Nasuverse Fate/Stay Updates
- Thread starter Master of Squirrel-Fu
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sworded said:
My take on it was Caster upsurping Sakura's role from HF...bad things are gonna happen. 
h43r:
h43r:
And if she can exercise any control over the thing, well, it might make the Shadow's attacks less random, more focused ... and more lethal to those that Caster has a grudge against.
The thing is, Caster is not made stronger by being corrupted (no servant is, they're always weaker). She'll be dangerous if (more like when) Sakura fulfills the contract and receives a connection to Akasha, but as it is the Shadow isn't any more dangerous than it would have been originally (plus, Saber >>>>>>>>>> Caster).
Caster never really struck me as a great tactician or strategist (every actual plotter in the war casually thought circles around her in one route or another), and True Assassin doesn't listen to the shadow anyway.
If anything it's less dangerous, because Zouken can't coordinate their movements anymore (if Caster has truly jacked control).
Caster never really struck me as a great tactician or strategist (every actual plotter in the war casually thought circles around her in one route or another), and True Assassin doesn't listen to the shadow anyway.
If anything it's less dangerous, because Zouken can't coordinate their movements anymore (if Caster has truly jacked control).
Yeah, uh. She'd be weaker if she got eaten and then spat out as a meatshield. But that's not what happened here.
Caster didn't get enslaved by the Shadow. She's teaming up with it. Full strength Caster, plus the Shadow, with the Shadow having direction. I mean, suppose Caster learns that Zouken's responsible for Kuzuki's death. And that this same mage tormented a certain girl to the point that...
Nightmarish teamups are the best teamups, aren't they?
Caster didn't get enslaved by the Shadow. She's teaming up with it. Full strength Caster, plus the Shadow, with the Shadow having direction. I mean, suppose Caster learns that Zouken's responsible for Kuzuki's death. And that this same mage tormented a certain girl to the point that...
Nightmarish teamups are the best teamups, aren't they?
That's exactly what happened. Caster's just manipulating the situation. She's still very much corrupted (in fact, it outright said she was in the text).
She's not full strength. She had the leyline before. The Shadow has to eat people to get power. It doesn't have a connection to Akasha to get unlimited power. Dark Sakura has that.
Plus, again, Saber >>>>>>>>> Caster. Just corrupting Caster is not suddenly going to make the Shadow more powerful than it was in canon.
This is hardly more nightmarish than a Shadow controlled by Zouken who has corrupted Saber.
She's not full strength. She had the leyline before. The Shadow has to eat people to get power. It doesn't have a connection to Akasha to get unlimited power. Dark Sakura has that.
Plus, again, Saber >>>>>>>>> Caster. Just corrupting Caster is not suddenly going to make the Shadow more powerful than it was in canon.
This is hardly more nightmarish than a Shadow controlled by Zouken who has corrupted Saber.
Firstly, once the Shadow becomes Dark Sakura, Dark Caster will benefit from the infinite prana Dark Sakura has, just like Saber did in Heaven's Feel; that's why Dark Saber was regenerating the way she was. While Dark Saber just got regeneration, boosted strength, and the ability to spam Excaliblasts from the infinite prana Dark Sakura gave her, Dark Caster is a magus from the Age of Gods. A magus from the Age of Gods, with infinite prana. We know that the ability of a master to supply prana has an effect on the capabilities of a Servant, even if they're otherwise well-fed; take a look at the difference between Saber's capabilities under Shirou (even right after prana-transfer sex) and under Rin. I would not be at all surprised if Caster's magic just went up a few notches.
And, hell, if Dark Sakura just got Dark Caster, I wonder if Dark Sakura's capable of using the Golden Fleece she just ate to spew forth a corrupted version of the dragon.
Secondly, the presence of Caster makes the Shadow more dangerous, because she'll make the Shadow more intelligent, so rather than slithering around devouring things, one of the two of them is likely to actually act with something resembling tactical finesse. Also, Caster's magic means that she'd be able to drain people without killing them, the way the Shadow did originally.
And, hell, if Dark Sakura just got Dark Caster, I wonder if Dark Sakura's capable of using the Golden Fleece she just ate to spew forth a corrupted version of the dragon.
Secondly, the presence of Caster makes the Shadow more dangerous, because she'll make the Shadow more intelligent, so rather than slithering around devouring things, one of the two of them is likely to actually act with something resembling tactical finesse. Also, Caster's magic means that she'd be able to drain people without killing them, the way the Shadow did originally.
Are you completely unable to read? The first point is exactly what I said: That Caster could be dangerous under Dark Sakura because of unlimited prana. The Shadow does not have unlimited prana.
Saber Alter is a million times better than Caster in any form. She "only" got infinite Excalibur use? Excalibur is more powerful than anything Caster could ever hope to manage. She had effectively infinite prana in canon, and she still got her ass kicked.
Caster can't summon the Colchis Dragon because she doesn't have the knowledge to (not to mention the dragon isn't all that strong according to Nasu, and she would only be a mid-tier servant even if she could summon it). Why the hell would Sakura be able to? All she has on Caster is more prana, and Caster herself has a higher output (since she's not limited by circuits).
Saber Alter is a million times better than Caster in any form. She "only" got infinite Excalibur use? Excalibur is more powerful than anything Caster could ever hope to manage. She had effectively infinite prana in canon, and she still got her ass kicked.
Caster can't summon the Colchis Dragon because she doesn't have the knowledge to (not to mention the dragon isn't all that strong according to Nasu, and she would only be a mid-tier servant even if she could summon it). Why the hell would Sakura be able to? All she has on Caster is more prana, and Caster herself has a higher output (since she's not limited by circuits).
Well, she got absorbed by the shadow just like every other servant. It's just that she asked to be, and since she's already evil, the shadow's corruption probably won't affect her all that much. I do wonder where it's going to go from there, though, and in particular how she'll act towards Sakura (since she should be able to understand Sakura's plight somewhat, since she's been similarly controlled in the past, and Zouken is the one who is to blame for Kuzuki's death).
What about Sakura and Rin?
Also, I don't think Ilya is actually the "main character", as such, although she's going to play a bigger role in that story than she does in the canonical FSN, and it might end up with her in a relationship with Shirou.
I think that the idea of it is to give pretty much everyone a fair chance, though, so I don't think that Sakura or Rin will end up dead, and the other servants should get at least some awesomeness.
The shadow doesn't have any consciousness, so it's easy to persuade it to eat her. Particularly since it's the subconscious of a fundamentally kind, caring girl who is scared and alone.
She talked to Sakura in her dream-like state and managed to convince her to contract with her.
Remember that the shadow is just Sakura (or, rather, her familiar) in an unconscious and highly suggestible state. Zouken can manipulate her to do his bidding through his connection to her (unless it's something Sakura really doesn't want to do, like killing Shirou), and Caster seemingly managed to find a way to do the same.
Strongest, perhaps (depending on how much influence she can exert over Sakura). Evillest, not a fucking chance, unless she starts seriously fucking with Sakura (and, really, even if she does she has some way to go to beat Zouken...).
Caster with infinite prana? I think that would make her pretty damn strong. And, yes, she would have infinite prana when Sakura isn't corrupted, because the Dark servants are different from Sakura's regular servant (Rider).
At best Caster has gained the ability to be a voice in her ear. She can't prevent Zouken from giving the shadow orders. All she can do is attempt to persuade Sakura not to follow them. Which may well work in some instances (if Zouken told sakura to make the shadow eat Shirou or Rin, for instance, Caster's voice may well be enough to persuade her not to), but probably not in general.
What about Sakura and Rin?
Also, I don't think Ilya is actually the "main character", as such, although she's going to play a bigger role in that story than she does in the canonical FSN, and it might end up with her in a relationship with Shirou.
I think that the idea of it is to give pretty much everyone a fair chance, though, so I don't think that Sakura or Rin will end up dead, and the other servants should get at least some awesomeness.
The shadow doesn't have any consciousness, so it's easy to persuade it to eat her. Particularly since it's the subconscious of a fundamentally kind, caring girl who is scared and alone.
She talked to Sakura in her dream-like state and managed to convince her to contract with her.
Remember that the shadow is just Sakura (or, rather, her familiar) in an unconscious and highly suggestible state. Zouken can manipulate her to do his bidding through his connection to her (unless it's something Sakura really doesn't want to do, like killing Shirou), and Caster seemingly managed to find a way to do the same.
Strongest, perhaps (depending on how much influence she can exert over Sakura). Evillest, not a fucking chance, unless she starts seriously fucking with Sakura (and, really, even if she does she has some way to go to beat Zouken...).
Caster with infinite prana? I think that would make her pretty damn strong. And, yes, she would have infinite prana when Sakura isn't corrupted, because the Dark servants are different from Sakura's regular servant (Rider).
At best Caster has gained the ability to be a voice in her ear. She can't prevent Zouken from giving the shadow orders. All she can do is attempt to persuade Sakura not to follow them. Which may well work in some instances (if Zouken told sakura to make the shadow eat Shirou or Rin, for instance, Caster's voice may well be enough to persuade her not to), but probably not in general.
Except that Sakura doesn't have infinite prana to give until she becomes Dark Sakura. The Shadow is not connected to Akasha.
Besides, Caster had more power than she could ever need in canon, and it still didn't stop her from being the weakest servant.
When even freaking Archer can dodge her spells and destroy her defenses, having the power to throw as many of them as she wants isn't going to help her. If it's Saber, she won't even need to dodge.
Her very dead douchebag master. She stopped being limited when she killed him, unless her master was able to throw around destructive spells that use up somewhere in the realm of three thousand units.
Besides, Caster had more power than she could ever need in canon, and it still didn't stop her from being the weakest servant.
When even freaking Archer can dodge her spells and destroy her defenses, having the power to throw as many of them as she wants isn't going to help her. If it's Saber, she won't even need to dodge.
Her very dead douchebag master. She stopped being limited when she killed him, unless her master was able to throw around destructive spells that use up somewhere in the realm of three thousand units.
Putting Caster's power level aside (though I note she's now linked to Sakura, as opposed to a jerk or a non-magus) - she's not a corpse, but rather a voice whispering in Sakura's ear about betrayal.
How much would Saber do that? Honorable, meatshield Saber? And even then Sakura got paranoid about Rin to snap eventually. With Medea reminding her of everything that could go wrong...
How much would Saber do that? Honorable, meatshield Saber? And even then Sakura got paranoid about Rin to snap eventually. With Medea reminding her of everything that could go wrong...
Oh she's definitely an actual plotter in the events. The problem is that she's never been very good (or successful) at it.
Or rather, not compared to every other plotter in the war.
She'll probably be a non-entity apart from some crucial moment (like taking out Zouken when he's completely unprepared for it, or managing to get Sakura to give in to Angra Mainyu somehow).
Or rather, not compared to every other plotter in the war.
She'll probably be a non-entity apart from some crucial moment (like taking out Zouken when he's completely unprepared for it, or managing to get Sakura to give in to Angra Mainyu somehow).