Nasuverse Fate/time loop
- Thread starter Prince Charon
- Start date
Yeah, definitely....
It would be seriously hot to see. Unfortunately, if someone did write it it would be lost in the general lemon section, and if anyone posted a link to it here some idiot would complain about it....
Oh, hi there Creative, nice to see you trying to spread your bullshit here too....
Personally, I don't understand how so many people don't like Sakura. What's there not to like?
She's not involved in the other two routes because to get involved in the war means being forced to fight and potentially kill Shirou, all for Zouken's benefit. The only way she can be active is if she is happy with doing bad things, and Sakura is too nice a person to be willing to put her own happiness or survival over the lives of others (especially Shirou).
As for her personality, yes she's somewhat down-trodden, but Zouken has spent the last eleven years forcing her to be that way. Even so, she still shows that she's perfectly capable of standing up for the people she cares for (which, unfortunately, doesn't include herself, due to the total lack of self-esteem that eleven years of being degraded and insulted results in...) and she is extremely mentally strong.
It would be seriously hot to see. Unfortunately, if someone did write it it would be lost in the general lemon section, and if anyone posted a link to it here some idiot would complain about it....
Oh, hi there Creative, nice to see you trying to spread your bullshit here too....
Personally, I don't understand how so many people don't like Sakura. What's there not to like?
She's not involved in the other two routes because to get involved in the war means being forced to fight and potentially kill Shirou, all for Zouken's benefit. The only way she can be active is if she is happy with doing bad things, and Sakura is too nice a person to be willing to put her own happiness or survival over the lives of others (especially Shirou).
As for her personality, yes she's somewhat down-trodden, but Zouken has spent the last eleven years forcing her to be that way. Even so, she still shows that she's perfectly capable of standing up for the people she cares for (which, unfortunately, doesn't include herself, due to the total lack of self-esteem that eleven years of being degraded and insulted results in...) and she is extremely mentally strong.
Well, you have a similar name to someone who I've argued with before who holds similar views, so I thought that you were him....
Really? Because I don't see any "fawning" over Sakura. I just see a forum which contains some people who are willing to treat Sakura as what she is, which is a major character from the game, rather than doing what so many people in the fandom do, which is trying to pretend that she doesn't exist or that she's only a "side-character".
Just because she's not (directly) heavily involved in the first two routes, that doesn't mean that she's not important. FSN doesn't stop at the end of UBW, however much you might wish it did....
Really? Because I don't see any "fawning" over Sakura. I just see a forum which contains some people who are willing to treat Sakura as what she is, which is a major character from the game, rather than doing what so many people in the fandom do, which is trying to pretend that she doesn't exist or that she's only a "side-character".
Just because she's not (directly) heavily involved in the first two routes, that doesn't mean that she's not important. FSN doesn't stop at the end of UBW, however much you might wish it did....
Sorry to dissapoint then <_<
She has a minor role near the end of the Fate route, when Caster does... something to her, to get her to fight Rin, but I can't remember her showing up for anything important in UBW :hmm:
The way I see it, she is a side character for Fat and UBW, but a main character for HF.
She has a minor role near the end of the Fate route, when Caster does... something to her, to get her to fight Rin, but I can't remember her showing up for anything important in UBW :hmm:
The way I see it, she is a side character for Fat and UBW, but a main character for HF.
It's not in any way a "disappointment". The guy is an asshole....
Um, what?
You're mixing up the game and the anime....
Well, that's because she doesn't, really. She's important behind the scenes, though.
Well, that is perhaps true, but overall she is a main character. Even if you ignore HF, she actually plays a major role in the story, albeit one that is well-hidden. She is the master of Rider (so, without her, Rider would not exist), she is the cause of Shinji being such an asshole, she is the (main) reason Rin saved Shirou and Rin's feelings for her (and actions towards her) are something which exemplifies the difference between Rin's true personality and her "true magus" persona.
Further, because of her situation simply ignoring her isn't possible in the same way as you can (for instance) ignore Taiga. I honestly don't see UBW Rin just forgetting about her, and even if she would she's surely got to tell Shirou the past at some point, and I can't imagine Shirou letting it slide either.
Um, what?
You're mixing up the game and the anime....
Well, that's because she doesn't, really. She's important behind the scenes, though.
Well, that is perhaps true, but overall she is a main character. Even if you ignore HF, she actually plays a major role in the story, albeit one that is well-hidden. She is the master of Rider (so, without her, Rider would not exist), she is the cause of Shinji being such an asshole, she is the (main) reason Rin saved Shirou and Rin's feelings for her (and actions towards her) are something which exemplifies the difference between Rin's true personality and her "true magus" persona.
Further, because of her situation simply ignoring her isn't possible in the same way as you can (for instance) ignore Taiga. I honestly don't see UBW Rin just forgetting about her, and even if she would she's surely got to tell Shirou the past at some point, and I can't imagine Shirou letting it slide either.
And I'm not?
Ah, my bad.
Except, if you don't get to see what makes her important, then it's easy to ignore, or simply just miss it completely.
And none of this would give her main character status, as she hardly appears outside of HF. Sakura dosen't feature prominently in two thirds of the game, so she dosen't qualify for Main character status due to lack of screen time.
It's simply easier to see it as three seperate stories using the same characters and rank their impotance that way.
I don't know... Fate and UBW seemed to of a pretty good job of ignoreing her.
Ah, my bad.
Except, if you don't get to see what makes her important, then it's easy to ignore, or simply just miss it completely.
And none of this would give her main character status, as she hardly appears outside of HF. Sakura dosen't feature prominently in two thirds of the game, so she dosen't qualify for Main character status due to lack of screen time.
It's simply easier to see it as three seperate stories using the same characters and rank their impotance that way.
I don't know... Fate and UBW seemed to of a pretty good job of ignoreing her.
I'm still reserving judgement on that one....
Rubbish. She is a fucking heroine. So, yes, she is a main character.
But they're not....
You have to consider the game as a whole, because all the routes are interconnected (they have foreshadowing, and things that are mentioned in one are used in another).
Because they last all of two weeks, and because Rin is still too wedded to her fucking retarded "true magus" ideal to actually talk to her sister. Post-UBW, she's dumped that ideal, to at least some extent, and with Shirou around she can't get away with avoiding the issue as easily.
Rubbish. She is a fucking heroine. So, yes, she is a main character.
But they're not....
You have to consider the game as a whole, because all the routes are interconnected (they have foreshadowing, and things that are mentioned in one are used in another).
Because they last all of two weeks, and because Rin is still too wedded to her fucking retarded "true magus" ideal to actually talk to her sister. Post-UBW, she's dumped that ideal, to at least some extent, and with Shirou around she can't get away with avoiding the issue as easily.
It's also an entirely pointless argument. Sakura is an important character, because she is part of a great many things in F/SN. The extent of this is only revealed in HF, but that does not invalidate her effect on the other routes, merely obscure it. You can't treat the routes as separate because they partly explain one another and F/SN wouldn't be a complete story without them, simply as a consequence of the format (sequential route VN).
The real question is why do people like Sakura? And there are probably as many answers to that as there are people that like Sakura. I don't really care for Sakura personally, I feel sorry for her, sure, and ideally she should be helped, but her character type just doesn't interest me very much. Also, writing fanfic is done because you like something in the original work. If this happens to be Sakura, it doesn't make a work about her any worse than another. If something about it annoys you, you might as well not read it. Quality writing is quality writing even if you dislike the subject material after all.
Besides, even if she is considered a side-character, that doesn't make her boring. I mean, my favourite character is Ayako of all people!
The real question is why do people like Sakura? And there are probably as many answers to that as there are people that like Sakura. I don't really care for Sakura personally, I feel sorry for her, sure, and ideally she should be helped, but her character type just doesn't interest me very much. Also, writing fanfic is done because you like something in the original work. If this happens to be Sakura, it doesn't make a work about her any worse than another. If something about it annoys you, you might as well not read it. Quality writing is quality writing even if you dislike the subject material after all.
Besides, even if she is considered a side-character, that doesn't make her boring. I mean, my favourite character is Ayako of all people!
Is Rin or anyone who would inform them aware of the form Zouken's magecraft takes? Is there some canonical way for them to find out post-UBW? Because if Rin has abandoned her "True Magus" ideal by the end of UBW and so cares about her sister, and Saber and Avalon are still around, and Shirou has seen Rule Breaker, if they found someone to remove the worms, couldn't that work like in Steel and Cherry Blossoms?
In one route. She's not the herione of Fate, nor is she the heroine of UBW. Just because you're important to the plot, does not make you a main character.
How can you call it the same story, when the story is diffrent everytime?
Too me, regardless of how I look at it, the only link between stories, is the characters, and even they aren't the same every run through.
Depending on which ending you follow, Shirou could end up in London, so I can't see her being important after the game if she's still in Japan.
And, it's still possible to ignore anything that happens in HF if you're writing a fic based on a different route, since it didn't happen, it can be hand waved away.
But, arguing is pointless, so I'm just not going to bother, besides, this is not the place for a debate on what makes a main character.
How can you call it the same story, when the story is diffrent everytime?
Too me, regardless of how I look at it, the only link between stories, is the characters, and even they aren't the same every run through.
Depending on which ending you follow, Shirou could end up in London, so I can't see her being important after the game if she's still in Japan.
And, it's still possible to ignore anything that happens in HF if you're writing a fic based on a different route, since it didn't happen, it can be hand waved away.
But, arguing is pointless, so I'm just not going to bother, besides, this is not the place for a debate on what makes a main character.
I don't think Rin is aware of the details, but the way she acts in HF implies that she has at least some idea of how the Matou magic works (when she goes into the Matou basement, she is not exactly surprised to find out that their "training" consists of raping the successor with penis worms...). I don't think there is anyone else who can tell her, though (excepting Sakura or Shinji, of course...).
As for Rin finding out, it depends on whether she attempts to reconcile with Sakura, and how her life develops. However, it is at least plausible that she will, because I can't honestly see Shirou not trying to bring the two together when Rin tells him that Sakura is her sister, especially given how much Rin would like that to happen, and once they're re-united, Rin will surely discover the truth eventually. Plus, as she does more research into magic, it's quite possible that she'll come to understand how the Matou magic works sufficiently to realise how much danger Sakura is in.
Well, no. The events of HF itself didn't happen, but the backstory still did, which means that Sakura is still Rin's sister and she is still being tortured by Zouken. And, given those two things plus the fact that Rin is less cold post-UBW than she was prior to it and that she has Shirou to push her to reconcile with Sakura means that it is difficult to just "ignore" it.
As for Rin finding out, it depends on whether she attempts to reconcile with Sakura, and how her life develops. However, it is at least plausible that she will, because I can't honestly see Shirou not trying to bring the two together when Rin tells him that Sakura is her sister, especially given how much Rin would like that to happen, and once they're re-united, Rin will surely discover the truth eventually. Plus, as she does more research into magic, it's quite possible that she'll come to understand how the Matou magic works sufficiently to realise how much danger Sakura is in.
Well, no. The events of HF itself didn't happen, but the backstory still did, which means that Sakura is still Rin's sister and she is still being tortured by Zouken. And, given those two things plus the fact that Rin is less cold post-UBW than she was prior to it and that she has Shirou to push her to reconcile with Sakura means that it is difficult to just "ignore" it.
Are you kidding me ? Sakura's mind and will was all but broken from infancy, Zouken constantly making sure that she had just that one sliver of hope to keep her going and maintain her value as a "material". She was also physically tortured by the worms and regularly raped by her brother.
HOW what happened to Shinji Ikari even COMPARE to this ? :no:
HOW what happened to Shinji Ikari even COMPARE to this ? :no:
4 or 5 years old I think. Shortly before or even during the 4th Grail War if I'm not mistaken, at which point she was immediately implanted with the worms and her daily torture sessions began.
Shinji became pessimist all on his own, Sakura's was carefully cultivated by Zouken her whole life. It's kind of hard to stand up for yourself when the guy you must stand up to has a remote kill/brainwash switch that he can activate at any moment remotely. Not to mention that the worms within Sakura's body allow Zouken to spy on Sakura every waking moment. <_<
Shinji became pessimist all on his own, Sakura's was carefully cultivated by Zouken her whole life. It's kind of hard to stand up for yourself when the guy you must stand up to has a remote kill/brainwash switch that he can activate at any moment remotely. Not to mention that the worms within Sakura's body allow Zouken to spy on Sakura every waking moment. <_<
The fact that we're talking about two different Shinji is getting confusing. :sweat:
Anyway, no, she can't rebel against Shinji either because Zouken wouldn't like it and retaliate against her if she did. The only reason Shinji could rape Sakura to begin with is because Zouken enable him to do so. The whole rape thing was an integral part of Zouken's plan.
Anyway, no, she can't rebel against Shinji either because Zouken wouldn't like it and retaliate against her if she did. The only reason Shinji could rape Sakura to begin with is because Zouken enable him to do so. The whole rape thing was an integral part of Zouken's plan.