And Avatar Season 3 is upon us!
- Thread starter Ike
- Start date
Just watched the ending today. It does have some flaws - the DEM lionturtle, being a bit low on the closure side - but overall, it was pretty cool. I found the short look into the princess' mind during her slow mental decline particularly interesting.
Though I'm curious as to how long it'll take them to hammer out a new series based in the Avatarverse, be it a spin-offor sequel, or whatever, given the show's popularity and accompanying profit potential.
- Kelenas
Though I'm curious as to how long it'll take them to hammer out a new series based in the Avatarverse, be it a spin-offor sequel, or whatever, given the show's popularity and accompanying profit potential.
- Kelenas
I just got through watching the ending and, I must say, it disappointed me greatly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Spoilers~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mainly for the fact that since he kicked The Firelord's butt while in the Avatar State, the whole journey with the learning of all of the types of bending was pointless. Oh, except for that bit of Earthbending at the end that Non-AS!Aang used.
So, what took a long long long time, could've been accomplished with a teensy bit of Earthbending, the Avatar state, and a DEM!Lionturtle.
Very, Very disappointing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Spoilers~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mainly for the fact that since he kicked The Firelord's butt while in the Avatar State, the whole journey with the learning of all of the types of bending was pointless. Oh, except for that bit of Earthbending at the end that Non-AS!Aang used.
So, what took a long long long time, could've been accomplished with a teensy bit of Earthbending, the Avatar state, and a DEM!Lionturtle.
Very, Very disappointing.
Actually, every time Aang had used the Avatar State in the past, he couldn't use any element that he hadn't already learned. You saw that in Episode 2, he had already used water bending to freeze himself for 100 years and then when he went Avatar state, he was able to use water bending at a high level. Most of the other times he used the Avatar state, he was surrounded by wind, no other element. End of Season 1, he gained the form of the water spirit in the Avatar state.
And, honestly, I'm getting sick and tired of people bitching about the LionTurtle's help there. Yes, it's DEM, but it was, IMO, done tastefully. Aang only used it because he didn't want to kill Ozai. He wanted to show mercy to Ozai, but when Ozai attempted to attack Aang when his back was turned, Aang had only two real choices, kill Ozai or use the DEM that he was given for that one moment.
He used the Avatar state for the end of the fight, which had already been established as an all-powerful technique. Because, from what I've seen over the series, yes, the Avatar is powerful, learning and mastering everything, but because they have to know every bending art, the true masters of the bending arts are a bit better in the chosen area than the Avatar would be. Using the Avatar State puts the Avatar way above the bender in question. Cuz, honestly, I don't think an Avatar ever learnt the higher level bending arts (Lightning, Metal and Blood Bending, granted the last two were only invented in the last 100 years, but still...)
Really, get over the DEM that showed up there. I guess people are just sick of the DEM that Sasuke kept getting in Naruto that it carries over to other series when DEM shows up.
Yes, it probably could've been handled better, but it wasn't horribly handled, so I'm not going to complain about it.
And, honestly, I'm getting sick and tired of people bitching about the LionTurtle's help there. Yes, it's DEM, but it was, IMO, done tastefully. Aang only used it because he didn't want to kill Ozai. He wanted to show mercy to Ozai, but when Ozai attempted to attack Aang when his back was turned, Aang had only two real choices, kill Ozai or use the DEM that he was given for that one moment.
He used the Avatar state for the end of the fight, which had already been established as an all-powerful technique. Because, from what I've seen over the series, yes, the Avatar is powerful, learning and mastering everything, but because they have to know every bending art, the true masters of the bending arts are a bit better in the chosen area than the Avatar would be. Using the Avatar State puts the Avatar way above the bender in question. Cuz, honestly, I don't think an Avatar ever learnt the higher level bending arts (Lightning, Metal and Blood Bending, granted the last two were only invented in the last 100 years, but still...)
Really, get over the DEM that showed up there. I guess people are just sick of the DEM that Sasuke kept getting in Naruto that it carries over to other series when DEM shows up.
Yes, it probably could've been handled better, but it wasn't horribly handled, so I'm not going to complain about it.
well it appears that the first avatar the last airbender live action movie will be a reinterpretation of book one.
source
as long as M. Night Shyamalan keeps the movie faithful to the source material, I'll be happy
the question now is, who among young Hollywood will they get to play the gaang (and zuko) or will they go for a bunch of unknowns.
source
as long as M. Night Shyamalan keeps the movie faithful to the source material, I'll be happy
the question now is, who among young Hollywood will they get to play the gaang (and zuko) or will they go for a bunch of unknowns.
Didn't Aang enhance his voice once or twice? I recall him making it quite loud so sound as a sub-set of air is a possibility.
As I see it, what makes an Avatar an Avatar is that they have the skills and ability to MASTER all four elements. Not become good at them or become a jack of all trades. I mean master. Lightning, metal, sand, all that good stuff.
Thats the really difficult part about being an Avatar though and we don't really know if any of the other Avatars learned such skills. For all we know there could have been a blind Avatar way back when that metal bended all the time, but everyone just assumed "Oh, it's the Avatar so I guess he/she could do that".
As I see it, what makes an Avatar an Avatar is that they have the skills and ability to MASTER all four elements. Not become good at them or become a jack of all trades. I mean master. Lightning, metal, sand, all that good stuff.
Thats the really difficult part about being an Avatar though and we don't really know if any of the other Avatars learned such skills. For all we know there could have been a blind Avatar way back when that metal bended all the time, but everyone just assumed "Oh, it's the Avatar so I guess he/she could do that".
i call bullshit on the katara nearly getting zuko killed thing. At this point i have watched that group of scenes several dozen times (thank you bit torrent ) and it is clear to me that Zukos injury was his own darn fault. HE was the one that goaded Azula into using lightning. HE was the one that ditched the plan to fight her together in favor of fighting her one on one. Kataras only crime was being any where with in eye shot. a crime that is mitigated by the fact that she at least remembered the original plan. and at the end of the day she was the one to bringing Azula to her knees (literally)
as to the Aang thing forgetting the fact that this is a kids show we are talking about. Aangs unwillingness to kill ozai is understandable. we are talking about a 12-13 boy raised as a pacifist being asked to go against the principals that he had been raised with all his life. that isn't an easy thing to do. hell i'm 23 and i don't think i could bring myself to kill another person even if their death would save the world.
the lion turtle spirit bending d.e.m was a necessary evil (kids show)
seriously i've been laughing at the people on various forums who thought that nick would let them have Aang intentionally kill somebody.
i agree with you on the Azula thing though
as to the Aang thing forgetting the fact that this is a kids show we are talking about. Aangs unwillingness to kill ozai is understandable. we are talking about a 12-13 boy raised as a pacifist being asked to go against the principals that he had been raised with all his life. that isn't an easy thing to do. hell i'm 23 and i don't think i could bring myself to kill another person even if their death would save the world.
the lion turtle spirit bending d.e.m was a necessary evil (kids show)
seriously i've been laughing at the people on various forums who thought that nick would let them have Aang intentionally kill somebody.
i agree with you on the Azula thing though
The definition is very specific. Plot does not need DEM because it is an asspull. Asspulls come from not enough thought or lazy writing. Good stories do not have such things.
As for whether or not Ang suddenly Ki bending is a contrived solution? I'm not totally sure. It's well within the series' gamut of expected possibilities, and I'm sure many of us here imagined it possible given blood bending, and other clues given in the show. However, it does have the elements of the DEM. A giant divine turtle comes out of nowhere and tells Ang exactly what he needs to hear and then Ang is able to do it perfectly without training because of the avatar state. Was not killing Ozai an apparently insoluble difficulty? The series of events and Ang's angst seem lean towards yes.
I found the ending enjoyable overall though. The pace of avatar is better than even most Japanese anime, and it has almost no filler eps. Ozai could have lost through more poetically just means, but hey, no one's perfect. If it's a flaw, then we should just learn from it.
As for whether or not Ang suddenly Ki bending is a contrived solution? I'm not totally sure. It's well within the series' gamut of expected possibilities, and I'm sure many of us here imagined it possible given blood bending, and other clues given in the show. However, it does have the elements of the DEM. A giant divine turtle comes out of nowhere and tells Ang exactly what he needs to hear and then Ang is able to do it perfectly without training because of the avatar state. Was not killing Ozai an apparently insoluble difficulty? The series of events and Ang's angst seem lean towards yes.
I found the ending enjoyable overall though. The pace of avatar is better than even most Japanese anime, and it has almost no filler eps. Ozai could have lost through more poetically just means, but hey, no one's perfect. If it's a flaw, then we should just learn from it.
I agree, plot does not equal DEM. In fact they have nothing related to each other other than the story itself really. You can't really consider DEM a plot device because it doesn't really do anything to further the plot, in a lot of recent cases using it it just takes a big giant dump on the plot and then makes it love it.
In classic examples and good examples of DEM its truest and most likely only plausible form to really be consider a good thing is through comedy. The best example would be the Excel Saga anime and the wheel. That is a DEM that works fo the show well because it is a comedy not meant to be taken seriously.
The reason this DEM ticks people off is not because it solves a problem. But because it takes a big giant dump on a quality story and suddenly everything works out.
In classic examples and good examples of DEM its truest and most likely only plausible form to really be consider a good thing is through comedy. The best example would be the Excel Saga anime and the wheel. That is a DEM that works fo the show well because it is a comedy not meant to be taken seriously.
The reason this DEM ticks people off is not because it solves a problem. But because it takes a big giant dump on a quality story and suddenly everything works out.
I'm sorry, but that is an incorrect definition.
A deus ex machina is an often contrived solution to a problem or a source of conflict in a story. Essentially, it's a sudden and new development that, right when the going gets tough for the characters or the protagonists, comes out of nowhere and suddenly resolves everything.
An example - albeit, a rather farfetched example, but it should illustrate the usage of a deus ex machina decently enough - would be in the climax of a Greek play where, say, the hero is about to be killed and Apollo suddenly appears and shouts 'STOP! Stop the madness!' and proceeds to save the hero and beat off the antagonists and the play ends on an apparent good note.
In a 'properly' written story, the solution to a source of conflict should come from the plot and it should be the plot that resolves the conflict or the problem. A deus ex machina simply pulls an answer out of nowhere that does everything - despite whatever logic or structure is already present - and automatically resolves the situation. It's usually a sign of poor writing or storytelling and is discouraged.
As for Avatar's ending...well, while it was presented well enough, I'd rate Aang defeating the Fire Lord to be a deus ex machina. I don't know, but to have a giant turtle thing that floats around masquerading as an island suddenly show up without any prior introduction or anything and give him this power that magically takes away the Fire Lord's firebending abilities seems a little too contrived to me.
But, give the creators credit - they managed to write it in and make Aang's fight scene look cool enough so it isn't painfully apparent the first time around. But of course, it doesn't hold up when people like us analyze it later. :no:
A deus ex machina is an often contrived solution to a problem or a source of conflict in a story. Essentially, it's a sudden and new development that, right when the going gets tough for the characters or the protagonists, comes out of nowhere and suddenly resolves everything.
An example - albeit, a rather farfetched example, but it should illustrate the usage of a deus ex machina decently enough - would be in the climax of a Greek play where, say, the hero is about to be killed and Apollo suddenly appears and shouts 'STOP! Stop the madness!' and proceeds to save the hero and beat off the antagonists and the play ends on an apparent good note.
In a 'properly' written story, the solution to a source of conflict should come from the plot and it should be the plot that resolves the conflict or the problem. A deus ex machina simply pulls an answer out of nowhere that does everything - despite whatever logic or structure is already present - and automatically resolves the situation. It's usually a sign of poor writing or storytelling and is discouraged.
As for Avatar's ending...well, while it was presented well enough, I'd rate Aang defeating the Fire Lord to be a deus ex machina. I don't know, but to have a giant turtle thing that floats around masquerading as an island suddenly show up without any prior introduction or anything and give him this power that magically takes away the Fire Lord's firebending abilities seems a little too contrived to me.
But, give the creators credit - they managed to write it in and make Aang's fight scene look cool enough so it isn't painfully apparent the first time around. But of course, it doesn't hold up when people like us analyze it later. :no: