Naruto The Naruto Question Thread

[Altered Nova]

A typical academy student probably doesn't have a large enough chakra reserve to effectively practice tree climbing and water walking. They are pretty chakra intensive, and probably normally have to be taught by a jounin sensei simply because most ninja won't plausibly be able to master them until later in their teens.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

while THOSE exercises are likely genin-only, there is no doubt they teach some degree of chakra contro, given they have to teach how to make chakra in first place.

 

[Knyght]

Teach them to create chakra, sure, but beyond that I'm not so certain. The idea of controlling chakra itself comes across as new concept for them when it's introduced.

Personally I think it's a mix of tradition and lack of necessity. That it started out as a skill taught by jounin and wasn't changed because they never actually needed to be learn it before that point. It would benefit them but it isn't required for most kids to master the necessary jutsu in the first place and would be harder to include during times when the graduation age was really low. Plus managing an entire class of kids running up trees would be a pain in the ass.

Though this may just an example of Konoha's curriculum which could potentially differ from others. Suna's was said to be raising a small number of skilled ninja (ha!) so it could be they teach those exercises at the cost of the graduating being more difficult. And some villages don't have an academy.

(Like Kiri according to the fourth databook. :huh!

 

[Altered Nova]

I agree that the academy probably doesn't teach the students proper chakra control as part of the standard curriculum. They obviously teach them how to control their physical and mental energy, at least enough to link them together and balance them in order to mold chakra, but beyond that I got the impression that they only teach the students how to use handseals which automatically shape and transform the chakra for them. Learning how to control chakra without seals is generally advanced, relatively chakra-intensive training that is left to either the student's sensei and/or family to instruct, or for them to pursue on their own time between D-rank missions (probably through optional post-graduate academy classes).

@knight - What do you mean Kiri doesn't have a shinobi academy? Have you forgotten about Zabuza's backstory?

 

[Knyght]

Oh, I remember. But for some reason the fourth databook specify that Oto and Kiri don't have an academy.

Probably a error confuse Ame with Kiri since the former was the one said not to have an academy in the last databook. Otherwise something very strange happened and the academy was closed down at some point.

 

[AoMythology]

Maybe they closed it down as soon as Zabuza took an alternate route. :sisi:

 

[Altered Nova]

If you consider the Itachi Shinden book canon (haven't read the book, going by Narutopedia article), then Itachi fought against Kiri genin during his chuunin exam, which means that Kiri still had genin about two years before the Kyuubi attack.

Personally I'm gonna go with it being an error.

Maybe they closed it down as soon as Zabuza took an alternate route. :sisi:

Can't be. The Demon Bros who worked for Zabuza had academy graduation ages listed in the first databook that would have had them graduating from the academy four years after Zabuza slaughtered his classmates.

 

[Knyght]

When Kakashi says he doesn't have a lot of chakra, does he just mean that in general or do you think he's saying that because of how much chakra his Sharingan uses up?

 

[AoMythology]

When Kakashi says he doesn't have a lot of chakra, does he just mean that in general or do you think he's saying that because of how much chakra his Sharingan uses up?

I think that he has below average reserves, for a Jounin.

 

[Knyght]

Regardless I'm wondering if this assessment accomodates the Sharingan or not. Is he saying he doesn't have much chakra and the Sharingan uses a lot of it, or is he saying he doesn't have much chakra because the Sharingan uses a lot of it?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

I'd go both.

 

[Knyght]

After Sakura completes the Strength of a Hundred Seal, does her strength boost come from her consciously using more chakra in her punches because she knows she has a near-inexhaustible supply ready? Or did completing the seal give her that boost in itself somehow?

And when Shizune said that Sakura had been continuously amassing chakra over three years, do you think she meant she was constantly storing a part of her chakra into the seal or more like she was storing a portion of her chakra in it per day?

 

[AoMythology]

I've got a question too - what do you guys think that the graduation exam of Konoha included? Onscreen, we only see the Bunshin, IIRC, but that must have been only the ninjutsu part. What else do you think it contained?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

After Sakura completes the Strength of a Hundred Seal, does her strength boost come from her consciously using more chakra in her punches because she knows she has a near-inexhaustible supply ready? Or did completing the seal give her that boost in itself somehow?

It comes by NOT diverting an apparently sizeable amount of her chakra in her seal.
Basically, pre-completed seal she had only, like, 30% of her actual chakra capacity available because everything else was continuously fed to the Seal.
So she had to save as much as chakra as possible.

Now she can use her full chakra capacity

And when Shizune said that Sakura had been continuously amassing chakra over three years, do you think she meant she was constantly storing a part of her chakra into the seal or more like she was storing a portion of her chakra in it per day?

It was obviously a continued effort. I'm going to bet she would had to start from zero if she ever stopped... though I wonder if that means she was deviating her chakra subconsciously even when sleeping or fainted.

 

[Knyght]

Hmmm, I'm less convinced. I originally assumed the same but I don't like the implications of how that works.

Partly because it relies on Sakura somehow supplying the chakra regardless of what state she's in whether she's sleeping, injured or knocked unconscious which is hard to believe. Partly because she was working on it at the potential expense of her life, the lives of her comrades and her patients by deliberately withholding her chakra for jutsu.

And Shizune says she was doing it continuously which can also mean that it occurred at regular intervals every time. The act of storing that chakra can be where the delicate chakra control is required as well as ensuring the seal doesn't lose what it has stored to make it reset.

I've got a question too - what do you guys think that the graduation exam of Konoha included? Onscreen, we only see the Bunshin, IIRC, but that must have been only the ninjutsu part. What else do you think it contained?

Well, I'll say what I think it should be which isn't necessarily what it would be. Though it can be hard to tell considering just how ignorant Naruto is.

First would be written tests on subjects that aren't specifically related to ninja such as maths, language, geography, history. Things they need to learn to avoid being too ignorant of general knowledge.

Then written tests on subjects specifically for ninja like how chakra works, what the different types of jutsu are, how to identify different weapons, who are the past Hokaes and which division in Konoha does what.

Finally the practical exams. The spar with one another or the teacher with taijutsu, throw shurikens at target, dispel a basic genjutsu and then successfully perform each of the ninja taught at the academy.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Partly because she was working on it at the potential expense of her life, the lives of her comrades and her patients by deliberately withholding her chakra for jutsu.

I'm going to guess that's the actually hard part. To manage to make the seal without letting anybody die.
It's unlikely she wouldn't simply stop charging the seal if she really needed more chakra to save somebody.

Onscreen, we only see the Bunshin, IIRC, but that must have been only the ninjutsu part

Iwabee, who is apparently at least as ignorant as Naruto was, states he would have already a Genin if the Academy worked like it did during Naruto's time.
Which suggests the Practical Parts are the only ones that are necessary to pass.

Naruto, by his own experience, saw how stupid that was and upgraded the Academy curriculum so a Genin would have at least SOME knowledge.

 

[Altered Nova]

Spoiler

"But the last two times this day came around, you flunked every course you'd taken in the secret arts."

I'm not really sure what Iruka means by "flunked every course." Was Naruto tested on multiple subjects in his previous two attempts at the graduation finals and he failed all of the tests? If so, why does the third exam apparently only involve one jutsu?

Spoiler

Similarly, what's with this later scene where Naruto is absolutely shocked to discover that the test involves doppelgangers? Was he not asked to make a clone during the two graduation finals that he had previous failed?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Naruto was really bad at EVERYTHING except Taijutsu.

Given he still couldn't make a decent henge of Sarutobi, at least one of the previous exams was based on it and he flunked.

 

[Altered Nova]

That flashback where he couldn't make a decent henge of Sarutobi was when he was like six years old though. He clearly fixed that problem by the time he graduated considering his invention of the SEXY NO JUTSU. So he should have been able to easily pass a henge test.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Oiroke is a FAILURE, academically.

Henge during Academy is supposed to replicate another person's look, not make up a brand-new persona.
He DID get better, as seen by his Sasuke impersonation. You sure the Sarutobi henge was when he was just 6?

 

[Altered Nova]

Oiroke is a failure technically, but it's obvious he must be skilled enough to transform into a specific person if he can transform into a wholly original one. Iruka even yelled at him that he was "wasting his talent" in the first chapter.

I recall someone saying something along the lines of "you've been in the academy for a whole year and still can't make a proper henge?" when he failed to transform properly into Hiruzen, but for the life of my I can't find the manga source for that flashback. I'll keep looking and get back to you when I find the correct chapter.

 

[Knyght]

The Sexy Jutsu is only a failure in the sense that Iruka's specific request was for Naruto to transform into a copy of him at the time. In itself, the jutsu works exactly as intended.

Naruto was unable to successfully perform the Transformation Jutsu after three years at the Academy (or by his third year according to the original translation) but he was perfectly capable at it by the time he graduated.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Oiroke is a failure technically, but it's obvious he must be skilled enough to transform into a specific person if he can transform into a wholly original one.

I don't agree.

Replicating a specific person required PRECISION. The weapon pouch on the right side must be on the right side, else Sasuke notices you aren't Naruto and you give away a potential advantage.

Making up a completely new person does not require precision. The person is made-up, who is to say they should wear their pouch on the left or right? Especially when the new person is just naked.

Basically, Naruto got a grasp on the technique but didn't put the necessary effort to focus on the details, probably because his chronic lack of mental discipline.


So, yeah. ACADEMICALLY Oiroke is a complete failure because it fails to show you studied correctly the target you were supposed to replace. Congratulations on killing your whole team.

 

[Altered Nova]

I get the point you are making, but it's kind of moot since as both Knight and yourself have already pointed out, Naruto was perfectly capable of copying somebody correctly by his final year in the academy. So it's unlikely he ever failed a henge test.

I want to resolve the issue of Naruto's having failed two previous graduation, since he obviously hasn't been held back because he's still the same age as his graduation peers.

Could he have attempted to take the graduation test early, similar to how almost all of the adult ninja graduated much younger than the 12 rookies of Naruto's generation? If so, why don't any of Naruto's prodigy peers take the final early?

Could Iruka have forced Naruto to take multiple mock exams to try and help him prepare for the real thing? If so, why is Naruto so shocked that the test involved creating clones?

Could it be that the exam actually involved three separate tests administered over several days, one for each of the three "core" e-rank jutsu taught in the academy (substitution, transformation, clones), and we are only shown the final of the three exams in the manga? This makes the most sense to me (why would they only test the students on one of the three basic jutsu that form the foundation of all ninjutsu?) but I have a hard time believing that Naruto failed the substitution and transformation tests. Clones are the only one of those three techniques he's ever been shown or said to have trouble performing.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Naruto was perfectly capable of copying somebody correctly by his final year in the academy.

Which rules out him failing it PREVIOUS years... how?

Could he have attempted to take the graduation test early,

Most likely.

If so, why don't any of Naruto's prodigy peers take the final early?

Most likely lack of interest in graduating earlier than their classmates.
The only other one who could have had motivation to graduate earlier was Sasuke, and it's likely either his legal guardian, the Academy or the Hokage forbid it because a number of reasons. Hell, it's perfectly possible Sasuke himself did chose not because he believed to learn everything he could from the Academy.


Likewise, the Exam is most likely a random Academy-rank ninjutsu so the students are forced to understand they must apply themselves on all of them during the year(s?). It's partially a character-filter, to get rid of those who cannot even understand "if you don't know which one they'll ask, you need to train hard in all"