Square-Enix

[Ordo]

First, I'm talking about how practically every fps is almost the same these days. There's very little practical difference between modern warfare and ghost recon or battlefield, aside from minor variations between them. This is how i feel gamers wanted FF13 to be, the most final fantasy final fantasy that there was.

I think people just wanted FF 13 to be good, and by your own admission itÆs substandard in a number of areas where its predecessors and competition excelled.

People will pay for well done, innovative games; otherwise æPortalÆ wouldnÆt have been a massive hit. FF 13 is not particularly innovative, itÆs just padded all to heck, and horribly linear, and they justify this by saying æWe had a story to tellÆ one that wasnÆt that great or well told.

FF13 could have used more exploration. The battle system wasn't SO DEEP. The characters weren't SO GREAT. But that's par the course for final fantasy, aside from 12 which was pretty much GOTYAY. So if I am dissapoint about anything, it's that they didn't make another 12.

ThatÆs fine if you really liked it but I see no reason to just say æwell thatÆs Final FantasyÆ when IÆve seen this series produce better games than FF 13.

But I'm fine with that. This plays like a faster paced 7 or 10. Despite not being able to go back to the environments i did before, they look beautiful and memorable enough. I didn't terribly care that they were long hallways. I enjoyed most of the voice acting, the music was great, the graphics were amazing, the characters could have used some work but hey there was good ol' Sazh pretty much making up for everyone.

The battle system, while not DEEP, was interesting, and it's cinematic style wouldn't work if you had to control all 3 characters anyway. X2 was somewhat better but wasn't nearly as cinematic. But as a tradeoff, it only had 3 characters and a REALLY worse storyline.

If you are really happy with an average game, then by all means enjoy. Some of us expect a little more from Square-Enix and will make our displeasure known in the hopes that these deficiencies will be improved in future titles.

As for getting better for your money... What else was out when FF13 came out? Aside from valkyria chronicles; a game, by the way, is by design almost more linear; and maybe white knight chronicles, grindfest and wallet drainer(WHY DID I BUY THAT FOUNTAN FOR 4 USD); the best ps3 RPG at the moment, Nier, didn't come out until a month later.

Ummmà.you couldÆve held onto your money and put it to a better game. YouÆre not wearing a æBattle Royale collarÆ that will explode if you donÆt buy a new game every month. I have no plans to buy another game until Deus Ex: HR comes out followed by Skyrim. If they impress me via reviews, I might purchase ID softwareÆs æRageÆ and æFF 13-2Æ otherwise after Skyrim IÆm unlikely to purchase anything until Mass Effect 3 is released.

I could just be bad at getting my thoughts across, but my main problem is that complaining about why this isn't like that is going to happen when someone tries to change the status quo and bring a different experience.

If Square-Enix had succeeded in changing the status quo and making a brilliant game people wouldnÆt complaining as much about FF 13

 

[Souffle]

Ummmà.you couldÆve held onto your money and put it to a better game. YouÆre not wearing a æBattle Royale collarÆ that will explode if you donÆt buy a new game every month. I have no plans to buy another game until Deus Ex: HR comes out followed by Skyrim. If they impress me via reviews, I might purchase ID softwareÆs æRageÆ and æFF 13-2Æ otherwise after Skyrim IÆm unlikely to purchase anything until Mass Effect 3 is released.

Can you name a good ps3 rpg that came out within a 4 month period of FF13? Aside from the ones I mentioned? No, I don't have to buy a new game every month, but god forbid if i walk into a store and can't find any RPGs that 1: I like and 2: I don't own. It practically doesn't happen anymore, as there's only one ps3 rpg that I like the look of and don't own. (Resonance of Fate) Generation of NO GAMES indeed.

Because everyone knew how 'horrible' FF13 was when it first came out.

At the moment all I'm looking forward to is FF13-2, Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma, which already dropped off the hype wheel because no multiplayer. Aside from that is White Knight Chronicles (Why the knights cant be black?) whic is released in europe and... on a 4 month or so delay for release in the US?

As for games that aren't RPGs, I just got Bayonetta, plan on grabbing castlevania, and the fact that I can't think up another game at the moment that I want, without looking it up, kind of worries me.

 

[Ordo]

Ummmà.you couldÆve held onto your money and put it to a better game. YouÆre not wearing a æBattle Royale collarÆ that will explode if you donÆt buy a new game every month. I have no plans to buy another game until Deus Ex: HR comes out followed by Skyrim. If they impress me via reviews, I might purchase ID softwareÆs æRageÆ and æFF 13-2Æ otherwise after Skyrim IÆm unlikely to purchase anything until Mass Effect 3 is released.

Can you name a good ps3 rpg that came out within a 4 month period of FF13? Aside from the ones I mentioned? No, I don't have to buy a new game every month, but god forbid if i walk into a store and can't find any RPGs that 1: I like and 2: I don't own. It practically doesn't happen anymore, as there's only one ps3 rpg that I like the look of and don't own. (Resonance of Fate) Generation of NO GAMES indeed.

Because everyone knew how 'horrible' FF13 was when it first came out.

As I said if you liked it fine, but the statement I was responding to suggested that you bought the game because nothing else was out. As for knowing how good it was before purchase, I recall rumblings from Japanese websites (since the game was out over there in 2009) that the game was overly linear and had other problems. I recall wiping the game from my personal 'Buy Now' list on that alone and waited for the reviews, which further convinced me to save my money for more rewarding games.

 

[Souffle]

I'm asking you what games did you buy in that period that were RPGs

And seriously overly linear isn't that bad a point, there's worse things to complain about the game than that. It's a legit complaint, but how many games this generation have been 'non linear' and also 'fantastic' and 'rpg'? To each their own then

 

[atlas_hugged]

I'm asking you what games did you buy in that period that were RPGs

And seriously overly linear isn't that bad a point, there's worse things to complain about the game than that. It's a legit complaint, but how many games this generation have been 'non linear' and also 'fantastic' and 'rpg'? To each their own then

Does it matter what other games he bought then? If the only reason to buy a game is a lack of competition from other games, that doesn't speak to the developer's talents, aside from perhaps their ability to time releases.

 

[Souffle]

I'm asking you what games did you buy in that period that were RPGs

And seriously overly linear isn't that bad a point, there's worse things to complain about the game than that. It's a legit complaint, but how many games this generation have been 'non linear' and also 'fantastic' and 'rpg'? To each their own then

Does it matter what other games he bought then? If the only reason to buy a game is a lack of competition from other games, that doesn't speak to the developer's talents, aside from perhaps their ability to time releases.

Speaking strictly for RPGs and the ps3, there are barely enough good RPGs on it to count on one hand, with a few coming up soon that will be good.

If i was out shopping that day and wanted an RPG, i'd get ff13. Finish it in a week then wait for the drought to clear up and get Nier or something.

In no way am I saying that FF13 is good because there's no competition, I'm saying that if you want to compare it to other RPGs, compare it to those within a similar timeframe or generationally and stop nostalgiaing over the old FF games.

 

[Bill Felix]

In no way am I saying that FF13 is good because there's no competition, I'm saying that if you want to compare it to other RPGs, compare it to those within a similar timeframe or generationally and stop nostalgiaing over the old FF games.

No, that's just manipulating the scope by which we can call Final Fantasy XIII a bad game to a lesser degree.

When it comes to Final Fantasy, Square-Enix is lazy and complacent. They need to be punished by their fanbase for driving a once successful franchise into boring mediocrity in the same vicious way that every other company is for basically every game ever made.

Final Fantasy should be judged by older JRPGs. And not in a rosy-glasses nostalgic way, but as in: I played a JRPG on my PS2 with more involving characters and battle system, a better story, and was better than FFXIII in every way besides mind-blowing graphics.

Because I have played those. Square-Enix made some of them and then, I guess, forgot how to be successful and interesting.

 

[Crusader]

It's days like these that makes me want to stick to old Square games like Live-A-Live and Seiken Densetsu 3 as well as those old games of Enix. Guess it's time to dig up the ZNES emulator and all those ROMs. IMO Square-Enix should opt for more open-ended JRPGs like some of their old ones from the past where your given the freedom of choice to change the storyline or that the storyline is different depending on the character chosen.

 

[toraneko]

I'm still mind-boggled that the Seiken Densetsu/Mana series has been treated so badly by Square outside of Japan.

I mean, come on. SD3 is easily the best game in the whole franchise, and now, four whole console generations later, we still don't have an official port of it. Hell, they could have done it on the Nintendo DS with virtually no trouble at all - Chrono Trigger DS was a cake-walk on the development side, after all - and instantly raked in cash from a shit-ton of players who played the game emulated.

Meanwhile, they have put out three games in the series for handheld consoles, only one of which was somewhat well-received: Sword of Mana (a.k.a. Seiken Densetsu, a remake of the original). The two DS titles were fail. This was a double shame, as the second was a shitty RTS set as a prequel to Seiken Densetsu 3, and thus likely alienating some players from the setting.

Goddammit, Squenix.

 

[Ordo]

I'm asking you what games did you buy in that period that were RPGs

Here's something for you to consider, I haven't bought any of the Battlefield, Modern Warfare, or Call of Duty games at all. They don't interest me. I did buy Crysis & Crysis Warhead but those were recent purchases (within the last month). The very first open world, third person sandbox game that I bought was Jak 3, I didn't buy another until Bully, which was followed by Infamous.

I don't buy games just because there's an absence of releases in a given period. I buy them because I think they are worth my time and money.

And seriously overly linear isn't that bad a point, there's worse things to complain about the game than that.

On the other hand, few games were as linear as FF 13. They don't all have to be Skyrim, but having the ability to choose a different path is highly welcome, while the inability to deviate/explore is highly reviled.

 

[Souffle]

I'm asking you what games did you buy in that period that were RPGs

Here's something for you to consider, I haven't bought any of the Battlefield, Modern Warfare, or Call of Duty games at all. They don't interest me. I did buy Crysis & Crysis Warhead but those were recent purchases (within the last month). The very first open world, third person sandbox game that I bought was Jak 3, I didn't buy another until Bully, which was followed by Infamous.

I don't buy games just because there's an absence of releases in a given period. I buy them because I think they are worth my time and money.

And seriously overly linear isn't that bad a point, there's worse things to complain about the game than that.

On the other hand, few games were as linear as FF 13. They don't all have to be Skyrim, but having the ability to choose a different path is highly welcome, while the inability to deviate/explore is highly reviled.

I don't think you understood my point when i mentioned the FPS games.

Also, apparently not everyone buys games the way you or I do. I buy games I either 1: Want to play or 2: need to play in that genre. I needed an RPG, so i got ff13. I'll be needing another RPG soon, so i'll get resonance of fate soon. I wanted Bayonetta, so I got it recently.

I wanted Dook Nookem, but it's apparently bad so i pirated it first! Dodged a bullet by doing so, I'd at most pay 20bux for this game.

I don't buy games because there's an absense, I buy games because i want to play said game. I own a ps3, 360, and a Wii, and there's a reason i only own monster hunter for the wii while owning almost all RPGs for the ps3. I wanted to play them, so I go them.

Honestly, i don't recall hearing all the negative response like FF13 gets for Eternal Sonata, which is one of the worst RPGs i've played that has a budget more than 20bux.

 

[Ordo]

Honestly, i don't recall hearing all the negative response like FF13 gets for Eternal Sonata, which is one of the worst RPGs i've played that has a budget more than 20bux.

Eternal Sonata isn't part of a long running series that has numerous quality games in it's repertoire. It's the same reason people were upset with Metroid: Other M, they tried something different without respect to the past (or past characterization) and with a seeming disregard for what most of the fans liked about the previous games.

 

[Souffle]

I think i'm trying to say that people are mad at FF13 for being average when the entire series was average in the first place.

 

[Mick]

It's days like these that makes me want to stick to old Square games like Live-A-Live and Seiken Densetsu 3 as well as those old games of Enix. Guess it's time to dig up the ZNES emulator and all those ROMs. IMO Square-Enix should opt for more open-ended JRPGs like some of their old ones from the past where your given the freedom of choice to change the storyline or that the storyline is different depending on the character chosen.

Managed to get a hold of Brain Lord for the SNES again. Had some fun with that game back in the old days.

As for RPGS, it's too bad Sega Saturn was killed when it was.

 

[GenocideHeart]

As for RPGS, it's too bad Sega Saturn was killed when it was.

It's kind of ironic that the Saturn has the highest ratio of good RPGs to anything else among consoles even to this day. I can only recall two or three RPGs on Saturn that were average or below, the rest were above average to excellent.

Of course, the console was killed before it could be inundated with shovelware, so maybe that's why.

 

[toraneko]

I think i'm trying to say that people are mad at FF13 for being average when the entire series was average in the first place.

FF13 is only average if you think that the spectacular graphics balances out the godawfulness of everything else about it. By any normal assessment, it's far below average, putting it significantly below the bar even for the FF series overall.

 

[Souffle]

Yeah, I don't think it's 'godawful' in any way. Lacking and very average, a bit bad at parts, but never 'godawful'.

 

[Mick]

As for RPGS, it's too bad Sega Saturn was killed when it was.

It's kind of ironic that the Saturn has the highest ratio of good RPGs to anything else among consoles even to this day. I can only recall two or three RPGs on Saturn that were average or below, the rest were above average to excellent.

Of course, the console was killed before it could be inundated with shovelware, so maybe that's why.

I place the blame entirely on whoever did the early launch for the saturn and pissed off the retailers.

And that dickhead Bernie Stolar who should get a foot up his ass.

 

[Ordo]

All right, here's Square-Enix line-up into early 2012.

Deus Ex: HR
Dead Island
Final Fantasy 13-2
Tomb Raider
Hitman Absolution.

To be fair it's not a bad line-up, but it seems that Squar-Enixe is reliant on games like Deus Ex and Hitman.

 

[Shadowseraph]

Dues Ex being good would go a long way toward restoring some of confidence in the company, still not buying at release though, I'll give it a month or two and check out the non-professional reviews then.

 

[Ordo]

Dues Ex being good would go a long way toward restoring some of confidence in the company, still not buying at release though, I'll give it a month or two and check out the non-professional reviews then.

I'm not expecting DE: HR to be on the level of the first, but it does look like a lot of fun and more interesting progression system than what was available in Invisible war, so I'm willing to take a chance and grab the game first day.

I also love cybernetic protagonist, and the games art direction.

The other games I am less interested in, so far. Tomb Raider could be excellent, but I need to see more game play before I can make that decisions. I've seen some of Hitman's gameplay and it's reminding me of Splinter Cell Conviction which I did like, but dosen't feel right for a Hitman game.

However, putting all that aside, my real point is that only one of these games is from Square, the rest are eidos games they've taken under their wing. I'm curious what they are up to, are they taking a break to reassess their design process, perhaps get a fresh start after the less than stellar fan reception to FF 13?

 

[Crusader]

However, putting all that aside, my real point is that only one of these games is from Square, the rest are eidos games they've taken under their wing. I'm curious what they are up to, are they taking a break to reassess their design process, perhaps get a fresh start after the less than stellar fan reception to FF 13?

Lucky for us that they haven't tried something like this.

 

[Ordo]

Actually, that's the most badass I've ever seen Cloud. Switch out the gun for an Imperial Guard Hellgun, make him a sanctioned psyker working with the Cadian Storm Troopers and I think you'd have a fun game/story.

Sephiroth could even play the role of Daemonhost.

Edit:

His gear set up would make a lot of sense in current FF games. You have the rifle to handle distant/flying targets, and then the BFS, for anything that get's into melee range, or treats bullets like BBs.

 

[Bill Felix]

Actually, that's the most badass I've ever seen Cloud. Switch out the gun for an Imperial Guard Hellgun, make him a sanctioned psyker working with the Cadian Storm Troopers and I think you'd have a fun game/story.

Sephiroth could even play the role of Daemonhost.

Edit:

His gear set up would make a lot of sense in current FF games. You have the rifle to handle distant/flying targets, and then the BFS, for anything that get's into melee range, or treats bullets like BBs.

That reminds me of an old FF7 fanfic idea I had where Zack lives and meets up with Tifa and Barret in Midgar and brings Cloud with him. But since Zack didn't die, Cloud would still be wearing just a Shinra guard's uniform and carry a gun as his main weapon.

Off topic, sorry.

 

[Ordo]

Actually, that's the most badass I've ever seen Cloud. Switch out the gun for an Imperial Guard Hellgun, make him a sanctioned psyker working with the Cadian Storm Troopers and I think you'd have a fun game/story.

Sephiroth could even play the role of Daemonhost.

Edit:

His gear set up would make a lot of sense in current FF games. You have the rifle to handle distant/flying targets, and then the BFS, for anything that get's into melee range, or treats bullets like BBs.

That reminds me of an old FF7 fanfic idea I had where Zack lives and meets up with Tifa and Barret in Midgar and brings Cloud with him. But since Zack didn't die, Cloud would still be wearing just a Shinra guard's uniform and carry a gun as his main weapon.

Off topic, sorry.

A tad off topic but not too much. Lightening had a very good weapon for an FF game. It switched to a blade for Melee and converted to a gun for anything at range. In the various worlds of final fantasy this makes a fair amount of sense. If I'm trying to kill a flying guardian beast like Diablo, having access to ranged weapons might help me clip his wings so to speak. Once it's on the ground I can then hack it to pieces (or until it says uncle).