fudge's argument is that just using the Unforgivables doesn't carry a penalty. You can Imperio the wall or chickens all you want. You have to use them against another human to constitute the sentence.

So, what if Bellatrix fought Neville and used the Cruciatus on him, and then did something to seriously cripple him and knock him into a coma or some other state where he can't give any sort of statement or testimony? That gives someone on the scene Cruciatus damage, and the magical signature or aura or whatever that matches the spell is a twin to Harry's now-destroyed wand.

So Fudge pins the whole thing on Harry, including Neville's condition.

It's an extreme accusation, but it could definitely work, especially if the recording equipment or whatever it is that the Ministry uses doesn't go into the DoM itself. That makes sense, since the research there is a secret, and it would mean that the vast majority of the episode would have no evidence of it actually happening. It's only Harry's word that there was a massive run-and-gun battle against a bunch of Death Eaters. All the detector would show is Harry's magic using the Cruciatus curse, and there's a battered, Crucio'd Neville Longbottom incapable of giving testimony.

Fudge might actually be able to do it, provided it was pitched correctly. Plus, the entire room is weighted against Harry anyway, because a fair few members of the Wizengamot are Death Eaters themselves. They'll want to see Harry take the fall for this, and will do everything they can to pin it all on him, because the alternative is Voldemort being ousted. So the Death Eaters will be using their own influence and money to tilt the scales against Harry even while Fudge is doing the exact same thing. Fudge's argument isn't totally sound, but since the entire thing is put to a vote anyway, it doesn't necessarily have to be. A lot of the more inconvenient details of the event can be thrown out on the grounds of not being relevant to the trial of whether or not Harry actually did perform an Unforgivable on another human being, so it really, once again, boils down to Harry's word that he didn't do it.

What do you guys think about this? Comments, suggestions, ideas? I'm open for discussion on this.

 

[Hashasheen]

That's way too big of a leap to make to get Harry sent to Azkaban, and I'm not sure anyone would by Harry just up and did the Cruciatus to Neville when it just as easily could have been a Death Eater with a similiar wand. Which Harry could use to bolster his support by pointing out that Ollivander made another wand like his, which would then require him to be brought in, etc...

If you keep it simple (Harry does it to Bellatrix with his own wand after she nearly kills Neville), that sets up the greys of the situation and gives Fudge a chance to get on his high horse, stating "It does not matter if the victim was Bellatrix Lestrange or if it was done in righteous anger. The accused stands here having used an Unforgiveable. While public sympathy may lie on his side, the law does not and it is clear! Any illegal or unpermitted usage of an Unforgiveable on a human being is to be punished with a life sentence at Azkaban. No excuses, no exceptions, nothing but the upholdance of the law!"

 

[Lord Raine]

But then Fudge is technically right, and Harry actually deserves to go to Azkaban, which kills the entire "fuck magical culture, let's bring the whole thing down and start over" angle. I could still run with that, but then Harry would be a sympathetic villain protagonist, as opposed to a protagonist that is still heroic, honest, and good, but has been screwed over by politics and the system.

Harry needs to actually be innocent of any serious wrongdoing for this to work the way I want it to. I'm not adverse to making sweeping changes, especially since we're still in the planning stage, but I'd rather not throw away everything I've worked on thus far in regards to characterization. Especially since the Old World vs New World is the entire draw and foundation for the fic.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, though. So let's simplify. Harry gets accused of using an Unforgivable on a human being. He didn't. Fudge pushes through and makes it Harry's word versus some evidence that he has that strongly points towards Harry doing it.

What can we do to make it seem as though Harry used the Cruciatus on a human when he actually didn't?

I still like the detection equipment angle, so working from that, what if Harry and Bellatrix disarmed each other and then used each other's wands? Harry's wand, and thus as far as the equipment can tell, Harry, cast the Cruciatus curse on Bellatrix (and maybe the Imperius too, depending on how Bellatrix dueled). Harry's wand then got destroyed, and Bellatrix retrieved her own. That leaves a record of Harry using an Unforgivable in a duel, but since his own wand was destroyed, and the only wand that could support his argument (Bellatrix's) is gone, it becomes purely Harry's word versus the monitoring devices that he didn't do it.

 

[e39042]

Thinking about it more, I agree that Harry needs to be the victim here. Legally, casting an unforgivable doesn't leave Harry with a leg to stand on. There is no justifiable reason for doing something unforgivable. Harry needs to be falsely accused of something that passes the plausibility test (torturing his friend does not) whilst is simultaneously severe enough to land him in the Lifer wing.

The one point you (Raine) keep coming back to is that in canon Fudge was nearly able to convict Harry without a witness. I think the answer lies here. All that is required is a 'supposedly' reliable witness to testify against Harry.

Queue Lucious Malfoy. If he is to testify against Harry then it is important he cannot be tied to the events that transpire at the DoM. Malfoy is too valuable a piece for Voldemort to use as recklessly as he did in canon. His forte is not leading secret operations into the DoM. His worth comes from his political and financial connections as the Head of the Malfoy family.

Now we just need something to accuse Harry of. I would suggest Murder. It's the only thing we know for sure lands you in the same wing as Sirius would be in. The only problem is nobody would believe Harry would kill one of his friends.

Perhaps an Unspeakable under the influence of the Imperius? All we need after that is for Harry's wand to end up in Voldemort's grasp long enough for him to cast the Killing Curse on the Unspeakable in question. Dumbledore arrives and Voldemort is forced to flee, this time escaping with all of his Death Eaters.

Harry gets his wand back, and the Priori Incantatem is used on his wand to show it had been used to kill. Malfoy takes to the stands and agrees to take a dose of Veritiserum which he is fully capable of resisting. He then informs the judging panel that he was present during the entire affair (checking the progress on one of his numerous investments?) and that Harry was responsible for the Unspeakable's death.

Perhaps one of Harry's classmates could also testify (blackmailed perhaps?) to say that Harry had managed to fully resist the Imperius Curse in class on his first attempt, thereby ruling out the possibility of Harry being under the influence of that particular curse, and also providing enough doubt over the effectiveness of Veritiserum for it to be justifiably (in the eyes of the law) withheld from Harry's testimony. In this case Malfoy's supposed susceptibility to the curse (the excuse he used to escape Azkaban last time) would work against Harry as there would be no reason to expect he would be capable of resisting Veritiserum either.

We're left with Harry's naked word vs. Lucious' Veritiserum backed word, and Fudge's rigging.

Thoughts?

 

[Python453]

I came up with an idea that you could choose to use or not use. Remember the trial at the beginning of Book 5? What if instead of it being for Harry using magic in front of a Muggle, Harry was accused of murdering Cedric Diggory?

It's not that far fetched. During the Triwizard Tournament, no one knew what was going on in that maze. Cedric couldn't have been killed by a magical creature or anything else because the teeth or claw marks would be there. And the only person who came out with Cedric's body was Harry Potter, who as far as Fudge is concerned is lying that Voldermort is back and as far as Fudge knows, every Death Eater Harry named is reformed. So, instead of a trial for use of magic in front of a Muggle, you could have it that Harry Potter is on trial for the murder of Cedric Diggory.

 

[e39042]

I came up with an idea that you could choose to use or not use. Remember the trial at the beginning of Book 5? What if instead of it being for Harry using magic in front of a Muggle, Harry was accused of murdering Cedric Diggory?

It's not that far fetched. During the Triwizard Tournament, no one knew what was going on in that maze. Cedric couldn't have been killed by a magical creature or anything else because the teeth or claw marks would be there. And the only person who came out with Cedric's body was Harry Potter, who as far as Fudge is concerned is lying that Voldermort is back and as far as Fudge knows, every Death Eater Harry named is reformed. So, instead of a trial for use of magic in front of a Muggle, you could have it that Harry Potter is on trial for the murder of Cedric Diggory.

This actually works perfectly timeline wise. Sirius is alive, and Voldemort has returned. I'd recommend a timeskip if you go with it though.

 

[Black's Phoenix]

If you want to do something to get Harry thrown into jail that would work you could always have it happen at Hogwarts shortly after Dumbledore flees the castle. Umbridge finds a reason to put Harry in detention and he does dark magic, nothing like the Cruciatis but enough to push Harry to Azkaban. The reason this works is that Dumbledore is on the run so he doesn't have the means to help Harry and as Umbridge is a ministry official supporting Fudge they would take her word over Harry's. No need for priori incantum or veritiserum.

Naturally from this you can have a schism between Hermione and Ron over dark magic and the whole old world dark arts vs new world realism. From this the dementors are out of Azkaban and then Sirius gets himself "captured" and sent back to prison. Then you can keep Voldemore in the shadows a while longer while Harry gets the chance to escape.

 

[sinewyk]

Harry accused of Cedric's murder works well.

With the double cross (Voldemort takes his wand, kill someone with it), the whole "friend" testifying that Harry can throw an Imperius off could be Ron being bought with money and trickery, which would also result in the schism you want: a random guy comes with money upfront talk to Ron, and say that it will help Harry to testify that he can throw an Imperius off, presenting money to gloss over the facts (Ron and Harry didn't have time to talk) and Ron both wanting to help Harry and get rich agrees. Harry being thrown in prison for life because Ron made an error or overlooked something because of his greed will likely result with the fall out you need(want?) between Hermione and Ron.

Well, that's the best I came up with.

 

[Hashasheen]

But then Fudge is technically right, and Harry actually deserves to go to Azkaban, which kills the entire "fuck magical culture, let's bring the whole thing down and start over" angle. I could still run with that, but then Harry would be a sympathetic villain protagonist, as opposed to a protagonist that is still heroic, honest, and good, but has been screwed over by politics and the system.

Harry needs to actually be innocent of any serious wrongdoing for this to work the way I want it to. I'm not adverse to making sweeping changes, especially since we're still in the planning stage, but I'd rather not throw away everything I've worked on thus far in regards to characterization. Especially since the Old World vs New World is the entire draw and foundation for the fic.

Fair enough, though I'd make the argument that Harry is still getting screwed over here, and is more a victim of politics (dating back to his first year at Hogwarts) and the inherent corruption of the system. The fact that he did use the Unforgiveable and in some form did deserve punishment could be a central focus to his early character development as well as that of his friends and allies outside Azkaban, while still maintaining the fact that Fudge didn't exactly push for Azakaban due to a love of law but rather to maintain his position (in cocordonace with hard-liner purists and Death Eater sympathisers in the Wizengamot), and that the ministry as a whole has been guilty of supporting such acts against the Death Eaters. It's less a simple case of right and wrong and more than another example of the corruption, backhanded politics and attitudes of the current political system.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, though. So let's simplify. Harry gets accused of using an Unforgivable on a human being. He didn't. Fudge pushes through and makes it Harry's word versus some evidence that he has that strongly points towards Harry doing it.

What can we do to make it seem as though Harry used the Cruciatus on a human when he actually didn't?

Possession by Voldemort, perhaps? He doesn't actually want to reveal himself to the public after all, so he goes with possession over actually being there and goes toe to toe with Dumbledore for a few rounds using his meat-suit. Dumbledore + Harry kick him out, and Harry collapses before Fudge and co. arrive. When he wakes up, he finds he's being accussed of Unforgiveable usage, with his only defense being "I was possessed" being laughed out of court.

Considering Fudge seemed to be running with 'Sirius Black is the main threat!', you could have him spin it as Sirius regathering Death Eater elements to attack the ministry, thus keeping Voldemort's name out of it, and still having Harry unfairly punished for having committed use of the Unforgiveables.

Otherwise, python's idea of starting it at the beginning of the 5th book and focusing on the murder of Cedric Diggory works just as well.

 

[Lord Raine]

I like the murder charge idea. The problem is that it happens too soon. Fudge doesn't start seriously hating Harry until well after the end of fourth year. Even in the weeks after the tournament, he has no reason to railroad Harry into Azkaban. It took time for Fudge to get to that point.

Plus, the longer I can hold off on it happening, the older Harry is. This needs to be a Harry that is as close to an adult as possible, for reasons that I've already stated elsewhere in the thread.

Maybe Fudge realized later that he could charge Harry for murder? I mean, we know nothing about wizarding law. There's nothing to say he could try Harry for underage magic, lose, get seriously pissed, and then realize that he can blame Cedric's murder on Harry.

 

[Deathwings]

Random though that could work : instead of sending dementors, Umbridge send actual assassins/mercs after Harry. Their orders however isn't to kill him because even with the smear campaign, Harry dying run the risk of making him a martyr. No, Harry's reputation need to be irremediably shattered. That why the mercs only knock him out and then use some obscure gadget or another to make it look like Harry really killed Dudley in the alley.

Between the doctored proofs and Fudge eagerness to get rid of him, Harry is send to Azkabam despite Dumbeldore best effort to get some time to do a proper investigation and prove Harry's innocence.

As for Sirius, why couldn't he just sneak back in Azkabam the same way he sneaked out ? From what I remember, his escape route was never discovered, so it could still possibly exist.

Most of the other ideas on how Sirius get to Harry just sound overly complicated and/or contrived to me. :huh.:

 

[Obfuscated]

I like the murder charge idea. The problem is that it happens too soon. Fudge doesn't start seriously hating Harry until well after the end of fourth year. Even in the weeks after the tournament, he has no reason to railroad Harry into Azkaban. It took time for Fudge to get to that point.

Plus, the longer I can hold off on it happening, the older Harry is. This needs to be a Harry that is as close to an adult as possible, for reasons that I've already stated elsewhere in the thread.

Maybe Fudge realized later that he could charge Harry for murder? I mean, we know nothing about wizarding law. There's nothing to say he could try Harry for underage magic, lose, get seriously pissed, and then realize that he can blame Cedric's murder on Harry.

Maybe something from column a, something from column b ?

Unlike canon Harry doesn't beat the charges completly. Maybe Fudge(Malfoy) had some more success in gathering votes, maybe Dumbledore thought it would further the Greater Good somehow but in the the Wizengamot confiscates Harry's wand till the next school year.

This gives Fudge(Malfoy) access to the wand.

 

[nairit]

I like the murder charge idea. The problem is that it happens too soon. Fudge doesn't start seriously hating Harry until well after the end of fourth year. Even in the weeks after the tournament, he has no reason to railroad Harry into Azkaban. It took time for Fudge to get to that point.

Plus, the longer I can hold off on it happening, the older Harry is. This needs to be a Harry that is as close to an adult as possible, for reasons that I've already stated elsewhere in the thread.

Maybe Fudge realized later that he could charge Harry for murder? I mean, we know nothing about wizarding law. There's nothing to say he could try Harry for underage magic, lose, get seriously pissed, and then realize that he can blame Cedric's murder on Harry.

Maybe something from column a, something from column b ?

Unlike canon Harry doesn't beat the charges completly. Maybe Fudge(Malfoy) had some more success in gathering votes, maybe Dumbledore thought it would further the Greater Good somehow but in the the Wizengamot confiscates Harry's wand till the next school year.

This gives Fudge(Malfoy) access to the wand.

You just lost all respect from me by that Greater Good crap. The whole point of DH was showing that Dumbledore didn't believe in that stuff anymore.

 

[Lord Raine]

I like the murder charge idea. The problem is that it happens too soon. Fudge doesn't start seriously hating Harry until well after the end of fourth year. Even in the weeks after the tournament, he has no reason to railroad Harry into Azkaban. It took time for Fudge to get to that point.

Plus, the longer I can hold off on it happening, the older Harry is. This needs to be a Harry that is as close to an adult as possible, for reasons that I've already stated elsewhere in the thread.

Maybe Fudge realized later that he could charge Harry for murder? I mean, we know nothing about wizarding law. There's nothing to say he could try Harry for underage magic, lose, get seriously pissed, and then realize that he can blame Cedric's murder on Harry.

Maybe something from column a, something from column b ?

Unlike canon Harry doesn't beat the charges completly. Maybe Fudge(Malfoy) had some more success in gathering votes, maybe Dumbledore thought it would further the Greater Good somehow but in the the Wizengamot confiscates Harry's wand till the next school year.

This gives Fudge(Malfoy) access to the wand.

You just lost all respect from me by that Greater Good crap. The whole point of DH was showing that Dumbledore didn't believe in that stuff anymore.

Anymore? "For the Greater Good" was always Grindelwald's thing. Once Dumbledore realized what Grindelwald was hiding behind that justification, they parted ways.

Honestly, considering their history, accusing Dumbledore of doing something evil or abusive or otherwise corrupt because he thinks it's "for the Greater Good" may very well be one of the few ways of genuinely pissing him off. I would imagine that Dumbledore would likely hate the term, and anyone who used it to justify their actions.

 

[nairit]

Yeah, but what I was saying was that there is a time that Dumbledore believed in that Greater Good stuff, even if it was Grindelwald's shtick. But that was way before Harry's time.