Nasuverse [FSN] Centralized Random Idea Thread
- Thread starter Garahs
- Start date
Centralized Random Idea Thread
Do want.
Anyways, what are the possible servants for Shirou to summon? Saber, due to Avalon, obviously. Future CG TOHSAKA or another EMIYA, most likely from UBW, are also possible due to the jewel. Anyone else?
Serafita said:
Haha, this is how it would end...
After being beaten up by Saber and Rin for reasons they can't work out why, Shirou starts his harem.
After being beaten up by Saber and Rin for reasons they can't work out why, Shirou starts his harem.
Anyways, what are the possible servants for Shirou to summon? Saber, due to Avalon, obviously. Future CG TOHSAKA or another EMIYA, most likely from UBW, are also possible due to the jewel. Anyone else?
Centralized Random Idea Thread
Even if Rin has the ability to contact and make a pact with Alaya (which is a massive assumption, as we never find out exactly what is required to do so), she would be possibly the worst servant that you could ever have (excluding Avenger, probably). She'd be like having a significantly less powerful Medea.
Well, unless she manages to master the Second Magic, but even then I'm not so sure that would make her H4X enough to beat Eirei.
I could only see her as useful as a Master killer, but Medea would still be better for that (as would any other servant shown in Fate, if used intelligently).
Even if Rin has the ability to contact and make a pact with Alaya (which is a massive assumption, as we never find out exactly what is required to do so), she would be possibly the worst servant that you could ever have (excluding Avenger, probably). She'd be like having a significantly less powerful Medea.
Well, unless she manages to master the Second Magic, but even then I'm not so sure that would make her H4X enough to beat Eirei.
I could only see her as useful as a Master killer, but Medea would still be better for that (as would any other servant shown in Fate, if used intelligently).
Centralized Random Idea Thread
It doesn't give her the power to control people, so no endless minions (and unless they were Eirei level themselves, they'd be completely useless anyway). She also would have no reason to have Zelretch. The only reason she had it in HF was because Shirou made it for her, and it was just as temporary as anything else he's ever made.
So no, the Second Magic isn't looking like enough to take on the greatest beings humanity has ever had to offer.
Magic doesn't automatically put you on the level of Eirei. If that were the case, Aoko wouldn't get her ass kicked, and we know she would.
It doesn't give her the power to control people, so no endless minions (and unless they were Eirei level themselves, they'd be completely useless anyway). She also would have no reason to have Zelretch. The only reason she had it in HF was because Shirou made it for her, and it was just as temporary as anything else he's ever made.
So no, the Second Magic isn't looking like enough to take on the greatest beings humanity has ever had to offer.
Magic doesn't automatically put you on the level of Eirei. If that were the case, Aoko wouldn't get her ass kicked, and we know she would.
Centralized Random Idea Thread
Zelretch turned up afterwards, and if the world was suitably craptacular (Gil using the power of the Grail to conquer and/or destroy the world, Arcueid going batshit and creating a vampire superstate (Sacchin route bad end?), or something similar), she'd have reason to become a Counter-Guardian and track Zelretch down to get him to teach her the Second Magic. Her family was already on the road; the crystal magic they use seems to be the first step.
And who says the minions she summons wouldn't be Eirei themselves? Infinite alternate versions of Archer, Saber, and maybe Rider or Caster Medea.
Zelretch turned up afterwards, and if the world was suitably craptacular (Gil using the power of the Grail to conquer and/or destroy the world, Arcueid going batshit and creating a vampire superstate (Sacchin route bad end?), or something similar), she'd have reason to become a Counter-Guardian and track Zelretch down to get him to teach her the Second Magic. Her family was already on the road; the crystal magic they use seems to be the first step.
And who says the minions she summons wouldn't be Eirei themselves? Infinite alternate versions of Archer, Saber, and maybe Rider or Caster Medea.
Centralized Random Idea Thread
Random thought since I haven't read Fate/Zero...
Why isn't Ilya raised alongside Shirou?
I mean, I can get why Iri isn't there, but why did Kiritsugu just leave her with the Einzbern?
Not that I have any real clue what this changes and effects.
Ilya might not even become a Master, leaving things open to some other Einzbern. Or, since the Einzbern's are gauranteed a slot, she could end up summoning a different Servant.
I have no real clue where this is going.
Random thought since I haven't read Fate/Zero...
Why isn't Ilya raised alongside Shirou?
I mean, I can get why Iri isn't there, but why did Kiritsugu just leave her with the Einzbern?
Not that I have any real clue what this changes and effects.
Ilya might not even become a Master, leaving things open to some other Einzbern. Or, since the Einzbern's are gauranteed a slot, she could end up summoning a different Servant.
I have no real clue where this is going.
Centralized Random Idea Thread
Is it a pathological need for you to only acknowledge part of a post and ignore the rest?
EVEN IF SHE COULD, SHE COULDN'T CONTROL THEM. SHE WOULD NOT BE THEIR MASTER. THEY WOULD NEVER BE MINIONS.
The Second Magic is the ability to access alternate dimensions. That's all.
I see no reason to believe that Kishua Zelretch motherfucking Schweinorg would give her his sword. At all.
@Shaderic: Her family are massive dicks. Kiritsugu betrayed them (in their eyes) by destroying the grail, so they wanted nothing to do with him.
Is it a pathological need for you to only acknowledge part of a post and ignore the rest?
EVEN IF SHE COULD, SHE COULDN'T CONTROL THEM. SHE WOULD NOT BE THEIR MASTER. THEY WOULD NEVER BE MINIONS.
The Second Magic is the ability to access alternate dimensions. That's all.
I see no reason to believe that Kishua Zelretch motherfucking Schweinorg would give her his sword. At all.
@Shaderic: Her family are massive dicks. Kiritsugu betrayed them (in their eyes) by destroying the grail, so they wanted nothing to do with him.
Centralized Random Idea Thread
Closest how? In HF all she did was try to get Shirou to create it, and he couldn't either (he had to see it in memory).
I don't remember any comment in the text saying that she even had the foggiest idea how to create it, other than that it should be possible to use the Azoth dagger as a base (because it's basically just a dagger that can be filled with prana, and thus logical as a base for the creation of any such item).
Closest how? In HF all she did was try to get Shirou to create it, and he couldn't either (he had to see it in memory).
I don't remember any comment in the text saying that she even had the foggiest idea how to create it, other than that it should be possible to use the Azoth dagger as a base (because it's basically just a dagger that can be filled with prana, and thus logical as a base for the creation of any such item).
Centralized Random Idea Thread
She has Argon Coin, which can summon and control a dragon. Problem is she doesn't have the knowledge needed to activate and use it. It's not actually a coin.
She has Argon Coin, which can summon and control a dragon. Problem is she doesn't have the knowledge needed to activate and use it. It's not actually a coin.
Centralized Random Idea Thread
So she can't accomplish it even in tens of years? That sounds to me like it's a lifetime work spent gathering resources, not something she could create in a life harsh enough that she would resort to becoming a CG(and that's assuming she could). It's not something that she would have even in ideal conditions unless she was at least 40 (well 37 technically, but you get the point). On top of that, it's only possible following a situation where Shirou traced it for her.
Even if she did have the sword, pretty much every Eirei in Fate could kick her ass. So with the boost from Alaya (and this is assuming that she would have the same physical capabilities of Archer, which is a big stretch) she'd probably beat Medea, if she didn't immediately get beam spammed.
Remember that she'd still have to be capable of parrying the enemy's attacks (dodging is pretty much out of the question) and then actually hitting them, unless she managed to get a sneak attack every single time.
So she can't accomplish it even in tens of years? That sounds to me like it's a lifetime work spent gathering resources, not something she could create in a life harsh enough that she would resort to becoming a CG(and that's assuming she could). It's not something that she would have even in ideal conditions unless she was at least 40 (well 37 technically, but you get the point). On top of that, it's only possible following a situation where Shirou traced it for her.
Even if she did have the sword, pretty much every Eirei in Fate could kick her ass. So with the boost from Alaya (and this is assuming that she would have the same physical capabilities of Archer, which is a big stretch) she'd probably beat Medea, if she didn't immediately get beam spammed.
Remember that she'd still have to be capable of parrying the enemy's attacks (dodging is pretty much out of the question) and then actually hitting them, unless she managed to get a sneak attack every single time.
Centralized Random Idea Thread
The main issue is that with the akasha pulling from a inifinite number of dimensions it easily allows that one possibility where the situation lines up that would end with Rin becoming a CG.
Granted it might not be from any of the straight up fate scenerio's but given there's endless possible variations as long as the general set up is ok people can picture it. (Granted personally as i've seen several fic's use this concept it's starting to be overdone, specially since they all use the generic Gil + evil grail blah blah to start it off... there has to be better starting concepts, personally i think a extended dark sakura scenerio would have a higher chance of Rin being willing to require a miracle)
Since we don't know exactly how becoming a CG would affect her stat's, given the difference in power levels between base shiro and base EMIYA. If Rin got a similar power/skill level boost when becoming a CG she could easily be a good servent, it may be that archer is a exception due to his RM, but who's to say she couldn't develop a similar skill/RM. Also People seem to just use zelretch's dagger as a standard NP simply it's established and cause it gives her a class A attack.
Once again the main issue it seems that your having with allowing Rin to be viable CG is that the standard Fate versions of her wouldn't manage, which i agree with. The thing is neither would standard Shirou, none of the standard fate scenerio's would be viable to end up with CG shirou.
The versions that end up as a CG would likely be a exceptional versions of them, which just had them end in a situation where the miracle request from the world was the only way.
The main issue is that with the akasha pulling from a inifinite number of dimensions it easily allows that one possibility where the situation lines up that would end with Rin becoming a CG.
Granted it might not be from any of the straight up fate scenerio's but given there's endless possible variations as long as the general set up is ok people can picture it. (Granted personally as i've seen several fic's use this concept it's starting to be overdone, specially since they all use the generic Gil + evil grail blah blah to start it off... there has to be better starting concepts, personally i think a extended dark sakura scenerio would have a higher chance of Rin being willing to require a miracle)
Since we don't know exactly how becoming a CG would affect her stat's, given the difference in power levels between base shiro and base EMIYA. If Rin got a similar power/skill level boost when becoming a CG she could easily be a good servent, it may be that archer is a exception due to his RM, but who's to say she couldn't develop a similar skill/RM. Also People seem to just use zelretch's dagger as a standard NP simply it's established and cause it gives her a class A attack.
Once again the main issue it seems that your having with allowing Rin to be viable CG is that the standard Fate versions of her wouldn't manage, which i agree with. The thing is neither would standard Shirou, none of the standard fate scenerio's would be viable to end up with CG shirou.
The versions that end up as a CG would likely be a exceptional versions of them, which just had them end in a situation where the miracle request from the world was the only way.
Centralized Random Idea Thread
Like the Satsuki i Route Bad End I mentioned.
1. Satsuki turns Shiki into a Vampire.
2. Shiki and Satsuki proceed to properly vampirize Ciel (again). Only now, it's her that's the Vampire, not Roa.
3. The three of them are accosted by Arcueid. Shiki kills the concept of Arcueid holding back her hunger.
BAD END
They then proceed to begin to conquer the world, and Tohsaka needs a Miracle to stop them. Shirou probably dies holding off Shiki, Satsuki, Ciel, and any other Dead Apostle Ancestors present off while Tohsaka permanently kills Arcueid and dies in the process.
Also another way using the 2nd Magic to its full power is broken: it created the Kaleidostick. Someone capable of weilding the 2nd Magic is capable of invoking the powers any alternate version of them has. There are an infinite number of worlds, and therefore an infinite number of possible abilities to use.
Like the Satsuki i Route Bad End I mentioned.
1. Satsuki turns Shiki into a Vampire.
2. Shiki and Satsuki proceed to properly vampirize Ciel (again). Only now, it's her that's the Vampire, not Roa.
3. The three of them are accosted by Arcueid. Shiki kills the concept of Arcueid holding back her hunger.
BAD END
They then proceed to begin to conquer the world, and Tohsaka needs a Miracle to stop them. Shirou probably dies holding off Shiki, Satsuki, Ciel, and any other Dead Apostle Ancestors present off while Tohsaka permanently kills Arcueid and dies in the process.
Also another way using the 2nd Magic to its full power is broken: it created the Kaleidostick. Someone capable of weilding the 2nd Magic is capable of invoking the powers any alternate version of them has. There are an infinite number of worlds, and therefore an infinite number of possible abilities to use.