Benevolent Crystal Tokyo

[GenocideHeart]

The point of all this is, even if you don't elect NQS you can't stop her from doing whatever she wants.

Actually, you can. Just point out that if she ignores the people's voices, she's EXACTLY THE SAME as Beryl, Nehellenia, Mistress 9 and all the villains she thought were evil.

That will pretty much freeze her in her tracks, as she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. Either she proves she's different and forces herself to listen and respect other people's wishes, or she ignores such wishes and proves everyone, including herself and her Senshi, that she's no better than the villains she opposed so many times.

No, 'KNOWING BETTER THAN NORMAL HUMANS' is no excuse. We were created with free will for a reason. That reason is NOT so some teenaged bimbo goddess can make choices for us whether we like it or not. If she reasons that way, then she desevres whatever riot she gets in her hands.

I will stick with my right to make mistakes and pay for them, thank you. It's by experiencing that a human being grows. Just look at Chibiusa herself. Whether Usagi wants to admit it or not, the strife and suffering Usa was involved in is what made her mature, not her family sheltering her from all hardships.

Hell, ALL THE SENSHI matured into better humans through conflict. By imposing an utopia, they pretty much strip mankind of the potential to grow.

It's not INTENTIONAL, they have the best intentions... but the road to Hell is literally paved with those. And in the long run, it won't be any less harmful. Mankind needs conflict to thrive. It's an ugly truth, but one Usagi needs to learn.

From that point of view, the Blackmoon Family were acting more in mankind's overall interest than she does.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

From that point of view, the Blackmoon Family were acting more in mankind's overall interest than she does.

Black Moon wanted to take over the universe and Death Phantom was planning the end of all life as we know it. :huh:

There is still Crime in CT and people are still petty and selfish creatures. They have free will as long as that exists their will always be somebody around the corner trying to take over. CT seems to be a utopia in concepts of health and technology (People live on all the planets and their lifespans have been extended). But people are still people so it can't be that good. The few examples we've seen of people outside the Future senshi are bully kids or snobby politicians.

Usagi accepted ages ago not everyone in the world was a good person. But she also believed people should be able their lives the way they wanted to.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

You're thinking of the Fanon version of Crystal Tokyo and not the actual cannon version GH. I can't remember a point in the manga where they ever called it perfect. People are still supposed to flawed and capable of committing crimes. It's a better world but it isn't perfect.

 

[biigoh]

I think the closest analog of CT would likely be the Federation from Star Trek. Only without the star ships, and there are entities who are the spirits/souls/avatar of the various planets and celestial objects walking around.

ie. NQS would fix poverty, hunger... the rest is up to you. You could commit crimes, and there would be police officers to chase after you. Only the police officers are there, because they actually care for the law, and the welfare of the general public. At least one hopes that it is so in a benevolent utopia.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Usagi gets married at Selhurst Park?

Oh, I see what you did there, you witty rogue...

Usagi is a simple girl. ^_^

 

[daniel_gudman]

DAA, the Dual Citizen of a constitutional monarchy, has a good point. It's pretty ethnocentric of me, but

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

all men are created equal

Leaving aside the implicitly sexist language, the American Declaration of Independence explicitly states an ideal of human equality.

I believe in this concept of human equality. The Senshi fling down this concept and dance upon it; they have invested themselves with immense, literally cosmic power. If I asked them to surrender this power to be rebuilt as some sort of tank that a crew of four nobody-in-particulars could drive around, would they?

The Senshi are literal super-humans. I'm not saying they're required to turn everyone else into super-humans either, but keeping it a secret known only to them disqualifies them from being trustworthy leaders.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Leaving aside the implicitly sexist language, the American Declaration of Independence explicitly states an ideal of human equality.

I believe in this concept of human equality. The Senshi fling down this concept and dance upon it; they have invested themselves with immense, literally cosmic power. If I asked them to surrender this power to be rebuilt as some sort of tank that a crew of four nobody-in-particulars could drive around, would they?

The Senshi are literal super-humans. I'm not saying they're required to turn everyone else into super-humans either, but keeping it a secret known only to them disqualifies them from being trustworthy leaders.

They were born with this power. They have no way to share it or giving it up because it is tied to their very soul. Experimenting is pointlessly dangerous for them (so I doubt Usagi would allow it) and probably would get every other senshi in the universe come crashing down to earth to stop them so they don`t have another repeat of Chaos` false senshi and incarnations. And the senshi excluding Moon, ChibiMoon and the Asteroid Senshi are pathetically weak against Alien senshi.

In canon the only two people with the ability to bestow senshi like power are the Chaos and Guardian Cosmos.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

DAA, the Dual Citizen of a constitutional monarchy, has a good point. It's pretty ethnocentric of me, but

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

all men are created equal

Leaving aside the implicitly sexist language, the American Declaration of Independence explicitly states an ideal of human equality.

I believe in this concept of human equality. The Senshi fling down this concept and dance upon it; they have invested themselves with immense, literally cosmic power. If I asked them to surrender this power to be rebuilt as some sort of tank that a crew of four nobody-in-particulars could drive around, would they?

The Senshi are literal super-humans. I'm not saying they're required to turn everyone else into super-humans either, but keeping it a secret known only to them disqualifies them from being trustworthy leaders.

That means that people are supposedly equal within the eyes of the LAW and will be judged as such. Not that every person is equal when it comes to thier skills and capabilities. Some people are going to be better writers, scientists, police officers, athaletes, and ect, then other people might be. For the Senshi that happens to be magic. You could no more ask them not to be then you could go to tell the kid in your class who's good at math that he has no right to be and that he can only do as well as the worst student in the class can.

 

[GenocideHeart]

WHERE in the manga does it state there's still crime in CT? Because from what I recall, the only 'crimes' in CT during the story were committed by the people who were exiled for their cruelty to begin with.

Page and scan plox, because that part I REALLY don't remember. And no, crimes by the Black Mooners don't count, because they were all sent to Nemesis in the first place BECAUSE they were too evil to be allowed to stick around.

Chibi-Usa taking the crystal also doesn't count because she really didn't know better.

Also, what I meant about the Blackmoon family was that their actions, while reprehensible, allowed a lot of people to mature in a way that, without such a conflict, would have been either incredibly slow or not have happened at all. In particular Usagi learned a lot about the responsibilities of being a leader over this mess.

Things like violence and war are horrible tragedies, but sometimes they are also the only way to significantly improve, both as a race and as human beings. Without the whole Holocaust mess in WWII, the world would most likely be a lot worse as far as racism is concerned. WWII became a cautionary tale on why assuming superiority of a race over another is bad. Sure, there's still racist people around, but there's also much stronger opposition to such behavior.

 

[biigoh]

Which would be tricky, given that they would be normal humans if their souls weren't the souls of planets, stars, stella phenomena, or something silly like the galaxy...

It's like asking a genius to share his intelligence with those who were not born as smart as he was.

And since it isn't possible for said genius to make those who were not as smart as he was as intelligent as him, would you then demand that his intellect be equalized down to the lowest common denominator? Perhaps with something that distracts his intellect from functioning at full capacity?

Which oddly enough, I recall a movie being made along that premise from a short story or novel.

And weren't there also slaves at the time that declaration was written? I'm sure that they would have argued that they were hardly equal to their owners at that time.

Humans, by our nature, are not created equal. Each and every one of us are different, with our strong points and our weak points.

And in this case, those ladies and man were gifted with the souls of their worlds. Yes, this has resulted in them being quite magically potent. But it's no more different than the woman who was born into wealth. Or the man who was born with great intelligence.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

WHERE in the manga does it state there's still crime in CT? Because from what I recall, the only 'crimes' in CT during the story were committed by the people who were exiled for their cruelty to begin with.

Page and scan plox, because that part I REALLY don't remember. And no, crimes by the Black Mooners don't count, because they were all sent to Nemesis in the first place BECAUSE they were too evil to be allowed to stick around.

Umm... GH the people on Nemesis where never banished there, they went there willingly for power in cannon.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

WHERE in the manga does it state there's still crime in CT? Because from what I recall, the only 'crimes' in CT during the story were committed by the people who were exiled for their cruelty to begin with.

Page and scan plox, because that part I REALLY don't remember. And no, crimes by the Black Mooners don't count, because they were all sent to Nemesis in the first place BECAUSE they were too evil to be allowed to stick around.

CT is never stated to be a Utopia like many people think it`s just a world goverment. The fact that people have free will is pretty much why I believe Crime will always exist. IIRC Death Phantom was even able to get average people to do crimes against CT before NQS banished him.

Act 19

"The lifespan of people in the Silver Millennium is about one thousand years. After adulthood is reached, the aging process is stopped. When Selenity was 22, she ascended to the throne and gave birth to the first princess. After that, she maintained the same figure. It's all because of the power of the Mystical Silver Crystal. I have also become a member of the Silver Millennium, and so have the same longevity. Crystal Tokyo, like the Silver Millennium, entered the age of long life when we ascended to the throne in the 21st century. Now most of the people on Earth enjoy long lives from the power of the crystal. We lived on Earth in peace. That is, for a time. Now Crystal Tokyo is in ruin. Only the Mystical Silver Crystal can save the world. But Neo-Queen Selenity is the only one who can use it, and she won't wake up. So there's nothing we can do..." .....

"From the area we estimate it's located, we've discovered a huge amount of negative energy being released. Because of that, we are certain it's there. For centuries before that, they sent criminals there in place of capital punishment. After a while, they stopped and left the planet alone. Then, Nemesis turned its eyes toward our huge energy. So we began to investigate the planet once again. We found that it had been taken over by the Black Moon

*`They` makes no sense in this case since every other version said NQS banished Wiseman and other criminals to Nemesis before Black Moon took over. So I`ll pull up a Mixx page in a couple minutes to see their translation. The translator who did this has been redoing his translations because of simple spelling and grammar mistakes (calling Chronos, Cronos for example) though his is all around more reliable than Mixx who have actually called Hotaru `Jenny and got rid of things like Seiya, Michiru and Haruka being lesbians.<_<

Edited: Found the page.

Of the two I`d still trust Alex Glover`s translation and replace `They` with `We`.



This is the only canon explantion of CT.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

"From the area we estimate it's located, we've discovered a huge amount of negative energy being released. Because of that, we are certain it's there. For centuries before that, they sent criminals there in place of capital punishment. After a while, they stopped and left the planet alone. Then, Nemesis turned its eyes toward our huge energy. So we began to investigate the planet once again. We found that it had been taken over by the Black Moon

Interesting. I thought the only people who had ended on Nemesis where those that chosen to go there willingly. I have to wonder what happened to those that where there before the Black Moon family arrived.

 

[biigoh]

Perhaps those Droidos need a human stock/base for their creation?

 

[GenocideHeart]

"From the area we estimate it's located, we've discovered a huge amount of negative energy being released. Because of that, we are certain it's there. For centuries before that, they sent criminals there in place of capital punishment. After a while, they stopped and left the planet alone. Then, Nemesis turned its eyes toward our huge energy. So we began to investigate the planet once again. We found that it had been taken over by the Black Moon

Interesting. I thought the only people who had ended on Nemesis where those that chosen to go there willingly. I have to wonder what happened to those that where there before the Black Moon family arrived.

Given how Wiseman was one of them, and given what kind of person Wiseman was, I'm betting he killed them all.

And in this case, those ladies and man were gifted with the souls of their worlds. Yes, this has resulted in them being quite magically potent. But it's no more different than the woman who was born into wealth

Bad analogy. Wealth can be shared. Moreover, Beryl's cronies draining people are proof that even stuff you are born with can be shared, it's just the method she chose was an unpleasant one.

 

[biigoh]

Lifeforce, not the soul. The only time the souls/starseeds got extracted... death came pretty quickly.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

Another rather important question that probably needs to be answered is how has culture changed thanks to humanities extended life spans? After all a thousand years not only is a fairly long time to hold the same job among other things.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Losing your life force killed. The senshi just interfered before the youma could complete it. Usagi during Zoicite`s run in the manga saw people die when their lifeforce was taken away when she arrived too late. She had to revive them pretty quickly but their energy didn`t come back it was just refilled by Usagi.

Life Force and Sailor Crystals can't be shared. So all that crap about Nice youma can go to hell. They kill when they steal energy.

 

[Ordo]

Another rather important question that probably needs to be answered is how has culture changed thanks to humanities extended life spans? After all a thousand years not only is a fairly long time to hold the same job among other things.

Sorry, been distracted by 'The Nameless Mod' for Deus Ex. Anyhoo...

Well as far as extended lifespans go, I imagine that a person would hold many jobs over the course of their life. It's possible that an extended life for all humanity could result in complacency and a lack of innovation, yet I don't think that would happen. Too many work-a-holics, career minded people, control freaks and what-not exist in the human population for that to happen.

Also, there is an entire frakking universe to explore! I mean first we have to chart stars, planets and nebula, then we have to come up with a unified theory that links the micro universe of subatomic particles to the macro universe we normally perceive. Lord knows what road blocks and curve balls the universe will throw at humanity as they try to solve that one. Finally if we solve all that, then we have to begin charting the unknown possibilities of existence.

Honestly, even with a thousand year lifespan, I say humanities plate would be full.

 

[Shiakou]

Legally speaking, you don't need Superman or Son Goku's permission, right? But realistically speaking, if Superman or Son Goku were to decide that President Kyon was too sarcastic to be World President and take it upon themselves to be vigilantes, what are you going to do? What are you going to be able to do?

Bad analogy. If President Kyon was elected, Haruhi would be one step behind him, nagging him. Disagree with him being the Prez? Have fun dealing with a PMSing universal power that's the Prez's friend and who makes you look more or less like a gnat.

That is also one reason why even if Usagi DOES disagree, there might well not be much she can do. Sure, humans themselves might be unable to oppose her. Then again, humans in fiction have this nasty talent in summoning eldritch horrors from beyond who eat people like Usagi for lunch... and if someone has a very convincing, universe-eating argument on his side for why she should GTFO, Usagi is between a rock and a hard place. She can either comply and renounce power, whether she wants to or not, or she can resist and get eaten.

It's a case of 'Pick the solution you hate the least, little Goddess'. While Usagi is powerful, she has shown even in the anime and manga she's NOT omnipotent. Her limits are very high, but are there. ANd when you aren't an omnipotent, SOMETHING will always exist that's higher on the food chain than you.

Read the rest of my post. There's a reason I called Serenity "a minor god". Reason being a tacit acceptance of her place in the universe.

Hmmm... you guys must have a much different definition of 'Benevolent' than myself. What you are describing is monstrous.

If she were to do any of those, even potentially, or be able to break any law without impunity or risk of consequences... then she cannot be considered a citizen of her realm, but a mere dictator (or spoiled brat), no matter the power. If she is elected, but can only step down if she wants to, that is no real election.

I don't care you made this law, you are subject to my whim, not me to yours...

Except that Serenity's not like that. You know what Serenity's like? She's like;

"I have the power to break this world and remake it, to take your lives and give them back, to bend your will or to make you break the heavens. Yet to you who are at my mercy, I would give my life and my soul a million times over."

Those who have power will always have the potential for great good or evil. To call Serenity evil just because she has power is to call all gods and superhumans evil.

And I still say Mamaru has no inherent 'right' to the planet... if he did, that makes 6 billion sqatters, and sets precedent for past dictators if they ever came back. Hitler... Stalin... others.

Dude, Mamoru is Earth. We're the six billion fleas on his back. Saying he has no right to Earth is like saying he doesn't have the right to bathe in the morning for fear of harming the bacteria on his skin.

 

[Nico Hana]

NQS is tied for fifth/fourth for most powerful character in SM. Cosmos Guardian, Sailor Chaos, Sailor Cosmos are all stronger than her. NQS probably surpassed or is equal to Galaxia by this point while She and Kakyuu are roughly equals in power in Stars. She's pretty much the only reason one of them hasn't swooped down and claimed earth for themselves. Cosmos Guardian I doubt would let Usagi abuse her power especially since Usagi was once apart of her. She'd smack her down the earth so past your head would spin.

NQS has very minor space/time abilities. But her powers are essentially only the abilities to heal and destroy.

Actually, didn't Galaxia as good as admit that ESM was stronger then herself, and Kakyuu say that the Silver Moon Crystal was the strongest Sailor Crystal in the universe by far, as of that time anyway...?

*researches*

Usagi walks into the spacious room of the downtown condominium, carrying Luna, Artemis, and Diana.

She sees the woman in red standing inside.

"You're..."

"I am Kakyuu," says the woman. She kneels before Usagi. "I am the first order imperial Princess Kakyuu of the Red Cercis Kingdom of the planet Kinmoku."

"I apologize for the rudeness of these ones," the woman says. "They are the three guardian soldiers of our Kinmoku star system. Greetings, Sailor Moon-- no, next queen of the Silver Millennium, Neo-Queen Selenity."

"How do you know me...?" Usagi says.

"The desire of the strong, beautiful guardian soldiers of the solar systems is to be sailor soldiers scattered across the galaxy. You took the Prince's hand, and you showed the shining of this planet's next king and queen. In that moment, the power of this planet's light, filled with the power of life, crossed time and space and spread throughout the entire galaxy. That was a message from this solar system stronger, brighter, and warmer than ever before. I have wanted to meet you for so very long."

"But no matter how many planets are attacked, only when Galaxia reaches this solar system will the real test occur. Galaxia's final target is surely you."

"Why... me...?" says Usagi.

"It is because you have the most powerful of all the sailor crystals in the galaxy. You are the soldier with the Silver Moon Crystal."

"The existence of you and your Mystical Silver Crystal have upset history!" Safir said as he wrapped his hands around Usagi's neck.

I would search for more, but I have college in the morning, so I gotta sleep. xD

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Strange I could have sworn Kakyuu and Usagi were around the same level. Edit: I think it was because of the Zero Star Saggitarius incident. .:mellow:

"
"The power of the sailor soldiers is for justice and peace in the galaxy! For the ones we love and our friends!"

"I was born alone as trash, on a planet of trash," she says. "I could do nothing but wander in solitude, living my days like I was in hell. But I have power as a sailor soldier. One day, it suddenly awakened. I was a chosen one. But being a mere sailor soldier would be the same as being trash. I had to have the strongest planet, carrying the strongest power! I came searching for a planet of my own, suitable for me! And then I found it. A magnificent planet. And to get that planet, I need the galaxy's ultimate power!" Usagi gasps.

"You, the soldier of destruction, will not understand!" says Usagi. "The hands, the bodies, the words of our friends and those we love carry all kinds of power! My coming here, my living to this point, my ability to fight as a sailor soldier, is because I have my friends and the ones I love! That is a sailor soldier!!"

"Carrier of the galaxy's strongest sailor crystal!" Galaxia thinks. "Why is it Sailor Moon! That girl of trash who doesn't do a thing! But whatever it takes, I have to get her power! So I can defeat Chaos and make the entire galaxy mine! I must have that power!"

"This is the holy land of the stars," says Galaxia. "The Galaxy Cauldron. Strong stars and weak stars. Trash and sailor soldiers. This is the place where all the stars throughout the galaxy are born."

"This place," says Galaxia, "is the ultimate stage, where I will have the final chosen one. Everything is here. Here everything will be gone."

"I won't let you," she says. "I won't let you do this, Galaxia!!"

"Yes, more, more," says Galaxia. "Fuel the flames of rage and the storms of hatred."

She raises her arm toward Tuxedo Kamen.

"Be alone, Sailor Moon," she says. "That feeling will awaken the bottomless power inside you."

"Then, when you've heard all the truth from Chaos, your power will explode recklessly, and along with Chaos, you'll be no more."

"Chaos-sama!" Galaxia says. "Now I give you the galaxy's strongest soldier, Sailor Moon! The time has come at last! I will have power, the galaxy, the whole universe! I give you Sailor Moon, boiling with the highest power!!"

"Your coming here was destiny," says Chaos. "Where there is light, there is darkness. The darkness calls to the light, and the light calls again to the darkness. Our destiny matches. As before, when everything was one here, the time has now come again for light and darkness to join hands! Soldier of the galaxy's strongest light, Sailor Moon! Give me your power now! At last, my long-awaited wish has come, for me to rule all the universe instead of this Cauldron!"

"Even if someday we are gone," he thinks, "and new sailor soldiers, new stars are born... Sailor Moon, you will forever be immortal. For all eternity, you will be the most beautiful, brilliant light."

Must have been the anime affecting my memory of Usagi and Galaxia. Because it was so onesided in the anime.

Also for the Benevolent CT side

"There is no peace and happiness with the soldier of destruction!" Kakyuu says. "Don't you know that!? However many people she finds, she kills! Even in the future, with that woman there will only be destruction and slaughter!"

"But, Sailor Moon," says Lethe. "Is there a peaceful and happy future with you? A future where there is no war? Sailor Moon, the power you carry calls for war! As long as you exist, the wars will not end. From where we stand, the enemy is you! Whoever wins, the future will surely be the same. I will end this war now. I just want to have peace and happiness, together with Mnemosyne. That's all."

"If that will truly end the war," Usagi says, "kill me."

The others gasp.

"I, too, came here to end the war."

"But even if this galaxy is destroyed," says Galaxia, "somewhere a new Cauldron will surely be born again. Somewhere a new future will begin, and light and darkness may be born again. The end of war will not come so easily. A new future... Amazing, that those words are still inside me."

"Yes," says Usagi. "Yes. New futures will always continue to be created. And there, light and darkness, war and hope, life and death, joy and pain, will all exist again. Everything, that is this universe."

"Sailor Moon...!" thinks Galaxia. "You believe in such a distant future for this universe? Sailor Moon, are you the soldier that draws in everything? Sailor Moon... I've finally found it. My planet..."


"That's right," she thinks to herself. "I came now to end this war. I have always fought to end wars. That is the mission of a sailor soldier. That is the wish of a sailor soldier. All our wishes are always the same. No matter what future awaits us."

 

[Nico Hana]

I almost think that in the anime Uranus and Neptune took Lethe's and Mnemosyne's places, they just give that vibe, y'know?

 

[Deleted member 5249]

They do.

But I prefer the River Twins to the kissing cousins. ^_^

I have a soft spot for Alien Senshi.

 

[Nico Hana]

Less of the 'What the hell are you self-absorbed morons doing!?' hair tearing feeling, eh? xD

Or maybe fanfics just play up that aspect of their personalities, I've never watched the anime all the way through you see, something about it just sets my teeth on edge. ^^;;

I have watched all the movies though, those are cool.