Bleach New Bleach Filler Arc

Watashiwa

Administrator
Staff member
nick012000 said:
decibels said:
His Bankai gets nerfed every damn arc. It used to be so fast he was practically teleporting and could leave after images at will.

Now it's just like a very fast Shunpo.

He's being forced to rely more and more on his Vizard form by the idiots behind the scenes.
The only reason Ichigo didn't brutally kill Senbonzakura was because he was holding himself back because he didn't want to destroy Byakuya's powers. Also, rewatch said fight seen, and you'll see that he performed both of most notable his speed feats from his third fight with Byakuya this arc, and then one-upped them with his mask by parrying Senbonzakura's Pivotal Scene attack.
The problem is as much going bankai as it is his mask. Ichigo does not need his mask to take out Byakuya. He's become very proficient at using his bankai, to the degree that his bones will no longer crack under its pressure.

The fact that he had to use his mask actually proves the point that he's been so horribly nerfed that he needs his mask to stay on an equal footing against a captain that's 1 level below him in power when he goes bankai.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
It should be noted that the zanpakuto have access to ablities that their users have not yet learned.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
Timewave Zero said:
nick012000 said:
decibels said:
His Bankai gets nerfed every damn arc. It used to be so fast he was practically teleporting and could leave after images at will.

Now it's just like a very fast Shunpo.

He's being forced to rely more and more on his Vizard form by the idiots behind the scenes.
The only reason Ichigo didn't brutally kill Senbonzakura was because he was holding himself back because he didn't want to destroy Byakuya's powers. Also, rewatch said fight seen, and you'll see that he performed both of most notable his speed feats from his third fight with Byakuya this arc, and then one-upped them with his mask by parrying Senbonzakura's Pivotal Scene attack.
The problem is as much going bankai as it is his mask. Ichigo does not need his mask to take out Byakuya. He's become very proficient at using his bankai, to the degree that his bones will no longer crack under its pressure.

The fact that he had to use his mask actually proves the point that he's been so horribly nerfed that he needs his mask to stay on an equal footing against a captain that's 1 level below him in power when he goes bankai.
Yes. He was nerfed because he blocked a hundred million blades at once, coming at him from every direction. ;) :rolleyes:
 

Watashiwa

Administrator
Staff member
nick012000 said:
Timewave Zero said:
nick012000 said:
decibels said:
His Bankai gets nerfed every damn arc. It used to be so fast he was practically teleporting and could leave after images at will.

Now it's just like a very fast Shunpo.

He's being forced to rely more and more on his Vizard form by the idiots behind the scenes.
The only reason Ichigo didn't brutally kill Senbonzakura was because he was holding himself back because he didn't want to destroy Byakuya's powers. Also, rewatch said fight seen, and you'll see that he performed both of most notable his speed feats from his third fight with Byakuya this arc, and then one-upped them with his mask by parrying Senbonzakura's Pivotal Scene attack.
The problem is as much going bankai as it is his mask. Ichigo does not need his mask to take out Byakuya. He's become very proficient at using his bankai, to the degree that his bones will no longer crack under its pressure.

The fact that he had to use his mask actually proves the point that he's been so horribly nerfed that he needs his mask to stay on an equal footing against a captain that's 1 level below him in power when he goes bankai.
Yes. He was nerfed because he blocked a hundred million blades at once, coming at him from every direction. ;) :rolleyes:
That's a given, it came with his bankai. But resorting to a hollow-mask just to fight against it-is retardedly nerfed for unnecessary means.
 
Timewave Zero said:
nick012000 said:
Timewave Zero said:
nick012000 said:
decibels said:
His Bankai gets nerfed every damn arc. It used to be so fast he was practically teleporting and could leave after images at will.

Now it's just like a very fast Shunpo.

He's being forced to rely more and more on his Vizard form by the idiots behind the scenes.
The only reason Ichigo didn't brutally kill Senbonzakura was because he was holding himself back because he didn't want to destroy Byakuya's powers. Also, rewatch said fight seen, and you'll see that he performed both of most notable his speed feats from his third fight with Byakuya this arc, and then one-upped them with his mask by parrying Senbonzakura's Pivotal Scene attack.
The problem is as much going bankai as it is his mask. Ichigo does not need his mask to take out Byakuya. He's become very proficient at using his bankai, to the degree that his bones will no longer crack under its pressure.

The fact that he had to use his mask actually proves the point that he's been so horribly nerfed that he needs his mask to stay on an equal footing against a captain that's 1 level below him in power when he goes bankai.
Yes. He was nerfed because he blocked a hundred million blades at once, coming at him from every direction. ;) :rolleyes:
That's a given, it came with his bankai. But resorting to a hollow-mask just to fight against it-is retardedly nerfed for unnecessary means.
:rolleyes: So he should take out a Zanpakutou at the height of it's powers just with his Bankai?

He's not nerfed. He's more or less normal. Even more than what he usually is. The problem is that you want him to be overpowered.
 

Watashiwa

Administrator
Staff member
Patrick_Gleason said:
Timewave Zero said:
nick012000 said:
Timewave Zero said:
nick012000 said:
decibels said:
His Bankai gets nerfed every damn arc. It used to be so fast he was practically teleporting and could leave after images at will.

Now it's just like a very fast Shunpo.

He's being forced to rely more and more on his Vizard form by the idiots behind the scenes.
The only reason Ichigo didn't brutally kill Senbonzakura was because he was holding himself back because he didn't want to destroy Byakuya's powers. Also, rewatch said fight seen, and you'll see that he performed both of most notable his speed feats from his third fight with Byakuya this arc, and then one-upped them with his mask by parrying Senbonzakura's Pivotal Scene attack.
The problem is as much going bankai as it is his mask. Ichigo does not need his mask to take out Byakuya. He's become very proficient at using his bankai, to the degree that his bones will no longer crack under its pressure.

The fact that he had to use his mask actually proves the point that he's been so horribly nerfed that he needs his mask to stay on an equal footing against a captain that's 1 level below him in power when he goes bankai.
Yes. He was nerfed because he blocked a hundred million blades at once, coming at him from every direction. ;) :rolleyes:
That's a given, it came with his bankai. But resorting to a hollow-mask just to fight against it-is retardedly nerfed for unnecessary means.
:rolleyes: So he should take out a Zanpakutou at the height of it's powers just with his Bankai?

He's not nerfed. He's more or less normal. Even more than what he usually is. The problem is that you want him to be overpowered.
Not quite, because he should easily be able to take out a Zanpakto at the height of its power using nothing but his bankai. For him to resort to the hollow-mask is sheer proof that he's been nerfed.

I don't think you quite understand how his hollow powers work, but I'm not going to waste my time typing up a tl;dr. Raine will do that regardless.
 
Timewave Zero said:
Not quite, because he should easily be able to take out a Zanpakto at the height of its power using nothing but his bankai.
Why should he? When was he able to take out a Captain-level enemy with nothing but his Bankai, or outside help?

Understanding how his hollow powers works doesn't make a difference here. He had to resort to it, because his Bankai wasn't enough. His Bankai wasn't enough, because his Bankai is never enough. Because, main-character-ness aside, Ichigo simple isn't in the Captains' level.
 

Watashiwa

Administrator
Staff member
Patrick_Gleason said:
Timewave Zero said:
Not quite, because he should easily be able to take out a Zanpakto at the height of its power using nothing but his bankai.
Why should he? When was he able to take out a Captain-level enemy with nothing but his Bankai, or outside help?

Understanding how his hollow powers works doesn't make a difference here. He had to resort to it, because his Bankai wasn't enough. His Bankai wasn't enough, because his Bankai is never enough. Because, main-character-ness aside, Ichigo simple isn't in the Captains' level.
><






An idiot. You are.
 
Patrick's talking about whatever allows him to cast aspersions on the fictional main character he despises so.
 
Yeah, yeah, Ichigo-wanking, Unohana surprised... When did he demonstrate this level of power, I ask you? My question stands.

When you show me Ichigo defeating a Captain-class enemy with Bankai alone, or without outside help (And yes, other intelligence stopping his blood flow and giving him strength counts as outside help) I will agree with you that he can topple Senbonzakura alone. Until then...

Patrick's talking about whatever allows him to cast aspersions on the fictional main character he despises so
Argumentum Ad Hominem. I despise him because of his sheer absurdity, yes. If Naruto could stop the Shiki Fuin, claim to defeat Jiraiya, be saved in the last moment by the Kyuubi, without any consequences whatsoever, just to be toppled by, say Sakon, and still have a huge amount of followers claiming that he could kick the Third's ass effortlessly... I would despise him, yes.

Not that I have any special love for Naruto, mind you. That's just an example.
 

Sunhawk

Well-Known Member
on the topic of current eps...
 

atharris

Well-Known Member
Patrick_Gleason said:
When you show me Ichigo defeating a Captain-class enemy with Bankai alone, or without outside help (And yes, other intelligence stopping his blood flow and giving him strength counts as outside help)
If Zangetsu is counted as an "other intelligence" and considered outside help when healing him and giving him strength, wouldn't Ichigo defeating a captain class enemy with Bankai, also be considered with outside help? Since the other intelligence is giving him strength, through his Bankai.
 
Since the other intelligence is giving him strength, through his Bankai.
Earned by the right of conquest. Besides, you can say Bankai is "passive". The difference is... Well, to use an example, Naruto can access the Kyuubi's infinite chakra pool and use the way he pleases. His regeneration is also faster. However, the Kyuubi is not actively healing him or lending him her powers. Most of the time, anyway.

And damn it, Yama-jii is just fucking WIN.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
Technically the mask was the same deal as the bankai (THAT one at least, not that screwy new one...), though granted the issue is that Ichigo's bankai of late isn't operating anywhere near the level it should be, which I'd agree with. As in his bankai is being shown to be the equivalent of a majority of the captains with Shikai by association, and a few more without even that tops. The point in which he can't do crap against the Sealed forms of espada around the level that other captains are keeping up with rather easily without their bankai's.

And really, you know it's especially bad when Orihime can follow, react to, and more importantly block a blow his Bankai can only just barely perceive at the last second. A bankai that specializes in high speed combat... outpaced by a human girl with no speed feats to her name, and despite her god like abilities also never had anything that increases her perception to that kind of level remotely... >>

Edit: Further while Timewave is correct in that Ichigo is at least on a similar level, in all honesty he lost to both Byakuya and Kenpachi, although in such a way that you could argue a draw. What he really won in both fights was a victory through ideals by the repetitive notion of symbolism through the 'blade'.

Of course given the power boost he gained after defeating Kenpachi, he SHOULD be able to win now, though Nnoitra being cut by Kenpachi without taking off the patch when Bankai Ichigo couldn't do crap (while FULL STRENGTH mind thanks to Kubo's Cloak Retcon, though granted I wouldn't apply it to anything prior than the exact instant it was introduced but it's hilarious to see how it screwed things up further for the power scale) would heavily contest with that, even ignoring that Kendo BS.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
Pretty much. :mellow:

Random info on the fourth movie, as I'm too lazy to relocate to a proper thread given the content:

http://forums.bleachexile.com/attachment.p...=1&d=1261074866

All the translation guys could get is that 'Ichigo becomes a Hollow'. Oh boy, this is going to hurt... >>

Though if Hichigo's involved, as he damn well better be this time, it may not be as horrid as Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra, though I'm sure the humans will be equally useless all the same. Chad dammit...
 
Patrick_Gleason said:
Patrick's talking about whatever allows him to cast aspersions on the fictional main character he despises so
Argumentum Ad Hominem.
No, just a statement of facts as I see them. "Your arguments about Ichigo are pointless because you suck" is not the same as "you're complaining because you dislike him, rather than having a legitimate gripe."
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
Uh, from what I'm reading, his wildly inconsistent power levels in comparison to practically everyone else is a legitimate gripe. Might not be one you agree with, or could be one that you could overlook, but it has a clear cut basis within the realm of canon and thereby has a solid case.

Of course it's not the same level as say the people who are now turned off by him due to his shift in priorities of late after the Hollow battle, making sure of a fair fight first and foremost over his friends lives, but still a valid complaint.
 
There is more to equaling a captain than power and bankai.
This.

"Your arguments about Ichigo are pointless because you suck" is not the same as "you're complaining because you dislike him, rather than having a legitimate gripe."
Argumentum ad Hominem, both of them. You're attacking me instead of my arguments.

Besides, if you fail to see Ichigo's wildly inconsistent power levels and how his victories and pretty much set up, then there's no point in arguing.

I mean, "you're the only one who can defeat him because you haven't seen his release" is just stupid. It's downplaying the man who fooled the entire Gotei for more than a century.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
Uhhh... perhaps Ichigo's wildly fluctuating power levels in his fights are because his power levels are, you know, wildly fluctuating? ;) :p
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
They were. When Hichigo was trying to take him over during the sequence in which it was noted. Had a similar statement occurred at any point after that would have a case, but the sequence of events of the scene in question heavily imply that was due to Hichigo's intervention, which subsequently ended after the hollow fight.
 
Patrick_Gleason said:
Argumentum ad Hominem, both of them. You're attacking me instead of my arguments.
I can't attack what you don't have.

"Show me one time Ichigo beat a Captain with his Bankai, but where he didn't use his Hollow mask."

He beat Zaraki with Shikai, actually. He beat Byakuya with Bankai, although Hichigo interfered with that particular fight. In neither of them did he voluntarily draw on his Hollow powers. His Hollow side interfered of its own volition.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
Zaraki technically won by virtue of Ichigo falling down first. Byakuya also won by virtue of being the only one of the two able to walk away (And subsequently came back later to save Rukia with little trouble). And that's ignoring the hollow jacking in Byakuya when he would have died right there all alone, and that WTF thing he pulled against Zaraki that the hollow was technically involved with. Ichigo 'won' by virtue of ideals and being able to cut their swords, but had either pressed the issue at that point he would have died. However it goes without saying that in both cases Ichigo held his own there to the point in which it could easily have gone either way, particularly if he actually fought intelligently and were able to use Getsuuga all through both fights. Issue is that lately he's been doing poorly in comparison to, well, all of them really. Extremely so, even factoring in the masked form.
 
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