Superman Vs. Goku
- Thread starter lqader4529
- Start date
The Androids were not largely man-made. If they were, they couldn't use ki. They likely aren't even half-and-half. More like genetically engineered and modified humans with cybernetic implants.
Ki users + the ability to have children = them not being "mostly" mechanical.
Ki users + the ability to have children = them not being "mostly" mechanical.
Whatever Dr. Gero did to them, it was at the bare minimum extensive rebuilding, since they were loaded with enough explosives to destroy their own bodies. WHY he left C18's reproductive tract intact is anyone's guess, but even Krilin admitted he was surprised to find that out.
Sure, they have human parts, but it seems like they were either biotech or mostly mechanical inside with fleshy outside. Even C16 was bleeding when he got hit hard, and C16 outright admitted he was entirely mechanical.
Goku.
Something we should remember is fighting skills. Goku knows a dozen different martials (or something like that) including Turtle style and North Kai's style which are both designed to make use of superhuman abilities.
He has an instantaneous transportation technique which is faster than light.
His energy manipulation/sensing is off the charts. He has the ability to gather strength/power from all around him.
First turning Super Saiyan he was submersed in lava which is around 1000 degrees Celsius.
Durability is off the charts. Can literally take plant destroying blasts and shrug them off like nothing. Could take missile blasts as a child at Super Saiyan Nukes would be negligible.
He is also a fighting prodigy able to adapt to a opponent nearly instantly.
Telepathy.
After Image which would be very useful against someone like Superman who can't sense energy.
Superman
Speed almost light speed.
Ice breath and heat vision. Enhanced vision and hearing. Usperhuman intelligence levels.
If someone could give an exact level of strength for Goku or Superman that would be great.
Something we should remember is fighting skills. Goku knows a dozen different martials (or something like that) including Turtle style and North Kai's style which are both designed to make use of superhuman abilities.
He has an instantaneous transportation technique which is faster than light.
His energy manipulation/sensing is off the charts. He has the ability to gather strength/power from all around him.
First turning Super Saiyan he was submersed in lava which is around 1000 degrees Celsius.
Durability is off the charts. Can literally take plant destroying blasts and shrug them off like nothing. Could take missile blasts as a child at Super Saiyan Nukes would be negligible.
He is also a fighting prodigy able to adapt to a opponent nearly instantly.
Telepathy.
After Image which would be very useful against someone like Superman who can't sense energy.
Superman
Speed almost light speed.
Ice breath and heat vision. Enhanced vision and hearing. Usperhuman intelligence levels.
If someone could give an exact level of strength for Goku or Superman that would be great.
At his strongest, Superman's heat vision could REIGNITE DEAD STARS. He could move planets by blowing air from his mouth or pushing them, shrug off blasts of energy powerful enough to outright atomize a red giant, see through the entire energy spectrum (which means he'd be able to perceive the real Goku from an afterimage) and react at speeds that made everything else stand still.
That's all I'll say. At his absolute best, Superman was so broken he'd have fit right in DBZ's top tier and been good enough to steal Goku's show...
That's all I'll say. At his absolute best, Superman was so broken he'd have fit right in DBZ's top tier and been good enough to steal Goku's show...
Dunno about Goku, but according to DC Database Project, the current Superman (non-Silver Age Superman) is...
...and has been noted, Silver Age Superman was even more overpowered.
Powers
Kryptonian Physiology: Superman's cellular structure is more dense, resilient and biologically more effective than human tissue. Under natural Kryptonian conditions, does not seem to possess superhuman strength levels despite his enhanced cellular ability without constant exposure to yellow solar energy. Without such charging, his strength seems on par for a human of his height and weight who engages in regular physical activity. As an alien he possess several organs whose functions are not yet disclosed or understood but are believed to be part of and perhaps even the source of his biomatrix force field and reclamation aura. Superman's body also stores energy actively within his bio-cellular matrix as an energy pattern that is linked to his body's electromagnetic field. This energy powers most of Superman's electromagnetic capabilities such as flight and heat vision. It also supplements his physical strength by a factor of 12,000 times or so.
á á á á * Solar Energy Absorption: Technically, this is the main source of Superman's powers. Because Superman's powers are greatly due to exposure to Earth's yellow sun, his powers have been affected by extreme absorptions of solar power, whether voluntary or involuntary. However, Superman has used this to his advantage in battle in many instances, and to his detriment at certain times.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Strength: While the exact magnitude of Superman's strength is unknown, it is generally accepted that Superman is sufficiently strong to lift 100,000 tons or more. The exact specfic range is unknown as Superman's strength, like his other powers, has fluctuated over time. Superman's strength is more an act of conscious will on energy fields than actual physical strength. It is through his act of conscious will manipulation that allows Superman to engage in physical feats that are beyond merely applying applicable force such as moving a mountain without said rock crumbling under its own mass while Superman moves it. At his theoretical maximum, fully immersed and over charged by yellow solar radiation, the New Earth Superman has been noted to be able to concentrate his will into physical force enough to allow him to move Earth-moon sized planetary bodies out of their orbit where after emerging from the Sun over-energized, Superman physically pushed "WarWorld" (The Dwarf Planet Pluto) across the solar system and into a boom tube. However being at that level has been directly shown to be adverse to him, and his body is unable to contain that level of energy directly for any true length of time without harmful effects. And again, this level of control and power access is not normal for him to achieve and even in this particular instance. Superman's normal strength levels are obviously in the multi-megaton range. Currently he only maintains enough strength to do battle without killing, move mountains, but not enough to move planet sized objects on his own.
á á á á á á * Invulnerability: Superman's body is nigh-invulnerable to extreme energy forces (He has survived low yield nuclear explosions where he was in direct contact with a forty megaton detonation bomb but was knocked unconscious as a result). This ability's levels have changed over time, at times allowing him to fly into a sun and emerge unharmed, as evident most recently through Krypton's red sun and survive and directly entering directly into the Sun. Superman has even been shown withstanding Darkseid's Omega Effect while they were fighting near the surface of a yellow sun, a feat that was previously considered impossible. In addition, his immune system protects him from toxins and diseases. The most common explanations for his invulnerability are Superman having a super-dense molecular structure and/or a supercharged bioelectric "aura" which acts as an invisible "force field" around his body to within a few millimeters from his skin, and presumably within his body as well. The proximity of this field to his skin means that loose clothes, for example, may be burned off of him, while cloth that is close to his body is protected by the "aura;" This phenomenon is sometimes cited as Superman's reason for wearing a skin-tight bodysuit. It is also the understanding that he may unconsciously extend part of this field into objects in contact with him which is assumed for him being able to carry and move objects that would collaspe under their own mass, overcoming gravity or inertia tearing them apart around his human-sized hands.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Stamina: Superman has the ability to maintain continuous strenuous physical action for an undefined period. Theoretically, most incarnations of the character has practically unlimited stamina as his enhanced nourishment is produced from the solar energy his cells process; however his base physical structure still does need to process food stuffs as well as has the psychological need to eat and drink just as Earth humans do, despite the fact that his superhuman powers receives the majority of that energy from a yellow sun. He does require sleep on occasion so he can dream. He can also hold his breath for an undefined duration.
á á á á á á * Flight: Superman is presumably able to manipulate psionically, graviton particles, in an unknown and apparently unconscious manner, to defy the forces of gravity. Under one Earth gravity, Superman is capable of speeds of multi Mach speeds in Earth's atmosphere. His control of his flight is very precise and he can perform aerobatic feats such as hovering, flying backwards and even lifting great weights while flying. Superman has repeatedly demonstrated he has the ability to achieve orbital speeds, fly in outer space and land safely down to a planet's surface from outer space.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Speed: Superman is capable of enhanced reflex action and the ability to move at incredible speeds by sheer force of will. He is not as fast as the Flash, but he can achieve faster than light speed under his own power in space. Superman can match most other speedsters in their ability to perform super-fast movements, reactions, and processes. He can use this power to disarm opponents who do not have heightened reflexes, catch bullets or shrapnel or cross vast distances in seconds.
á á á á á á * Super-Breath: The ability to create hurricane force winds by blowing, and to chill his breath in order to freeze a target (this latter ability has also been called "freeze breath" and "arctic breath"). Superman can also breathe in large amounts of air, an ability used when dealing with and disposing things like clouds of poison gas.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Hearing: The ability to hear any sound at any volume or pitch. The only Earth creature who can detect sounds at the frequency he can is a blue whale (0.01-200,000 Hz). He has shown enough control to block out ambient sounds to focus on a specific source/frequency. He can identify a person by their heartbeat, or pick out a single voice in an entire city.
á á á á á á * Heat Vision: The ability to fire beams of intense heat at a target by looking at it with the conscious act of activating this power. Visually, the power is typically depicted as two beams of red light firing from his eyes. These beams can be made invisible, allowing Superman to work undetected. The maximum temperature of his heat vision is said to be around that of a nuclear detonation. The area of effect can be consciously determined by Superman, down to the microscopic level. Recent stories imply the precision is so exact it can bypass a target's outer shell (not causing damage to a person's skull for surgical purposes) or even defenses (such as invulnerability or intangibility).
á á á á á á * Superman Vision: Under only the rays of a Blue sun, Superman found out that he develops a new vision power that allows non-Kryptonians Superman-like powers. The lasting effects seem to only work under a blue sun, once Superman and that person leaves the planet of the sun, the person will lose his powers.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Vision: He also possess a superior sensory arrangement of microscopic, telescopic, infrared and ultraviolet visual capabilities. He is able to see the entire spectrum. Microscopic, chemical, x-ray, auditory, ultrasonic, magnetic, photonic, etc. Star Laboratories has not been able to complete define how Superman has been able to utilize his powerful senses, part of the mechanism is physical, part of it is believed to be psionic in nature. Abilities include:
á á á á á á á á * Electro-Magnetic Spectrum Vision: Can see well into most of the EM Spectrum. He can see and identify radio/television and any and all broadcast/transmitted frequencies, allowing him to avoid detection through radar or satellite monitoring methods. Superman can see the paranormal aura that every living thing generates. This ability is apparently one of the main reasons that Superman is a vegetarian, as he can see the passing of the "soul" at death.
á á á á á á á á * Telescopic Vision: The ability to "zoom in" his distance to see something at a great distance, without violating the laws of physics. The total telescopic ability is unclassified, but presumed limited to some extent.
á á á á á á á á * X-Ray Vision: The ability to see through anything except lead. He can see things behind a wall as if the wall were not there, or can "peel back" layer after layer of matter in his mind. Opponents sometimes used lead-lined constructs in an attempt to hide things from Superman. Kal-El is able to focus his vision past layers of matter, literally seeing "through" them -- possibly perceiving x-rays, cosmic rays or other forms of energy invisible to normal human vision which pass through Earth's atmosphere (and solid objects) after emission from stars. Since it is passive, this ability would not generate harmful radiation in the same manner as a focused projection of hard X-rays.
á á á á á á á á * Microscopic Vision: The ability to see extremely small objects and images down to the atomic level (normal optical microscopes can only see objects down to the size of chromosomes).
á á á á á á á á * Infrared Vision: Allows him to see better in total darkness. He can detect the heat signatures of living beings or devices in operation.
á á á á á á á á * Ultraviolet
á á á á á á á á * Chemical
á á á á á á á á * Ultrasonic
á á á á á á á á * Magnetic
á á á á á á á á * Auditory
á á á á á á á á * Photonic
Abilities
Expert Combatant: Superman has been trained in the art of boxing by Wildcat, wrestling by Wonder Woman, and underwater/space combat by Mongul.
Genius-Level Intellect: Superman has shown enhanced intelligence, meorization and computational abilities; his mind works sharply and with extreme speed. His analytical powers are impressive ù he is able to use his senses to read information directly from machines (and, with careful usage of his heat vision, he can even reprogram certain machines). He also posseses a photographic memory which means he has total recall.
Strength level
Unknown.
Weaknesses
á á * Magic: Superman is also vulnerable to magical effects. Although he is no more detrimentally affected by such effects than a normal human would be, this is a significantly exploitable weakness in comparison to his incredible physical resilience.
á á * Kryptonite: Since the destruction of Krypton, its remains (rendered radioactive by the explosion) have been spreading throughout the universe as kryptonite, a crystalline substance whose specific radiation is lethal to Kryptonians native to this reality. There is currently only one natural type of Kyrptonite in the New Earth dimension: Green (Red Kryptonite of the New Earth dimension is artifically created through radioactive manipulation of Green) and both types' effect are directly poisonous to Kryptonians native to the Kryptonite source in a very fast rate. Both forms of Kryptonite are deadly to all living organisms but as a reduced rate compared to Kryptonians same to that native dimension. External dimensional Kryptonite has been repeatedly shown to be ineffective against Kryptonians who do not originate from that same source dimension as Kal-El was against the Kryptonite of the Superboy of the "Pocket Universe".
á á * Lead: Superman cannot see through lead with his vision powers.
á á * Solar Energy: Superman will eventually weaken without replenishing his energy reserves with normal (yellow) sun radiation. He is not replenished by red sunlight, and its radiation can be used to weaken him.
á á * Psionics: Depending upon the writer, Superman is either highly resistent to psionic affects (typically attributed to either his advanced Kryptonian mind or alien brain structure) or he can be affected as easily as a normal human, albeit one with a high level of will power.
Kryptonian Physiology: Superman's cellular structure is more dense, resilient and biologically more effective than human tissue. Under natural Kryptonian conditions, does not seem to possess superhuman strength levels despite his enhanced cellular ability without constant exposure to yellow solar energy. Without such charging, his strength seems on par for a human of his height and weight who engages in regular physical activity. As an alien he possess several organs whose functions are not yet disclosed or understood but are believed to be part of and perhaps even the source of his biomatrix force field and reclamation aura. Superman's body also stores energy actively within his bio-cellular matrix as an energy pattern that is linked to his body's electromagnetic field. This energy powers most of Superman's electromagnetic capabilities such as flight and heat vision. It also supplements his physical strength by a factor of 12,000 times or so.
á á á á * Solar Energy Absorption: Technically, this is the main source of Superman's powers. Because Superman's powers are greatly due to exposure to Earth's yellow sun, his powers have been affected by extreme absorptions of solar power, whether voluntary or involuntary. However, Superman has used this to his advantage in battle in many instances, and to his detriment at certain times.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Strength: While the exact magnitude of Superman's strength is unknown, it is generally accepted that Superman is sufficiently strong to lift 100,000 tons or more. The exact specfic range is unknown as Superman's strength, like his other powers, has fluctuated over time. Superman's strength is more an act of conscious will on energy fields than actual physical strength. It is through his act of conscious will manipulation that allows Superman to engage in physical feats that are beyond merely applying applicable force such as moving a mountain without said rock crumbling under its own mass while Superman moves it. At his theoretical maximum, fully immersed and over charged by yellow solar radiation, the New Earth Superman has been noted to be able to concentrate his will into physical force enough to allow him to move Earth-moon sized planetary bodies out of their orbit where after emerging from the Sun over-energized, Superman physically pushed "WarWorld" (The Dwarf Planet Pluto) across the solar system and into a boom tube. However being at that level has been directly shown to be adverse to him, and his body is unable to contain that level of energy directly for any true length of time without harmful effects. And again, this level of control and power access is not normal for him to achieve and even in this particular instance. Superman's normal strength levels are obviously in the multi-megaton range. Currently he only maintains enough strength to do battle without killing, move mountains, but not enough to move planet sized objects on his own.
á á á á á á * Invulnerability: Superman's body is nigh-invulnerable to extreme energy forces (He has survived low yield nuclear explosions where he was in direct contact with a forty megaton detonation bomb but was knocked unconscious as a result). This ability's levels have changed over time, at times allowing him to fly into a sun and emerge unharmed, as evident most recently through Krypton's red sun and survive and directly entering directly into the Sun. Superman has even been shown withstanding Darkseid's Omega Effect while they were fighting near the surface of a yellow sun, a feat that was previously considered impossible. In addition, his immune system protects him from toxins and diseases. The most common explanations for his invulnerability are Superman having a super-dense molecular structure and/or a supercharged bioelectric "aura" which acts as an invisible "force field" around his body to within a few millimeters from his skin, and presumably within his body as well. The proximity of this field to his skin means that loose clothes, for example, may be burned off of him, while cloth that is close to his body is protected by the "aura;" This phenomenon is sometimes cited as Superman's reason for wearing a skin-tight bodysuit. It is also the understanding that he may unconsciously extend part of this field into objects in contact with him which is assumed for him being able to carry and move objects that would collaspe under their own mass, overcoming gravity or inertia tearing them apart around his human-sized hands.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Stamina: Superman has the ability to maintain continuous strenuous physical action for an undefined period. Theoretically, most incarnations of the character has practically unlimited stamina as his enhanced nourishment is produced from the solar energy his cells process; however his base physical structure still does need to process food stuffs as well as has the psychological need to eat and drink just as Earth humans do, despite the fact that his superhuman powers receives the majority of that energy from a yellow sun. He does require sleep on occasion so he can dream. He can also hold his breath for an undefined duration.
á á á á á á * Flight: Superman is presumably able to manipulate psionically, graviton particles, in an unknown and apparently unconscious manner, to defy the forces of gravity. Under one Earth gravity, Superman is capable of speeds of multi Mach speeds in Earth's atmosphere. His control of his flight is very precise and he can perform aerobatic feats such as hovering, flying backwards and even lifting great weights while flying. Superman has repeatedly demonstrated he has the ability to achieve orbital speeds, fly in outer space and land safely down to a planet's surface from outer space.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Speed: Superman is capable of enhanced reflex action and the ability to move at incredible speeds by sheer force of will. He is not as fast as the Flash, but he can achieve faster than light speed under his own power in space. Superman can match most other speedsters in their ability to perform super-fast movements, reactions, and processes. He can use this power to disarm opponents who do not have heightened reflexes, catch bullets or shrapnel or cross vast distances in seconds.
á á á á á á * Super-Breath: The ability to create hurricane force winds by blowing, and to chill his breath in order to freeze a target (this latter ability has also been called "freeze breath" and "arctic breath"). Superman can also breathe in large amounts of air, an ability used when dealing with and disposing things like clouds of poison gas.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Hearing: The ability to hear any sound at any volume or pitch. The only Earth creature who can detect sounds at the frequency he can is a blue whale (0.01-200,000 Hz). He has shown enough control to block out ambient sounds to focus on a specific source/frequency. He can identify a person by their heartbeat, or pick out a single voice in an entire city.
á á á á á á * Heat Vision: The ability to fire beams of intense heat at a target by looking at it with the conscious act of activating this power. Visually, the power is typically depicted as two beams of red light firing from his eyes. These beams can be made invisible, allowing Superman to work undetected. The maximum temperature of his heat vision is said to be around that of a nuclear detonation. The area of effect can be consciously determined by Superman, down to the microscopic level. Recent stories imply the precision is so exact it can bypass a target's outer shell (not causing damage to a person's skull for surgical purposes) or even defenses (such as invulnerability or intangibility).
á á á á á á * Superman Vision: Under only the rays of a Blue sun, Superman found out that he develops a new vision power that allows non-Kryptonians Superman-like powers. The lasting effects seem to only work under a blue sun, once Superman and that person leaves the planet of the sun, the person will lose his powers.
á á á á á á * Superhuman Vision: He also possess a superior sensory arrangement of microscopic, telescopic, infrared and ultraviolet visual capabilities. He is able to see the entire spectrum. Microscopic, chemical, x-ray, auditory, ultrasonic, magnetic, photonic, etc. Star Laboratories has not been able to complete define how Superman has been able to utilize his powerful senses, part of the mechanism is physical, part of it is believed to be psionic in nature. Abilities include:
á á á á á á á á * Electro-Magnetic Spectrum Vision: Can see well into most of the EM Spectrum. He can see and identify radio/television and any and all broadcast/transmitted frequencies, allowing him to avoid detection through radar or satellite monitoring methods. Superman can see the paranormal aura that every living thing generates. This ability is apparently one of the main reasons that Superman is a vegetarian, as he can see the passing of the "soul" at death.
á á á á á á á á * Telescopic Vision: The ability to "zoom in" his distance to see something at a great distance, without violating the laws of physics. The total telescopic ability is unclassified, but presumed limited to some extent.
á á á á á á á á * X-Ray Vision: The ability to see through anything except lead. He can see things behind a wall as if the wall were not there, or can "peel back" layer after layer of matter in his mind. Opponents sometimes used lead-lined constructs in an attempt to hide things from Superman. Kal-El is able to focus his vision past layers of matter, literally seeing "through" them -- possibly perceiving x-rays, cosmic rays or other forms of energy invisible to normal human vision which pass through Earth's atmosphere (and solid objects) after emission from stars. Since it is passive, this ability would not generate harmful radiation in the same manner as a focused projection of hard X-rays.
á á á á á á á á * Microscopic Vision: The ability to see extremely small objects and images down to the atomic level (normal optical microscopes can only see objects down to the size of chromosomes).
á á á á á á á á * Infrared Vision: Allows him to see better in total darkness. He can detect the heat signatures of living beings or devices in operation.
á á á á á á á á * Ultraviolet
á á á á á á á á * Chemical
á á á á á á á á * Ultrasonic
á á á á á á á á * Magnetic
á á á á á á á á * Auditory
á á á á á á á á * Photonic
Abilities
Expert Combatant: Superman has been trained in the art of boxing by Wildcat, wrestling by Wonder Woman, and underwater/space combat by Mongul.
Genius-Level Intellect: Superman has shown enhanced intelligence, meorization and computational abilities; his mind works sharply and with extreme speed. His analytical powers are impressive ù he is able to use his senses to read information directly from machines (and, with careful usage of his heat vision, he can even reprogram certain machines). He also posseses a photographic memory which means he has total recall.
Strength level
Unknown.
Weaknesses
á á * Magic: Superman is also vulnerable to magical effects. Although he is no more detrimentally affected by such effects than a normal human would be, this is a significantly exploitable weakness in comparison to his incredible physical resilience.
á á * Kryptonite: Since the destruction of Krypton, its remains (rendered radioactive by the explosion) have been spreading throughout the universe as kryptonite, a crystalline substance whose specific radiation is lethal to Kryptonians native to this reality. There is currently only one natural type of Kyrptonite in the New Earth dimension: Green (Red Kryptonite of the New Earth dimension is artifically created through radioactive manipulation of Green) and both types' effect are directly poisonous to Kryptonians native to the Kryptonite source in a very fast rate. Both forms of Kryptonite are deadly to all living organisms but as a reduced rate compared to Kryptonians same to that native dimension. External dimensional Kryptonite has been repeatedly shown to be ineffective against Kryptonians who do not originate from that same source dimension as Kal-El was against the Kryptonite of the Superboy of the "Pocket Universe".
á á * Lead: Superman cannot see through lead with his vision powers.
á á * Solar Energy: Superman will eventually weaken without replenishing his energy reserves with normal (yellow) sun radiation. He is not replenished by red sunlight, and its radiation can be used to weaken him.
á á * Psionics: Depending upon the writer, Superman is either highly resistent to psionic affects (typically attributed to either his advanced Kryptonian mind or alien brain structure) or he can be affected as easily as a normal human, albeit one with a high level of will power.
Powers
Known Powers: Truly infinite power levels of Flight, Invulnerability, Strength and Speed (faster than light) which were all based on his body's ability to absorb, process and store yellow sun radiation in some way to allow him to do these feats. He would lose all of his powers under the presence of a red sun such as his native Krypton star in a short period of time.
The Earth-One Superman's physical abilities included Heat Vision, Telescopic Vision, Microscopic Vision, X-Ray Vision, Super Breath, Super Ventriloquism, Super Hypnotism. All of these powers were infinitely powered as well, as noted in a story published in Feb 1961, one of his super sneezes literally destroys an entire distant solar system.
As long as the Earth-One Superman is charged under a yellow sun, he doesn't need to eat, breathe, or sleep. He is also impervious to extreme heat and cold. Able to survive indefinitely in a vacuum in a yellow sun system.
The only true limitations to his power levels were kryptonite and powerful magic. Psionics could also effect him but, unless done quickly, Superman's superconcentration would overcome most enemies who used mind control techniques on him, as did magic that did not immediately immobilize him, since he would immediately move out of their range of effectiveness.
Abilities
Briliant scientist and inventor, especially in robotics. Appears to speak every known language on Earth as well as several alien languages. Photographic memory.
Strength level
"More powerful than a locomotive" doesn't begin to cover it. He has been known to move planets from one solar system to another barehanded, outmuscle black holes, and once in a battle with one of his descendants altered the course of the time stream continuum.
Weaknesses
Kryptonite, Magic
Known Powers: Truly infinite power levels of Flight, Invulnerability, Strength and Speed (faster than light) which were all based on his body's ability to absorb, process and store yellow sun radiation in some way to allow him to do these feats. He would lose all of his powers under the presence of a red sun such as his native Krypton star in a short period of time.
The Earth-One Superman's physical abilities included Heat Vision, Telescopic Vision, Microscopic Vision, X-Ray Vision, Super Breath, Super Ventriloquism, Super Hypnotism. All of these powers were infinitely powered as well, as noted in a story published in Feb 1961, one of his super sneezes literally destroys an entire distant solar system.
As long as the Earth-One Superman is charged under a yellow sun, he doesn't need to eat, breathe, or sleep. He is also impervious to extreme heat and cold. Able to survive indefinitely in a vacuum in a yellow sun system.
The only true limitations to his power levels were kryptonite and powerful magic. Psionics could also effect him but, unless done quickly, Superman's superconcentration would overcome most enemies who used mind control techniques on him, as did magic that did not immediately immobilize him, since he would immediately move out of their range of effectiveness.
Abilities
Briliant scientist and inventor, especially in robotics. Appears to speak every known language on Earth as well as several alien languages. Photographic memory.
Strength level
"More powerful than a locomotive" doesn't begin to cover it. He has been known to move planets from one solar system to another barehanded, outmuscle black holes, and once in a battle with one of his descendants altered the course of the time stream continuum.
Weaknesses
Kryptonite, Magic
This is like putting a body builder (Superman) against Bruce Lee (Goku). At first glance you'd think that the body builder would kill the little asian guy but then Bruce lee would hit him about a dozen times and the body builder would be out like a light.
Superman is all brute power and little skill. As far as him taking Goku into space and suffocating him. Instant transmission. Goku with his energy sensing abilities would figure out where Superman was getting his strength and more than likely transport him to another world.
Superman is all brute power and little skill. As far as him taking Goku into space and suffocating him. Instant transmission. Goku with his energy sensing abilities would figure out where Superman was getting his strength and more than likely transport him to another world.
Superman is all brute power and little skill. As far as him taking Goku into space and suffocating him. Instant transmission. Goku with his energy sensing abilities would figure out where Superman was getting his strength and more than likely transport him to another world.
And your example fails to show anything except your bias in Goku's favor. Have you ever even read Superman comics? Yes, Goku has an advantage in training. Yes, he's a badass martial artist with immense ki powers. None of which will let him actually hurt Superman. The only things that really HURT Superman were things like Kryptonite, Doomsday, or the Omega Effect, which is essentially a Delete button for the DC universe.
Yeah, Goku could likely have a really good fight with Supes. But unless, like I said earlier, the Plot Armor kicks in (which would also have to overwhelm Supes' considerable plot armor) and he teleports with Supes to a red sun world or near Kyrptonite, I just don't see a way for him to hurt Superman seriously.
But the main problem with doing a Goku v. Superman is that they would likely be unwilling to fight each other, since they're both Boy Scouts.
Edit @ Seiya: Yes, Superman did beat Doomsday in their first battle (I think. Can't really remember that well), but Doomsday killed Superman in the second. Who then came back later, because of his godlike plot armor. And Doomsday was able to hurt Superman because he evolves to be immune to whatever beats him.
Uh, no it's not.
Bodybuilders don't get into fights, most of the time. Superman, much like Goku, has been fighting aliens, monsters, cyborgs, mutated humans, immortal magic-users, champions of gods, demons, virtually unstoppable robots, and other such things for most of his life. That's a lot of combat experience against a huge number of opponents who had widely divergent abilities that were, nevertheless, defeated by Superman. Furthermore, he's not untrained in combat, if you read my post above, you'd notice that he was trained in several combat systems by various combatants, most notably Wonder Woman, noted by Batman to be the most skilled melee fighter on Earth. Body builders only care about the condition of their muscles, not combat effectiveness, while Superman has been fighting for the vast majority of his life.
So, it's not like that. At all.
Also, I would like to know where you got the idea that Goku's energy sensing abilities would let him know Superman's source of power, because that sounds like a lot of bullshit. So he can sense that Superman has a lot of energy, how the heck does that let him know where it came from in the first place? Also, Superman's not going to immediately keel over if he's away from the sun...note the eventually. As in, it would take awhile. Also note that Superman can fly through space at speeds faster than the speed of light. If he wants to, he could just fly right back to some yellow sun somewhere.
Bodybuilders don't get into fights, most of the time. Superman, much like Goku, has been fighting aliens, monsters, cyborgs, mutated humans, immortal magic-users, champions of gods, demons, virtually unstoppable robots, and other such things for most of his life. That's a lot of combat experience against a huge number of opponents who had widely divergent abilities that were, nevertheless, defeated by Superman. Furthermore, he's not untrained in combat, if you read my post above, you'd notice that he was trained in several combat systems by various combatants, most notably Wonder Woman, noted by Batman to be the most skilled melee fighter on Earth. Body builders only care about the condition of their muscles, not combat effectiveness, while Superman has been fighting for the vast majority of his life.
So, it's not like that. At all.
Also, I would like to know where you got the idea that Goku's energy sensing abilities would let him know Superman's source of power, because that sounds like a lot of bullshit. So he can sense that Superman has a lot of energy, how the heck does that let him know where it came from in the first place? Also, Superman's not going to immediately keel over if he's away from the sun...note the eventually. As in, it would take awhile. Also note that Superman can fly through space at speeds faster than the speed of light. If he wants to, he could just fly right back to some yellow sun somewhere.
If someone could give an exact level of strength for Goku or Superman that would be great.
And that's just Super Saiyan. At full output at the end of the anime, Goku and the other top tier characters are probably pushing a trillion, give or take. No one ever actually bothered to give precise measurements after a certain point in the series, and even that trickled off into no one even bothering to try. Also, Dr. Gero seemed to use a different system for measuring power levels than the one used up until that point, so most of what the androids and Cell say aren't entirely reliable.
Also, while I'm not as familiar with the DCverse as I am the Marvelverse, I've never seen anything to suggest that Superman is immune to ki attacks. Ki is a spiritual power, which is a cousin to magic, so it isn't much of a stretch to imagine that Superman's immunity and invulnerability wouldn't work on ki attacks.
Dude...that might work, except Goku's kind of.....well, dumb. As a rock.
None of which will let him actually hurt Superman.
You could, given the strength, skill, and ability, beat Superman without exploiting any of his weaknesses. He's been beaten into unconsciousness before, and it's been heavily suggested (and it stands to reason) that he could be beaten to death.
This isn't about Silver Age Superman. Nothing can touch that, so it's not fair to bring it up, as that's clearly not what the OP was talking about when proposing the idea. This is about Superman right now, and as it stands, Goku stands a fair chance of winning.
Also, if you're going to cite oldschool events as evidence, then the least you can do is include the context they were in. Taking them out-of-context, whether accidently or purposefully, is not a winning strategy. Superman did not "shrug off" a nuclear blast and "only" fall unconscious, he was, and I quote from the comic artist, "nearly killed". If the blast had been any stronger, Superman would have died. Canon. Fact.
Also, there are limits to how long he can hold his breath. The limits were created to place a leash on how much Superman could do in space. Since he needs to breathe to survive, and there's no atmosphere in space, Superman's ability to travel without aid through space is limited by how long he can hold his breath.
Which, BTW, is something that doesn't bother Saiyans in the slightest. Saiyans can survive in vacuum and have been seen casually floating around in space effortlessly without a care in the world. Not only does that invalidate the proposed "drag Goku into space and let him suffocate" theory, but it is something Goku can do that Superman can't.
Granted, some of that has been reconed recently (particulary the nuke thing and the ability to hold his breath), but if you're going to start trying to cite past incarnations of Superman's powers as "proof" he would win, then you better also remember his past limitations and weaknesses.
As it stands right now, I'm not seeing a structured discussion about this. The people on Goku's side are basically static, while the people on Superman's side are mixing and matching Superman's powers from all across his various incarnations to create some sort of mutant Superman ideal that never actually existed in DC canon.
Pick an age or a specific incarnation and stick with it.
And before someone says it, Silver Age is out of the running, because we already know Silver Age Superman would turn Goku inside-out in a fight, along with pretty much anyone else. Silver Age Superman was quite possibly the biggest Mary Sue of all time. So no Silver Age.
Who then came back later, because of his godlike plot armor.
At least, I thought it was, at any rate.
And Doomsday was able to hurt Superman because he evolves to be immune to whatever beats him.
Granted, they don't do it as quickly as Doomsday, but they still show titanic leaps in power and adaption from fight-to-fight. If Superman doesn't kill Goku (and he won't, because Superman never kills, like, anyone ever no matter what), Goku will just come back later with the ability to actually pose a serious threat.
So he can sense that Superman has a lot of energy, how the heck does that let him know where it came from in the first place?
Even Master Roshi, a normal human, was able to sense that Goku's power was coming from the moon when he transformed. There are also quite a few instances of individuals either tracing where powers are coming from, or masking said trails deliberately to keep others from finding out.
Roshi could do it since Dragon Ball. Piccolo has been able to since he first appeared. Both Vegita and Goku could do it way back when Vegita first came to Earth. Pretty much everyone involved in the Nameken arc onwards through GT who could fight worth a damn could do it.
D
Lord Raine said:
And Doomsday was able to hurt Superman because he evolves to be immune to whatever beats him.
Granted, they don't do it as quickly as Doomsday, but they still show titanic leaps in power and adaption from fight-to-fight. If Superman doesn't kill Goku (and he won't, because Superman never kills, like, anyone ever no matter what), Goku will just come back later with the ability to actually pose a serious threat.
Like I said before I don't really know a lot about DC and haven't seen DBZ in years so I can't really argue about the rest of it.
SeiyaxUsagi said:
Lord Raine said:
And Doomsday was able to hurt Superman because he evolves to be immune to whatever beats him.
Granted, they don't do it as quickly as Doomsday, but they still show titanic leaps in power and adaption from fight-to-fight. If Superman doesn't kill Goku (and he won't, because Superman never kills, like, anyone ever no matter what), Goku will just come back later with the ability to actually pose a serious threat.
Like I said before I don't really know a lot about DC and haven't seen DBZ in years so I can't really argue about the rest of it.
I'm merely pointing out that since Saiyans can also do it (albeit nowhere near that level of H4X), it's only a matter of time until Goku does develop the ability to kill Superman.
I remember seeing Goku in otherworld with 8 tons of weights while baseline and with 40 tons in Super Saiyan saying it was too easy. If I remember right, the gravity of those planets is times ten. So 400 tons.
If a nuclear blast could nearly kill Superman then Goku who can toss out blasts equal to or greater than that like candy should be able to beat that version like nothing.
One thing that is for sure is that the cartoon/movie versions would die in like 3 seconds if that.
If a nuclear blast could nearly kill Superman then Goku who can toss out blasts equal to or greater than that like candy should be able to beat that version like nothing.
One thing that is for sure is that the cartoon/movie versions would die in like 3 seconds if that.
Yeah, Goku would beat that particular version of Superman into the ground. That incarnation had all sorts of limits on his powers, and actually had to watch out for himself in a fight, because he could be killed by some of the heavy hitters.
And the modern cartoon version of Superman is weak as all hell. Getting hit by a single anti-air missile knocked him unconscious.
And the modern cartoon version of Superman is weak as all hell. Getting hit by a single anti-air missile knocked him unconscious.
roting_CORPSE said:
I wonder what would happened if Cell or Buu manage to absorb Superman.
Buu absorbing Superman would be insane but it would depend on which version absorbs him.
Fat Buu (original) Would be an antihero. Doing good but not really wanting to.
Fat Buu (good) would then become the single greatest hero in all the multiverse.
Kid Buu would be a lot like Super Buu.
Super Buu absorbing Superman would be pretty scary. He would more than likely destroy the fabric of reality on accident.
I think part of it depends on which reality they end up in since the laws of the DC and DBZ realities are a bit different.
Edit: Something I've been wondering about, who is Saints?
Fat Buu (original) Would be an antihero. Doing good but not really wanting to.
Fat Buu (good) would then become the single greatest hero in all the multiverse.
Kid Buu would be a lot like Super Buu.
Super Buu absorbing Superman would be pretty scary. He would more than likely destroy the fabric of reality on accident.
I think part of it depends on which reality they end up in since the laws of the DC and DBZ realities are a bit different.
Edit: Something I've been wondering about, who is Saints?
Yes it will. Even ignoring the fact that ki attacks would likely work on him, Superman can be hurt by normal things. He just has an absolutely insane amount of resilience towards it.
KI IS NOT MAGIC. Don't liken it to such just because you want to make a fight even.
Also, there are limits to how long he can hold his breath. The limits were created to place a leash on how much Superman could do in space. Since he needs to breathe to survive, and there's no atmosphere in space, Superman's ability to travel without aid through space is limited by how long he can hold his breath.
Which, BTW, is something that doesn't bother Saiyans in the slightest. Saiyans can survive in vacuum and have been seen casually floating around in space effortlessly without a care in the world. Not only does that invalidate the proposed "drag Goku into space and let him suffocate" theory, but it is something Goku can do that Superman can't.
Which, BTW, is something that doesn't bother Saiyans in the slightest. Saiyans can survive in vacuum and have been seen casually floating around in space effortlessly without a care in the world. Not only does that invalidate the proposed "drag Goku into space and let him suffocate" theory, but it is something Goku can do that Superman can't.
And during the fight, Frieza OUTRIGHT STATED he can survive in space, while Goku can't. Given how he was intimately familiar with how Saiyan phisiology works from having employed - and exterminated - them, and observed their capabilities firsthand, I'd give more credit to what HE says over what YOU claim...
The only Saiyan we truly see in space outside of the load of non-Toriyama crap that is GT is Broly, and even he needed to encase himself in a protective bubble.
Also, I find it amusing that people here use Goku at his absolute toughest against Superman NOT at his absolute toughest. I you use Goku at his peak, then you should also use Supes at his peak, and at his peak, Supes doesn't need to breathe at all, so the whole 'he needs to breathe' excuse goes right out of the window.
On the breathe-in-space issue, the only times we saw Saiyans breathing in space were during filler.
1. Vejita and Nappa destroying Arlia.
2. Brolly in his escape from Vejita-sei.
3. Bardock and the other Saiyans trying to fight off Frieza.
They're filler, and they're plot-holes to boot. Frieza outright says that Goku is boned if the planet explodes, because Saiyans need to breathe. Frieza's race, whatever the fuck they are, don't.
Now, Dragonball fans have been trying to explain that shit for a long time. Maybe the space-pods could generate breathable atmosphere for a short time. Maybe Saiyans could trap air in a Ki-bubble around them. Maybe the final battle took place in the upper atmosphere.
That said, there's been no definitive explanation - and the primary canon said that Saiyans couldn't breathe in space.
Relying on a filler-based plot-hole to hand Goku a win is incredibly poor form.
1. Vejita and Nappa destroying Arlia.
2. Brolly in his escape from Vejita-sei.
3. Bardock and the other Saiyans trying to fight off Frieza.
They're filler, and they're plot-holes to boot. Frieza outright says that Goku is boned if the planet explodes, because Saiyans need to breathe. Frieza's race, whatever the fuck they are, don't.
Now, Dragonball fans have been trying to explain that shit for a long time. Maybe the space-pods could generate breathable atmosphere for a short time. Maybe Saiyans could trap air in a Ki-bubble around them. Maybe the final battle took place in the upper atmosphere.
That said, there's been no definitive explanation - and the primary canon said that Saiyans couldn't breathe in space.
Relying on a filler-based plot-hole to hand Goku a win is incredibly poor form.
Will you guys give a specific Superman and an outline of his powers? Earlier I pointed out which versions would be defeated easily. At that point they are no longer selections or any of there powers. No were not using Goku at his best. Goku at his best would be dragon infused Goku who is basically a God like being. (I'm talking omnipotent all powerful REAL God).
Black Star Shenron with Piccolo's power backing him could make any wish no restrictions.
Shenron with Dende providing the power could only do so much but with Goku's power tied into it's own there would no longer be no restrictions.
So no we haven't been using Goku at his strongest. We've been using him at one specific point, the end of DBZ. Unlike the people using Superman who have been using powers from different timelines. GT has not been used at all. We didn't bother introducing Oozaru transformation either or SS4. Saying that we're using him at his peak is not true.
Like I said before how about we use current day Superman against end of DBZ Goku.
Use only powers that current day Superman has. There are probably 200 different versions of Superman out there. Use the one out right now with his powers and weaknesses.
As far as breathing in outer space. Goku can last about half an hour, this is a fact. He can hold his breath for that long and Saiyans can shrug off the other effects of Space so we will limit it to that.
Again, use current day Superman and end of DBZ Goku. I have been listing off Goku's abilities that I know for sure he can use.
I thing I don't understand is how Superman can go faster than light and not be absorber by the Speedforce or is that only for humans.
Also, we should pick a reality to hold the fight in. Since the two realities seem to have different rules.
Edit: Almost forgot. Don't know the properties of ki. It's some sort of energy that can be used in almost any way. No, it's not really bio produced. It was used by Buu to hurt the dead so we don't know the limits.
Black Star Shenron with Piccolo's power backing him could make any wish no restrictions.
Shenron with Dende providing the power could only do so much but with Goku's power tied into it's own there would no longer be no restrictions.
So no we haven't been using Goku at his strongest. We've been using him at one specific point, the end of DBZ. Unlike the people using Superman who have been using powers from different timelines. GT has not been used at all. We didn't bother introducing Oozaru transformation either or SS4. Saying that we're using him at his peak is not true.
Like I said before how about we use current day Superman against end of DBZ Goku.
Use only powers that current day Superman has. There are probably 200 different versions of Superman out there. Use the one out right now with his powers and weaknesses.
As far as breathing in outer space. Goku can last about half an hour, this is a fact. He can hold his breath for that long and Saiyans can shrug off the other effects of Space so we will limit it to that.
Again, use current day Superman and end of DBZ Goku. I have been listing off Goku's abilities that I know for sure he can use.
I thing I don't understand is how Superman can go faster than light and not be absorber by the Speedforce or is that only for humans.
Also, we should pick a reality to hold the fight in. Since the two realities seem to have different rules.
Edit: Almost forgot. Don't know the properties of ki. It's some sort of energy that can be used in almost any way. No, it's not really bio produced. It was used by Buu to hurt the dead so we don't know the limits.