Nasuverse Shirou's Servant: Rin

[Prince Charon]

Taken from Archer Remembers.

OK, what if Shirou got a future Rin who remembers her version of the Holy Grail War?? If she's a Caster, someone else would presumably have Saber (or a Saber, anyway), but she did use the Jeweled Sword of Zelretch, and if her future self used that or other swords often enough, the author might be able to justify making her a Saber.

Weirder/sillier thought: his Servant is Magical Girl Kaleido-Ruby.

Well, I'd say that Rin becoming a heroic spirit is unlikely, but it could work, yes.

--No, wait, I take that back. It becomes very likely if it were Kaleido Ruby. Heh. ^^;;

I'm not sure Saber would be possible 'though. Even disregarding Zelretch's function, I don't believe Rin's stats would be good enough.

Caster, then? What other classes are reasonable (particularly for Kaleido-Ruby)?

Most class requirements are more about stats and events in life then weaponry or anything of the like. Assasin can be ruled out as a class since she is not part of the guild/order or whatever it is called.

Berserker as well since as far as I know, that simply requires one to go crazy in life, and Rin/Kaleido Ruby never went insane as far as I know, unless you want to make up events/backstory for that.

Lancer can also most likely be ruled out, as I am doubtful that Rin really meets the agility requirements that the Lancer class requires.

I am not sure of the requirements for the Rider class, so I can't really say on that, though I don't think it would really be very fitting.

Saber was already touched on, Rin most likely just simply doesn't have the overall stat requirements.

So aside from Caster, the only possible other chouce might be Archer. As far as I can remember , there isn't really much in the way of requirements for the Archer class. There might be something that I am unaware of for the Archer class that rules it out as well, but the point is that it is basically the only other class that she might have a chance of falling under.

So, Future!Rin became an Epic Hero, and is Shirou's Servant in the Fifth Holy Grail War. (Alternatively, she might be Sakura's Servant, instead, or even Present!Rin's. :snigger: Imagine Rin's reaction to a Servant who is clearly her future self.)

Her class is likely to be Caster or Archer, as sigfried27 pointed out, above. Assume she remembers some version of the Fifth Holy Grail War, is about as fond of Shirou and Sakura as canon Rin is, ans is aware of Shinji's and Z?ken's history with Sakura.

How likely is she to want to get rid of the two creeps, and how capable would she be of doing so?

How would her presence alter the War?

So, thoughts?

 

[Shiakou]

. . . I can just imagine the meeting between Shirou and his Servant!Rin, and Rin and her Servant!Emiya.

Cue WTFs?! all around. Especially if Archer remembers his past.

 

[knight_of_ni]

Well, you could say that because they both had that jewel when they summoned their servants, they ended up summoning future versions of the other.

Other than that, well, Archer lost his memory because Rin messed up, and honestly, it think that the caster class suites Rin better than the archer class.

 

[toraneko]

I'm not 100% certain, but I think Rin might actually be able to qualify as Saber. One of the requirements of the Saber class is that the Hero must have high stats all-around, and Rin does have that - especially when she's using her magic to reinforce her body.

Or at least, that was the impression I got of her back when the Fuyuki Wiki was still up.

Jewel Sword Zelretch would make for a pretty impressive Noble Phantasm (doesn't it qualify as one in HF?), and might do to fill a "uses swords" requirement.

I do prefer the idea of Kaleido-Ruby as Caster, though. Lulz ahoy. :snigger:

 

[ttestagr]

Also, stats can be improved by a contract with the world. If that is what you want anyway. So it would be doable to have Rin manage as a Saber.


Though that would cut out Arturia, which makes me sad.

 

[Fatuous One]

I'm not 100% certain, but I think Rin might actually be able to qualify as Saber. One of the requirements of the Saber class is that the Hero must have high stats all-around, and Rin does have that - especially when she's using her magic to reinforce her body.

If that were the case, then Medea should be able to qualify for the stats. Her reinforcement is so good she can do it to other people to the level of where they can clash against Noble Phantasms with their fists.

She, you'll note, does not have such stats. Reinforcement doesn't count as anything but thaumaturgy. Rin's agility is also not up to par without magic, and the same could be said for her endurance. Luck... well, she might have some good stats there, who knows.

Also, stats can be improved by a contract with the world. If that is what you want anyway. So it would be doable to have Rin manage as a Saber.

Yes, but saying it like seems like you can have your stats upped like it was nothing. There are limits, and the Saber class is such that you need so well rounded stats that literally only the best apply. Rin is good, yes, but good enough to go head-to-head with Arthuria and Gilgamesh in term of stats? No, I don't agree, even if she had a contract with the world. It's arguable that Emiya had better stats in terms of physical condition to her, and his stats still suck compared to most Eirei.




And on a side note, I don't really think Zelretch would count much as a 'sword' sword. It's main use is to gather energy from parallel dimensions, which Rin used to use it like a mini-Excaliblast. I honestly don't really think it's the type of thing that would be a good idea to use as an actual blade.

'though that's simply speculation.

 

[Muramasa]

From what I've seen, Grail rules are hardly concrete.

Assassins could be summoned from the first war onward even if they technically aren't heroic spirits.

Caster could summon a fictional warrior and still have it be accepted as an Assassin.

Einzberns completely blow the rules out of the water by summoning 'Avenger' in the third war.

Put this way, statistics don't really sound like requirements but more like tendencies, and generalizations.

 

[Fatuous One]

From what I've seen, Grail rules are hardly concrete.?

Assassins could be summoned from the first war onward even if they technically aren't heroic spirits.

Caster could summon a fictional warrior and still have it be accepted as an Assassin.

Einzberns completely blow the rules out of the water by summoning 'Avenger' in the third war.

Put this way, statistics don't really sound like requirements but more like tendencies, and generalizations.

...what?

The Hashshashin ARE Eirei. You don't have to be a good person to be a heroic spirit. It could be said that they're an exception to the 'not evil' bit that was busted in the third war, but I suppose it's by this same exception that Angra Mainyu was able to be summoned in the first place (i.e., only one of the eighteen Hassan-i Sabbah can be summoned as an Assassin, only Angra Mainyu can be summoned as an Avenger).

The person Caster summoned wasn't fictional. He was a nameless spirit that took on the fictional hero's name for a fame boost (and strangely enough, his technique "Tsubame Gaeshi" is actually something that he learned himself). That a Servant summoned a Servant seems to have fucked things up a bit there, anyway.

The Servant system was actually something they implemented after the first war (which was a disaster, IIRC). Of course one of the original families that created the system could play hooky with the rules. And on a side note? Creating new classes isn't something that's out of bounds. The seven classes are simply the 'conventional' classes. What the Einzberns did that was fucking things up was attempting to summon what should have been a god (rather, Satan, but that's splitting hairs), and the only reason it worked is because what they were summoning was actually a heroic spirit.

And yes, stats are a requirement. You're not going to find Medea summoned as a Saber, or Arturia as an Assassin. The rules are there to fit the Eirei into categories, and certain categories require various things. The actual rules seem to be somewhat flexible in terms of how much of a stat is a requirement for each class, but if your any of STR/END/AGI are something like D or E, then you'll not be a Saber. If your MGI is less than B, or you have no actual magical abilities, finding yourself as a Caster is laughable. And so on and so forth. They're not something that is followed completely to the letter, as many exceptions have been shown, but they're still requirements.



And yes, I consider Rin as a Saber as about as likely as I do EMIYA being a Saber. In other words, no way. In the end, they're both completely human, which is a factor in their physical stats.

 

[toraneko]

From what I've seen, Grail rules are hardly concrete.

Assassins could be summoned from the first war onward even if they technically aren't heroic spirits.

Technically, they have no name and no "record" of their identity. In a sense, the Hassan aren't even Eirei - more like wraiths that fit within a single classification, and are only distinguished by their differing special abilities.

This is probably why Caster was able to h4x and summon Sasaki Kojiro as Assassin - because he technically never existed, either, and was just a representative of many strong yet forgotten Japanese swordsmen.

Einzberns completely blow the rules out of the water by summoning 'Avenger' in the third war.

They helped create the Grail system in the first place. Cracking in Avenger was never something the system was meant for, and look at the disastrous side effects.

 

[Shiakou]

In other words Muramasa, the rules are breakable, but the the consequences make the risk of breaking them questionable - and sometimes suicidal. And even then, it'll take hax levels of skill and magic to break them.

 

[ttestagr]

Wrong. The Hashshashin order are regular eirei. They have a true legend, based on their own merits. They may have taken the same name for themselves, but they have their own legends.


Kojiro is an unknown swordsman who is using another's legend. It's why he doesn't have a Noble Phantasm. True Assassin does have one.


Also, they weren't evil spirits like Medusa or Medea. They were heroes to their own religion. Evil spirits don't have that much, even though they may have actually been better people than heroic ones.

 

[Prince Charon]

Since Rin is clearly not going to be an Assassin, do we really need to discuss them, here? Most likely, she's going to be a Caster, so someone else is going to get a Saber, Arturia or not.

How would she treat her Master? How would she treat her counterpart?

 

[SMWhat]

Wouldn't it be a much more interesting fic if Servant!Rin was as amnesiac as Archer?

Just my two cents in.

 

[Shiakou]

Let's see. Here's how I would like to see it. . .

Master: Emiya Shirou
Servant: Caster Kaleido Ruby Tosaka Rin
>Servant: Archerko?! Illyasviel von Einzbern?!

Master: Tohsaka Rin
Servant: Archer Emiya Shirou

Master: Illyasviel von Einzbern
Servant: Berserker Hercules

Master: Matou Sakura
Servant: Rider Medusa

Master: Issei Ryuudou
Servant: Saber Arturia

Master: Matou Shinji
Servant: Assassin (True) Hassan

Master: Bazette Fraga McRemitz
Servant: Lancer Chu Chulainne

How's that?

 

[shout27]

Let's see. Here's how I would like to see it. . .

Master: Emiya Shirou
Servant: Caster Kaleido Ruby Tosaka Rin

Master: Tohsaka Rin
Servant: Caster Medea

Master: Illyasviel von Einzbern
Servant: Archerko?! Illyasviel von Einzbern?!

Master: Matou Sakura
Servant: Rider Medusa

Master: Issei Ryuudou
Servant: Female! Gilgamesh

Master: Matou Shinji
Servant: Archer Emiya Shirou

Master: Bazette Fraga McRemitz
Servant: Saber Arturia

How's that?

Fixed, Shirou must get a harem.

 

[Prince Charon]

Let's see. Here's how I would like to see it. . .

Master: Emiya Shirou
Servant: Caster Kaleido Ruby Tosaka Rin
>Servant: Archerko?! Illyasviel von Einzbern?!

Hmm, maybe the Servant Caster!Rin summons is Saber Arturia.

@shout27: I'm not sure that two different Masters could have Caster-class Servants in the same War. Other than that, interesting.

@SMWhat: If the author did that, she'd be much less likely to decide to eliminate Shinji and Zoken early on, both of whom richly deserve it.

 

[Ray]

Harem > logic.

Contest this not, for this is teh internets.

Master: Matou Shinji
Servant: Archer Emiya Shirou

Shinji'd be dead the moment he issued his first order, and Archer would end up fading away.

 

[shout27]

Harem > logic.

Contest this not, for this is teh internets.

Master: Matou Shinji
Servant: Archer Emiya Shirou

Shinji'd be dead the moment he issued his first order, and Archer would end up fading away.

*raises eyebrow*
Why do you think I paired them up?

 

[Ray]

I can see where you're coming from, but there's no point, just waste of potential. If Shinji's going to be killed and Archer's going to fade away, you may as well take them out of the picture altogether, making Ayako a master and giving her a female Servant. That's two more harem members right there.

Clearly, your pervert-fu is not strong. -_-

 

[shout27]

then Berserker! Future! Taiga Sensei?

 

[shout27]

I can see where you're coming from, but there's no point, just waste of potential. If Shinji's going to be killed and Archer's going to fade away, you may as well take them out of the picture altogether, making Ayako a master and giving her a female Servant. That's two more harem members right there.

Clearly, your pervert-fu is not strong. -_-

Pervert-Fu? Yeah, I don't quite think like a 'True Fanboy' though I doubt GH would say that's a bad thing. . .
Revised:

Master: Emiya Shirou (pairing: Shirou/Medea/Medusa [+Saber/Rin/Rin occasionally])
Servant: Caster Kaleido Ruby Tosaka Rin

Master: Tohsaka Rin (Saber/Rin/Rin [+Shirou/Medea/Medusa occasionally])
Servant: Caster Medea

Master: Illyasviel von Einzbern
Servant: Berserker! Archerko?! Illyasviel von Einzbern?!

Master: Matou Sakura
Servant: Rider Medusa

Master: Issei Ryuudou - eliminated by Gilgamesh because he didn't kowtow to her. Proceeds to make a contract with Medea.
Servant: Lancer! Female! Gilgamesh (spends the rest of her life in a lesbian relationship with Bazette+Sakura+Ayako+Taiga Sensei)

Master: Matou Shinji - eliminated by Archer who proceeds to make a contract with Archerko
Servant: Archer Emiya Shirou (stuck in a big brother role for the rest of his life)

Master: Bazette Fraga McRemitz
Servant: Saber Arturia

 

[trevelyan1983]

I recall reading that the Archer class has the ability to subsist on mana for longer than any other class. EMIYA can own Shinji in the face and continue to be a badass bastard for the next couple of days, if the author wants to have the GAR cake and eat it.

 

[SMWhat]

@Prince Charon: Whether a character "deserves" something or not is irrelevant. Whether it will make a good story is the main thing, isn't it?

 

[Prince Charon]

@Prince Charon: Whether a character "deserves" something or not is irrelevant. Whether it will make a good story is the main thing, isn't it?

I'm actually rather curious to see how the story would go, if they were both killed early on, especially if they were killed in a way that would attract the notice of the police.

I'm also curious to see how Shirou, Rin, and Sakura would react, if they found out who killed them, and why.

 

[ttestagr]

Funny how you have Shinji and Sakura as Masters. Which isn't possible. Use someone else. Not only will it actually work, but it would be better not to have to deal with Shinji.