Marvel-verse

[GenocideHeart]

Correction. He's done fine with those twk skills alone outside of the Marvel universe where power and teamwork trump power.

Besides, he's not the first power canceler that the people there have faced.

That's true. There's quite a few people in Marvel whose power is simply to cancel any other power in the area or block it anyway. Unus the Untouchable comes to mind... he generally 'lost' because 1) he's an idiot and 2) his own power has a nasty habit of going haywire, blocking off even oxygen and choking him to death. But his power was to literally be untouchable - not even psychic powers and harmful gases could get through his barrier. Only non-harmful gases (ie, air), and only when his power didn't go out of control.

There's also Subject Alpha, who shuts down any and all mutant powers in the vicinity, Juggernaut whose Crimson Bands project a field that only mental powers can penetrate (and only strong ones at that, plus that helmet needs to come off), Wundarr the Aquarian (who's basically Touma on crack, looking like Steroid Jesus and with a hippie streak a mile long) and a few others.

 

[Tornado Ninja Fan]

Does this mean Robot Santa will hunt Touma down?

No, but <a href='http://www.weeklycrisis.com/2009/12/santron-christmas-wishlist-contest.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Santron</a> will.

 

[Aegis]

<a href='http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7594/powerranks.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>To-Aru Power rankings tree</a>

Here, this is basically the power tree. You see touma way down there? Almost at the Bottom? He's THAT weak. Now, take into account that he scares the living daylights out of the EX class because he can basically oneshot them and isn't affected by any of the crap they pull regardless of type of spell work. And we're not talking about "Oh hey they're pretty strong" We're talking about "Oh shit Destroying the planet is their default setting!?". And that's without taking into Account Aiwass, he/she/it/tentacles with the infity symbol. That's the single entity I'm not 100% certaint Touma can destroy with a touch.......well he CAN but I don't know if he can do it completely since it can apparently ressurect itself even if it's core is destroyed. That thing is so fucking broken that people go into an unconcious state the moment it decends to earth. And you also have assholes like Crowley who can MAKE/mass produce EX class super-beings for the lulz. And keep in mind S- class can already go and auto-hit you or worse.

Touma might not be the first 'power canceller' but his cancelling ability, by itself, without taking into account that Touma is the one wielding it, is unique in how it works, it's origin and just what it CAN cancel as well as regarding potential, I'm pretty sure normal cancellers don't cancel out things like "Fated pairings" or luck(including their own luck). I'll remind you that he's shielded himself from a fucking quarter moving at three times the speed of sound and massive explosions(as well as shielding a VERY good and general area behind him, so obviously it's also affecting the laws of physics. I don't wanna rain on your <s>parade</s> pissing contest GH but just like ToAru isn't be all end all, neither is Marvel a comic that specializes in plot mcguffins and plot convenience just so that it CAN sustain itself. And from what I've read there's stuff in there that makes even the most hardcore fans facepalm. Notify me when Hippie Jesus can destroy Ley Lines, and THEN we'll talk about

Wundarr the Aquarian (who's basically Touma on crack, looking like Steroid Jesus and with a hippie streak a mile long)

.

 

[GenocideHeart]

What Wundarr can do is disrupt completely the power flow of anyone and anything within his area of effect. Note: he did it to Galactus, who draws his power from the cosmos itself.

In short, he can disrupt the flow of energy of the cosmos itself if he tries hard enough.

Leylines? Try cosmic flow. Seriously... the major difference is that Wundarr is a hippie treehugger, as mentioned, and thus never uses his power in an aggressive way - hell, he was attempting to REASON with the Marvel zombies. Y'know, horrifying man-eating abominations? He tried to talk them into ceasing hostilities.

If not for his <s>retardedness</s> naivety, it's been stated that Wundarr could potentially be one of the most powerful beings in Marvel, since he can disrupt and throw into disarray any and all energy flows in his vicinity, be they natural or unnatural - up to and including the body's own electrical impulses, which is how he's capable of making enraged people calm down. He could kill planets just by being there if he was so inclined and villainous enough to do so. But he's a love and peace freak, so everyone's safe. For now.

 

[Shaderic]

I don't wanna rain on your <s>parade</s> pissing contest GH but just like ToAru isn't be all end all, neither is Marvel a comic that specializes in plot mcguffins and plot convenience just so that it CAN sustain itself. And from what I've read there's stuff in there that makes even the most hardcore fans facepalm.

This is the thing that gets me the most about all of GH's arguments.

Marvel has some good stuff, I'll admit. But they keep trying too hard. And most of their stuff needs to END. Not die, END. The stories that come out now are basically gigantic mutated zombies, ressurected through a combination of magic, science, bad writing, and corporate meddling.

That, and Marvel itself isn't consistent.

Case in point, my Spiderman argument. GH pointed out that it had happened. I'll admit, Peter's smart. Really smart. He probably beat Galactus with either a plot device, or a clever plan. In a head on fight, Spidey is paste on Galactus's shoe.

Going back to Touma for a second, now. Yeah, in a straight up fight, he's not very useful. Regular bullets can kill him. I'd give him even odds on Galactus, if he isn't squished by rubble. And that's assuming he would even fight Galactus, and not instead do the smart and run the hell away. Imagine Breaker, when applied correctly, is really fucking broken. Then, there's the matter of Reality Warpers. Could one kill Touma? Probably, yeah. But, they'd need to take him seriously first. And Touma only needs to punch you in the face one, to shatter your delusions. Plus, he's fought a Reality Warper before. And I'm willing to believe in the standard of 'Warper's need to believe their bullshit, in order for it to work' applies to alot of other Warpers. So, he's got a working strategy, IE, his psychological tactics, 'You can't stop me. Watch, as I cancel your bull!'.

That said, if the Warper got smart, picked up a gun, and SHOT him, he's dead as a door nail. Failing that, a sneak attack works just as well.

EDIT: Seems I've been ninja'ed by the man himself.

As a matter of course, I'd recommend to whoever writes this thing to avoid bringing in Cosmic beings, god-like beings, reality warpers, etc. I'd find it hilarious enough with Touma catching Cyclop's eyebeams.

 

[A Curious Stranger]

I'm just going to point out the fact that no matter how hax Imagine Breaker itself may be, Touma himself is extremely squishy and can do jack shit against Magneto launching metal spikes into his brain or getting the iron in his bloodstream ripped out.

Or resist bullets being fired at him by any of the mutant hate groups that surround the X-men. Cosmic stuff is generally rare and most Cosmic powered people have their own shit to deal with.

I have to admit though, with all this wanking from ADD Kyuubi, what would happen if Touma found himself in DC and fighting Karate Kid. Because as much as his feats may be fucking inhuman, DC still says 'Nope. Normal human.'

 

[Aegis]

What Wundarr can do is disrupt completely the power flow of anyone and anything within his area of effect. Note: he did it to Galactus, who draws his power from the cosmos itself.

In short, he can disrupt the flow of energy of the cosmos itself if he tries hard enough.

Leylines? Try cosmic flow. Seriously... the major difference is that Wundarr is a hippie treehugger, as mentioned, and thus never uses his power in an aggressive way - hell, he was attempting to REASON with the Marvel zombies. Y'know, horrifying man-eating abominations? He tried to talk them into ceasing hostilities.

If not for his <s>retardedness</s> naivety, it's been stated that Wundarr could potentially be one of the most powerful beings in Marvel, since he can disrupt and throw into disarray any and all energy flows in his vicinity, be they natural or unnatural - up to and including the body's own electrical impulses, which is how he's capable of making enraged people calm down. He could kill planets just by being there if he was so inclined and villainous enough to do so. But he's a love and peace freak, so everyone's safe. For now.

Touma doesn't disrupt, he negates. Make him touch a god, angel or well.... Aiwass, who I'll remind you is some sort of super-alien thing(And what does it mean if Touma can erase Aiwass I have no real idea)And this immunity to powers regardless of origin spreads to his own body, be they benign or malicious. He's already fought powers that go above the capacity of his own, case in point being Fiamma who can touch anyone and with that utterly vanquish them because that's the rule, oh and his Miracle Powah is that of Right Handed symbolism, so anything ever done anywhere with a right hand his own arm can do, from healing to destroying "everything it touches without any destructive force" and even some magic, the asshole combines this with some sort of tracking teleporting skill. Of course the moment Touma touched his arm, he lost said arm(it broke?). Oh and the teleporting doesn't even use speed so it's literally moving in a single instant. And then he can also "make" a 40Km fire sword of doom. But of course that's nothing compared to Index's Johann's Pen Mode which he can activate at will.

As for Touma in a fight with the "X-men". His policy is "capable of winning one-on-one, maybe possible of winning two-on-one, and run away when it is three-on-one". That's how he views himself anyways, though the people around him do think he underestimates himself.

And another thing, apparently you can't study, think about, try to understand or make sense of Touma's Imagine Breaker.

When Accelerator tried to understand the logic behind Touma's powers in Volume 20, he felt extreme pain in his head, as if something was tearing the left and right half of his brain and splitting them apart, wanting to jump out of that gap and then gave up.

I'm sorry but that's just not normal, not even amongst the null powers

Also, Shaderic's got the right idea. Epic power isn't needed, all you need is a working gun+bullet

 

[GenocideHeart]

Touma doesn't disrupt, he negates. Make him touch a god, angel or well....? Aiwass, who I'll remind you is some sort of super-alien thing(And what does it mean if Touma can erase Aiwass I have no real idea)And this immunity to powers regardless of origin spreads to his own body, be they benign or malicious.

Yeah, yeah. I know that what Wundarr does is disrupt, not negate. He's also a raging treehugging pacifist who would rather talk it out with a bunch of zombies that just ate people right in front of him than resort to force, so he wouldn't negate out of principle.

The only real reason why Wundarr hasn't caused a lot of damage, according to Marvel, is because he's a hardcore pacifist designed to mock Superman and goes out of his way to NOT do damage, not because he can't utterly destroy something. That pacifist attitude got Siege and the Conquistador killed and himself nearly infected by the zombie virus, by the way - had he immediately subdued the zombies instead of standing there gawking first and feebly attempting to talk afterwards, two people wouldn't have been ripped to shreds and he'd not have had to go in hibernation for months to let his power nullify the virus's effect (yes, it can do that).

And another thing, apparently you can't study, think about, try to understand or make sense of Touma's Imagine Breaker.

That won't stop anyone with omniscience, nor any 4th wall breaker - both would simply KNOW about it, bypassing the comprehension step entirely. It's how omniscience (and to a lesser extent, 4th wall breaking) works.

I will be the first to admit that Marvel needs to tone down the massive power inflation, but until then, fact remains that the Marvel superheroes as a whole are so ungodly broken, the entire ToAru-verse is more or less mid carders when put in perspective. Not a day goes by when someone has to face a cosmic threat capable of erasing all of Earth with a stray thought - and win. All things said, compared to the threats Marvel's heroes defeated, all of ToAru tends to be medium-sized fish in a shark- and barracuda-infested sea.

 

[Aegis]

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, what with your knowledge of To Aru Majutsu surpassing all known fans of the series who actually READ the material before putting it down. I'll reply to your comment in a bit, but for now, I'll just enjoy rolling my eyes and waiting for someone with an opinion that I can regard seriously. I do want to make the crossover but I don't plan on smearing Marvel with hyper buffs that make no motherfucking sense. I'll stick to the base material and premise instead of the overblown fap-fest.

 

[A Curious Stranger]

lol, this entire thread now reminds me of a series of thread I saw on /a/ and /co/ once. Basically it was The Flash vs Accelerator, which everyone agreed was a curbstomp if Flash's favor which then devolved to at least 4 autosaging threads that was just people going NO U to the properties of Imagine Breaker against the Speed Force.

 

[zeebee1]

There's nothing I could say that hasn't been said. But that hasn't stopped Attention Deficit Disorder Kyuubi Naruto.

 

[Aegis]

There's nothing I could say that hasn't been said. But that hasn't stopped Attention Deficit Disorder Kyuubi Naruto.

You know, if you wanted to help out and "say something that hasn't been said". You could just go with:

Let's get back on topic, stop this stupid pissing contest and settle it with that there are things the ToAru-verse can do that Marvel can't do and vice-versa.

Anyways getting back on topic before the fap-fest continue, and I'll thank Stranger and to a point zeebee for helping me realize it and that I was wasting my time. Anyways I still need ideas on memory recovery or fixing Accel's body and brain and basic motor functions so that he doesn't need to depend on his mighty cane and choker of doom.

 

[GenocideHeart]

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, what with your knowledge of To Aru Majutsu surpassing all known fans of the series who actually READ the material before putting it down. I'll reply to your comment in a bit, but for now, I'll just enjoy rolling my eyes and waiting for someone with an opinion that I can regard seriously. I do want to make the crossover but I don't plan on smearing Marvel with hyper buffs that make no motherfucking sense. I'll stick to the base material and premise instead of the overblown fap-fest.

In other words, you're going to blatantly ignore canon in favor of your own view of how Marvel should be, so that you can live in your happy little world. Gotcha.

The best thing you can do is accept that MARVEL. IS. BROKEN.

If you want a setting where there aren't broken motherfuckers that can mop the floor with 99% of known Japanese anime, then try Image, Darkhorse or any of the lesser comics companies. Gen13 would be perfect.

Marvel and DC are too fuckbroken for a crossover to work, unless you massively nerf them to hell and back, or unless you use the heavily-nerfed-to-begin-with movie versions. Pick your poison, but if you use bullshit 'overblown fap-fest' to dismiss canon power curves, then don't expect any sympathy from me. When you make a Marvel crossover, you have to be prepared to either work with an equally broken series to cross over with, resign yourself to the fact the series you'll cross over will be B-listers at best, or massively nerf/heavily wank one of the two sides. Marvel had 50 years to make its setting massively broken, ToAru hasn't, it's as simple as that. The power creep is clearly in favor of Marvel.

 

[Crusader]

A question here: Why does does Touma and Misaka have to fight the good guys when they can do a temporary team-up against a common foe?

Do they fight because of a misunderstanding or that a villain has set them up to fight each other in order to complete some sinister goal, or an exchange of different viewpoints and philosophies that turns violent?

 

[GenocideHeart]

A question here: Why does does Touma and Misaka have to fight the good guys when they can do a temporary team-up against a common foe?

Do they fight because of a misunderstanding or that a villain has set them up to fight each other in order to complete some sinister goal, or an exchange of different viewpoints and philosophies that turns violent?

Misunderstandings are much more likely. Just look at how Civil War started - both sides had a MASSIVE failure to communicate. In particular, Tony was actually willing to talk, but Cap had to go and zap him into a heap instead of taking the chance to negotiate like Tony wanted. There's a whole What If that details how, if Cap hadn't been an idiot there even more than Tony the Douchebag was, things would have smoothed over.

In fact, most superhero vs- superhero fights start over failure to communicate, either because someone in either side is too hotblooded/triggerhappy and jumps the gun, because someone has a potentially harmful passive power and accidentally causes someone on the other side harm (hi Touma, I'm looking at your Imagine Breaker which is tailor-made to cause such accidents!), or because someone really, really poorly chooses his words.

So yeah, a fight between good guys is practically destined to happen. No way around that. And that's overlooking when supervillains intentionally set two sides against each other for various reasons ranging from nefarious conquest plan to just for the lulz.

 

[Aegis]

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, what with your knowledge of To Aru Majutsu surpassing all known fans of the series who actually READ the material before putting it down. I'll reply to your comment in a bit, but for now, I'll just enjoy rolling my eyes and waiting for someone with an opinion that I can regard seriously. I do want to make the crossover but I don't plan on smearing Marvel with hyper buffs that make no motherfucking sense. I'll stick to the base material and premise instead of the overblown fap-fest.

In other words, you're going to blatantly ignore canon in favor of your own view of how Marvel should be, so that you can live in your happy little world. Gotcha.

The best thing you can do is accept that MARVEL. IS. BROKEN.

If you want a setting where there aren't broken motherfuckers that can mop the floor with 99% of known Japanese anime, then try Image, Darkhorse or any of the lesser comics companies. Gen13 would be perfect.

Marvel and DC are too fuckbroken for a crossover to work, unless you massively nerf them to hell and back, or unless you use the heavily-nerfed-to-begin-with movie versions. Pick your poison, but if you use bullshit 'overblown fap-fest' to dismiss canon power curves, then don't expect any sympathy from me. When you make a Marvel crossover, you have to be prepared to either work with an equally broken series to cross over with, resign yourself to the fact the series you'll cross over will be B-listers at best, or massively nerf/heavily wank one of the two sides. Marvel had 50 years to make its setting massively broken, ToAru hasn't, it's as simple as that. The power creep is clearly in favor of Marvel.

You're either missing the point entirely, trolling me or bitching. Either way talk only when you know the source material. Unlike you I at least had the decency to explore your source material before I made any arguments. I'll concede that you know more of marvel than me, but your basic argument is made to make To-Aru powerless toddlers. You have no idea just what anyone on the opposing series CAN do so any argument you make is pointless. I will concede that Marvel is also heavily broken by itself though.

Either way until you've gone beyond viewing the name of the series, or hell even watching the episodes won't be enough, I rather not discuss this back and forth with you since you'll just dismiss anything I say in favor of a series. and much like before, I maintain that epic powered broken shit is more likely to loose to Touma just like a guy with a gun is very VERY likely to win and kill him off. And I'm not saying he can just deflect anything and everything thrown at him, just most things, especially reality bending things.

 

[Aegis]

A question here: Why does does Touma and Misaka have to fight the good guys when they can do a temporary team-up against a common foe?

Do they fight because of a misunderstanding or that a villain has set them up to fight each other in order to complete some sinister goal, or an exchange of different viewpoints and philosophies that turns violent?

Misunderstandings are much more likely. Just look at how Civil War started - both sides had a MASSIVE failure to communicate. In particular, Tony was actually willing to talk, but Cap had to go and zap him into a heap instead of taking the chance to negotiate like Tony wanted. There's a whole What If that details how, if Cap hadn't been an idiot there even more than Tony the Douchebag was, things would have smoothed over.

In fact, most superhero vs- superhero fights start over failure to communicate, either because someone in either side is too hotblooded/triggerhappy and jumps the gun, because someone has a potentially harmful passive power and accidentally causes someone on the other side harm (hi Touma, I'm looking at your Imagine Breaker which is tailor-made to cause such accidents!), or because someone really, really poorly chooses his words.

So yeah, a fight between good guys is practically destined to happen. No way around that. And that's overlooking when supervillains intentionally set two sides against each other for various reasons ranging from nefarious conquest plan to just for the lulz.

GH is right in this one, not just because of his power, but because Touma helps TOO much. Anyone that asks him for help auto-gets it if they need saving. Touma literally has no set of ideals he holds up or follows and as such it's been remarked he is very easy to manipulate into a situation. Just look at how Index got hurt. He helped her, destroyed her epic level protection and she got massively fucked, from there it devolved into a massive misunderstanding of just what the bad guys were doing. The same thing happened with the book of law. The Church of Neccessarius and the pope wanted Aquainas killed off because she could decipher the book of law and the Japanese church section wanted her alive because she could give them power. Without knowing so and by trying to help her, Touma handed her over to Neccesarius and had it not been for an interruption, trap and kidnapping, she'd have died right after without having Touma to fight for her stead and save her. Touma automatically has bad luck, though thankfully for now it's made to be designated for just himself. Unfortunately this means he WILL get fucked over massively

 

[Crusader]

<a href='http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/</a>

<a href='http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/advanced-game-and-modules.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/ad...nd-modules.html</a>

<a href='http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/box-sets-and-enhancements.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/bo...hancements.html</a>

Maybe all this old Marvel Super Heroes RPG stuff can help a bit even if they're outdated. I remember seeing some maps of the old X-Mansion in some of them.

 

[Aegis]

<a href='http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/</a>

<a href='http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/advanced-game-and-modules.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/ad...nd-modules.html</a>

<a href='http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/box-sets-and-enhancements.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms/bo...hancements.html</a>

Maybe all this old Marvel Super Heroes RPG stuff can help a bit even if they're outdated. I remember seeing some maps of the old X-Mansion in some of them.

Where do I look for the maps?

And thanks for the help

 

[GenocideHeart]

You do know that ToAru is CURRENTLY PUBLISHED IN ITALY; and thus I, shock of shocks and horror of horrors, actually HAVE acquired a bunch of it?

I'm not from Eagleland, where people can only dream of getting manga/anime that aren't massively mainstream. We actually get a nice variety of stuff here, and while I may not be up to par with Japan (but then again, I'm not up to par with Marvel either - there's about a 6 to 9 months delay between what's published in Eagleland and what is published overseas, so for all I know someone has just become Mr. God and can do anything with a fart), I'm far enough in that I feel like making calls.

Congrats on assuming things about me, by the way.

 

[Crusader]

Where do I look for the maps?

And thanks for the help

I think the old Children of the Atom Advanced Game Core Rule Book has maps of the X-Mansion or that one of the Uncanny X-Men Box Set books or the X-Forces Box Set has them. Edit: The Uncanny X-Men campaign book has maps of the various levels of the X-Mansion.

BTW: Various editions of The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe also has maps of varous places in the Marvel universe.

I also found this article that is a few more years up to date that the earlier sources I referred to.

<a href='http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/atlas/showquestion.asp?faq=9&fldAuto=71' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Xavier Institute</a>

 

[Maelgrim]

Is it really that big a deal that ToAru characters aren't the strongest things around in a marvel cross over?
Sure Marvel has guys who can evaporate suns and/or Gods with a thought but its not like you have to include these guys, the punisher can go years without fighting anyone more super then the Hoopster (or whoever the ring guy is) and you could reasonably ignore anyone bigger than say Mr Sinister, Dr Doom or Apocalypse for an earth based story (Lord knows most Marvel writers do)

 

[Liam-don]

Peter Parker loses to Accelerator once. He goes to round two with a devices that negates psychic. For Touma he'd probably need to talk with Mr. Fantastic first. Or he'd win the first time.

Writing a Marvel crossover is fairly simple. You just have to do the exact same thing most Marvel writers do these days, ignore roughly 75% of the things a character can do or have other people he got on speed dial do for him. Like cure a gunshot wound.

 

[A Curious Stranger]

There's nothing I could say that hasn't been said. But that hasn't stopped Attention Deficit Disorder Kyuubi Naruto.

Anyways I still need ideas on memory recovery or fixing Accel's body and brain and basic motor functions so that he doesn't need to depend on his mighty cane and choker of doom.

You do realize that if you're going to use the X-men, you have Elixer on your side right? The guy who can heal just about anything? Well, technically he can do other crazy shit like give you a brain tumor in the shape of a butterfly if he wants, but his main thing is that he is the single greatest medic ever.

 

[Aegis]

You do know that ToAru is CURRENTLY PUBLISHED IN ITALY; and thus I, shock of shocks and horror of horrors, actually HAVE acquired a bunch of it?

I'm not from Eagleland, where people can only dream of getting manga/anime that aren't massively mainstream. We actually get a nice variety of stuff here, and while I may not be up to par with Japan (but then again, I'm not up to par with Marvel either - there's about a 6 to 9 months delay between what's published in Eagleland and what is published overseas, so for all I know someone has just become Mr. God and can do anything with a fart), I'm far enough in that I feel like making calls.

Congrats on assuming things about me, by the way.

How far into it are you then?

@Maelgrim

It has never once been my intention to make ToAru characters into the strongest of the strong.


@Liam

Peter Parker would first need to get out of the Hospital or in the case of facing an Accelerator who's missing his Morality Pet AKA Last Order, pray to god he can escape fast enough since he won't live to call Mr. Fantastic. Also Against Touma.......he'd probably flat out win. Touma's good at fighting, just not that good.

@Stranger

Good point, I can at least solve the Accelerator Issue with that. Not Touma's though