Superman Vs. Goku
- Thread starter lqader4529
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Ability to fly, to go fast enough to travel through time, and fly faster than the speed of light.
Enough strength to move planets and stars for shits and giggles.
X-Ray vision and Subatomic vision (he could see individual atoms)
He didn't need food, water, or air.
Super hearing.
Freeze breath.
Voice Projection of all things.
Super whatever-it-is-the-plot-needs-for-victory.
Enough strength to move planets and stars for shits and giggles.
X-Ray vision and Subatomic vision (he could see individual atoms)
He didn't need food, water, or air.
Super hearing.
Freeze breath.
Voice Projection of all things.
Super whatever-it-is-the-plot-needs-for-victory.
Still Goku.
I'd argue that there aren't really that many beings in the Marvel or DCverse that could take Goku once he really got going. He's literally the most broken Shonen hero of all time. Even DS hasn't gotten to Goku's level of H4X yet, and DS is broken.
Once you've gotten to the point where you can bitchslap the evil version of Kami (God) and LULZPWN a being that can literally grant it's own wishes (Evil Dragon), you're on top. Period.
I'd argue that there aren't really that many beings in the Marvel or DCverse that could take Goku once he really got going. He's literally the most broken Shonen hero of all time. Even DS hasn't gotten to Goku's level of H4X yet, and DS is broken.
Once you've gotten to the point where you can bitchslap the evil version of Kami (God) and LULZPWN a being that can literally grant it's own wishes (Evil Dragon), you're on top. Period.
Yes they are. They just don't use their powers very often, or without a really, really good reason to.
Name these "entire tiers".
And keep in mind that one, two, or even several individuals don't count. "Entire tiers" implies a very large number.
There are entire tiers of heroes and villains that would just laugh at Goku.
And keep in mind that one, two, or even several individuals don't count. "Entire tiers" implies a very large number.
The Kais are a pantheon. That tends to mean that the individual power of the member Gods is less than monotheisitic or small-group Gods. Compare the parlour tricks of the Greek or Norse Gods to the stuff that Judaism and Christianity attribute to God.
That said, the Kais, Dai Kais and even Kaoishin were all pretty pathetic. King Kai was weaker than Goku, after he'd finished training him. I'd be honestly surprised if Shin could keep up with Frieza, let alone Cell or a Super-Saiyan. The only people Shin would have stood a chance against are the humans, as far as I can tell. (Although he fancied his chances against the base-form Saiyans. More fool him.)
That said, the Kais, Dai Kais and even Kaoishin were all pretty pathetic. King Kai was weaker than Goku, after he'd finished training him. I'd be honestly surprised if Shin could keep up with Frieza, let alone Cell or a Super-Saiyan. The only people Shin would have stood a chance against are the humans, as far as I can tell. (Although he fancied his chances against the base-form Saiyans. More fool him.)
trevelyan1983 said:
The Kais are a pantheon. That tends to mean that the individual power of the member Gods is less than monotheisitic or small-group Gods. Compare the parlour tricks of the Greek or Norse Gods to the stuff that Judaism and Christianity attribute to God.
That said, the Kais, Dai Kais and even Kaoishin were all pretty pathetic. King Kai was weaker than Goku, after he'd finished training him. I'd be honestly surprised if Shin could keep up with Frieza, let alone Cell or a Super-Saiyan. The only people Shin would have stood a chance against are the humans, as far as I can tell. (Although he fancied his chances against the base-form Saiyans. More fool him.)
That said, the Kais, Dai Kais and even Kaoishin were all pretty pathetic. King Kai was weaker than Goku, after he'd finished training him. I'd be honestly surprised if Shin could keep up with Frieza, let alone Cell or a Super-Saiyan. The only people Shin would have stood a chance against are the humans, as far as I can tell. (Although he fancied his chances against the base-form Saiyans. More fool him.)
Perhaps from what we see, yes, but cosmologically speaking, each of the Kami's was powerful enough to govern and control the events of one fourth of the universe, the Dai Kami's were each as powerful as the four other Kami's put together, and Kaoishin was in turn stronger than essencially everyone else in DBZverse, with the one or two potential exceptions to that (about half of which aren't actually canon).
At the very least, that puts each of the compass aligned Kami's on a power level comparable to the most powerful forms of the most powerful DBZ characters at full power.
Or have you forgotten Rule Number 1, Trev?
Never, ever, ever, ever judge a book by it's cover when anime and manga are concerned. Especially if said book is a trainer of the Main Character who is ALSO a small, harmless-looking and eccentric old man with an odd sense of humor who lives in isolation miles and miles from anyone or anything.
Just because he never showed his true form or power and beat the holy fuck out of someone doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I would have thought that the very fact that he has the station he does would have proved it, to say nothing of the fact that he literally falls into almost every single trope category for having titanic hidden stores of badassery.
And if he has it, then so do the other three Kami. Which reinforces and substantiates Daikami's power, as each are as powerful as the four Kami combined. It does the same to Kaoishin, who is supposedly more powerful than all the other Kami combined.
At the very least, that puts each of the compass aligned Kami's on a power level comparable to the most powerful forms of the most powerful DBZ characters at full power.
Or have you forgotten Rule Number 1, Trev?
Never, ever, ever, ever judge a book by it's cover when anime and manga are concerned. Especially if said book is a trainer of the Main Character who is ALSO a small, harmless-looking and eccentric old man with an odd sense of humor who lives in isolation miles and miles from anyone or anything.
Just because he never showed his true form or power and beat the holy fuck out of someone doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I would have thought that the very fact that he has the station he does would have proved it, to say nothing of the fact that he literally falls into almost every single trope category for having titanic hidden stores of badassery.
And if he has it, then so do the other three Kami. Which reinforces and substantiates Daikami's power, as each are as powerful as the four Kami combined. It does the same to Kaoishin, who is supposedly more powerful than all the other Kami combined.
Lord Raine said:
Or have you forgotten Rule Number 1, Trev?
Never, ever, ever, ever judge a book by it's cover when anime and manga are concerned. Especially if said book is a trainer of the Main Character who is ALSO a small, harmless-looking and eccentric old man with an odd sense of humor who lives in isolation miles and miles from anyone or anything.
Never, ever, ever, ever judge a book by it's cover when anime and manga are concerned. Especially if said book is a trainer of the Main Character who is ALSO a small, harmless-looking and eccentric old man with an odd sense of humor who lives in isolation miles and miles from anyone or anything.
King Kai was being played for laughs. Even leaving aside some of the fillers, where he came off badly even in comparison to the humans, he was a weakling with a couple of powerful, useful techniques.
Rather than automatically give him a pass because he's a Kami I think it's a better idea to say that while the Gods can't match Super Saiyans in raw power, they have a far wider palette of skills and powers to draw on. Like, say, TK, Healing, telepathy, world creation and the like.
Merely being called Gods didn't help Demon King Piccolo or Kami much, if you recall. Power levels barely above Roshi, despite being Devil and God on Dragon Ball Earth.
trevelyan1983 said:
JiigarGhen said:
Well, if you count the Budokai games, Kaioshin can beat EVERYONE. :lol:
Upon which he declared that I only won because I used the fusion. At that point, I took off the fusion and proceeded to kick his ass...AGAIN....with just Mr. Satan. :lol:
Supes would get Goku to talk, Goku, being a naturally good-natured idiot, would stop, they'd discover they were on the same side, then go off and get roaring drunk on Kryptonian/Saiyan booze while discussing the woes of living in a world of cardboard and how much it sucked trying to get it on with human wives.
Bjorn said:
Supes would get Goku to talk, Goku, being a naturally good-natured idiot, would stop, they'd discover they were on the same side, then go off and get roaring drunk on Kryptonian/Saiyan booze while discussing the woes of living in a world of cardboard and how much it sucked trying to get it on with human wives.
Though obviously Saiyans don't have too much of a problem with that, given all the half-Saiyan brats running around in DBZ.
Bjorn said:
Supes would get Goku to talk, Goku, being a naturally good-natured idiot, would stop, they'd discover they were on the same side, then go off and get roaring drunk on Kryptonian/Saiyan booze while discussing the woes of living in a world of cardboard and how much it sucked trying to get it on with human wives.
Boy Scout Heros: Don't fuck with them. Ever.
Though obviously Saiyans don't have too much of a problem with that, given all the half-Saiyan brats running around in DBZ.
If she was actually actively training, Chichi would be badass. It's Bulma who's the odd one out, because she's a normal human.
Maybe Vegita is secretly sub to her dom? That could explain it.
For the record, Dragonball gods are inherently flawed because they have LIMITATIONS.
Or have you all forgotten that the original Shenron (dragon god, remember?) outright stated he couldn't even remove the explosive from C18's body? And C18 was a mere cyborg, powerful all you want, but still largely man-made.
If a cyborg is stated by a so-called 'god' to be more powerful than he is, then that 'god' is pretty damn wimpy. And I'm not even going to address how gods in DBZ are more akin to Marvel 'gods', as in extradimensional beings of great power, but still ultimately mortal.
Now, Superman kicks extradimensional beings of great power's asses on a regular basis. Why should a DBZ god be any better than one of those? Hell, I'd argue Darkseid is more powerful than any of the Kais, given how he was stated to be a blight upon the entire multiverse by a few sources in DC...
That taken into account, Superman wins simply because he can just grab Goku and drag him in outer space. The ONLY confirmed Saiyan who can survive in outer space was Broly, and he's from a filler movie. DBGT is worthless, as like the Broly movie, it wasn't made by Toriyama, and Toriyama has been put on record as saying he didn't like it to boot.
The fact Supes can go in outer space and not die, while Goku can and will die gives him a pretty damn huge advantage. And Supes survived a direct hit from Darkseid's Omega Beam, which up until that point had outright obliterated anyone it struck regardless of power, so he's pretty damn tough when it comes to taking beams o'doom, which reduces the Kamehameha's usefulness...
Or have you all forgotten that the original Shenron (dragon god, remember?) outright stated he couldn't even remove the explosive from C18's body? And C18 was a mere cyborg, powerful all you want, but still largely man-made.
If a cyborg is stated by a so-called 'god' to be more powerful than he is, then that 'god' is pretty damn wimpy. And I'm not even going to address how gods in DBZ are more akin to Marvel 'gods', as in extradimensional beings of great power, but still ultimately mortal.
Now, Superman kicks extradimensional beings of great power's asses on a regular basis. Why should a DBZ god be any better than one of those? Hell, I'd argue Darkseid is more powerful than any of the Kais, given how he was stated to be a blight upon the entire multiverse by a few sources in DC...
That taken into account, Superman wins simply because he can just grab Goku and drag him in outer space. The ONLY confirmed Saiyan who can survive in outer space was Broly, and he's from a filler movie. DBGT is worthless, as like the Broly movie, it wasn't made by Toriyama, and Toriyama has been put on record as saying he didn't like it to boot.
The fact Supes can go in outer space and not die, while Goku can and will die gives him a pretty damn huge advantage. And Supes survived a direct hit from Darkseid's Omega Beam, which up until that point had outright obliterated anyone it struck regardless of power, so he's pretty damn tough when it comes to taking beams o'doom, which reduces the Kamehameha's usefulness...
Remember, Bulma seems to be pretty handy when it comes to inventing technology. Maybe she developed some...specialized...equipment, to allow her to survive sex with a Saiyan. Whether it'd be in the nature of restraints, power inhibitors, or something that temporarily would increase her own durability (presumably in some way not practical for battle)...I can only guess.
The Androids were not largely man-made. If they were, they couldn't use ki. They likely aren't even half-and-half. More like genetically engineered and modified humans with cybernetic implants.
Ki users + the ability to have children = them not being "mostly" mechanical.
Vaginal reinforcement.
Isn't technology grand?
Ki users + the ability to have children = them not being "mostly" mechanical.
Remember, Bulma seems to be pretty handy when it comes to inventing technology. Maybe she developed some...specialized...equipment, to allow her to survive sex with a Saiyan. Whether it'd be in the nature of restraints, power inhibitors, or something that temporarily would increase her own durability (presumably in some way not practical for battle)...I can only guess.
Isn't technology grand?