Magic: the Gathering [Official Topic]

[jwolf0]

I don't know if you play with sideboards in casual games, but I'd love to see some Bad Moon action in there somewhere. If there're too many other Black weenie players, fair enough. (I'm sure you explained Bad Moon already, but I forgot to review the thread before replying. eh.)
I really like the Wargear since the only way it's coming off is if the critter dies anyway - no one's gonna sideboard in artifact hate against this deck.

Seeing the Wargear made me wanna suggest being uber-greedy and try to fit in Skullclamp somewhere. Who cares about the -1 toughness if it draws you two cards when your creature dies? You may be able to swap out some mix of Muses and Totems for Clamp and a couple more efficient creatures like Hand of Honor. Oh, do you have any Hymn to Tourachs? Those are fun - when you're the one casting them. Heh.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Okay, new deck time:

4 Thallid
4 Thallid Shell-Dweller
4 Deathspore Thallid
4 Sporesower Thallid
4 Golgari Guildmage
2 Thelon of Havenwood
2 Savra, Queen of the Golgari
1 Nemata, Grove Guardian
1 Verdeloth the Ancient

4 Putrefy
4 Fists of Ironwood
3 Time of Need

Lands
12 Forests
9 Swamps
2 Overgrown Tomb

Thoughts?

 

[Aensland]

Apologies Genocide, but I'm going to be asking a question of my own rather than commenting on your latest deck.

I've been recently considering starting to play magic's online version, and was wondering if any one here has any experience with that they could share?

 

[GenocideHeart]

The only online Magic I play is on Apprentice. If you have it (small download, just 1MB), feel free to let me know via MSN or AIM when you are on, so we can play.

Apprentice download here.

 

[Aensland]

Well, I downloaded it, I tried testing the program out to get used to it so I wouldn't bog down game play by trying to figure out how to do something. The only thing so far I'm having problems with is when you play a card that searchs your library, how do you do it?

 

[GenocideHeart]

Well, I downloaded it, I tried testing the program out to get used to it so I wouldn't bog down game play by trying to figure out how to do something. The only thing so far I'm having problems with is when you play a card that searchs your library, how do you do it?

You must choose 'view' and 'My Library'.

Simple enough.

 

[lord geryon]

Well, I downloaded it, I tried testing the program out to get used to it so I wouldn't bog down game play by trying to figure out how to do something.? The only thing so far I'm having problems with is when you play a card that searchs your library, how do you do it?

You must choose 'view' and 'My Library'.

Simple enough.

I'm interested in playing you GH...

How would I get in touch with you via MSN?

 

[GenocideHeart]

Well, I downloaded it, I tried testing the program out to get used to it so I wouldn't bog down game play by trying to figure out how to do something.? The only thing so far I'm having problems with is when you play a card that searchs your library, how do you do it?

You must choose 'view' and 'My Library'.

Simple enough.

I'm interested in playing you GH...

How would I get in touch with you via MSN?

Just send me a PM with your MSN address. I'll get in touch with you ASAP. I'm about to go to sleep now, though, so you won't see me right away.

The same goes for anyone else. PM me your MSN/AIM address and I'll contact you and set a game up.

Can't wait to test my decks...

 

[Aensland]

Well, I downloaded it, I tried testing the program out to get used to it so I wouldn't bog down game play by trying to figure out how to do something.? The only thing so far I'm having problems with is when you play a card that searchs your library, how do you do it?

You must choose 'view' and 'My Library'.

Simple enough.

Wow... I feel kinda silly now... heh.

Anyway, I've got to head out for a bit, I'll pm you my IM later today though.

 

[Sunhawk]

A deck I've had some surprisingly effective results against non-block decks (and some very not-standard decks). It's not very tweaked, but is a lot of fun to play:

"A Wizard is Never Early"

20 Islands

2 Lotus Blooms
3 Mystic Speculation
4 Piracy Charm

4 Willbender
4 Voidmage Prodigy
4 Merfolk Thaumaturgist
4 Serendib Sorcerer
4 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
4 Riptide Pilferer
2 Brine Elemental
2 Teferi, Mageo f Zhalfir
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Magus of the Future
1 Ixidron

This is a blue deck with a significant morph theme, a significant wizard theme, and a lot of interesting tricks.

First off... "Pickles". Brine Elemental is a 5/4 morph card that, when it's unmorphed (5UU cost), each opponent skips his or her next untap step. Vesuvan Shapeshifter is a shapeshifting morph that becomes a creature in play when it unmorphs (1U cost) ... and can re-morph for free at the beginning of your upkeep. Have the Brine Elemental out and face-up (it costs 4UU to play normally), then unmorph the Shapeshifter to mimic it for 1U -- each opponent skips their next untap phase. On your next upkeep, remorph the Shapeshifter, then repeat. You've locked the game, unless they can kill the Shapeshifter.

Next... "Sorcerer's Demise". Serendib Sorcerer is a wizard that you tap to turn target creature into a 0/2 critter (they keep their abilities, sadly). Merfolk Thaumaturgist is a 1/2 wizard that you tap to switch target creature's power and toughness until end of turn. Together, you turn a creature into a 0/2, and then a 2/0 and it dies... even if it's indestructible (Stuffy Doll, I'm looking at you).

Voidmage Prodigy... for two blue mana and the sacrifice of a wizard (you've got plenty) you can counter a spell. It's also not a spell, so it cannot be countered (except using trickbind or the like). Speaking of which... Willbender. Unmorph it for 1U and you change the target of target spell or ability. It does not go on the stack, so it works against split second spells. Anything - ANYTHING with a target is vulnerable. Together these two do a good job of control... and, in regards to Willbender, the Shapeshifter comes back - unmorph to redirect, then remorph.

Ixidron turns all creatures in play face-down, they all becomes 2/2 with no abilities, and it has power and toughness equal to the number. Not targeted, takes out opposing armies, and most of the creatures in this deck can morph just fine. Get a second shot at those unmorph abilities, too.

Teferi works well to make all creatures you play have flash and to prevent counterspelling and suspensions.

Venser is there as an experiment - flash, bounce a permanent, but is otherwise Voidmage fodder. Likewise, Riptide Pilferer is a placeholder, honestly.

Magus of the Future... this one's nice. 2/3 wizard, you play with the top card of your library revealed and (key) you ma play the top card of your library. This gets downright lethal (although your opponent can see what you're drawing) -- a land pops up, it goes into play. A creature, does into play. Piracy Charm, play it. ANd then there's the newest addition...

Mystic Speculation. Sorcery, costs U, buyback 2 (so pay three for each iteration)... scry three. You look at the top three cards of your library and put any of them on top or bottom of your library as you like. Combined this with Magus of the Future, and you have a lot of control over what's coming into play NOW.

 

[jwolf0]

The Lotus Blooms seem unnecessary, they're free but with only two there's isn't a great chance of them being in your opening hand. If you want mana acceleration why not just use Prismatic Lens (I'm guessing you're staying in TSP Block)?

I <3 Pilferers, they work best when playing lots of other Pickles/Teachings/control decks. If you're not happy with them maybe some Fathom Seers (morph cost - return 2 islands. When unmorphed, draw 2 cards) instead? Using Shapeshifter to draw 2 cards a turn is pretty good too.

I'd suggest replacing Piracy Charm with Ovinize (1U Instant, until end of turn target creature is 0/1 with no abilities) because Piracy Charm frowns when Serra Avenger or Tarmogoyf comes out to play. I like Snapback more but it isn't as good here without heavier counter backup, even including Prodigy. Foresee (3U, Sorcery, Scry 4 then draw 2 cards) over Mystic Speculation because it puts cards in hand while letting you arrange your library, and putting some Deserts in for some Islands.

Kind of a shame this is a block deck. Patron Wizard (UUU, 2/2. Tap an untapped wizard you control: Counter target spell unless its controller pays 1) would be excellent here.

Oh, and one nitpicky thing: Unmorphing itself doesn't use the stack, but triggered abilities like Willbender do. However Split Second doesn't stop triggered abilities from going on the stack, only spells and activated abilities hence why Willbender is awesome. Mostly irrelevant, but just wanted to clarify.

Myself, I've been messing with a Mono-R Gargadon block deck online because I don't want to shell out for Damnations but even the Mono-R isn't where I'd like it, I have no Molten Disasters. I know, I should give up and play Apprentice or something.

 

[Mea Nihil]

Activated abilities can't be played with Split second, either, unless I'm missing something. As long as it's on the stack, you can't play spells or activated effects, period.

That said, Willbender is a good way to circumvent an opponent's own Teferi. Teferi specifically keeps you from playing SPELLS unless your stack is empty.

For the record, Teferi curls up in a little ball and dies when it sees Epic spells like Undying Flames. It hates seeing even one resolve, because it's not played - it's put directly on the stack.

I'd like to suggest either Meloku, the Clouded Mirror or Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Both can benefit from this deck - especially Azami.

Oh, and one nitpicky thing: Unmorphing itself doesn't use the stack, but triggered abilities like Willbender do. However Split Second doesn't stop triggered abilities from going on the stack, only spells and activated abilities hence why Willbender is awesome. Mostly irrelevant, but just wanted to clarify.

Willbender isn't a triggered ability - it's an activated one (you must pay the morph cost to use it). Thus, Split Second hoses the Morph itself. Sorry.

 

[jwolf0]

Oh, and one nitpicky thing: Unmorphing itself doesn't use the stack, but triggered abilities like Willbender do. However Split Second doesn't stop triggered abilities from going on the stack, only spells and activated abilities hence why Willbender is awesome. Mostly irrelevant, but just wanted to clarify.

Willbender isn't a triggered ability - it's an activated one (you must pay the morph cost to use it). Thus, Split Second hoses the Morph itself. Sorry.

Actually, morph is a special case in that is a static ability.

From the Comprehensive Rules:
502.26a Morph is a static ability that functions in any zone from which you could play the card itÆs on, and the morph effect works any time the card is face down. ôMorph [cost]ö means ôYou may play this card as a 2/2 face-down creature, with no text, no name, no subtypes, no expansion symbol, and no mana cost by paying {3} rather than its mana cost.ö Any time you could play an instant, you may show all players the morph cost for any face-down permanent you control, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. This action does not use the stack.

When you unmorph something it is the end of that static ability and not an activated ability: it does not use the stack. At all. If it was an activated ability and did use the stack, the entire mechanic would suck horribly.

"I unmorph Akroma, Angel of Fury."
"Shock/Smother/Bolt it in response."
"Well, shit."

Willbender and virtually everything else that has an unmorph ability uses triggered abilities. Triggered abilities use the words "When," "Whenever," and "At."

"When Willbender is turned face up, change the target of target spell or ability with a single target."
"Whenever a creature comes into play..."
"At the beginning of your upkeep..."

So Willbender has two abilities, the morph ability (static) and the triggered ability.

Example time:
Player A has a morphed Willbender. Player B plays Sudden Shock targeting the morph. Player A pays 1U to unmorph Willbender which is part of its static ability - Split Second can do nothing about that. Now that Willbender is unmorphed, its triggered ability is placed on the stack. Again, Split Second does nothing here as Split Second only prevents spells and activated abilities from being played. Player A chooses to change Sudden Shock's target to Player B. Player B promptly receives a face full of burn.

And I agree that Azami and Meloku the Clouded Mirror (of Victory!) would be great in Sunhawk's deck but it looks like a Time Spiral block deck so I didn't bring them up.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Well, given how many creatures it has, I'd even suggest Umezawa's +5 Stick of Gamebreak, which can double as control by slapping creatures with -1/-1's, but the Jitte is just unfair. Period.

 

[lord geryon]

Oh, and one nitpicky thing: Unmorphing itself doesn't use the stack, but triggered abilities like Willbender do. However Split Second doesn't stop triggered abilities from going on the stack, only spells and activated abilities hence why Willbender is awesome. Mostly irrelevant, but just wanted to clarify.

Willbender isn't a triggered ability - it's an activated one (you must pay the morph cost to use it). Thus, Split Second hoses the Morph itself. Sorry.

Actually, morph is a special case in that is a static ability.

From the Comprehensive Rules:
502.26a Morph is a static ability that functions in any zone from which you could play the card itÆs on, and the morph effect works any time the card is face down. ôMorph [cost]ö means ôYou may play this card as a 2/2 face-down creature, with no text, no name, no subtypes, no expansion symbol, and no mana cost by paying {3} rather than its mana cost.ö Any time you could play an instant, you may show all players the morph cost for any face-down permanent you control, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. This action does not use the stack.

When you unmorph something it is the end of that static ability and not an activated ability: it does not use the stack. At all. If it was an activated ability and did use the stack, the entire mechanic would suck horribly.

"I unmorph Akroma, Angel of Fury."
"Shock/Smother/Bolt it in response."
"Well, shit."

Willbender and virtually everything else that has an unmorph ability uses triggered abilities. Triggered abilities use the words "When," "Whenever," and "At."

"When Willbender is turned face up, change the target of target spell or ability with a single target."
"Whenever a creature comes into play..."
"At the beginning of your upkeep..."

So Willbender has two abilities, the morph ability (static) and the triggered ability.

Example time:
Player A has a morphed Willbender. Player B plays Sudden Shock targeting the morph. Player A pays 1U to unmorph Willbender which is part of its static ability - Split Second can do nothing about that. Now that Willbender is unmorphed, its triggered ability is placed on the stack. Again, Split Second does nothing here as Split Second only prevents spells and activated abilities from being played. Player A chooses to change Sudden Shock's target to Player B. Player B promptly receives a face full of burn.

And I agree that Azami and Meloku the Clouded Mirror (of Victory!) would be great in Sunhawk's deck but it looks like a Time Spiral block deck so I didn't bring them up.

I believe that unmorphing something doesn't use the stack... but any abilities that trigger when something is unmorphed do use the stack.

 

[jwolf0]

I believe that unmorphing something doesn't use the stack... but any abilities that trigger when something is unmorphed do use the stack.

Heh...that's half the short version of what I wrote. :sisi:

 

[lord geryon]

I believe that unmorphing something doesn't use the stack... but any abilities that trigger when something is unmorphed do use the stack.

Heh...that's half the short version of what I wrote. :sisi:

I misunderstood what you were saying.

I thought you were saying that abilities triggered by unmorphing something didn't use the stack.

 

[GenocideHeart]

I've been messing around with the Thallid deck. I've considere dumping black completely in favor of red for Anger and Scoria Cat. Given how I'm probably going to use up all my mana every turn, Scoria Cat will usually be a 6/6 for 3RR, which is good. And once it's in the graveyard, Anger gives all creatures you control haste.

Also considering Stampede Driver, both to dump Anger in the 'yard and to give the Saproling tokens trample. But at that point I'd want to add Primal Forcemage, and at this point wouldn't a Gruul deck be better?

 

[GenocideHeart]

Back from a triple Future sight draft. Can't complain, since I went there rare-hunting and managed to actually land a second place. My rare hunting got the following:

-Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
-Shimian Specter
-Nimbus Maze
-Grove of the Burnwillows
-Venser, Shaper Savant
-Bitter Ordeal
-Tarox Bladewing
-Glittering Wish

and a ninth rare, some weird ass blue Morph that's normally a 5/6 flyer for 7U, but morphs and gets vanishing for 2U.

All in all, excellent.

 

[jwolf0]

You really pulled some good ones there GH. I especially like Korlash, Nimbus Maze, and Venser. Yes, I'm a control player at heart. The ninth rare is Maelstrom Djinn. I've seen it used online in conjuction with Momentary Blink in a Blue Skies type of deck. I'd say Bitter Ordeal is the worst of the rares you pulled and it's not horrible either. Rare-drafting and second. Nice! :yay:

In regards to the Thallid deck, if you really wanted to keep the Thallid theme while going R/G you can certainly do so. Gruul is a great deck but very different in strategy than a Thallid swarm deck. Have you seen the mono-G Gauntlet TSP Block deck that's been going around online lately? It abuses Gauntlet of Power to put out Big Dumb Monsters, sometimes bringing friends along. I don't the exact list but it's probably something like:

4x Scryb Ranger
4x Magus of the Library
4x Wall of Roots
4x Thelonite Hermit
3x Spectral Force
3x Verdeloth the Ancient

4x Gauntlet of Power
2x Summoner's Pact

4x Search for Tomorrow
2x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4x Harmonize

1x Pendlehaven
21x Forest

I faced off against one of these online. Lemme tell ya, being on the wrong end of over 17 3/3 Saprolings was NOT fun.

You may also want to consider Baru, Fist of Krosa: 3GG, 4/4. Whenever you play a Forest, green creatures you control gain +1/+1 and trample until end of turn. Grandeur: Discard a card named Baru, Fist of Krosa to put a X/X green Wurm token into play, where X is the number of lands you control.

 

[GenocideHeart]

You really pulled some good ones there GH. I especially like Korlash, Nimbus Maze, and Venser. Yes, I'm a control player at heart. The ninth rare is Maelstrom Djinn. I've seen it used online in conjuction with Momentary Blink in a Blue Skies type of deck. I'd say Bitter Ordeal is the worst of the rares you pulled and it's not horrible either. Rare-drafting and second. Nice! :yay:

In regards to the Thallid deck, if you really wanted to keep the Thallid theme while going R/G you can certainly do so. Gruul is a great deck but very different in strategy than a Thallid swarm deck. Have you seen the mono-G Gauntlet TSP Block deck that's been going around online lately? It abuses Gauntlet of Power to put out Big Dumb Monsters, sometimes bringing friends along. I don't the exact list but it's probably something like:

4x Scryb Ranger
4x Magus of the Library
4x Wall of Roots
4x Thelonite Hermit
3x Spectral Force
3x Verdeloth the Ancient

4x Gauntlet of Power
2x Summoner's Pact

4x Search for Tomorrow
2x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4x Harmonize

1x Pendlehaven
21x Forest

I faced off against one of these online. Lemme tell ya, being on the wrong end of over 17 3/3 Saprolings was NOT fun.

You may also want to consider Baru, Fist of Krosa: 3GG, 4/4. Whenever you play a Forest, green creatures you control gain +1/+1 and trample until end of turn. Grandeur: Discard a card named Baru, Fist of Krosa to put a X/X green Wurm token into play, where X is the number of lands you control.

I expected someone to make a Gauntlets deck as soon as I saw it. When I read what I did I was like 'Heeey, they reprinted Mirari's Wake!'. And I wouldn't be surprised to see a multicolor version of the old Cunning Wake deck now that Glittering Wish is prowling around.

 

[jwolf0]

I expected someone to make a Gauntlets deck as soon as I saw it. When I read what I did I was like 'Heeey, they reprinted Mirari's Wake!'. And I wouldn't be surprised to see a multicolor version of the old Cunning Wake deck now that Glittering Wish is prowling around.

So I finally did a X'th edition draft on MODO...and lose due to lag. What made it even more annoying was my opponent complaining while before it happened about how lucky to win (he was at 1 life) I was because obviously his deck is better. It may have been, but jeez.

Anyway, now that's off my chest.

The only decks I've seen use Glittering Wish use it as a toolbox-type approach (fetch Hierarch, Harmonic Sliver, Teneb the Harvester, etc.) Building a combo-Wake style Type II deck would be hard since you can't get back Early Harvest to build up mana and go off. If you could get enough mana I suppose you can fetch Invoke the Firemind or Wish for Wish repeatedly until you storm enough to Grapeshot FTW....

 

[GenocideHeart]

I expected someone to make a Gauntlets deck as soon as I saw it. When I read what I did I was like 'Heeey, they reprinted Mirari's Wake!'. And I wouldn't be surprised to see a multicolor version of the old Cunning Wake deck now that Glittering Wish is prowling around.

So I finally did a X'th edition draft on MODO...and lose due to lag. What made it even more annoying was my opponent complaining while before it happened about how lucky to win (he was at 1 life) I was because obviously his deck is better. It may have been, but jeez.

Anyway, now that's off my chest.

The only decks I've seen use Glittering Wish use it as a toolbox-type approach (fetch Hierarch, Harmonic Sliver, Teneb the Harvester, etc.) Building a combo-Wake style Type II deck would be hard since you can't get back Early Harvest to build up mana and go off. If you could get enough mana I suppose you can fetch Invoke the Firemind or Wish for Wish repeatedly until you storm enough to Grapeshot FTW....

If you want an infinite Storm count, use the Composite Golem/Fool's Demise combo. Enchant the Golem with the Demise, then sack it. You get WUBRG, the Golem returns to play under your control and the Demise returns to your hand. Since it costs 4U, you can recast it, repeat the cycle and build up a limitless Storm Count, then end with Grapeshot for 15,000 or something equally ludicrous.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Here's a deck I've been messing with.

10 Swamp
9 Plains
4 Orzhov Basilica

4 Festering Goblin
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Ronom Unicorn
4 Shrieking Grotesque
4 Blind Hunter
4 Faceless Butcher
2 Twisted Abomination

4 Last Gasp
3 Pillory of the Sleepless
4 Faith's Fetters

Yes, it's a Pauper deck. And it actually works pretty damn well. Upgrading it to a non-Pauper deck is easy too - just place Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni in place of the Abominations, replace Last Gasp with Chainer's Edict and possibly use Nether Traitor instead of the Blind Hunter...

 

[jwolf0]

I've never played pauper, so I can't comment too much on it. It looks like fun, are there too many Black decks there to use Terror? If so that's a shame since the X edition artwork for it is awesome.

Speaking of which, has anyone done enough X edition drafts to suggest a color combination to force? U/G (my preferred choice in 9th...with about 5000000000 other players) doesn't seems as good in my small amount of experience.

Was Composite Golem reprinted in X edition? I can't remember.