Meaning of course that at ranged the shots still cause damage, even to the top layer of skin since the hole got bigger. This is basic logic dude. A even blew out a hell of a lot more than the close ranged shots did in fact, since as you so eloquently put, it made the hole a hell of a lot larger. You're making my points for me at this point. :mellow:
Pacific Rim
- Thread starter Typhonis
- Start date
Ranged shots have a pretty big miss chance though. Leatherback was totally stationary and probably already dead at that point. As for helicopters... simply getting one that can carry and power a plasma caster would limit its mobility to the point were it'd most likely be Kaiju bait provided you kept to the same scale and didn't find some way to miniaturize both the power source and the weapon itself. The plasma caster is likely the only weapon that would even scale down properly as the Anti-Kaiju missiles were shown to be rather huge, the flamethrowers needed a nuclear reactor to maintain, the cryo launchers were presumably those huge tanks on the shoulders of that destroyed Jaeger and we never see the dark matter launcher in the film but it was stated to have been built into Gipsy Danger's forearms alongside the plasma casters.
The weapon itself is without question smaller than the choppers (Doubly so if there are indeed two projectile weapons installed there along with the sword) and though it's arguable how much power it would take to fire it considering it uses shots, it's also without question that the full power output of the core isn't even slightly necessary just to fuel one of the things. Throw in that the choppers here prove that it only takes 8 of the things can carry a full Jaeger with two plasma shots when we only need one, a bunch of other heavy weapon features, coolant, and EXCEEDINGLY heavy metal parts and armor that a single chopper would decidedly not need means it's entirely feasible that those very same coppers carrying it would be entirely capable of being mobile with the weapons installed, provided it was designed properly.
And as I've said repeatedly, designing something as simple as a chopper with a few tweaks is LAUGHABLY simple compared to designing a giant humanoid robot, keeping in mind we haven't even mastered getting regular sized humanoid robots working on two feet yet, and going bigger would bring all kinds of nightmarish weight problems to the design table. And that's just to start with, before we start factoring in things like ease of damage to the moving parts which brings more weight problems to the table, the power output and fueling each of the individual parts to keep them moving, cooling needs all of which would have to start from absolute scratch (Unless the Japanese had already started like they probably have but that wasn't even slightly said so I doubt it) which is a nightmare in and of itself. And then having to freaking design drift technology and the neural handshake out of freaking nowhere to boot, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few scientists heads exploded trying to work out all the logistics out in the process of just getting one of the damn things working, not having time for nuclear shielding aside.
And that's BEFORE they also designed the weapons to put ON the giant robots.
That said, the anti Kaiju missiles on the fast Jaeger were pretty small. Laughably so in fact, the fast bot had six of the cannon things, each of them tiny compared to his hands, and I reiterate, the hands are smaller in volume than the choppers in question, least on the main bot and I doubt his hands were much bigger. You could easily, easily install those on current tech without question. Not the full on six for a single chopper probably, but it'd still be damn easy and numbers would easily make up the difference.
As for aiming, the Kaiju are huge and notably not that fast on land, missing isn't that huge an issue when all is said and done. It might miss occasionally, but with enough choppers around a Kaiju at a respectful distance out of easy reach all focusing on firing sort of downward to avoid friendly fire while a few shots might miss the majority should do fine.
The far bigger issue would be dodging any projectiles or abilities thrown at them, which while it wouldn't be hard because thrown projectiles are thrown projectiles and the Kaiju winding up is a massive tell, could still easily would certainly make things touch and go if it flails with the stuff it grabs quite a bit and would definitely bring in some losses to the table in quite a few encounters. However, Choppers are easy to replace by comparison so that's not nearly as big a deal.
And as I've said repeatedly, designing something as simple as a chopper with a few tweaks is LAUGHABLY simple compared to designing a giant humanoid robot, keeping in mind we haven't even mastered getting regular sized humanoid robots working on two feet yet, and going bigger would bring all kinds of nightmarish weight problems to the design table. And that's just to start with, before we start factoring in things like ease of damage to the moving parts which brings more weight problems to the table, the power output and fueling each of the individual parts to keep them moving, cooling needs all of which would have to start from absolute scratch (Unless the Japanese had already started like they probably have but that wasn't even slightly said so I doubt it) which is a nightmare in and of itself. And then having to freaking design drift technology and the neural handshake out of freaking nowhere to boot, I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few scientists heads exploded trying to work out all the logistics out in the process of just getting one of the damn things working, not having time for nuclear shielding aside.
And that's BEFORE they also designed the weapons to put ON the giant robots.
That said, the anti Kaiju missiles on the fast Jaeger were pretty small. Laughably so in fact, the fast bot had six of the cannon things, each of them tiny compared to his hands, and I reiterate, the hands are smaller in volume than the choppers in question, least on the main bot and I doubt his hands were much bigger. You could easily, easily install those on current tech without question. Not the full on six for a single chopper probably, but it'd still be damn easy and numbers would easily make up the difference.
As for aiming, the Kaiju are huge and notably not that fast on land, missing isn't that huge an issue when all is said and done. It might miss occasionally, but with enough choppers around a Kaiju at a respectful distance out of easy reach all focusing on firing sort of downward to avoid friendly fire while a few shots might miss the majority should do fine.
The far bigger issue would be dodging any projectiles or abilities thrown at them, which while it wouldn't be hard because thrown projectiles are thrown projectiles and the Kaiju winding up is a massive tell, could still easily would certainly make things touch and go if it flails with the stuff it grabs quite a bit and would definitely bring in some losses to the table in quite a few encounters. However, Choppers are easy to replace by comparison so that's not nearly as big a deal.
I think the disconnect between what you're imagining and what I am is that you're treating the choppers like 'attack' choppers' which are hilariously tiny and actually able to maneuver when the things that carried the Jaegers are by design, pretty huge, bulky, not designed for actual combat participation, and difficult to maneuver without specialized training. Also that you're putting far more people in danger than just the 1-3 (depending on the Jaeger as Coyote Tango was apparently designed to be 1-mannable should the second pilot be incapacitated as happened in Mako's backstory) it'd take to pilot a Jaeger.
One thing that you're not taking into account is that they were apparently very wasteful with the Jaegers. Gipsy Danger is the first heavily damaged Jaeger to be fixed rather than outright replaced. I get the idea of a memorial but I think they should've just made statues of the Jaegers rather than leaving multibillion dollar machines in nonfunctional states. Hell, Gipsy Danger was still able to walk and fire a plasma caster when it was declared KIA.
First thing I'd do after the events of the film would be to grab the remains of Crimson Typhoon and Cherno Alpha and either fix them both or merge them into a new Jaeger. I think that all that Crimson Typhoon would need is a new head and some arm repairs.
Another thing to note: Jaegers really only became 'too costly' after the Knifehead fight, when Category 4 Kaiju became common place and they started losing multiple Jaegers per Kaiju. The implication that the movie had was that the Jaeger pilots themselves had gotten cocky after so many successes and the shift in Kaiju strength blindsided them. Then some idiot thought up the idea of a wall and didn't think to cover the thing with Jaeger-sized Weapons and the governments embraced that while getting their 'important' people out of harm's way. Though the government were seemingly also working with the idea that the Kaiju were just naturally occurring mindless beasts that wandered through a portal they found rather than genetically engineered weapons that had specific targets.
One thing that you're not taking into account is that they were apparently very wasteful with the Jaegers. Gipsy Danger is the first heavily damaged Jaeger to be fixed rather than outright replaced. I get the idea of a memorial but I think they should've just made statues of the Jaegers rather than leaving multibillion dollar machines in nonfunctional states. Hell, Gipsy Danger was still able to walk and fire a plasma caster when it was declared KIA.
First thing I'd do after the events of the film would be to grab the remains of Crimson Typhoon and Cherno Alpha and either fix them both or merge them into a new Jaeger. I think that all that Crimson Typhoon would need is a new head and some arm repairs.
Another thing to note: Jaegers really only became 'too costly' after the Knifehead fight, when Category 4 Kaiju became common place and they started losing multiple Jaegers per Kaiju. The implication that the movie had was that the Jaeger pilots themselves had gotten cocky after so many successes and the shift in Kaiju strength blindsided them. Then some idiot thought up the idea of a wall and didn't think to cover the thing with Jaeger-sized Weapons and the governments embraced that while getting their 'important' people out of harm's way. Though the government were seemingly also working with the idea that the Kaiju were just naturally occurring mindless beasts that wandered through a portal they found rather than genetically engineered weapons that had specific targets.
My basic point is the total weight isn't going to be much at all. The weight of the weapon is in-arguably pittance from the getgo, given how small a volume it needs to work factoring in all the extra stuff also stuff into that same hand including the mechanics to make it move and whatnot. The only deciding factor is going to be how much power it needs, and it goes without saying that the full reactor is massive, massive overkill for the one weapon. Few smart design choices and depending on how much power is actually needed and slapping one of those together with any sort of decent mobility is laughably easy by comparison.
As for loss of life... not really. One guy to pilot like a boss, one guy to aim and fire. Same number of pilots if it comes down to that (Though admittedly from the getgo much higher loss rates). And that's before we factor in the potential for drone technology advancements, which reduces the risk of losses to zero, either letting the computer do it itself or more wisely piloting it remotely. Particularly notable now because apparently that technology has advanced to the point where fighters can now land on battleships by themselves reliably, so in real world terms that technology is already making marked improvements.
That said it's hard to tell for sure if they were being wasteful about the loss of Jaegers or not, past the point of the Category 4's starting to become prominent anyway. It's pretty obvious that the main bot got freaking lucky to escape that fight with what little damage it did take, and I would not be surprised if they reactivated a lot of those old ones which were equally lacking. It wouldn't be hard to take a guess that not everyone managed to get out in as many pieces too.
I do agree however that the Red bot and the Russian bot need to be fused however. Then start development of Mark 6's, just in case. Keep them in storage if necessary, but make for damn sure that we aren't caught blind a second time.
As for loss of life... not really. One guy to pilot like a boss, one guy to aim and fire. Same number of pilots if it comes down to that (Though admittedly from the getgo much higher loss rates). And that's before we factor in the potential for drone technology advancements, which reduces the risk of losses to zero, either letting the computer do it itself or more wisely piloting it remotely. Particularly notable now because apparently that technology has advanced to the point where fighters can now land on battleships by themselves reliably, so in real world terms that technology is already making marked improvements.
That said it's hard to tell for sure if they were being wasteful about the loss of Jaegers or not, past the point of the Category 4's starting to become prominent anyway. It's pretty obvious that the main bot got freaking lucky to escape that fight with what little damage it did take, and I would not be surprised if they reactivated a lot of those old ones which were equally lacking. It wouldn't be hard to take a guess that not everyone managed to get out in as many pieces too.
I do agree however that the Red bot and the Russian bot need to be fused however. Then start development of Mark 6's, just in case. Keep them in storage if necessary, but make for damn sure that we aren't caught blind a second time.
Honestly... the solution to the costs that I came up with would ruin the world economies (while saving the human race!).
Basically, write off Jaeger costs entirely. Yes this would need some oversight in ensuring that someone isn't buying $9000 toilet seats or outright stealing the cash via accounting but you gotta do what it takes to live.
Striker Eureka takes $100 billion to make? Bill me. What you'll get in response is a well-edited video of it slaying a Kaiju, a certificate stating how many its killed total up to the point of billing and a card that says "You're Welcome".
Basically, write off Jaeger costs entirely. Yes this would need some oversight in ensuring that someone isn't buying $9000 toilet seats or outright stealing the cash via accounting but you gotta do what it takes to live.
Striker Eureka takes $100 billion to make? Bill me. What you'll get in response is a well-edited video of it slaying a Kaiju, a certificate stating how many its killed total up to the point of billing and a card that says "You're Welcome".
Actually, considering the US military's existing annual budget alone would cover about, you know, a quarter of OVERALL FUCKING COST OF THE KAIJU DEFENSE PROGRAMS from the past 12 years of combat, assuming 30 Jaegers plus maintenance amounting to USD2.4 Trillion, I don't understand why the world leaders were bitching about costs in the first place. Selfishness is one thing, but man...
I'd actually like for the "poor" public having a scene where they pool their resources themselves, saying "screw the system"; funding Pentecost's operations and giving the proverbial finger to the rich elite in the process.
Also, anyone have an idea what a Mark VI Jaeger would seem like?
I'd actually like for the "poor" public having a scene where they pool their resources themselves, saying "screw the system"; funding Pentecost's operations and giving the proverbial finger to the rich elite in the process.
Also, anyone have an idea what a Mark VI Jaeger would seem like?
Actually, if you stop and think about it, the people whining the most about the cost would be the ones least affected by the kaiju attacks.
That world's Europe and Africa.
Considering that they're on the other side of the world from where all the monster attacks are, it's highly like that they would be whinging the most about it. That's not to say that they didn't produce any units or offer financial support (at least early on), but I could see them growing more and more tired of funding "somebody else's problem".
And you know, we never were sure that the aliens sent anything but the big and obvious and extremely distracting Kaiju through the portals....
(which might be a thread for Pacific Rim 2)
That world's Europe and Africa.
Considering that they're on the other side of the world from where all the monster attacks are, it's highly like that they would be whinging the most about it. That's not to say that they didn't produce any units or offer financial support (at least early on), but I could see them growing more and more tired of funding "somebody else's problem".
And you know, we never were sure that the aliens sent anything but the big and obvious and extremely distracting Kaiju through the portals....
(which might be a thread for Pacific Rim 2)
I think the real reason why the bigwigs decided to scrap the Jaeger program was that they were not costly, but take a long time to produce. After all, out of the last Jaeger units, Striker Eureka can be considered the youngest, being Mark V and all. Also, I remembered it being mentioned in the movie, meaning they were sending multiple Jaegers for a single Category 4, and the Jaegers still lost. In a sense, Striker Eureka's pilot was quite right in blaming the Jaeger pilots who sucked.
It Comes Once More. Well sort of, the script is greenlit at least, hard to tell if that means anything though.
Also relevant news of interest: FUSION OF JAEGER AND KAIJU CONFIRMED. No word on fusing the Russian and Red bots though, just that there will be a 2.0 of the lead bot, which is sadly a given.
They lost about 14 Jaegers in 2024 and the most they've had active w/ pilots at one time is 21.
Raleigh pretty much established that everything went downhill after Knifehead as the Kaiju stepped up their game and started doing things like playing dead and using tactics. I believe it was stated that they started losing 1-2 Jaegers at a time to a single Kaiju even when fielding 3+ Jaegers at once.
Though, Striker Eureka's pilot had the best Jaeger period in terms of stats. It was faster, stronger, more agile and better armed than any Jaeger with the possible exception of the repaired Gipsy Danger which Mako took outside its normal specs.
Raleigh pretty much established that everything went downhill after Knifehead as the Kaiju stepped up their game and started doing things like playing dead and using tactics. I believe it was stated that they started losing 1-2 Jaegers at a time to a single Kaiju even when fielding 3+ Jaegers at once.
Though, Striker Eureka's pilot had the best Jaeger period in terms of stats. It was faster, stronger, more agile and better armed than any Jaeger with the possible exception of the repaired Gipsy Danger which Mako took outside its normal specs.
We've definitely bought ourselves time at least. Getting another portal up to the same level of capacity is going to take a hell of a long time, and now we know they're coming and we know how they operate. Baring the fact that they're going to take the remains of the main bot and start making Kaiju with them they have considerably less surprises this time.
I'd say finish building the wall, beef up the turrets, prepare for some anti air Kaiju weapons (At the very least take out the wings so Jaegers could actually feasibly take them on), and then start rolling out the Mark 6's.
I'd say finish building the wall, beef up the turrets, prepare for some anti air Kaiju weapons (At the very least take out the wings so Jaegers could actually feasibly take them on), and then start rolling out the Mark 6's.
Overall not too bad a blan NGD, the only real issue I have with it is the Wall. The main problem with the wall is that it's a massive resource sink that even when completed is tactically but not strategically viable as far as I can tell. I'm not going to say it's tissue paper, it did take a Category 4? an hour to break through a completed Wall, which in combat time is not to be sneered at. So to one degree or another Walls can stand up to Kaiju, the problem is whether or not it's worthwhile to spend the time, energy, and resources on Walls instead of other alternatives, like upgrades on Jaeger tech or research into the Kaiju themselves, as that proved every bit as necessary as the Jaegers themselves for the final mission. Plus the fact that every Kaiju apparently has identical DNA has interesting possibilites.
No, he's just an idiot who's never heard of the square cube law. The helicopters he points out are already the most advanced flying instrument of their type and we see in the movie that they are bulky and slow. Adding a weapon system larger than they are... well that means making it bigger which increases the basic weight of the machine exponentially. And then you get to add the weight of the weapon. And its power sources.
No, what the idiot is suggesting would never be able to fly.
Not to mention the silly retardation of arguing that the plasma weapons have range because they showed some effect from being fired into a gaping cavity in the torso.
You'd think if these things were effective from range the Jaeger's would actually open up all of their fights using them. They noticeably do not. Even when trying to save other pilots we see Eureka running to punch them in the face rather than open up with a barrage of rockets. Or Gipsy's big opening was a couple of rocket punches rather than shooting. But in that miniscule pea he calls a mind, the pilots are under some psychotic need to bitchslap their enemies before pulling out the 'effective' weapons.
The arguments NGD is pulling out is the results of long history of siblings fucking each other to have kids. We should forgive him for being the inbred spawn of sibling fuckers.
No, what the idiot is suggesting would never be able to fly.
Not to mention the silly retardation of arguing that the plasma weapons have range because they showed some effect from being fired into a gaping cavity in the torso.
You'd think if these things were effective from range the Jaeger's would actually open up all of their fights using them. They noticeably do not. Even when trying to save other pilots we see Eureka running to punch them in the face rather than open up with a barrage of rockets. Or Gipsy's big opening was a couple of rocket punches rather than shooting. But in that miniscule pea he calls a mind, the pilots are under some psychotic need to bitchslap their enemies before pulling out the 'effective' weapons.
The arguments NGD is pulling out is the results of long history of siblings fucking each other to have kids. We should forgive him for being the inbred spawn of sibling fuckers.
Or just roll out Mark 5s and 6s from the get go. The problem with the Wall is that they really have no idea where another rift could show up. Or if multiple rifts will ever occur. Its a static defense that has multiple paths of avoidance. A Kaiju could go over, under, through or even around the wall.That isn't even including how the wall would deal with multiple Kaiju at once.
I mostly say finish the wall because it's practically the only job people can get at that point by all appearances. And re-stabilizing the economy is going to take a hell of a long time so these people need to be doing something to say the least. You are correct though, no way in hell to tell where it will show up, though its a fair guess that it has to be underwater considering their world, or at the very least where those things were also happened to be underwater.
I would guess that the wall was finished a few days before Striker Eureka was decommissioned, as the media stated the wall was impenetrable, that is until a Kaiju proved otherwise. Decommissioning Striker Eureka would also imply that Australia had no more plans of making another Jaeger, as their wall is already finished, thus they thought they wouldn't need to build new Mark Vs.