Magic and Technology of MGLN

[Nanya]

Arf retired between the A's epilogue and StrikerS because Fate no longer needed her support as she had plenty of support around her.

 

[keroko]

As implied in A's, a familiar's expertise in magic or combat is solely dependent on their master, thus explaining why the Lieze twins have different specialties (Aria being the mage and Lotte being the fighter, not surprising for familiars of the former TSAB head Enforcer).

Doubtful. One of the main reasons to take a familiar is to have someone to make up for the areas you lack. A ranged caster such as Nanoha for example, would greatly benefit from a familiar like Arf or Zafira who keeps the opponent occupied while she charges up her lazer.

Remember that a familiar requires a constant mana upkeep from the caster. If a familiar doesn't support its master in areas they're lacking, it's really just wasting mana that could be utilized better.

Which is also why Arf retired and turned to a child form. Fate doesn't need Arf by her side anymore, and that small child form uses a ton less mana. As cruel as it may sound, right now this is the best way Arf can help keep Fate safe.

 

[Akiyoshi]

We can justify Arf having a similar powerset as Fate as the product of both being trained by Linith at the same time. It doesn't have that much with Fate being her master.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Which is also why Arf retired and turned to a child form. Fate doesn't need Arf by her side anymore, and that small child form uses a ton less mana. As cruel as it may sound, right now this is the best way Arf can help keep Fate safe.

I still call bullshit on that. Fate was doing just fine while maintaining Arf, when she was still a kid. If anything, Fate only got stronger as an adult rather than weaker, so why would Arf suddenly become an unacceptable drain on her energy?

Plus, how many fights-to-the-bitter-edge-of-exhaustion does Fate regularly face as an Enforcer whose primary job is investigation? She's not the only Enforcer aboard a ship, either; just like her brother before her, she's got an entire team of mooks to back her up, not to mention a magical spaceship.

And that's before even figuring in Arf herself, a partner who knows Fate's fighting style in and out and whom is thus most suited to fighting side by side with her.

Helping Fate with the paperwork side of the job isn't that much different from helping Yuuno in the Library. Helping Fate with the footwork side of the job is where she'd shine; who tracks fugitives as well as a sapient magical wolf?

There are so many reasons why benching Arf was a stupid idea, and not one good reason for it that holds up under any reasonable scrutiny.

 

[Akiyoshi]

Personally i don't liked Arf getting lolified and takend out of action but at least Tsuzuki made a decent effort trying to justify it so i just roll with it.

 

[Kaijo]

Sunder, it's important to point out that it was Arf's decision to retire and reduce her drain on Fate. I'd agree that you are technically correct in that Arf could still fight just fine along Fate without being a burden. But Arf decided that, since Fate had many friends to support her now, she'd retire and concentrate on supporting Fate in other ways. I believe she helps Amy take care of the twins, Karel and Liera. Probably other things around the home, too. I know she shows up in Fate's apartment on MidChilda as well. She also helped take care of Erio and Caro.

And for what it's worth, I kinda hate that Arf was shuffled off by the author like that. I would have liked to see both her and Yuuno get more screen time and fight time. In fact, it's much like how Yuuno could still fight, but he decided to support from the library instead, since Nanoha was surrounded by capable friends on the battlefield.

And technically speaking, that could have partially been the reason Nanoha was able to beat Fate, despite Fate supposedly being more advanced. Arf was a pretty big power drain at the time, enabling Nanoha to survive that Phalanx barrage. But that's just my own musings.

 

[Andarion]

We can justify Arf having a similar powerset as Fate as the product of both being trained by Linith at the same time. It doesn't have that much with Fate being her master.

That is one of the possible explanations but... while certain non-elemental spells can fit that, Arf could use lightning spells and she wouldn't be able to do that without elemental affinity. Seeing how mage uses their own magic to create familiar it stands to reason that their powerset, potential and probably even knowledge would be transferred to the familiar.

Take Linith for example, she pretty much instantly had the knowledge necessary to train Fate, that knowledge had to come from Precia.

 

[Nanya]

Actually, both Hayate and Chrono used ice spells without having Elemental Affinity for them.

 

[Andarion]

Actually, both Hayate and Chrono used ice spells without having Elemental Affinity for them.

That might have been the function of their devices though. Durandal was specifically designed to freeze things while Book of Darkness... well that thing is so broken it's not even funny.

 

[Kaijo]

It's specifically said in the accompanying A's material that Chrono had trained to use temperature control magic. So he could use Durandal to cast the ice spells since he had the training for it. Elemental affinities mean you just have an easier time converting mana into an element; it doesn't mean that only elemental affinity people can use elements.

 

[Nanya]

Actually, both Hayate and Chrono used ice spells without having Elemental Affinity for them.

That might have been the function of their devices though. Durandal was specifically designed to freeze things while Book of Darkness... well that thing is so broken it's not even funny.

While Durandall was designed to use ice magic, Chrono's training for ice elemental magic allowed him to use it beyond what the twins would have been able to pull off with it.

Hayate, on the other hand, doesn't have a device meant to use ice spells yet she was able to, in StrikerS, to use Ice magic.

In fact, the only ones with Elemental Affinity in Nanoha are the following...

Fate
Signum
Erio
Rio (double affinity hax)
Precia (I believe, have to double check)

I'm not including Rein Zwei and Agito in this, just to note.

Also, I may have forgotten someone in this, but I believe that's everyone.

 

[Hoki]

Actually, both Hayate and Chrono used ice spells without having Elemental Affinity for them.

That might have been the function of their devices though. Durandal was specifically designed to freeze things while Book of Darkness... well that thing is so broken it's not even funny.

While Durandall was designed to use ice magic, Chrono's training for ice elemental magic allowed him to use it beyond what the twins would have been able to pull off with it.

Hayate, on the other hand, doesn't have a device meant to use ice spells yet she was able to, in StrikerS, to use Ice magic.

In fact, the only ones with Elemental Affinity in Nanoha are the following...

Fate
Signum
Erio
Rio (double affinity hax)
Precia (I believe, have to double check)

I'm not including Rein Zwei and Agito in this, just to note.

Also, I may have forgotten someone in this, but I believe that's everyone.

You forgot the following people

Victoria
Harry
Corona

 

[Nanya]

When did Corona get an Elemental Affinity?

And I stopped reading ViVid when the tournament was announced.

 

[Hoki]

When did Corona get an Elemental Affinity?

And I stopped reading ViVid when the tournament was announced.

That's no excuse

And Corona manipulates dirt/rocks, she uses them as projectiles, binds, and of course to create Goliath.

 

[Rising Dragon]

That's entirely different. That's just the manipulation of pre-existing materials, which even Nanoha can do to some degree (as seen in the StrikerS manga). Mana Conversion is the conversion of raw magic INTO an elemental form like fire or lightning. IIRC, we've yet to see Corona actually generate rock from mana.

 

[Hoki]

Is that even possible? Earth elemental affinity is basically just shaping the Earth to suit your purpose. Sure it may not be the same as turning mana into flame or lightning, It's like water/ice element usage, you do not make water/ice out of thin air but gather the surrounding water/ice and use it as you please.

Nanoha can only control objects similar to telekenesis, like what she does for that one technique in the manga (I forgot the name...Strike Stars or something), not actively change their form. Corona on the other hand, can create a golem from scratch, move the ground to bind people's legs, and create pointy projectiles.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Having an affinity for earth isn't the same as having a Mana Conversion Affinity. Mana Conversion Affinity is having a natural capability of converting raw magic into an element. That's what Fate, Erio, Signum, Victoria, Hallie, and Rio are capable of; they can easily and naturally change their raw magic into something else. Chrono, on the other hand, has to actively perform the process for his fire and ice abilities.

Corona's abilities, on the other hand, is physical manipulation akin to puppetry. As we saw during her flashback in her fight against Einhart, she first used such magic to manipulate a doll. Her golem creation and control is just a heavily refined extension of that ability, as is the Meist Arts she programs as auto-counters.

 

[keroko]

I still call bullshit on that. Fate was doing just fine while maintaining Arf, when she was still a kid. If anything, Fate only got stronger as an adult rather than weaker, so why would Arf suddenly become an unacceptable drain on her energy?

It's not an unacceptable drain (at least, not for someone as powerful as fate), it's just a cost/benefit calculation. Like I said, the only reason to take a familiar is for them to compensate for something you lack. Otherwise you're just spending mana for something you could have done yourself anyway.

You have to realize that Fate only took Arf as a familiar because Fate found a dying Arf and took pity on her. This wasn't a calculated combat scenario. It was a handicap. One that Fate managed to overcome, but a handicap nonetheless.

Having an affinity for earth isn't the same as having a Mana Conversion Affinity. Mana Conversion Affinity is having a natural capability of converting raw magic into an element. That's what Fate, Erio, Signum, Victoria, Hallie and Rio are capable of; they can easily and naturally change their raw magic into something else. Chrono, on the other hand, has to actively perform the process for his fire and ice abilities.

These two aren't even confirmed for having affinities as far as I know.

 

[Nanya]

Rio has lightning and fire affinity, confirmed in the chapter where Sein groped everyone (including Tea's crotch and Caro's rear).

 

[keroko]

Rio has lightning and fire affinity, confirmed in the chapter where Sein groped everyone (including Tea's crotch and Caro's rear).

Dependably confirmed. One source translated it as affinity, another translated it as "I tried using both."

 

[Hoki]

Having an affinity for earth isn't the same as having a Mana Conversion Affinity. Mana Conversion Affinity is having a natural capability of converting raw magic into an element. That's what Fate, Erio, Signum, Victoria, Hallie, and Rio are capable of; they can easily and naturally change their raw magic into something else. Chrono, on the other hand, has to actively perform the process for his fire and ice abilities.

Corona's abilities, on the other hand, is physical manipulation akin to puppetry. As we saw during her flashback in her fight against Einhart, she first used such magic to manipulate a doll. Her golem creation and control is just a heavily refined extension of that ability, as is the Meist Arts she programs as auto-counters.

Though it is true that her signature magic is object manipulation, I don't think making golems out of rocks is part of her forte. If anything, it would've made more sense if she practiced and refined her magic so she can control multiple puppets (like Sasori), yet she did not. Also, it takes quite the skill to shape random pieces of rock into a giant armored looking humanoid, create stone pillars and stone rockets, and even arm herself with a giant rock fist.

Besides, as I said earlier, I do not believe it is possible to create solid matter out of a mage's mana. Fire and Lightning can be created from mana simply because it follows energy conversion. Most characters from other anime with Earth elemental affinity basically manipulate the ground/rocks or are made of materials related to the Earth.

 

[Nanya]

Rio has lightning and fire affinity, confirmed in the chapter where Sein groped everyone (including Tea's crotch and Caro's rear).

Dependably confirmed. One source translated it as affinity, another translated it as "I tried using both."

Hmm, if someone could post the raws here we could have our resident translators look it over and confirm one way or another.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Though it is true that her signature magic is object manipulation, I don't think making golems out of rocks is part of her forte. If anything, it would've made more sense if she practiced and refined her magic so she can control multiple puppets (like Sasori), yet she did not. Also, it takes quite the skill to shape random pieces of rock into a giant armored looking humanoid, create stone pillars and stone rockets, and even arm herself with a giant rock fist.

Quite a bit of skill... or the presence of a Device to support the user in creating such a thing. Remember that Corona now has a Device to aid her in her creation spellwork.

Besides, as I said earlier, I do not believe it is possible to create solid matter out of a mage's mana. Fire and Lightning can be created from mana simply because it follows energy conversion. Most characters from other anime with Earth elemental affinity basically manipulate the ground/rocks or are made of materials related to the Earth.

Vita's basic projectiles are solid metal spheres she generates out of thin air, actually, but we don't have any confirmation of that being a Mana Conversion Affinity or not. Either way, it proves that solid matter can be generated via magic, which Corona isn't doing. So it's not a Mana Conversion Affinity for her.

 

[Kireen]

Besides, as I said earlier, I do not believe it is possible to create solid matter out of a mage's mana. Fire and Lightning can be created from mana simply because it follows energy conversion. Most characters from other anime with Earth elemental affinity basically manipulate the ground/rocks or are made of materials related to the Earth.

I would like to point out that Barrier Jackets do create solid matter out of the mage mana, both cloth and metal parts by the look of things.

I know that maybe it's not a good example because it's supposed to be a multi layered barrier around the mage, but I see cloth and armor, and it looks pretty solid too.

 

[Andarion]

Besides, as I said earlier, I do not believe it is possible to create solid matter out of a mage's mana. Fire and Lightning can be created from mana simply because it follows energy conversion. Most characters from other anime with Earth elemental affinity basically manipulate the ground/rocks or are made of materials related to the Earth.

It might be reverse-anihilation process. You are probably aware of what happens when matter and anti-matter meet, they are annihilated and converted into pure energy. Thus a reverse process should be possible, converting energy into matter though it would require some ridiculously advanced tech... like the one the mages have.

Then there are precedences like Nasu magi who can make solid matter.