Akamatsuverse Harem Comparisons: TM vs LH vs AYA vs H&HC

[Terdwilicker]

I have noticed there are many levels and approaches to Harem animes.

You've got the Tenchi Muyo style, where a pretty ordinary forgiving guy with a special power is surrounded by adoring space girls, who like the hottie from Matrix 1, fall in love with him for no reason. He never chooses one of the girls and they don't get impatient because they live thousands of years. Its beautiful and fun eye candy, and has some touching moments of romance. There are many many copycats of this exact shallow approach: Dual, El Hazard, Stellvia, Saber Marionette J, etc.

Then you've got Love Hina, which has far better characterization but mostly relies on long term development and slapstick, so while it's a bit more believable, it's still not real. Its anime so this is forgiven. And its well done slapstick too, which helps. Its great strength is grounding aspects of it on the fact that the hero isn't the person the story is really about. People think LH is about Keitaro, but its really about Naru and her doubts and insecurities. Grounding the main plot around their struggle to get into college, trying for years to do so, is something many fans appreciate since it's a reality for a lot of Japanese: balancing your dreams against the more mundane compromises that life often hands you.

Next you've got Ai Yori Aoshi, in which a sweet guy with a clouded past is loved by various women he was kind to, but is after one girl specifically. He can't tell the others due to political reasons but they start to suspect over time and love him more. I just finished reading a very good lemon from this series:
http://mediaminer.org/fanfic/view_st.php/79468
which has a sequel: http://mediaminer.org/fanfic/view_st.php/94318
The main conflict of the story is the character's right to marry his betrothed despite losing status in a family tragedy. This is a more believable story as it's really about arranged marriages, Japanese high society, love, obsession, and loneliness. It's a real family story in that respect, which is why, despite a harem of girls somewhat similar to LH, it's distinctly different and worthy. Btw, same voice director of the English dub as LH. Also, the story implies on several occasions that the couple do have sex, but they don't make a big deal of it to the others.

Finally we come to the story which is both slapstick yet utterly realistic in an emotional sense, His and Her Circumstances. The male lead in this story is even more tormented than Hanabishi-sama in AYA. The hero/protagonist is his middle class girlfriend, an obsessed glory hound who strives for attention by high achievement in everything she does. Her personal agonies and failings are the most true to life of any anime I've seen. He's kind of an emo boy kendo national champion A-student, but he draws a bishi and several girls into his orbit. It's particularly good because their relationship is rocky and is often undercut by doubts and fears of both parties. Real relationships are like that more often than not. Sex for this couple makes things more complicated, and raises even more doubts. In addition, the lead male is a violently jealous man in regards to his gf, which was a nice touch. Few cutesy animes would dare have something like that in a hero. The only downside to this anime is it sort of ends rather abruptly without resolution when the show was cancelled after 2.5 years.

We watch animes as entertainment, and write fan fiction to either compliment or contrast the original canon. Sometimes we write lemons to fill in the blanks or complete story arcs in the direction they were headed. Should Harem fics be realistic or should they be mere fantasy and enjoyed as such? What's your preference?

 

[Moshulel]

Read all the manga's you presented there. I'm still waiting for the rest of the His and Her Circumstances manga, but i can tell you that it's not a harem one.

 

[SimmyC]

I have seen Tenchi Muyo, Dual (made by the person who did TM), Love Hina, and parts of El Hazard. I have not seen or read the others though.

As for preference, at the moment I don't have one. While I have 'exclusively' seen the first type of Harem stories, that is more by chance than choice (well, partly choice if only because I wanted to see said stories in the first place. But I also did not know the others). The other ones I aso might like since sometimes I do prefer a more realistic story than the others. And IMO, LH is fairly realistic on a lot of matters. True, Naru punches are not, but emotions... at least some of it, is realistic (more exagerated true, but still...).

 

[Alzrius]

I find that the greatest irony of "harem" anime is that, when you get down to it, they're not really harems at all. Harem anime are typified by how there are multiple (that is, more than two) girls revolving around, and to some degree competing for, the same guy (and rarely, the opposite is true, with multiple guys competing for the same girl).

However, harem anime always almost always falls into one of two stereotypes:

The most common one is that the guy almost immediately chooses one girl he likes, reducing the other girls to being little more than "satellites" (in that they revolve around him, but don't ever truly get considered as romantic candidates) while he and she form a relationship, usually at a slow pace that takes the entire series to resolve. Love Hina may be perhaps the quintessential example of this.

The other thing that happens is that he doesn't choose a girl at all. Instead, he actively avoids trying to have a romantic relationship with any of them, trying for whatever reason to keep them all relatively close, but balanced. Tenchi Muyo! (the OVA series) is an example of this, since as the series progresses it become rather obvious he doesn't have a single girl he likes, and tries very hard to keep it that way.

The point of the above ranting is that harem anime never seems to end up with an actual, literal harem. I can't think of any anime, hentai notwithstanding, where it ends with the guy in a relationship with all of the girls; no more competing between them, no more of him trying to choose who he likes best, but actually loving (and doing) all of them, with everyone happy to be in a group relationship.

Maybe it's just because it's too unrealistic compared to what we expect from relationships, nowadays, but that ending seems to have been purely confined to the realm of fanfiction and hentai series. It's a shame, since I'd love to see an anime or manga that could realistically (in terms of character development) pull that off.

 

[toraneko]

Well, in all fairness, it's strongly implied that Tenchi Muyou! will end up as a group-marriage happy ending. The revelation that Jurai royalty are outright expected to have multiple wives cinches it.

Yet Tenchi is still a wuss. :no:

 

[Pirazy]

Well, in all fairness, it's strongly implied that Tenchi Muyou! will end up as a group-marriage happy ending. The revelation that Jurai royalty are outright expected to have multiple wives cinches it.

Yet Tenchi is still a wuss. :no:

Assuming Tenchi goes along with it, he's already unofficially chosen Ryoko after all (If you count the movies as canon that is)

Then again, he's too much of a wimp to actually put his foot down and resolve the situation. <_<

 

[Israfel]

Love Hina? Check!
Tenchi Muyo (in all of its various incarnations)? Check!
Ai Yori Aoshi? Semi-Check (I've read the first volume of the manga)!
His And Her Circumstances? Check!

The only downside to this anime is it sort of ends rather abruptly without resolution when the show was cancelled after 2.5 years.

Ugh, don't even get me started on how much of a dissapointment the fifth disc of that series was, up to the fourth it was a-frickin'-mazing, then fifth disc, crash and burn, as we are left with no resolution and a last episode that doesn't even focus on the main characters, how many episodes were on that last disc anyway? There was so many 25.3, 24.7, 25.5's that I haven't the foggiest as to how long I spent watching that thing.

Should Harem fics be realistic or should they be mere fantasy and enjoyed as such? What's your preference?

In the right context a realistic harem anime could probably be done and done well, something that I would love to see, but they could just as easily be done as a fantasy type of thing and I would enjoy that just as much, albeit in a different manner, than if it were done realistically. Really I just wanna' see one where the guy somehow finagles all the girls into a relationship instead of going the Keitaro or Tenchi route.

 

[toraneko]

Assuming Tenchi goes along with it, he's already unofficially chosen Ryoko after all (If you count the movies as canon that is)

There are multiple canons for Tenchi Muyo!, but the only one I really accept is TM!Ryo-ohki, due to its larger support. Not to say I don't enjoy the others, but they're not "the real story" to me.

Anyway, to the best of my knowledge, none of the movies are part of TM!Ryo-ohki canon.

I'll just stick by Tenchi's bold declaration, "I'd sooner die than forsake any of them!"

Then again, he's too much of a wimp to actually put his foot down and resolve the situation. <_<

Washu's next invention should be one that makes him grow a pair. >_<

 

[SMWhat]

Talking about: H&HC

Yes, yes, many people are of the opinion that it was better before the director was replaced for the last episodes.

 

[SimmyC]

Most TM fans do consider TM: Ryo-Ohki as canon, and none of the others. Even the movies that 'appear' to follow the original OVAs, given that the 3rd OVA contradicts MANY of the facts in those movies, well, can't be 'canon' if you only take the work of by Kajishima.

But yeah, most of the 'non-canon' TM series definately has a Ryoko bias towards it. Heck, some could even argue this was true with the Ryo-Ohki pre-3rd OVA. But at the moment, if Kajishima follows what he did with GXP, this might be a TRUE harem story.

 

[Alzrius]

Most TM fans do consider TM: Ryo-Ohki as canon, and none of the others. Even the movies that 'appear' to follow the original OVAs, given that the 3rd OVA contradicts MANY of the facts in those movies, well, can't be 'canon' if you only take the work of by Kajishima.

Probably the best site about this is over at www.astronerdboy.com/tenchi.

The Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki canon, in purest form, consists of just the first three OVA series (which technically does not include the Mihoshi special), GXP, the True Tenchi novels, and possibly Kajishima's own Tenchi doujinshi. Everything else, even the Hitoshi Okuda-drawn manga, isn't part of it (though that manga adheres very closely to it).

A lot of people think that the Manatsu no Eve (aka "Daughter of Darkness") movie is part of that series, but it's not - that's actually based on (IIRC) the ninth Naoko Hasegawa Tenchi novel; all of her books diverge from the OVA series after the sixth episode.

 

[Terdwilicker]

Re: Tenchi

The author had some surprises in the 3rd OVA. I found interviews where he stated distinctly that the Mihoshi Special IS CANON, its just told in a silly way because Mihoshi is an artificially retarded ditz. Ever notice that her blue ribbon never comes off? The author says its important.

IPOF, GXP was made AFTER the currently releasing in the US new OVA series. What does that mean? Well, you can see much of the unreleased story on YouTube and Google Video, usually with Fan Dubs which aren't terrible, they're just not that good. The properly released portions of the final Tenchi OVA are coming out in October and November of this year. You don't have much longer to wait.

And btw, he does choose ONE of them after all. I was pretty disappointed, actually. I like the fanfics where he chooses all of them, and at the very least when he chooses 3 of them (Ryoko, Ayeka, and Mihoshi). Mihoshi is the most tragic figure of them all, sad to say. You'll see.

 

[Alzrius]

I found interviews where he stated distinctly that the Mihoshi Special IS CANON, its just told in a silly way because Mihoshi is an artificially retarded ditz.

I'd really like to see that, because it pretty clearly violates the rest of the OVA canon in a number of ways, to say nothing of the fact that it introduces characters who aren't Kajishima's (e.g. Pretty Sammy and Kiyone Makibi).

 

[SimmyC]

I haven't seen anywhere that he chooses one of them. I know there was a 'special', that was made after OVA 3 (OVA 3.5?). But that special was from my understanding, simply more information about his late mother than him 'choosing one'. Now, if he said that he intends for Tenchi to choose one, different story. I'm assuming that would occur in the yet to be made OVA 4. But as far as I know, OVA 3 is not the one for it.

As for the Mihoushi Special being canon... It could be, IF you take the idea that those chracters were Mishoshi's creations. ^_^ From my understanding, nothing in it would contradict anything from the OVAs except Pretty Sammy, and maybe Kiyone but in that case, you can argue she simply has not made an appearence in the 'canon' series (and might never appear) for we know.

And actuality, GXP was made before OVA 3. In Japan at least. Now, it is SET after OVA 3 so at the very least, you know that Tenchi and others do make out of OVA3 more or less alive. <_< But even there, there was no indication of Tenchi choosing one of them.

 

[Terdwilicker]

Kiyone is Canon, Pretty Sammy was a joke made at fan request. It seems that during a crucial mission with Mihoshi and her partner, she got her partner and her son killed, which drove her deeply insane. The cutesy story she tells is the kindergarten version of what happened. The story of the blue ribbon will be in the OVA. Mihoshi has as much grief and tragedy in her life as Washu does. It helps that she's living with her Aunt and Grandmother now. She's also much older than she looks.

As for when these were made, the currently releasing to the USA story was animated and released in Japan in 1996 or 99, I think. Just a couple years after the main OVA's that people are used to watching. Years later, a different studio and a low budget authorized GXP, which got released to the US first for licensing reasons. The big deal OVA that features tenchi learning about his mom and sister has been out for years in Japan. I've seen the end of it, as a fan dub. There's also some fansubs too. They don't tend to be up very long, though. Life everyone else, I'm anxiously waiting to see it properly on Netflix.

 

[SimmyC]

Hmm. Well the reason why Mishoshi wears the blue ribbon has been a well known fact for many years. But if she ever takes it off, apparently she loses her memory? At least, that was what everyone was saying before. Though the information that it was due to Kiyone dying is semi-new (I guess I really shouldn't be saying it as fact or not since, I haven't seen the Mishoshi Special yet. -_- But I have heard about it, and I just remembered a spoiler that stated that she did die. Oddly enough, Noike, Mishoshi's current partner, well, if you look at her name, rearrange them and you get Kione. :unsure: ).

And yeah, the big thing about OVA3, besides the conclusion of the Chousin War, was the revealation of his sister, and more about his mother (the special I mentioned). But again, nothing about him choosing one of the girls. In fact, if anything, his life got a little 'harder' with the arrival of Noike to the family.

 

[Alzrius]

Kiyone is Canon

Kiyone is not, nor has she ever, been canon to the OVA series of Tenchi. Mihoshi has had two partners in the OVA series, both of whom are still alive; one is Noike, and the other is either Mashisu (who married Mihoshi's younger brother Misao) or Amane, I'm not certain which.

There is a woman named "Kiyone" in the OVA series, but she's actually Tenchi's deceased mother. "Achika" was the woman made up for the Tenchi TV series ("Tenchi Universe").

For a bit more info on all of this, I'll quote the part of Astronerdboy's FAQ on the subject - and yes, his site so far takes into account everything Tenchi; all OVAs, movies, manga, all of it.

What continuity is the Mihoshi Special in?

Galaxy Police Mihoshi's Space Adventure came out on video around the same time as "Night before the Carnival" (episode 7 of the OAV). At the time, the only continuity in existence was the OAV Universe, and so many believe the Mihoshi special is part of the OAV continuity. However, Kajishima did not work on the Mihoshi Special (although Hiroki Hayashi, the other OAV series creator, directed it), so some people think it should not be considered part of the OAV universe.

The existence of Kiyone, a character imported from the Hasegawa novels (but with a different background), adds to some people's testimonies that the Mihoshi Special is not technically an OAV universe story. Most of the story of the Mihoshi Special takes place inside Mihoshi's head, as she "casts" her friends into a story she is telling them, which makes it harder to figure out what continuity it is a part of, if any, since we don't see much of them in "real life." Most people assume it's either part of the OAV continuity or stands alone in its own little world. Some fans believe it was a prototype for Tenchi Universe (some of the people who worked on the Special worked on the TV series) and/or for Magical Girl Pretty Sammy. Someone told Death Quaker that Kajishima said at his site that it was a TV prototypeûalthough I was not provided with a direct quote.

Regardless of the continuity it stands in, this title is NOT canon material for the TM!R series.

 

[SimmyC]

-_- Sigh. Tenchi Muyo is such a confusing series. Well, again, it does show that 'canon' depends on a lot of things. In the case of Tenchi Muyo, who created it etc.

 

[nuclear death frog]

This discussion is just a small part of why I pretty much loathe the Tenchi series and refuse to read fics for it which aren't crossovers. It's too much of a pain in the ass to keep it straight, so it's better to just mash it all together and strain out what you want.

 

[EagleCeres]

back to the "to harem or not to harem"

there's another harem that has not been mentioned... Ranma 1/2
sure it's convoluted, but arent most harem stories?

KareKano (his and her...), i dont see this as a harem anime/manga, more as a comming of age story between two different sides of the same relationship, also sometimes changes the point of view to the friends of the couple and their own 'circumstances'

 

[SimmyC]

Well, like most Tenchi fans (at the serious ones. Not the Drive-by Tenchi Fans), they limit it to whatever Kajishima was involved with. So no Tenchi in Tokyo, no Tenchi Universe, and certainly, no Tenchi games, no Tenchi mangas, and certainly none Tenchi movies. They are still fun mind you, but not... canon. <_< And it looks like I can cross off the Mishoshi Specials.

 

[Israfel]

Gah, never knew Tenchi was that involved, I've seen Muyo, Universe, Tokyo, and GXP, so what have I missed, besides the movies? And when did all this stuff with Mihoshi happen? Man where have I been? And why am I using so may question marks? Who knows? No really, please answer my questions, I'm so confused.

 

[Alzrius]

Gah, never knew Tenchi was that involved, I've seen Muyo, Universe, Tokyo, and GXP, so what have I missed, besides the movies? And when did all this stuff with Mihoshi happen? Man where have I been? And why am I using so may question marks? Who knows? No really, please answer my questions, I'm so confused.

If you've seen all those anime, then you've pretty much seen the lion's share of all of the Tenchi material, though there's still plenty left over.

There are AT LEAST seven different Tenchi continuities out there, quite possibly more. Your best bet is to check out that site I linked to above, particularly with their links section to other sites that talk more about the other continuities.

A breakdown of the various Tenchi continuities is as such:

Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki: The "canon" Tenchi series, by Masaki Kajishima. This consists of the first, second, and third OVA series, as well as GXP (and the GXP novels, of which I believe there are two so far, by Kajishima), the three True Tenchi novels ("Jurai," "Yosho," and "Washu," all by Kajishima), the "101 Questions and Answers of Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki" guidebook (aka the 101 Secrets book), and (almost certainly) Kajishima's own Tenchi doujinshi. The Mihoshi Special doesn't fall within this (or any other existing) Tenchi continuity. The Tenchi manga drawn by Hitoshi Okuda (which, in America, are titled "No Need for Tenchi" and "The All-New Tenchi Muyo") follow this continuity very closely (except for two very brief instances where Okuda deliberately did stories in other continuities, but these are rare), but aren't technically part of the canon, per se.

The Tenchi Muyo! TV series: Called Tenchi Universe in America, this is the twenty-six episodes of the first TV series, followed by the movie Tenchi Muyo in Love, which is then followed by Tenchi Muyo in Love 2: Haruka Naru Omoi ("Tenchi Muyo in Love 2: Distant Memories" aka Tenchi Forever). Most people don't know that this second movie has an official sequel manga (done by the movie's director, I've heard) called "Eternal Memory," that complements the movie, adding in several things to this continuity. A six-issue American comic, the one about the Inferno arc, was also done, but since it was made in America (and was exceptionally bad), how canon it is to this continuity is in doubt. Also, Hitoshi Okuda did a very brief adaptation of the first Tenchi Muyo in Love movie, apart from his usual TM:R work, for part of his Tenchi manga.

Shin Tenchi Muyo!: This was the second Tenchi TV series, called "Tenchi in Tokyo" in America. It's the only continuity that doesn't seem to have any follow-up material beyond the episodes. Note that, despite the name, this has no relation whatsoever to the Shin Tenchi Muyo! novels - the kanji for "Shin" in this TV series is the one for "new," whereas the novels use the "Shin" kanji for "real" (or "true"), and they're hence called the True Tenchi novels, and are clearly part of the Tenchi Muyo: Ryo-Ohki continuity.

The Tenchi Muyo! Hasegawa continuity: Naoko Hasegawa worked on the first six episodes, and the Mihoshi Special (she invented Pretty Sammy and Kiyone) before leaving the actual staff of the anime series. However, she then published a series of Tenchi Muyo novels that spin-off from the OVA series after the sixth episode (that is, after the end of the first OVA series). These diverge more and more the further they go, and at last count, she'd written thirteen of them. The anime movie Tenchi Muyo: Manatsu no Eve (Tenchi Muyo: Midsummer's Eve) is an animated adaptation of the tenth Hasegawa novel (I said the ninth novel earlier, but I just now looked it up). The Manatsu no Carnival ("Midsummer Carnival") radio drama series is also part of this continuity.

Magical Girl Pretty Sammy OVA series: This is the three-episode OVA series of Pretty Sammy. While it came out after the Mihoshi Special (and is unrelated to that special), this is otherwise the first Pretty Sammy anime series. Hitoshi Okuda did a very brief original Pretty Sammy story in his Tenchi manga series before going back to doing TM:R material.

Magical Girl Pretty Sammy TV series: In America, this twenty-six episode series was titled "Magical Project S." It hasn't had any particular follow-ups or sequels that I know of.

Magical Girl Pretty Sammy: Magical Girls Club: This is a relatively new Pretty Sammy TV series that came out in Japan in the last year, from what I understand. The animation style is quite different from previous works, and the entire voice acting cast has also been replaced.

There are also numerous other things out there such as CDs, doujins, etc. that also take place in various continuities (usually in one of the ones outlined above). While in Japan, for example, I bought a manga that was a compilations of the single-page manga images released with the original Tenchi Muyo: Ryo-Ohki OVA releases, and also had some other stuff mixed in (such as a manga crossover between Pretty Sammy and...some other manga I can't remember now...Battle Vixens, maybe?). Oddly enough, this manga seemed to be done by Kiyohiko Azuma (of Azumanga Daioh fame), but I'm not sure about that; I'd have to look again to be certain, and it's in my attic now.

So altogether...yeah, it can be a little hard to keep track of the various Tenchis. :wacko:

 

[nuclear death frog]

and...some other manga I can't remember now...Battle Vixens, maybe?)

It's Ikkitousen, not Battle Vixens. Tokyopop slammed that series hard. The art is untouched but the translation is total crap.

 

[Terdwilicker]

I can't find the interview anymore. It was made with the creator of the series and he had specific things to say about Mihoshi, her ribbon, and his direct statement that the special was canon. Oh well.