Naruto Things in fanfics that doesn't make sense to me.

[Mr. Mysterious]

Still why not tell Naruto. From what I have seen he has never let his mouth throw away secrets.

Exactly... from what you've seen. What we know and what the characters know are two very different things. A lot of people on this board seem to like to ignore that fact, if it goes against something they want to happen or think should have happened... or maybe they just haven't considered it, I dunno.

But what reason do those who know who Naruto's parents are have to think that Naruto wouldn't run out and tell everyone who his father was, if he thought it would make people acknowledge him and increase his chances of becoming Hokage? What secrets has he had to throw away, really?

The only thing he hasn't told people about is the Kyuubi, and really... why would he want to? I can't much think of anything else he has that he's kept secret, or needed to keep secret.

Also, Iwa came out short at the war. They lost, true konoha suffered from kyuubi, but it's Konoha is still considered strong. So don't thikn Iwa would go to war.

They lost, from what I remember, because the Yondaime was a terror to fight against. He's dead now, and no one else, that we know of, has demonstrated his ability to be all over a battlefield. A second war wouldn't be nearly as costly to them.

And as you also you pointed out about the kleptomanic clan #1, they are ninjas,? taking lifes is part of life they live.

If they wouldn't hold a grudge against people stealing their jutsus, would they really hold a grudge against the son of the man who plade a major part in a war?

Stealing a technique is a far cry from stealing a life. Not comparable in the slightest.

Would not hav been to hard to fake his death though. After the massacre only Itachi know Sasuke was still alive.

Yes it would. When the kid with a duck's ass on his head who just happens to look like Sasuke shows up at the Academy, someone is going to start to suspect something. He certainly wouldn't give up the dream of being a ninja when his entire motive in life has become killing his brother.

And I highly doubt Konoha is going to send the last loyal Sharingan user out of the village...

So they would have to keep him in the village and disguise him for years, or simply never let him out in public. All because some people might be annoyed that he could steal techniques? Seems like a lot of effort, for no real reason.

Keeping Naruto hidden because his father killed a lot of enemy shinobi during the war, on the other hand? Not a bad idea, especially since there isn't much effort that has to be put into doing it. "The Yondaime sealed the demon into this boy... oh, and for those who know he was having a child, his son died during his childbirth." Not a lot of effort there. :huh.:

To me in canon he doesn't seem to be hated by the shinobi.

There was certainly a crowd of ninja that was more than willing enough to kill him in the first issue. And while some might have been doing it because of the danger the scroll presented, that can't be claimed for all of them. Maybe not even most of them, though that's pretty much a matter of opinion.

Someone called out 'we should have killed him' and someone else called out 'get him before he releases the demon power.' Past tense... not 'we should kill him,' but 'we should have killed him.' And the reason was the 'demon power,' not 'the scroll.'

So yeah... he definitely has at least some ninja who hate him for what he is, and they wanted him dead. :huh.:

Sure he isn't their number #1 favourite guy, but he don't seem to be hated enough for them to ignore another village going in doing something to him.

They're willing to kill him, but not willing to allow another village to hurt him? <_< No, I don't buy that.

It seems it's pretty much only the villagers and parents who hates him.

Look at issue one (entire group of ninja), issue two (Ebisu). From there it kind of fades into the background, presumably to keep the tone a little more lighthearted, but still comes up in the occasional flashback. Hell, Ebisu didn't even start to respect/like him until issue 90. :huh.:

#1: You say that more modern training methods work. Fair enough; they might. But they're never shown, so the author would have to make them up, unless they want to use Kishimoto's Part 2 Kage Bunshin Retcon.

What's your point? The author actually has to be creative, so that excuses them being lazy and ignoring canon? No.

#2: Weights work. Old-fashioned? What the fuck does that matter? They get results. Do you think anyone else in the prelims, besides Gaara, could have withstood the full-out no-weights Five Gates assault from Lee?

The gates don't really have much to do with weights... especially since there are supposedly methods that are as good or better than weights, which could have made the gates more effective.

The only gates, it seems to me, that would have been affected were the ones that increased muscle usage to one hundred percent and probably the stamina gate. I don't see how it would have any effect on the others.

But again, the gates are a separate technique. What do they have to do with weights, or the fact that it doesn't make sense for people to be suggesting Naruto use weights? Like I said, if he comes up with the training regimen on his own... that's one thing.

If he's getting it from someone else, weights make no sense. And saying that they work and that the author would have to actually think for a second does not change that.

But Neji, possibly could have done it, since Lee did all that with the intention of fighting him... if he even let Lee open them in the first place, anyway. Naruto possibly, due to his healing abilities... all he'd really have to do is outlast Lee and be able to get back to his feet once it was over.

Once the gates were opened, it was pretty much over for Lee... it was only a matter of time, far as I can tell.

#3: Kakashi is a moron. His opinions mean precisely jack shit.

Right... a moron who made Sasuke as fast as Lee, in a month... and that was with him thinking weights are old-fashioned. So do you really think he used weights to do it? They don't show it, so I won't say you're wrong or right if you do... it just a matter of belief. But do you really think he did?

 

[nuclear death frog]

Couple things.

#1: You say that more modern training methods work. Fair enough; they might. But they're never shown, so the author would have to make them up, unless they want to use Kishimoto's Part 2 Kage Bunshin Retcon.

#2: Weights work. Old-fashioned? What the fuck does that matter? They get results. Do you think anyone else in the prelims, besides Gaara, could have withstood the full-out no-weights Five Gates assault from Lee?

#3: Kakashi is a moron. His opinions mean precisely jack shit.

One things to point out that not wearing weights works is by the fact that Sasuke got Lee speed in under 1 month during the exams. And nothing points to weights.

Assuke stole Lee's speed through The Almighty Deus-ex-Machigan. Kakashi had his own bared for Lee's entire buildup for the Gates; meaning he got the whole style. Assuke just used his own Sharingank to copy Kakashi and there you go. No one without the Almighty Eye would be able to do the same.

 

[Mr. Mysterious]

Sharingan steals techniques. Not speed. Otherwise Sasuke wouldn't have gotten his ass handed to him by Lee in their first fight. That's the worst logic I've ever seen.

 

[nuclear death frog]

Against Lee, Assuke only had his own Sharingan active for the Lotus, and not even the whole thing.

Kakashi is the only answer.

 

[ttestagr]

If Yondaime is Naruto's father, the only reasonable explanation for keeping it a secret is that the information is too close to Kyuubi. The people in the village didn't like him, in a village where being from high level families equals instant adoration. And despite Naruto knowing about Kyuubi, he never told anyone. It is possible that Naruto was told early on and didn't let anyone know because Sandaime explained that to him, and Kishimoto just didn't show it because he didn't want to bring that bit out too early.


Of course Kishimoto shit on that theory though when he had Sakura already know, but I consider that one of the greatest points of suck in Part 2 and is one of the first things I ignore.

 

[Mr. Mysterious]

Kakashi gave Sasuke the style... of that I have no doubt. But he had to earn the speed to use it.

I don't like Sasuke... he's probably one of the few people I can say I hate (and he was turning into a decent character, too). But your logic fails hard, and that's all there is to it.

 

[ttestagr]

Kakashi gave Sasuke the style... of that I have no doubt. But he had to earn the speed to use it.

I don't like Sasuke... he's probably one of the few people I can say I hate (and he was turning into a decent character, too). But your logic fails hard, and that's all there is to it.

You're semi wrong on this issue MM. One of the things about the sharingan is that it allows the user to push their limits so that they can do things they see, even if their ability isn't great enough to do it.

Its the only reason that Sasuke would have been able to dodge Haku's mirror attacks, but that is a plot hole in itself since we learn that speed is supposedly the sharingan's natural enemy.

 

[nuclear death frog]

Kakashi gave Sasuke the style... of that I have no doubt. But he had to earn the speed to use it.

I don't like Sasuke... he's probably one of the few people I can say I hate (and he was turning into a decent character, too). But your logic fails hard, and that's all there is to it.

How did he earn the speed then?

SOME MYSTERY METHOD THAT WE NEVER GET ONE GLIMPSE OF, or the Sharingan? And if that mystery method is so potent, why didn't Kakashi use it with Naruto during Wind Rasengan training; it would have been additional help.

Either Kakashi is completely biased in favor of the traitor, or he's a moron. Or it's something that only the traitor can do because of the Almighty Eye.

I say it comes down to the Eye, because not even I want to think that poorly of Kakashi. But he certainly doesn't come off well, almost no matter how you look at it.

 

[Amberion]

Stealing a technique is a far cry from stealing a life. Not comparable in the slightest.

Bah, I really need to put down all my thoughts and not just snippets of them.

Actually comparing Sasukes situation to Naruto is atleas to me comparable. Well unless ofcrouse the Uchihas stayed out of the war.

And you have to realize, peoples personal Jutsu they have made themself is sort of their lifes work. Imagine someone stealing something that took you ages to make.

Exactly... from what you've seen. What we know and what the characters know are two very different things. A lot of people on this board seem to like to ignore that fact, if it goes against something they want to happen or think should have happened... or maybe they just haven't considered it, I dunno.

But what reason do those who know who Naruto's parents are have to think that Naruto wouldn't run out and tell everyone who his father was, if he thought it would make people acknowledge him and increase his chances of becoming Hokage? What secrets has he had to throw away, really?

The only thing he hasn't told people about is the Kyuubi, and really... why would he want to? I can't much think of anything else he has that he's kept secret, or needed to keep secret.

True, we don't know since well, he hasn't had anything remotley positive to have as a secret. But then again it would be easely tested by just having the Hokage tell Naruto something and see if he could keep it to himself.

They lost, from what I remember, because the Yondaime was a terror to fight against. He's dead now, and no one else, that we know of, has demonstrated his ability to be all over a battlefield. A second war wouldn't be nearly as costly to them.

Yes he was a big part of the win. Yet I doubt 1 ninja could take out an entire village, even though he was the yondaime. So more people then him would be hated. /point Uchihas since they are potrade to be god amongs men.

Yes it would. When the kid with a duck's ass on his head who just happens to look like Sasuke shows up at the Academy, someone is going to start to suspect something. He certainly wouldn't give up the dream of being a ninja when his entire motive in life has become killing his brother.

And I highly doubt Konoha is going to send the last loyal Sharingan user out of the village...

So they would have to keep him in the village and disguise him for years, or simply never let him out in public. All because some people might be annoyed that he could steal techniques? Seems like a lot of effort, for no real reason.

Keeping Naruto hidden because his father killed a lot of enemy shinobi during the war, on the other hand? Not a bad idea, especially since there isn't much effort that has to be put into doing it. "The Yondaime sealed the demon into this boy... oh, and for those who know he was having a child, his son died during his childbirth." Not a lot of effort there. dunno.gif

Disguise is the answer. They are a ninja village, they are specilicing in that sort of thing.

Look at issue one (entire group of ninja), issue two (Ebisu). From there it kind of fades into the background, presumably to keep the tone a little more lighthearted, but still comes up in the occasional flashback. Hell, Ebisu didn't even start to respect/like him until issue 90. dunno.gif

Ebisu didn't hate him. Dislike yes, but I didn't see it as hate. And also, if the majority of the shinobi wanted him dead, I doubt even the sandaime could have ordered it otherwise without having to resign.

They're willing to kill him, but not willing to allow another village to hurt him? dry.gif No, I don't buy that.

I still don't think the sandaime could have been able to keep Naruto alive if not the majority of the ninja accepted him.

And forgot to say most ninja don't seem to hate him in my other post.

 

[Prince Charon]

shortly afterwards, the same character asks each of the genin in Team 7 a question about their goals. I'm sure that you can figure out who got what without my telling you.

ôIs it more important than you be the one to kill your brother, or just that he be dead?ö

ôWhat do you think the Hokage does?ö

ôUchiha... Uchiha Itachi is one of the five most dangerous missing-nins in the world. Someone out to kill a man like that... What do you think that heÆd be more interested in, a pretty face... or a strong kunoichi? An asset or an admirer? A lover... or a partner?ö

What fic is that?

 

[GenocideHeart]

Okay, one of you with the scanlations and/or official translation of Issue 1 do me a favor and doublecheck this.

In my version of Chapter 2, Sarutobi OUTRIGHT STATES that the ONLY ones who know Naruto has Kyuubi sealed in him are the ADULT SHINOBI who fought Kyuubi itself 12 years before.

Nowhere does it state that the villagers also hate him.

I'm starting to think that the 'all of Konoha wants Naruto dead' is a bunch of fanon bullcrap, which would also shoot down Mr. M's theory according to which Konoha would just stand there and watch someone try to assassinate Naruto. Because the civilians wouldn't know (and this would explain why Ichiraku doesn't dislike him), and theyd only see him as an annoying brat, but certainly not someone worthy of death.

Just a thought...

EDIT: Edited.

 

[Mr. Mysterious]

This is gonna be long. By the time I finish with responding to one, I end up responding to another. Yay for long posts!

You're semi wrong on this issue MM.á One of the things about the sharingan is that it allows the user to push their limits so that they can do things they see, even if their ability isn't great enough to do it.

Where does it say that? Gai says something about the 'Uchiha clan,' when Sasuke is about to do the Chidori on Gaara... but that's about it.

Its the only reason that Sasuke would have been able to dodge Haku's mirror attacks, but that is a plot hole in itself since we learn that speed is supposedly the sharingan's natural enemy.

No. He had already gotten as fast as Haku without the mirrors (Zabuza commented that he could keep up with Haku's speed), and then by increasing his speed with chakra he managed to put Haku on the defensive.

The problem seemed specifically to be, in the mirrors, that the attacks were so fast that couldn't see them in time to react. Most likely because he was using chakra to make himself faster. I think he sped up his body, but not his eyes, because if he had been able to get chakra to his eyes at that point, the Sharingan would have activated. Essentially, the body was willing, but the eyes weren't able... yet.

Once he could see... it wasn't much of a problem anymore. That's what I got out of all of it... not some weird 'power' of the Sharingan.

How did he earn the speed then?

SOME MYSTERY METHOD THAT WE NEVER GET ONE GLIMPSE OF

Yes. Gai flat out wonders out loud about it, asking what kind of training he did to come that far in a month. Kakashi then explains it... he had Sasuke practice Lee's style to gain the speed necessary to use the Chidori. In other words? KAKASHI FLAT OUT SAID HE HAD TO EARN THE DAMNED SPEED! You can't get much clearer than that.

And if that mystery method is so potent, why didn't Kakashi use it with Naruto during Wind Rasengan training; it would have been additional help.

It would have been a distraction Naruto didn't need, at the time? Naruto was actually outrunning him at one point PTS, so he couldn't really help him push the speed limit? It would have required Naruto to learn an entirely new taijutsu style to do it, thus slowing him down? Who knows? There are any number of possible, very valid, reasons.

It's not always so cut and dry.

Actually comparing Sasukes situation to Naruto is atleas to me comparable. Well unless ofcrouse the Uchihas stayed out of the war.

Whether or not they did, there has been no indication that they cleared entire battlefields almost single-handedly. The guy who can kill dozens of ninja in seconds, versus the clan whose ninja can fight maybe a small group of ninja, if they're really good? The Yondaime's legacy is going to overshadow the Uchiha every time.

And you have to realize, peoples personal Jutsu they have made themself is sort of their lifes work. Imagine someone stealing something that took you ages to make.

Not necessarily. Kakashi made his jutsu fairly early in his life... it isn't like he worked on it every day for eighty years, then had it ripped off in two seconds by an Uchiha. But if they really wanted to keep it a secret, they shouldn't have used it in front of the Uchiha, or anyone, for that matter. Lives, no matter how you cut it, are not comparable to jutsu.

True, we don't know since well, he hasn't had anything remotley positive to have as a secret. But then again it would be easely tested by just having the Hokage tell Naruto something and see if he could keep it to himself.

What could he tell him that would get him acknowledged and possibly make it easier for him to become Hokage? If you can think of something worthwhile, I'll entertain the notion. Otherwise... it's just too risky, without a better reason.

Yes he was a big part of the win. Yet I doubt 1 ninja could take out an entire village, even though he was the yondaime. So more people then him would be hated. /point Uchihas since they are potrade to be god amongs men.

Chiyo took down an entire fortress by herself. Sasori took out an entire country by himself. The Yondaime took out almost fifty ninjas singlehandedly, and that was just in one battle. Hate the guy who can probably take on a small group by himself, of the guy who can take out fifty nin pretty much alone... it's not a hard decision.

And the only Uchiha shown to be 'god among men,' so far, have been Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara. The rest were Konoha's police force, and were to a man killed by one of those three... alone. It's pretty clear, at least to me, that Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara are exceptions.

Disguise is the answer. They are a ninja village, they are specilicing in that sort of thing.

Yes, using Henge... something Sasuke may or may not have known at that point. He would also have to keep it up at all times, even if accidentally knocked unconscious or hurt... which seems to disrupt the technique. Not only that, he would have to break off any and all mannerisms that Sasuke had. He was a child, not even a genin yet. Genjutsu could be noticed and dispelled, ruining it one fell swoop.

Not to mention they would have to explain where the weird new kid came from, who just happens to have shown up at the same time as the Uchiha Massacre. Too many possible problems.

Ebisu didn't hate him. Dislike yes, but I didn't see it as hate. And also, if the majority of the shinobi wanted him dead, I doubt even the sandaime could have ordered it otherwise without having to resign.

I think if the Hokage gives an order, the loyal ninja, or at least most of them, will follow that order... despite their personal opinions. They might grumble about it, but I think they'll follow it.

And just before Ebisu first saw Naruto, the Hokage comments that the eyes of a person who hates someone are frighteningly cold. The next panel Ebisu shows up, and Naruto comments on 'those eyes again.' Ebisu hated him, or at least that's the implication.

I still don't think the sandaime could have been able to keep Naruto alive if not the majority of the ninja accepted him.

And I still think if the Hokage gives an order, the loyal ninja, or at least most of them, will follow that order... despite their personal opinions. They might grumble about it, but I think they'll follow it.

Okay, one of you with the scanlations and/or official translation of Issue 1 do me a favor and doublecheck this.

In my version of Chapter 2, Sarutobi OUTRIGHT STATES that the ONLY ones who know Naruto has Kyuubi sealed in him are the ADULT SHINOBI who fought Kyuubi itself 12 years before.

He does say the only ones who know were the Adult Shinobi. So 'know' could be a slight mistranslation to present instead of past tense. Or he could simply be saying that those who know were only the Adult Shinobi, but that changed. Regardless, that only the adult ninja currently know is pretty much destroyed by his following statements.

He goes on to say that the rule has been broken, and the violators severely punished... so the idea that the villagers can't possibly know is shot all to hell right there. It doesn't prove they know, but it does prove that the could.

But he then goes on to say the children don't know and that was the only thing that Naruto had going for him... nothing about the villagers not knowing, just the children.

Nowhere does it state that the villagers also hate him.

Actually, it sort of does. Sarutobi, in explaining about the Yondaime's wish for Konoha to see Naruto as a hero, 'But the adults of the village don't see Naruto this way.' So it seems that at some point, some shinobi blabbed... and it spread around the village.

I'm starting to think that the 'all of Konoha wants Naruto dead' is a bunch of fanon bullcrap, which would also shoot down Mr. M's theory according to which Konoha would just stand there and watch someone try to assassinate Naruto. Because the civilians wouldn't know (and this would explain why Ichiraku doesn't dislike him), and theyd only see him as an annoying brat, but certainly not someone worthy of death.

It may be fanon that all of Konoha wants Naruto dead, but that they know? Not really... there is plenty to suggest that they know, like the Sandaime's statements about the 'Adults of the village,' mentioned above.

 

[GenocideHeart]

And in both my version and the french scanlations it says just 'the adults'...

Don't you love translation mishaps? Thanks to differing poinions, a clear cut answer is once again impossible.

Granted, we can be quicker about it by throwing out the so-called 'official translation for the US', where it actually defines Naruto 'the fox's human form'... :sweat:

I'm torn. Should I laugh or should I cry?

By the way, just re-read that section.

Hokage says "The only ones who know ARE (not WERE) the adults that fought the fox back then". In both translations, to boot.

I'm assuming it use the PAST tense in yours? Because then, it's lovely. One translation is understandable, but two making the exact same mistake is a bit harder to swallow.

So yeah, it can be either way. And it would explain why Ichiraku and a couple more civilians we see at points seem clueless about Naruto's actual nature.

After all, Sarutobi only has control over the NINJA rumor mill, since he's the boss of the ninja as far as we can tell. He can't do a damn thing about CIVILIANS, though, unless you assume his power extends so far, in which case I question why he didn't have a civil war in his hands, given how the adult ninja, with few exceptions, seem hostile towards Naruto, and would probably join in any overthrow attempt if the general populace was of the same opinion.

You can say whatever about Sarutobi being 1337 god ninja, but one rule is always the same: alienating the general populace is the fastest way for a leader, regardless of their power, to find his head under the guillotine. History does teach that - a lot. And mob mentality is a nasty thing - loud stupidity is infectious, and enough rumors are almost as bad. And Sarutobi is an old fool if he thinks he can squash a rumor mill. He can't. No one can. Rumors will always find a way to spread, and as mentioned, given how much damage Kyuubi did, I can totally see a civil war erupt over Naruto's nature being known even from a simple rumor.

Wars started for a lot less. And it's not always the men in power who start them.

Just my $0.02. This particular detail has no proof that points either way, really. The only people we see openly talking about Naruto's nature are either ninja or parents of fresh genin, thus you can presume fairly that they are from ninja families, given Konoha's structure. So it makes sense someone old enough to have kids Naruto's age, and with ninja connections, would remember.

 

[GenocideHeart]

By the way, in the same page where Sandaime talks about how 'almost none of the adults' considers him a savior...

Right in the next panel, it shows a few adults with their kids.

One of them clearly wears a Jounin battle vest, and the other two wear ninja footwear, and waht looks like battle gear on the rest of their bodies. And one of the kids (maybe two) wears a headband.

Hmm... more and more hints to only the shinobi knowing. And the village being largely clueless, and only finding him annoying and rude.

Then again, most communities tend to isolate orphans... It makes sense, in a very sick and disturbing way. And when Naruto started pranking, I'm guessing his popularity dropped even lower.

 

[dowell]

Sorry about this ahead of time. Ignore it and it will go away.

Gravity Seals

Late afternoon. Another day of low rank missions has come to an end for the team 7 genin squad. Their jounin teacher no where in sight the three are finishing their last assignment for the day.

"Somebody tell me how washing the windows at the academy counts as training? I mean really when did we become janitors?" Said our favorite blonde pet carrier.

"Well we did have to climb the side of the building without disturbing the class, even if you couldnt we were able to." Intoned a pink headed sandbag.

"........................" Take a guess, come on, I dare you

Kakashi wandering aimlessly with a book spots the trio and walks up to them.

"Alright, looks like your done here. You can go home now. Ive got a speacil mission assigned to us tomorrow. Be at my apartment at O8 hundred hours tomorrow I'll give you the the details then."

"Whats it this time the Inuzuki clan need their dog houses cleaned? Or maybe you want us to scrub the trashcans around the training ground again. You disappeared 3 hours ago where were you while we were working?"

"I had a thing, at this place............................aw to hell with it just come to the apartment at 8 for the job. And bring lunches, it may take some time." *disapears into a cloud of leaves*


Sometime around 9:15 the next day.

"How does somebody show up late to their own home, I mean really." *bangs on the door with his fist repeatedly* "Hey we know your in there, open up. GET OUT OF BED< AND OPEN THE DAMN DOOR."

"Naruto keep your voice down there are other people in this building, and i doubt Kakashi sensei wants any trouble with his neighbors because you cant be quiet. Your a ninja for crying out loud." Quote the pink haird shrew.

"Sasuke back me up on this, he has to be in there. He could let us in right?"

"Drop it dobe, he'll be here when he gets here. Same as always." Returns to brooding over new ways to brood.

"Your all here, good, well come on inside ill tell you about todays mission." Leading the trio inside after further proving that he knows a thing or two about stealth even if he doesnt actually teach anybody.

"Where were you sensei? We've been waiting a wh................ O MY GOD. somebody trashed your apartment."

"No Sakura, I'm afraid im just not much of a house keeper. Todays mission is, cleaning my apartment."

"Damn it. All those boring lessons at the academy just to become a janitor. This job sucks. I wonder if there is anybody else that would be willing to hire me?"

Meanwhile in the Bat Cave,,,,,,,, Im mean Akatsuki's Hideout "Got any threes? No, go fish." Back to the crap still in progress.

"Your looking at this wrong Naruto, I've been a Nin for a long time now. In these rooms are the materials someone like myself have aquired for use in missions since I was your age." Reaching through a pile of moldy instant ramen cups his hand draws back with a post it note pad and holds it up for his students to see. "Now do you understand?" Smirking sagely.

"Place is filthy but organised, is what your trying to say?"

Blink Blink

"No Sakura, If you look closely each of the post it notes is actually a blast note. easier to carry several hundred with you, but they stick to your fingers alot. What im saying is. You three will clean this place up, while collecting all the assorted items that seem like nin equipment. End of the day, I'll grade you on how many tools you find versus trash."

"So you lost something in here, and you hope we can find it while cleaning this pig sty you live in?"

"Well yes, but this is a good training exercise besides that. As a nin you need to be able to spot and identify any equipment that your opponent may be carrying. From a cloth wrapped steel whip used as a belt to a 100 pound combat umbrella. You need to be able to spot them all."

"100 pound combat umbrella, what do you think this is a anime written by some hack manga writer?"

blink blink

"Uh, well you have till the end of the day to finish. And be sure to hold on to anything you belive might be actual items I may need."


Several hours later.

"I swear the more of this crap I pick up the more I wonder how were supposed to respect a sensei who cant even clean his own home."

Sakura walks past with a orange book hung over the end of a mop shes carrying at arms length. when she gets near the window she tries to flick it off the end of the handle several times before finally scrapping it off against the window sill. Before heading back into the bedroom she emerged from.

"I'm not cleaning that. You do it Naruto. Your a boy, you should be used to cleaning up that."

Sasuke sitting between several piles of various items is checking each to see if it might be a useful peice of equipment, or more proof that their sensei is a lazy bastard. A cylinder made of a dull grey metal stands out to his eyes. One end rounded, the other a series of sharpened edges in a stamp pattern. Along the side the markings say "Gravity Seal charge with chakra
then apply seal."

Inner mind of the emo "Gravity Seal? Must be a training device. Thats how he got so fast. The Seal must break down after the wound heals. If i start using this there is no way my brother is going to stand a chance. lets see how heavy it makes me."

With a little chakra being fed into the cylinder it begins to hum at a low frequency.

"I wonder how much it needs?"

Ding

"Alright, i guess that much. Well here we go."

Pressing the sharp end carefully to the center of his chest the resident genius begins feeling the strain of gravity increase gradually until.

3
2
1
Darwin Award time.

His skin bearing the Gravity Seal begins stretching gently at first as 5 times gravity is applied until the total finally reaches 50 times. At which point he skin splits ant tears from his body remenisint to a scene from a Hellraiser movie.

GAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHH

"What the hell is going on in here?" States the Usually not so prompt Jounin.

"Oh god oh god oh god oh god"

"What do we do sensei."

Walking carefuly to avoid the assorted fluids pooling in the floor Kakashi walks up to the flayed form of the future fink. Gently grasping the sides of the base of the neck and side of the head he snaps the neck of the currently former meat sack ceaseing its gurgling and whimpering.

"Ahhh my gravity seal, that brings back memories,"

"Why the hell would you have something like that? It killed Sasuke."

"No, I killed Sasuke. Though I'm sure he'd have thanked me at the time. Not the seal."

"Bu bu but sensei, why would tou have something like that here."

"It was part of my firld interogation kit when i was Anbu. You be amazed at how chatty people become after they see that happen to some one. Now if you'll excuse me i'll go call for a anbu cleanup unit and start the training accident paperwork."

Anbu central wet works division.

Nameless cannon fodder "Im telling you man I didnt join up to be a janitor."

Other Nameless cannon fodder " I hear ya, but just think in 6 months at the chunin finals we'll get to see another Uchiha compete. Itll be a great show. Hey phones ringing answer it ill be back in a minute."

 

[Prince Charon]

Anbu central wet works division.

Nameless cannon fodder "Im telling you man I didnt join up to be a janitor."

Other Nameless cannon fodder " I hear ya, but just think in 6 months at the chunin finals we'll get to see another Uchiha compete. Itll be a great show. Hey phones ringing answer it ill be back in a minute."

Should I feel bad about laughing when I read that?

 

[nuclear death frog]

Not with how utterly full of steaming horseshit the manga has become.

 

[drakensis]

What fic is that?

Teenage Genin Ninja Heros by Valles

 

[Mr. Mysterious]

I'm going to address your second post first.

By the way, in the same page where Sandaime talks about how 'almost none of the adults' considers him a savior...

Right in the next panel, it shows a few adults with their kids.

One of them clearly wears a Jounin battle vest, and the other two wear ninja footwear, and waht looks like battle gear on the rest of their bodies. And one of the kids (maybe two) wears a headband.

You know, I'm looking at it... and I don't see how you figure one of them is 'clearly wearing a Jounin battle vest.' One does appear to have a vest on (right side, leaning over), but it isn't detailed or clear enough to say whether it was just a 'fashion' or actually a ninja's gear. So... not clear enough. The other one has an 'X' on his back, so that's not exactly clear, either.

And what 'ninja footwear' are you talking about, because I must be missing something. If you mean the combat sandals, then... a whole shitload of people that you wouldn't really think to be ninjas or ninjas-in-training actually are, then. The Fire Country Daimyo's wife and Inari, to start off that list. <_< Both of them were wearing what looked like 'boot-like sandals' when they first appeared. One of the samurai hired by Gatou had on lace-up sandals in a similar design (though it looked more like tennis shoe sandals than combat boot sandals). In the scene where they show the Wave villagers, as Tazuna and Sakura walk around? Lots of sandals that look similar to 'ninja footwear.' Even Tsunami, when she was captured by the Samurai, seemed to be wearing that style of footwear in the panel where she was lying on the ground.

It seems to be a matter of age (old people tend to wear more 'traditional' footwear, even ninjas), sophistication (Haku wore normal sandals), and style (most people seem to wear the 'combat sandal' style shoes) that prompts that particular type of footwear. Not a person's profession, or even their parents' professions.

And a headband is not necessarily a hitai-ate. Neji wore bandages around his head, after he got the cursed seal... Naruto wore goggles. Hell, back in the eighties and early nineties, headbands were 'all the rage.' So... not enough. Even in conjunction this doesn't mean all that much, just a matter of fashion, without something to suggest otherwise.

Hmm... more and more hints to only the shinobi knowing. And the village being largely clueless, and only finding him annoying and rude.

You got... what? A guy wearing a vest that isn't clear enough to determine if it is ninja gear, a guy with an 'X' on his back, and a kid wearing a headband? Sorry, but those are some mighty weak 'hints.'

And in both my version and the french scanlations it says just 'the adults'...

Don't you love translation mishaps? Thanks to differing poinions, a clear cut answer is once again impossible.

Not precisely. I could just spend a couple of hours to find a raw copy of the pages in question, then another few while seeking through the symbols in order to see which translation is right. But I'm not going to keep doing this every time, because it gets old fast... especially since your version keeps turning up wrong.

To be clear, the translation I have is pretty much accurate. It specifically includes the words 'of the village' and 'adults' in the phrasing, on the page in question. To be even more specific, the word used for village was 'sato.' I went over what I could translate of it myself, and it's pretty much dead on.

Feel free to look it up if you don't believe me... in fact I encourage you to. I'm tired of having to do it.

So how about this... because your translation has once again proved to be unreliable (both of them, this time), you stop trying to use them to prove anything about the exact phrasing until you have proof that what mine says is wrong. I'm getting tired of spending hours looking this crap up, checking the translation for key words, trying to match up the grammatical syntax to turn it into understandable English, and so on... just to prove that your translation is full of crap, when I was pretty damned sure it was to start with.

This will be the third time I've done it. Once about Shodaime/Shodai (granted, mine actually has that wrong, too), once about the twelve hours/half a day issue, and now here... the Shodaime/Shodai thing seems to be a 'common mistake,' so that's somewhat forgivable. But your guys are changing entire phrases and removing entire words, either to 'make it more clear as they understood it' or just to fit it on the page. Either way, what you have is not even close to being an exact translation.

By the way, just re-read that section.

Hokage says "The only ones who know ARE (not WERE) the adults that fought the fox back then". In both translations, to boot.

I'm assuming it use the PAST tense in yours? Because then, it's lovely. One translation is understandable, but two making the exact same mistake is a bit harder to swallow.

So yeah, it can be either way. And it would explain why Ichiraku and a couple more civilians we see at points seem clueless about Naruto's actual nature.

Too many symbols to even try to get a handle on it by doing a symbol match, with my limited Japanese... from what I can tell it is past tense, though. When you put the relevant chunk into a translator (took me a few hours to get it ready), it provides 'having known.' So regardless of the direct translation of 'were' versus 'are,' it is in past tense... not that it really matters, since the adults of the village are being brought up on the next page.

After all, Sarutobi only has control over the NINJA rumor mill, since he's the boss of the ninja as far as we can tell. He can't do a damn thing about CIVILIANS, though, unless you assume his power extends so far, in which case I question why he didn't have a civil war in his hands, given how the adult ninja, with few exceptions, seem hostile towards Naruto, and would probably join in any overthrow attempt if the general populace was of the same opinion.

Because there is a far cry from running your mouth off (and getting severely punished for it, so that people can see the Hokage means business) and committing outright treason. The ninjas, aside from Mizuki, seem to respect and trust that Sarutobi isn't going to endanger them. They don't like Naruto, maybe even hate him... some enough to even ignore the Sandaime's law (obviously). But in the end, most of the ninjas do their jobs... and seriously, how many civilians do you really see trying to go up against trained ninjas.

In the Wave arc, hundreds of people stood around and watched as Inari's dad was killed... and this was a guy who had saved and entire section of their town and possibly their lives. The only thing between them and saving him, in that scene, was a single samurai, a stubby little guy in a suit, and a chain link fence. One samurai... and Naruto beat two samurai single handedly, one of which was the guy in question.

You can say whatever about Sarutobi being 1337 god ninja, but one rule is always the same: alienating the general populace is the fastest way for a leader, regardless of their power, to find his head under the guillotine. History does teach that - a lot. And mob mentality is a nasty thing - loud stupidity is infectious, and enough rumors are almost as bad. And Sarutobi is an old fool if he thinks he can squash a rumor mill. He can't. No one can. Rumors will always find a way to spread, and as mentioned, given how much damage Kyuubi did, I can totally see a civil war erupt over Naruto's nature being known even from a simple rumor.

Konoha has multiple trained ninjas. I can really see the civilians coming out of the woodwork to try to kill Naruto. <_< Between area effect jutsu, genjutsu, jounin like Gai and Kakashi taking out multiple ninjas by themselves, and the rest of the shinobi ranks... a rebellion pretty much seems like it'd be dead in the water. Why bother trying? Fear of death, especially when the Hokage has shown he still rules the ninja by doling out punishments to people who just spoke of Naruto 'being the Kyuubi,' is a good motivator to not be a dumbass.

Not to mention that most military personnel, which is essentially what ninja are, don't like to violate orders unless they have a major reason to do so and a lot of backing. While I'm sure there were probably a large number of ninja who didn't agree with the Sandaime's decision, they obviously respected it.

This, however, does allow us to put one piece of fanon to rest. The Hokage didn't just go senile and tell everyone that Naruto was the Kyuubi's container in the hopes that they would accept him for what he was. He tried to keep anyone from finding out in the first place, by forbidding anyone from mentioning that Naruto was the jinchuuriki... and severely punishing those who violated his wishes.

The Yondaime trusted in his people, or maybe was just a hopeful fool... either way, Sarutobi, it seems, actually knew his people well enough to know that they'd have reacted badly.

Either way, I do believe I'm done.

 

[Amberion]

Yes, using Henge... something Sasuke may or may not have known at that point. He would also have to keep it up at all times, even if accidentally knocked unconscious or hurt... which seems to disrupt the technique. Not only that, he would have to break off any and all mannerisms that Sasuke had. He was a child, not even a genin yet. Genjutsu could be noticed and dispelled, ruining it one fell swoop.

Not to mention they would have to explain where the weird new kid came from, who just happens to have shown up at the same time as the Uchiha Massacre. Too many possible problems.

Doesn't need to be a henge. Change of haircolor, new clothes and stuff like that do wonders. Not only that, Sasukes entire personality changed after the massacre.

And about a new kid just showing up. Well it has happened before, Kurenai for one is stated to have shown up as a orphan one day.

Also about him just showing up just after the massacre. They could have him in hiding for abit before sending him back.

Chiyo took down an entire fortress by herself. Sasori took out an entire country by himself.

No real proof of that has ever happened. I think it's just a rumor that has started and gone out of proportion. that or the country he took out was a little island that didn't have a big population.

The Yondaime took out almost fifty ninjas singlehandedly, and that was just in one battle. Hate the guy who can probably take on a small group by himself, of the guy who can take out fifty nin pretty much alone... it's not a hard decision.

See it this way:

Yondaime = 1 person who can take out 50 people fairly easy.
Uchiha = 50ish people who can each take out small groups by themselfs.

What could he tell him that would get him acknowledged and possibly make it easier for him to become Hokage? If you can think of something worthwhile, I'll entertain the notion. Otherwise... it's just too risky, without a better reason.

Could be anything. Didn't say it had to be true. Do you think the hokage would really care if the villagers starting to think another lie about their hated child? Specialy if this untrue thing portayed him in a decent way.

 

[ttestagr]

If Yondaime is Naruto's father, the only reasonable explanation for keeping it a secret is that the information is too close to Kyuubi. The people in the village didn't like him, in a village where being from high level families equals instant adoration. And despite Naruto knowing about Kyuubi, he never told anyone. It is possible that Naruto was told early on and didn't let anyone know because Sandaime explained that to him, and Kishimoto just didn't show it because he didn't want to bring that bit out too early.


Of course Kishimoto shit on that theory though when he had Sakura already know, but I consider that one of the greatest points of suck in Part 2 and is one of the first things I ignore.

As I said earlier, but no one commented on.

 

[Mr. Mysterious]

Doesn't need to be a henge. Change of haircolor, new clothes and stuff like that do wonders. Not only that, Sasukes entire personality changed after the massacre.

And about a new kid just showing up. Well it has happened before, Kurenai for one is stated to have shown up as a orphan one day.

Also about him just showing up just after the massacre. They could have him in hiding for abit before sending him back.

Even still, his mannerisms are still going to be the same. His personality might have changed, but his mannerisms wouldn't. A black-eyed kid, regardless of hair color, showing up after Sasuke disappeared with generally the same face and habits?

Like I said, there are too many possible problems with doing this for not enough reason to do it.

Chiyo took down an entire fortress by herself. Sasori took out an entire country by himself.

No real proof of that has ever happened. I think it's just a rumor that has started and gone out of proportion. that or the country he took out was a little island that didn't have a big population.

Sasori said it outright in issue 272. He said 'legend says' about Chiyo taking down an entire fortress, but then he pulls out over a hundred puppets (I stopped counting at 100), and flat out says that he took down an entire country with his.

When hundreds of people won't fight one samurai, and a genin can take down two samurai by himself... what do you think a puppet master can do with over a hundred bodies at his disposal?

See it this way:

Yondaime = 1 person who can take out 50 people fairly easy.
Uchiha = 50ish people who can each take out small groups by themselfs.

I don't think there were that many Uchiha even shown, but we're never really shown the skill levels of anyone but Sasuke and Itachi. Madara it is pretty much implied, and Itachi took out the entire clan, save Sasuke... so he's obviously exceptional.

More importantly, we never heard anything about Uchiha making life hell on Iwa, but we do hear about the Yondaime's fighting against Iwa. One is known, the other is speculation, at best.

Could be anything. Didn't say it had to be true. Do you think the hokage would really care if the villagers starting to think another lie about their hated child? Specialy if this untrue thing portayed him in a decent way.

You'd need something that sounds impressive enough that Naruto would be excited about it, something that isn't true, and something that he would think could help him on the path to Hokage if other people knew... something that it wouldn't be bad if he ran around blabbing or let it slip. It's kind of hard to find something that fits all those criteria.

Or you could just wait until he's older, you know he has some self control, and he could protect himself if he let it slip and word got out. :huh.:

It's a hard decision to make... do you trust a child whose sole purpose seems to be about getting noticed to keep a secret that would definitely get him noticed? Or do you keep the information of his parentage to yourself, until he's better able to deal with it? It's not as easy a decision as you seem to think.

The weights thing and the pervert thing annoy me, because they pretty much ignore canon. The chakra control thing is pretty much bad explanation. But the issue of not telling Naruto that the Yondaime is his father... it's just not something that bothers me, because either decision is potentially understandable.

But that could just be my opinion.

 

[ttestagr]

Hell, when Orochimaru was introduced Sandaime explained that he was a ninja capable of destroying whole countries by himself. I see Sarutobi being able to do what his former student could, and better if need be.

 

[GenocideHeart]

When hundreds of people won't fight one samurai, and a genin can take down two samurai by himself... what do you think a puppet master can do with over a hundred bodies at his disposal?

Because anyone who has a katana is a samurai.

Except, y'know, not.

<_<

And you once said I'm the one generalizing.

 

[Mr. Mysterious]

The idea that Sarutobi wouldn't tell anyone that the Yondaime had a child, because it would then be obvious that Naruto as container of the Kyuubi must be his son seems... very possible. I wouldn't say it was the only reason, but it could certainly factor into the equation. :sisi: