Naruto The Naruto Question Thread

[Knyght]

Okay, the way I understand the Rasenshuriken is that the additon of wind nature transformation to the Rasengan causes it to achieve a more powerful form with the innate properties of that chakra nature. Once Naruto realises that he needs another shadow clone to apply nature transformation, he manages to add enough wind chakra to the Rasengan that it started to take a shape that reflected that rather than just exploding. But as I said, that was just the equivalent of Naruto's incomplete version of the Rasengan which was barely comparable to the final product.

By the time Naruto joined the fight against Kakuzu, he had been able to add enough nature transformation that it was essentially able to achieve its completed form. Just like Naruto completing the Rasengan and bringing out its true capabilities against Kabuto.

In other words, I believe the act of fully applying wind nature transformation to the Rasengan changes its shape as an innate part of the process (growing four blades of chakra made up of hundreds of miscrospic ones) but not that Naruto is first creating the Wind Release: Rasengan and adding some other type of shape transformation to make it into something more. The task is already so difficult that he splits it between himself and two shadow clones; if he needed to deliberately transform its shape even further then I'd expected him to add another shadow clone to do it. Both databook entries describe it only as "Rasengan + wind nature transformation" which is exactly what Naruto was shown to practice exclusively. The shuriken/blade aspect comes from the wind chakra; every other element used was being added on top of Wind Release: Rasenshuriken which acted as the base template rather than the Rasengan.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

so, you suggest PIC RELATED

is the natural shape of ANY Elemental Rasengan and by extension that the Shuriken form is the "full power" natural elemental form

(obviously, the effects would change depending on the chakra nature)

 

[Knyght]

Yeah? If by "the effects would change" you mean that it wouldn't be an actual shuriken form but some other kind shape depending on the chakra nature. Not sure I read you right.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

No, I did mean: Rasenshuriken is the default shape of ANY elemental Rasengan when pushed at its limits.

Because it's either that or the Shuriken form is an ulterior Shape Manipulation, given we have seen Non-Wind Rasenshurikens

 

[Altered Nova]

@Knight - So you are saying that the Lava Release Rasenshuriken was only shuriken-shaped because it was actually a combination jutsu between Naruto and Son Goku, and it consisted of both Wind nature chakra and Lava nature chakra? Similar to Naruto and Yamato's Art of the Hurricane Vortex from chapter 337, or Naruto and Sasuke's Scorch Style: Nimbus Gale Jet-Black Arrow Formation: Zero from chapter 634?

Also, you are saying that the shuriken shape of the Rasenshuriken is an inherent trait of the wind nature chakra being pushed to it's ultimate limit, and that a complete elemental rasengan for any other element would have a different unique shape that better suits that particular element's properties? (If so, then I am really curious as to what Kakashi's lightning release rasengan would have looked like it had been able to complete and master it...)

 

[Knyght]

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Altered Nova]

Well, you make a good argument. I'm convinced.

 

[Antimatter]

It's honestly hard to make any judgements on how different chakra wou'd change it's shape, as all shown looked the same. It's possibly that's just how naruto shapes the elemental chakra when it comes to rasengan variants.

Interestingly, the planetary rasengan also operated with a similar shape, that is, a rasangan core with orbiting other bodies. Except in that case, it was smaller rasengans.

 

[Knyght]

When Kakashi thinks that Sakura's chakra reserves are nothing compared to Naruto and Sasuke's, do you think he's implying that that is the reason her chakra control is so much better than their's or are they two separate statements.

http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Naruto-chapter-18-page-18.html

I assume the latter but I've sern it argued the other way.

 

[Altered Nova]

I assume it's unconnected. I think that Sakura's chakra control is so good because she's so dang booksmart. She just understands how chakra works better than them from her studies.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Kakashi doesn't implies correlation between chakra control and chakra amount in that page.

I also don't think her being knowledgeable about chakra is relevant. If anything, her ability to focus and concentrate on a task is at least part of what makes her chakra control excellent.
I guess there is a genetic predisposition, too

 

[AoMythology]

Yes, if being book-smart were all it took, then desk ninjas like Shiho from Cryptanalysis would be part-time medic-nins as well.

Quick question: what is Shikamaru's Chakra Control like?

 

[Knyght]

No idea. Hardly any of the characters have anything said about their chakra control e.g. Team Seven and Tsunade.

On topic of the Rasenshuriken, what do you suppose specifically makes the difference between the version where it can't be thrown and the version where it can?

And on an entirely different topic (which I admittedly might have asked before but can't recall), what do you think makes someone's chakra 'powerful'?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

On topic of the Rasenshuriken, what do you suppose specifically makes the difference between the version where it can't be thrown and the version where it can?

I'm going to guess "chakra density" And\Or "Chakra power"

And on an entirely different topic (which I admittedly might have asked before but can't recall), what do you think makes someone's chakra 'powerful'?

The amount\quality of the Spiritual Energy component.

Physical Energy decides QUANTITY of chakra one can make but the QUALITY=Power of the Chakra comes from the Spiritual Energy.

 

[Altered Nova]

I agree that the "quality" of chakra is mostly determined by the mental energy component. More specifically, it's determined by emotion/mental state. For instance, when Sasuke flips the fuck out against Danzou, Karin notes that his chakra has completely changed and Obito states that his body is responding to his now matured rage.

Spoiler

A similar thing happened at the Hokage summit. Sasuke warned the samurai that he was so irritated that he didn't think he could hold back anymore if they came at him. Karin then noted that his chakra had changed as he slaughtered them, that it was "thicker" and "darker" than when he was in the cursed mark second state.

Later on, Obito even specifically attributes Sasuke's strength to his great hatred, calling it "the true source of his power."

Spoiler

So yeah, strongly held emotions/ideals can influence the properties (thickness, color, temperature) of one's chakra. Rage and hatred are obvious choices for augmenting one's chakra, but I imagine that positive ones work too - Karin did describe Naruto's chakra as warm and sunny, and his determination is damn near unbreakable.

How do you guys think this idea affects yin and yang release jutsu which use intentionally unbalanced chakra ratios? Do yin release jutsu like genjutsu all require small amounts of "powerful" chakra because they are mostly spiritual energy? Do yang release jutsu like the multi-size technique require large amounts of "weak" chakra because they are mostly physical energy?

 

[AoMythology]

Possibly. Though I'd say one can compress the Chakra -put more in the same volume, rather- to make it more powerful (at the cost of more stamina) or make it less concentrated than their normal (which might need a lot of focus).

Edit: Note that Uchiha experience emotions in a different, stronger way than others, and it just so happens that they have powerful Chakra and are good at Yin Release.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Do yang release jutsu like the multi-size technique require large amounts of "weak" chakra because they are mostly physical energy?

If you think about it, the Akimichi technique burns specifically calories, and they bother to keep THEM up, which means they mostly burn PHYSICAL energy.

But, once Choji did reach maturity->gained more spiritual energy, he could use the Butterfly Form without worries- which suggests the Spiritual Energy is the key to CONTROL techniques

it just so happens that they have powerful Chakra and are good at Yin Release.

I don't remember anywhere was stated the Uchiha as a whole had "powerful chakra" and "good at Yin Release"

Also, I still wonder about Shisui. His Mangekyo techniques were broken genjutsu=Yin release and was the best of the whole Clan at them, but he was known for Shunshin=Yang Release.
He might have been a goddamn monster. Which might explain why outside his body his eyes had such long cooldowns, he had either naturally or through training(I'm leaning "naturally") managed to obtain super-high levels of Physical Energy which most people wouldn't have without Hashirama Cells. Which resulted in the eye going safety lock after one use, while when used by Shisui he could keep using them(or, at very least, use them much more often)

BTW, the cooldown of his eyes outside his body, at least for the broken version of Kotoamatsukami, is 10 years. About 7-to-8 years passed since he gave his eye to Itachi. Did Itachi ever said when the previous cooldown was supposed to end? Or it's only fan speculation the eye was under cooldown?

 

[AoMythology]

If you think about it, the Akimichi technique burns specifically calories, and they bother to keep THEM up, which means they mostly burn PHYSICAL energy.

But, once Choji did reach maturity->gained more spiritual energy, he could use the Butterfly Form without worries- which suggests the Spiritual Energy is the key to CONTROL techniques

If you think about it, excepting Tsunade, strong medic-nins are proficient in both Yin Release and Yang Release.

I don't remember anywhere was stated the Uchiha as a whole had "powerful chakra" and "good at Yin Release"

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/462/12

As for Yin Release, genjutsu is the Sharingan's specialty, though I'm not sure if it's been stated in the manga.

Also, I still wonder about Shisui. His Mangekyo techniques were broken genjutsu=Yin release and was the best of the whole Clan at them, but he was known for Shunshin=Yang Release.

Was it ever stated anywhere that Shunshin is Yang Release? :hmm:

 

[ankokudaishogun]

If you think about it, excepting Tsunade, strong medic-nins are proficient in both Yin Release and Yang Release.

Manipulating other's life-force\body=Yang with extreme control and precision=Yin

Would explain why the few shinobi with even just basic healing tehcniques.

I don't remember anywhere was stated the Uchiha as a whole had "powerful chakra" and "good at Yin Release"

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/462/12

Right, forgot about that. Thanks.

As for Yin Release, genjutsu is the Sharingan's specialty, though I'm not sure if it's been stated in the manga.

Genjutsu is at best ONE of the Sharingan specialities. But they were mostly known for its prediction\copy ability

Was it ever stated anywhere that Shunshin is Yang Release? :hmm:

It's literally a technique that uses chakra to power-up muscles. I'd say if all Genjutsu are Yin, any body-enhancement technique is Yang.

 

[AoMythology]

Good point.

As for the genjutsu, the most OP ability of the base Sharingan is arguably its nigh-inescapable genjutsu without hand-seals.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Night-inescapable? We haven't seen much of that Genjutsu being used by a non-Mangekyo user.
IIRC we have seen only few times a normal Sharingan Genjutsu:
against Zabuza, which was a small hypnotic effect.
Sasuke's during his genjutsu fight with Itachi. Which they spent breaking from each other's "nigh-inescapable" illusion.
and...
....
Stop. Every other time it was a Mangekyo Genjutsu except the time it was used to put to sleep the Root agents, who were taken by surprise. And Kakashi had already mastered the Mangekyo at that point.

 

[Knyght]

Sasuke fucking with Sai, Itachi vs Deidara and Sasuke vs Deidara (x2) were some others, IIRC.

 

[AoMythology]

Well, old Chiyo did say it was really hard to break out of a Sharingan genjutsu alone. BTW, Sharingan vs Sharingan doesn't count.

 

[Altered Nova]

The Sharingan's genjutsu are not nigh-unbreakable. Chiyo specifically advised Kakashi and his team that you should attack a sharingan user two-on-one, firstly so one can be a decoy and the other can attack from the blindspots, and secondly so that even if one of you gets caught in a genjutsu the other can free them. The only truly unbreakable genjutsu is Itachi's Tsukuyomi, because it alters the perception of time and defeats you literally in an instant.

No the Sharingan's genjutsu aren't dangerous because they are particularly difficult to escape (except for the Mangekyou) they are dangerous because they are nigh-impossible to avoid or resist, requiring only the briefest of direct eye-contact to become ensnared... and because the user doesn't need to use handseals, so there is no obvious warning when your opponent is preparing a genjutsu or tell that you may have already fallen under one and not realized it yet.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Raikage didn't seem to have much of an opinion about Sharingan Genjutsu.