The New Order

[GenocideHeart]

By the way, I find it funny how many, many fics automatically assume Serenity is EARTH's ruler.

MOON princess, remember? She can have the lifeless dustball, for all I care. With her 1337 magical powers, I'm sure she can make her own kingdom there, and anyone who falls for her propaganda is welcome to GTFO and follow her there.

Mamoru is better ruler material than she is, anyway. He's not a brainless idealist, actually has common sense and uses it, and calls her out several times on her letting her feelings cloud her mind and dictate her actions, which is phenomenally bad form for a ruler.

And if Mamoru absolutely WANTS to marry her, he's welcome to do it, but if he thinks anyone and everyone will automatically accept her... well... remember how the marriage between Charles and camilla Parker-Bowles went? Or how 'accepting' people were of Lady Diana's affair with Al-Fayed?

Yeah, that didn't pan over well with the people, did it? Let's do the sensible thing and not assume that just because the boss marries some floozy from the Moon, everyone will immediately accept her. Not even GOD can get everyone to accept him, to think that Usagi could is laughable at best.

Rant over for today.

 

[Oni_kawaii]

So, the question is... would people buy into a utopia.

The leader is voted for; this tends to go to Usagi due to her being charismatic and such, who tends to work for the people.

Life-span for citizens is increased at least by 10 times; assuming people have an average life-span of 100 years (it's less generally).

No apparent global conflicts. At least wars and such.

And you're not being made to join.

So when she has all nations under her rule what happens to those who don't want to join?

Heres a hint their descendants later became the the antagonists after chibi-usa.

The unification won't be bloodless and some nation will start using N.B.C. warfare to put a stop to it.

 

[Ordo]

Moreover, I love how you assume the Universe would just lie there for us to stink up. Why assume we are the only race in the universe? More importantly, why assume other races would be peaceful, and more importantly, something that won't wipe the lot of humanity out on the spot?

I made no such assumption. I just said we could accomplish wonders if we weren't shooting at each other. I fully believe that humanity is capable of making great leaps and strides in knowledge and understanding without constantly fighting one another. Also, I have made no assumptions about any alien races. However, a unified humanity is in a far better position to deal with sentient non-terrestrial hostile life-forms. Just because we're now unified dosen't mean we won't knock down any hostile aliens who make the mistake of messing with our species.

Not to mention that given how humans have this habit of poking their noses where they shouldn't, I'm betting it's a matter of time before they release some kind of Chthonian horror so godawful, even Chaos himself would be appalled and terrified by it. Enjoy waking up Azathoth.

Pssh, if we release it, we can stuff it back in the hole it came from. We are humans. Our legend shall spread throughout the stars, and our will and drive shall allow us to, not just overcome any obstacle, but bust right through it!

...yeah, this topic annoys me, especially certain posts in it...

No one said unification would be easy, peaceful, or even bloodless. The malcontents who fear change, who are unable to let go of the old ways, who are so suspicious of anything new will use all their power and skill to prevent it. I know the vile depths humans can sink to, but I also know of the heights of glory we are capable of. At the end of the day, I trust our better nature to eventually win out.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Just pray the dissidents aren't extremists. When the whole world is your target, the temptation to be both avengers and martyrs becomes huge, and I wouldn't be surprised if global bacteriological warfare started to be used. Stopping a bigass beam of magic is one thing - stopping a few billion trillion genetically modified bacteria and viruses released in the air, water and soil specifically to kill everything humanoid on Earth? A lot less likely.

And yes, should a global rule come around, things may well come to that.

 

[GenocideHeart]

No one said unification would be easy, peaceful, or even bloodless. The malcontents who fear change, who are unable to let go of the old ways, who are so suppicious of anything new will use all their power and skill to prevent it. I know the vile depths humans can sink to, but I also know of the heights of glory we are capable of. At the end of the day, I trust our better nature to eventually win out.

We had roughly 140,000 years of history as Homo Sapiens to let our better nature win out. It didn't.

You are a complete and utter optimist for thinking it ever will. Especially in less than one generation.

Also, what heights of glory? Mankind's history is littered with petty actions, thievery, betrayal, murder, callous disregard for others, superiority complexes and self-righteous conviction. Like, for example, the concept that humans are the peak of evolution. Never mind that without our tools, we'd be food at best. Everything we accpmplished we owe to external factors and artifice. Other species accomplished their position with nothing but their body and strength.

And even our supposed 'superior intelligence' is questionable. If we actually were intelligent, we'd never have made nukes. Or used them. Or basically made our planet a dumpster with total disregard for **every other living thing on it**.

Who says a human life is worth more than a nonhuman's anyway? If I had to choose between saving my beloved dog and some schmuck I've never seen before, I'll let the schmuck drown and save my dog. He was always there for me, which is more than I can say for the rest of the human race, ESPECIALLY its ruling class. His life would be worth far, far more to me than any other human's, besides maybe my mom's.

I don't see any heights of glory. I only see moments where humans were less assholish than usual, but still assholes too absorbed in their nonexistent superiority. Yeah, gloat about how we are THE BESTEST on Earth. Then watch as Random Bacteria #214786358365 kills us dead in a matter of hours no matter how much we try to defeat the smallest, least evolved lifeform on this planet.

Not so big anymore, are we? What this race needs is not heights of glory or any such shit, what it needs is a massive injection of humility, the more brutal the better to drive the point home.

As it is, I lack respect for the human race as a whole and am mostly ashamed to be one. For that reason, I crack the fuck up at any work of fiction that even IMPLIES someone could globally rule such a selfish, arrogant race. They'd just be setting themselves up for some dick with more ruthlessness and political know-how to sweep the rug from under them and kick them out, realistically.

Even the GEoM only managed it through ruthless indoctrination, and he's essentially a God in a flesh cage by the time WH40k rolls around. That's the only kind of language we actually LISTEN to. Anything else is lost on us after a little while.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

By the way, I find it funny how many, many fics automatically assume Serenity is EARTH's ruler.

MOON princess, remember? She can have the lifeless dustball, for all I care. With her 1337 magical powers, I'm sure she can make her own kingdom there, and anyone who falls for her propaganda is welcome to GTFO and follow her there.

King Endymion says she ascended to Queen and she took over at 22. He said nothing about himself that's why we assume that. The Moon Kingdom was revived and becomes part of earth anyway. Remember Chibi-Usa and the amazoness quartet goes to school there.

Mamoru is better ruler material than she is, anyway. He's not a brainless idealist, actually has common sense and uses it, and calls her out several times on her letting her feelings cloud her mind and dictate her actions, which is phenomenally bad form for a ruler.

We are so not talking about the same Mamoru. You have to be using anime because Mamoru has never callled her out in the manga. He's her cheerleader in the manga and pretty much says her love for others and earth is pretty much the sole reason they are still all alive. Mamoru doesn't have a independant bone in his body ever since he started dating her.

Name that chapter now please.

Edit: Also IIRC didn't Yaten mention that this Galaxy was different was because it was older than everywhere else and that it had the most growth. The rest of the universe was pretty young and kept dying out before it could it reach it's full potential. That's why Galaxia and Chaos had to be stopped by this galaxy. The rest of the Galaxy also all owe Usagi their continued survival and with that lovefest she had in the Cauldron she befriended every leader of every other planet in this galaxy.

Hell, the rest of the Galaxy recognizes Usagi and Mamoru as the leader of earth when the Silver Moon Crystal was born according to Kakyuu.

 

[GenocideHeart]

We are so not talking about the same Mamoru. You have to be using anime because Mamoru has never callled her out in the manga. He's her cheerleader in the manga and pretty much says her love for others and earth is pretty much the sole reason they are still all alive. Mamoru doesn't have a independant bone in his body ever since he started dating her.

That's because falling in love notoriously lobotomizes modern men.

Which is probably the only reason why men don't go all caveman on women for some of the shit they pull, come to think of it. If we were still Neanderthal, first sign of a feminazi/soccermom/yaoifangirly movement would be swiftly met with the business end of a club. :sisi:

And in all fairness, SOME women could benefit from the Neanderthal treatment. Rabid yaoi fangirls in particular. They want man-love? Let's see what Caveman McNeanderthal over there has to say--

*BLUDGEON* *dragging sounds*

Yeah, sounds about right. :snigger:

 

[Ordo]

We are so not talking about the same Mamoru. You have to be using anime because Mamoru has never callled her out in the manga. He's her cheerleader in the manga and pretty much says her love for others and earth is pretty much the sole reason they are still all alive. Mamoru doesn't have a independant bone in his body ever since he started dating her.

Sorry SxU it has to be done.

A Tsundere: I really like how much power you have over Mamoru, Sailor Moon.

SM: (blinks) Who are you?

Tsundere: My name is Akane Tendo and I must say the way youÆve broken Mamoru is a work of art! I mean heÆs completely whipped!

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

Go read the Bible. Specifically the part about the Apocalypse. There is ONE female figure in it, and it's quite clearly evil, possesses magical powers and is capable of seducing men to its side, literally.

Yeah, Usagi will fly over REAL well with Christians. As a servant of the Antichrist, that is.? :rofl:

EDIT:

Extra Note: For those who think weÆll be idle without internal conflict. I disagree, once weÆve stopped shooting at each other, we can finally dedicate time and resources to exploring the universe at large. I mean how much do we really know? What wonders can we create once we are no longer killing one another on a daily basis, or wasting precious time, power, and resources in constant warfare?

Already done so. But I think that you heavily ignoring Sailor Moon canon here GH. Keep in mind that going by the manga that Usagi is not only shown growing into a highly charismatic leader and is supposed to have such a pure soul that is could be sensed from across the galaxy. Yeah you're going to get a few people calling the senshi witches but vast majority not so much.

Also public of SM!Earth has already known about the senshi's existence sense the first arc and public reaction toward them has been pretty good.

The greatest progress humankind experienced was always during wartime. It's a simple fact that wars helped us as a race advance a lot more than peacetime did.

Your argument is null and void.

Moreover, I love how you assume the Universe would just lie there for us to stink up. Why assume we are the only race in the universe? More importantly, why assume other races would be peaceful, and more importantly, something that won't wipe the lot of humanity out on the spot?

Not to mention that given how humans have this habit of poking their noses where they shouldn't, I'm betting it's a matter of time before they release some kind of Chthonian horror so godawful, even Chaos himself would be appalled and terrified by it. Enjoy waking up Azathoth.

...yeah, this topic annoys me, especially certain posts in it...

Except you know that Chaos was supposed to be the ultimate evil of Sailor Moon universe so that's pretty much doubtful.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

Just pray the dissidents aren't extremists. When the whole world is your target, the temptation to be both avengers and martyrs becomes huge, and I wouldn't be surprised if global bacteriological warfare started to be used. Stopping a bigass beam of magic is one thing - stopping a few billion trillion genetically modified bacteria and viruses released in the air, water and soil specifically to kill everything humanoid on Earth? A lot less likely.

And yes, should a global rule come around, things may well come to that.

Umm... GH that's exactly what the Blackmoon Clan was supposed to be in canon. And frankly with her future knowledge of how THAT turns out I doubt that Usagi will make the same mistake of letting them run off to Nemesis like she did in canon.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Already done so. But I think that you heavily ignoring Sailor Moon canon here GH. Keep in mind that going by the manga that Usagi is not only shown growing into a highly charismatic leader and is supposed to have such a pure soul that is could be sensed from across the galaxy. Yeah you're going to get a few people calling the senshi witches but vast majority not so much.

Just like the Jews recognized the holiness of the Son of God, right?

...oh wait. They had him crucified and reviled because despite him practicing miracles, curing the sick, preaching around and having a holy aura intense enough that even sinners could feel it, they didn't believe he was the son of god.

You massively overestimate Usagi's charisma and underestimate human bigotry and stupidity. Especially Christians, who haven't exactly shown themselves to be tolerant of others over time.

And the moment a religion opposes her, Serenity's dreams of a peaceful world are finished. Religious issues carry tremendous grudges for very, very long times. Just look at the 2000 years old feud between Jews and Muslims.

Territorial/national disputes are nearly as bad. India and Pakistan over Kashmir? China over Taiwan's independence? Russia over damn near every satellite state it has? Georgia anyone?

Serenity's is a pipe dream. She will realize soon enough that her dream of an Empire of Earth is impossible. The best thing she could do is take control of the United Nations and make them actually relevant in the grand scheme of Earth's powers. Anything else will just get half the world on her case, and she WILL have to cause a bloodbath to resolve the situation.

Trying to make a single empire is doomed to fail.

Except you know that Chaos was supposed to be the ultimate evil of Sailor Moon universe so that's pretty much doubtful.

Who said anything about evil? I'm pretty sure the Great Old Ones aren't evil in the true sense of the word, anyway. They just don't care about humans because they amount more or less to amoebas or something equally insignificant to them.

I mean, Chaos? Take Azathoth. Just it regaining its sanity is supposed to spell doom for the universe, not even it intentionally doing a damn thing. Old Ones are on a completely different level of scary. They aren't terrifying because they are evil, they are terrifying because they are something so incomprehensible, foreign, alien and uncaring, minds collapse just from a brief look at them.

Chaos was scary because it was evil. Something like Cthulhu would be scary at a much more primeval level. Those things are called HORRORS for a reason. Especially since it's implied they literally ignore the laws of Nature. Death has no effect on them, time is wholly irrelevant, and their mere presence horrifyingly rapes the laws of physics... Chaos, for all that it was pure evil, still was something that could be comprehended. Old Ones... are alien to this universe.

Just sayin'...

 

[Tsuki_CB]

Go read the Bible. Specifically the part about the Apocalypse. There is ONE female figure in it, and it's quite clearly evil, possesses magical powers and is capable of seducing men to its side, literally.

That female figure is a metaphor for the government/religion that will be in place in the end times.

Basically it's saying that when the Anti Christ comes there will be one government/religion that will mirror Babylon, or Rome, and every nation will be involved with her in some way/ it comes out as sin and adultery in the metaphor.

As for the Anti Christ himself...well the majority of people are going to be fooled by him.

Christians that don't believe in the Rapture believe he'll look like what everybody thinks Jesus looks like.

Anyway as for this so called new world spanning empire that the rabbit is building...

I'm not sure what I would do. I think I would kinda like to take the opposite view position so I can get paid and housed just for playing Devil's Advocate.

But the U.S. citizen in me says FUCK USAGI AND HER WORLD PEACE! I LIVE IN THE USA BITCH!

That being said I guess I just gave some weight to some others in this thread.

Bah forget it I vote for Lelouch, let him deal with the crazy blond.

 

[David Alan Abramczyk]

Well, I've had a bit of a think over this, and I have a few ideas. Understand I'm in no way cogniscant of politics and such; I'm just making it up as I go along.

My thoughts is that the best way to integrate New Zealand into Serenity's faction is sort of like what the British did with Hong Kong at the end of the lease: a joint provisional authority between the New Zealand Government and a similar elected body from Crystal Tokyo, overseen by both the Governer-General (as representative of HM Queen Elizabeth II) and a figure of similar status from Crystal Tokyo, whom over an extended period of let us say 10 to 15 years, will align New Zealand's policies to allow for the smooth integration into Crystal Tokyo.

Globally though, it might be best to follow the example of the Earth Alliance in Babylon 5; individual voting blocs, each having equal representation in a World Parliament.

 

[Delta Green Friendly]

The greatest progress humankind experienced was always during wartime. It's a simple fact that wars helped us as a race advance a lot more than peacetime did.

Your argument is null and void.

Moreover, I love how you assume the Universe would just lie there for us to stink up. Why assume we are the only race in the universe? More importantly, why assume other races would be peaceful, and more importantly, something that won't wipe the lot of humanity out on the spot?

Not to mention that given how humans have this habit of poking their noses where they shouldn't, I'm betting it's a matter of time before they release some kind of Chthonian horror so godawful, even Chaos himself would be appalled and terrified by it. Enjoy waking up Azathoth.

...yeah, this topic annoys me, especially certain posts in it...

Except you know that Chaos was supposed to be the ultimate evil of Sailor Moon universe so that's pretty much doubtful.

Azathoth isn't evil. He is.

Beyond mortal morality, beyond good and evil. The Blind, Idiot God cannot be qualified so easily. He is all things, for all is born of his substance and his maddened dreams. The Daemon Sultan at the center of all realities, that seething, nuclear chaos in the middle of all things, is no more evil then the ocean itself.

And when he wakes, all shall die as his dreams fade away. So is the fate of all universes.

The closest to malignant evil that can be seen in an Outer God or Great Old One is that of Nyarlathotep, the Black Pharaoh, the Crawling Chaos, the Herald of Azathoth. He alone willfully and consciously torments mortals. And even then, sometimes he aids them to further his own plans. No true Good and Evil. At most, Order versus Chaos, and even then...

All is Chaos.

EDIT: Also you have Yog-Sothoth, who knows the Gate and its Key, is the Gatekeeper and the Key and the Gate, whom is the very barriers between dimensions and universes as well as Time, yet not. God of sorcerers and warlocks, he alone, apart for Nyarlathotep, seems to be capable of communicating with humans coherently. Yet he seeks to enter this dimension and bring it to ruin for purposes unknown to us.

And Shub-Niggurath, the Dark Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Youngs. The very embodiment, if it can be called such, of the inevitable cycle of birth, death and rebirth, she/he/it is both the most caring and the most uncaring of the Outer Gods, she values life and death, yet either condemns those who meet her/him/it with either decay and death or an unending life filled with horrible mutations after eating them whole.

There is no morality. Things are and exist. And so it was, is and shall forever be. Evil cannot be defeated, for it never existed in the first place.?

-----

The best Humanity could do in terms of a United Empire, is the way of the Imperium of Man under the God-Emperor during the Great Crusade. Ruthless authority, unmatchable strength and unquestionable doctrine. And even then people rebel against it. Still the Imperium, in a Galaxy where Humanity is the dominant species and constantly under attack, has managed what no other Empire has managed, keep more then 90% of Humanity under it's direct control.

Every other polis in the similar circumstances has problems holding more then 50% of Humanity together, mostly because it's almost wired in our genes to try every possible way to survive and controlling such chaos becomes quickly impossible.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Also you have Yog-Sothoth, who knows the Gate and its Key, is the Gatekeeper and the Key and the Gate, whom is the very barriers between dimensions and universes as well as Time, yet not. God of sorcerers and warlocks, he alone, apart for Nyarlathotep, seems to be capable of communicating with humans coherently. Yet he seeks to enter this dimension and bring it to ruin for purposes unknown to us.

If I may nitpick, Y'golonac is also a Mythos creature that can communicate with humans, although given how depraved it is, I'm not sure anyone would WANT to hold a conversation with it. Hell, even being in its presence is bad news, since it's basically what Slaanesh was based on. Although I'm not sure which is worse...

Y'golonac is a Great Old One and is the god of perversion and depravity  not just "average" human perversions or depravities, but any that can be conceived of by a sapient being (sane or otherwise). His demeanor is much like that of Nyarlathotep, but he is much more perverse and sadistic. Y'golonac can sometimes be summoned merely by reading his name (not necessarily aloud; just reading it is sufficient) in the Revelations of Glaaki.

Y'golonac is imprisoned behind a wall of bricks in unknown ruins. His true form is uncertain, but when he possesses a human host to manifest, he appears as a grotesquely obese man, lacking a head or neck, with a mouth in the palm of each hand.

Unlike Lovecraft's deities, Y'golonac is clearly capable of understanding humans, to the point of being able to conduct a conversation in English through his human host. Y'golonac seeks humans who read perverse and forbidden literature to become his servants. When Y'golonac is summoned, he offers to grant the summoner the dubious honor of becoming his priest, or simply kills him for food.

 

[biigoh]

I... recall a Mythos/Sailor Moon cross where Pluto has ties to Yog-Sothoth. ^_^

 

[Delta Green Friendly]

Also you have Yog-Sothoth, who knows the Gate and its Key, is the Gatekeeper and the Key and the Gate, whom is the very barriers between dimensions and universes as well as Time, yet not. God of sorcerers and warlocks, he alone, apart for Nyarlathotep, seems to be capable of communicating with humans coherently. Yet he seeks to enter this dimension and bring it to ruin for purposes unknown to us.

If I may nitpick, Y'golonac is also a Mythos creature that can communicate with humans, although given how depraved it is, I'm not sure anyone would WANT to hold a conversation with it. Hell, even being in its presence is bad news, since it's basically what Slaanesh was based on. Although I'm not sure which is worse...

Y'golonac is a Great Old One and is the god of perversion and depravity û not just "average" human perversions or depravities, but any that can be conceived of by a sapient being (sane or otherwise). His demeanor is much like that of Nyarlathotep, but he is much more perverse and sadistic. Y'golonac can sometimes be summoned merely by reading his name (not necessarily aloud; just reading it is sufficient) in the Revelations of Glaaki.

Y'golonac is imprisoned behind a wall of bricks in unknown ruins. His true form is uncertain, but when he possesses a human host to manifest, he appears as a grotesquely obese man, lacking a head or neck, with a mouth in the palm of each hand.

Unlike Lovecraft's deities, Y'golonac is clearly capable of understanding humans, to the point of being able to conduct a conversation in English through his human host. Y'golonac seeks humans who read perverse and forbidden literature to become his servants. When Y'golonac is summoned, he offers to grant the summoner the dubious honor of becoming his priest, or simply kills him for food.

I was concentrating on the Outer Gods, but it is true that there are Great Old Ones, or other "types" (if they can truly be classified) of eldricht horrors can communicate with humans.

"That" one being a particularly depraved example.

EDIT: And so she should, biigoh, so she should.

RE-EDIT: To state my opinion on the OP, I would simply fight. By words, by acts, by spirit, by arms. I would fight. I would swear Feanor's Oath and never stop fighting. I would defy that tyrannos and die like Fingolfin. I would stand and fight, even thought it might not be the best choice, even thought it is hopeless.

Pride has made Man rise above the animal. Pride will be my strength, and the cause of my fall. For my own pride, for that of my fathers, for that of my ancestors, for that of the Franks, the Celts, the Romans, the Greeks and all others people that forged Europe and the countries descended from her in the Americas. For that History written in the blood of heroes. For that burning pride and hate. For the wisdom and rage of thousands of years of war. For the culture and knowledge gathered through the ages. For my hate of tyranny, whatever it's form or comeliness. For my Humanity.

Let her come. I will stand, ever defiant. My pride will accept nothing else.