SEES on the Midnight Channel
- Thread starter Aranfan
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Hmm...it's a possibility. Though, I'd still question why, since while they granted some power, they also didn't know about Persona. Then again...blah. There's a lot of bizarre things about Teddie. But, you could be right. Though, as anyone who's gotten the True Ending knows, there was probably at least a third party involved besides the two we've already mentioned...shards of power, eh wot? And given that those fragments somewhat resembled butterflies...well. Maybe it means something...maybe it doesn't. 
Unrelatedly...
Unrelatedly...
Hey, I've beaten the game twice and gotten the True Ending both times, and listening to it again on YouTube when I was trying to remember what all they'd said was the first time it'd popped into my head...possibly because I've been talking with Watashiwa about New Game+ a lot lately. But anyways...it's just a thought, might not be anything to it, but interesting to think about, no?
True, but, like I said, it's not so much an issue of the problems. Note, even after they have their persona, those problems they had didn't go away...rather, they acknowledged those parts of themselves as existing. Even after you max out their social links, it's not like they still don't have problems...rather, they've just managed to resolve some of them. Or in some cases, not so much 'resolve' as 'come to terms with'. So, it's more of a matter of denying yourself and your problems, continuing to repress them and pretend they don't exist...and given what they defiantly said to you-know-who after they'd descended to the bottom of Yomotsu Hirasaka, vowing to keep searching for the truth and figuring out who they were as they go on with their lives...
Hmm, that does make it somewhat easier to swallow...
True, but, like I said, it's not so much an issue of the problems. Note, even after they have their persona, those problems they had didn't go away...rather, they acknowledged those parts of themselves as existing. Even after you max out their social links, it's not like they still don't have problems...rather, they've just managed to resolve some of them. Or in some cases, not so much 'resolve' as 'come to terms with'. So, it's more of a matter of denying yourself and your problems, continuing to repress them and pretend they don't exist...and given what they defiantly said to you-know-who after they'd descended to the bottom of Yomotsu Hirasaka, vowing to keep searching for the truth and figuring out who they were as they go on with their lives...
Hmm, that does make it somewhat easier to swallow...
*Spoilers Answer*
That's exactly what caused the Abyss of Time to appear: they couldn't get over Minato's death. As for personal problems... Well, they probably accepted some things in The Journey, but certainly not on the level of what we've seen in P4.
The only one of SEES that I'm 100% sure will not have to face a Shadow is Aigis. Well, Koromaru too, but that's a given.
That's exactly what caused the Abyss of Time to appear: they couldn't get over Minato's death. As for personal problems... Well, they probably accepted some things in The Journey, but certainly not on the level of what we've seen in P4.
The only one of SEES that I'm 100% sure will not have to face a Shadow is Aigis. Well, Koromaru too, but that's a given.
EXACTLy, Megaolix...SEES didn't face themselves on the same level that the P4 crew did. As such, I think that over the year between the Answer and P4's beginning, SEES' Personas weaken to the point where they return to their original form, and they lose the ability to use them....as such, when the SEES member end up in the Midnight Channel, they have to face themselves before regaining their Persona, and would then have to do what the P4 heroes did to regain their Personas' true form.
You still don't seem to get what it is that Luthorne is trying to get across though. Dealing with personal problems does NOT canonically have anything to do with getting a persona.
Ways of getting a persona:
You can be gifted with one by a powerful entity (the various people who Nyarlathotep gave them to in the first two games [note that a few of the gifted persona were in fact Nyarlathotep himself disguising himself as said persona]; the protagonist and one of the antagonists of Persona 4 may fall under this as well depending on how you interpret events taking place).
Entering Philemon's world and having a strong enough ego that you don't lose your self-identity (Persona 1 if I remember correctly). Having this occur grants one the ability to use persona.
Encountering a supernatural event that heavily stresses the user. Persona 2 started with this, having two of the protagonists suddenly manifesting Persona when faced with a fight with an opponent who had a Persona themself (Note that this occurs before they meet up with Philemon, though since only those who meet Philemon or at the very least his servants can summon multiple persona, it's possible that meeting with him doesn't actually grant the Persona ability, but instead the Wild Card ability). This was also used in the case of Mitsuru from P3.
Facing your inner shadow within the world's heart and accepting it as a part of yourself. You DO NOT have to deal with your problems immediately upon this happening, you simply have to accept it as a part of you.
That's it.
I can't think of anything else that would particularly count aside from those, though this isn't exactly to say that "You can't do that, so nyeh." But any fic that suddenly tosses those out the window has to have a reasoning somewhere for why unless they're planning on just making an AU, and 'having problems' isn't going to suddenly degrade your Persona since all of the characters in the Persona games continued to have problems throughout all of the games, and even if they got over them, new ones would invariably pop up.
And as a random aside: Nyarlathotep had a habit of tossing around Shadow Selves to fight against the party. Coincidence? I think not.
Ways of getting a persona:
You can be gifted with one by a powerful entity (the various people who Nyarlathotep gave them to in the first two games [note that a few of the gifted persona were in fact Nyarlathotep himself disguising himself as said persona]; the protagonist and one of the antagonists of Persona 4 may fall under this as well depending on how you interpret events taking place).
Entering Philemon's world and having a strong enough ego that you don't lose your self-identity (Persona 1 if I remember correctly). Having this occur grants one the ability to use persona.
Encountering a supernatural event that heavily stresses the user. Persona 2 started with this, having two of the protagonists suddenly manifesting Persona when faced with a fight with an opponent who had a Persona themself (Note that this occurs before they meet up with Philemon, though since only those who meet Philemon or at the very least his servants can summon multiple persona, it's possible that meeting with him doesn't actually grant the Persona ability, but instead the Wild Card ability). This was also used in the case of Mitsuru from P3.
Facing your inner shadow within the world's heart and accepting it as a part of yourself. You DO NOT have to deal with your problems immediately upon this happening, you simply have to accept it as a part of you.
That's it.
I can't think of anything else that would particularly count aside from those, though this isn't exactly to say that "You can't do that, so nyeh." But any fic that suddenly tosses those out the window has to have a reasoning somewhere for why unless they're planning on just making an AU, and 'having problems' isn't going to suddenly degrade your Persona since all of the characters in the Persona games continued to have problems throughout all of the games, and even if they got over them, new ones would invariably pop up.
And as a random aside: Nyarlathotep had a habit of tossing around Shadow Selves to fight against the party. Coincidence? I think not.
One mistake, foreverzero--in Philemons realm the Persona 1 cast remembered their names (self, in other words). Philemon was so impressed that he unlocked their Persona abilities for them.
So it is once again part of case 1: granting by supernatural entity.
Also: LOL Super Guido. Just saw some of that.
Ow. Freaking "Massacre". :rofl:
So it is once again part of case 1: granting by supernatural entity.
Also: LOL Super Guido. Just saw some of that.
Ow. Freaking "Massacre". :rofl:
In this case, foreverzero, the last instance you listed would be how SEES regained their Personas.
Anyway, how would SEES be attracted to Inaba? I'm thinking that during the period of time where you would normally have to catch Mitsuo, a news article talking about the rising artist Chidori staying at the Amagi Inn leads to her getting on the Midnight Channel, and getting tossed in.
When Junpei hears about this, he foolishly rushes in to find her, and ends up bumping into the Investigation Team as they're entering the TV world, and he falls in.
A la Chie, he rushes in...and finds his Shadow. We know what happens next....the P4 heroes have to save his sorry butt. This could lead to Junpei telling his former SEES friends about what happened to him the day he's saved, and they end up coming to Inaba; Junpei leads them in on their own...and the chaos begins...
Anyway, how would SEES be attracted to Inaba? I'm thinking that during the period of time where you would normally have to catch Mitsuo, a news article talking about the rising artist Chidori staying at the Amagi Inn leads to her getting on the Midnight Channel, and getting tossed in.
When Junpei hears about this, he foolishly rushes in to find her, and ends up bumping into the Investigation Team as they're entering the TV world, and he falls in.
A la Chie, he rushes in...and finds his Shadow. We know what happens next....the P4 heroes have to save his sorry butt. This could lead to Junpei telling his former SEES friends about what happened to him the day he's saved, and they end up coming to Inaba; Junpei leads them in on their own...and the chaos begins...
This.
Since this is a "What If" thread pondering what the various P3 characters' potential shadows would be like, I see no problem with just ignoring all of the fuss and doing as the OP asked: grabbing a character from some various point in the P3 timeline and figuring out what their potential shadow would be like.
But, DrTempo, you keep ignoring that and trying to justify the idea as plausible without actually adressing the problems, instead trying to handwave everything away without actually thinking it through first. There is nothing whatsoever to imply that you can just 'unpersonafy' someone and jack their persona out of them. The only case I can think of that came close was when the corrosive Joker persona was removed by Igor in P2 after it possessed one of the main characters, though I very much doubt that the actual person was unwilling in having said persona removed (which would at least suggest that a persona could be possibly removed by a powerful entity, like Watashiwa has theorised Minato became). <.<"
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As for how I think some of their shadows would act (though it is dependant on when it is you're making them face their shadow: pre-P3, immediately post-P3, or sometime during P4):
Junpei: I would think it would actually be a lot like Yosuke's though less selfishly childish in certain aspects and with more of a jealous angle. If it was post P3, he'd also possibly have certain internal issues with the whole Chidori fiasco (even more-so if you go with the route where she died, as opposed to the possibly non-canon route where she "got better"). He never once really seemed to have any problem with fighting the shadows, because in his own words it made him feel like a hero, and considering how the shadow selves tend to act I figure that would probably be tossed in as well, though in a twisted form.
Mitsuru: despite her Ice Princess facade, she tended to actually be pretty innocent about the ways of the world outside of the upbringing she had (a few moments during her social link, being surprised enough at the state of Junpei's room that she called the cops thinking there was a burglary going on, and probably a couple I'm not thinking about) so I figure her shadow would probably taunt her with that fact, mentioning how little she really knew of the world despite the act she put on for others. Pre-P3, her shadow would probably mention her need for her father's attention and approval, as well as her shame at what her family did. If you go with making her S. link canon, then post-P3 she'd probably still have problems concerning losing the protagonist, considering he became extremely important to her and she fell in love with him over the course of it; on the other hand if you go with that not being canon, then she's most likely currently in a loveless marriage with some jerk who's older than her.
I'm too tired to do the others since I haven't slept yet, and I don't feel like contemplating just what the various characters' shadow selves would look like once they went wild at the moment, so I bid you all adieu. >:/
Since this is a "What If" thread pondering what the various P3 characters' potential shadows would be like, I see no problem with just ignoring all of the fuss and doing as the OP asked: grabbing a character from some various point in the P3 timeline and figuring out what their potential shadow would be like.
But, DrTempo, you keep ignoring that and trying to justify the idea as plausible without actually adressing the problems, instead trying to handwave everything away without actually thinking it through first. There is nothing whatsoever to imply that you can just 'unpersonafy' someone and jack their persona out of them. The only case I can think of that came close was when the corrosive Joker persona was removed by Igor in P2 after it possessed one of the main characters, though I very much doubt that the actual person was unwilling in having said persona removed (which would at least suggest that a persona could be possibly removed by a powerful entity, like Watashiwa has theorised Minato became). <.<"
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As for how I think some of their shadows would act (though it is dependant on when it is you're making them face their shadow: pre-P3, immediately post-P3, or sometime during P4):
Junpei: I would think it would actually be a lot like Yosuke's though less selfishly childish in certain aspects and with more of a jealous angle. If it was post P3, he'd also possibly have certain internal issues with the whole Chidori fiasco (even more-so if you go with the route where she died, as opposed to the possibly non-canon route where she "got better"). He never once really seemed to have any problem with fighting the shadows, because in his own words it made him feel like a hero, and considering how the shadow selves tend to act I figure that would probably be tossed in as well, though in a twisted form.
Mitsuru: despite her Ice Princess facade, she tended to actually be pretty innocent about the ways of the world outside of the upbringing she had (a few moments during her social link, being surprised enough at the state of Junpei's room that she called the cops thinking there was a burglary going on, and probably a couple I'm not thinking about) so I figure her shadow would probably taunt her with that fact, mentioning how little she really knew of the world despite the act she put on for others. Pre-P3, her shadow would probably mention her need for her father's attention and approval, as well as her shame at what her family did. If you go with making her S. link canon, then post-P3 she'd probably still have problems concerning losing the protagonist, considering he became extremely important to her and she fell in love with him over the course of it; on the other hand if you go with that not being canon, then she's most likely currently in a loveless marriage with some jerk who's older than her.
I'm too tired to do the others since I haven't slept yet, and I don't feel like contemplating just what the various characters' shadow selves would look like once they went wild at the moment, so I bid you all adieu. >:/
Sorry, Luthorne...I just was trying to explain how the fic would be set up if someone tried to use this plotline...Your idea with Minato does make sense, though. And I didn;t mean that they lost their Persona; they just could no longer use it; it was still there, just beyond their reach(again, I refer to "Persona 4: Five Years Later" as the example of what I meant.)
I'm the one who suggested Minato.
And actually, the SEES team does canonically lose their Personae. I just remembered. Freaking -trinity soul-.
Argh. The -ts- anime is set ten years after the end of Persona 3 game, but the only Persona character who shows up is Akihiko--AND HE'S LOST CAESAR.
He says that everyone from his old group used to be Persona users, and that they've all lost their Persona. Someone asks if they lost their Persona because they gave up on trying to "keep their hearts to it". (To hell with you, illiterate dub team. <_< ) In other words, the SEES team, between Persona 3 and -ts- lost themselves. They forgot their dreams, gave up on trying to change the world, etc.
And actually, the SEES team does canonically lose their Personae. I just remembered. Freaking -trinity soul-.
Argh. The -ts- anime is set ten years after the end of Persona 3 game, but the only Persona character who shows up is Akihiko--AND HE'S LOST CAESAR.
He says that everyone from his old group used to be Persona users, and that they've all lost their Persona. Someone asks if they lost their Persona because they gave up on trying to "keep their hearts to it". (To hell with you, illiterate dub team. <_< ) In other words, the SEES team, between Persona 3 and -ts- lost themselves. They forgot their dreams, gave up on trying to change the world, etc.