Bleach Bleach vs X-Men

[goldenarms]

Also, you talk like Aizen is stupid. Before his whole 'I have transcended' ego trip, he was a badass manipulator and observer, he would notice that Hulk was getting stronger as he got angrier, and would switch tactics. His sword can control all five senses, would hulk stay angry if he was getting pleasant imagery and sensation? Even if he had fully made Hulk think he needed smashed, he has shown the willingness and skill to fake his death canonically.

This in general.

He's not MOTHERFUCKING AIZEN because of sheer brute force, but because he's the most diabolical villain of the Bleach world who spent centuries crafting his plans and cultivating an image that makes him look like the ultimate benevolent force, completely fooling everyone in the Seireitei and making them his bitches in broad daylight, mercilessly gamed the system of Central 46 and had Seireitei blindly following his orders. And that's not bringing up how he handpicked Momo and manipulated her feelings to the point she automatically believed Aizen's letter and came right the fuck after her longtime friend with intent to kill him and avenge Aizen's death.

Knowing Aizen, Xavier is already sixteen steps behind him before the fight ever comes up. Fighting Aizen on his plane of existence and even counting psychic powers the same as reishi, Xavier is pretty boned. Because Aizen's power lies in his words, not just the ability to LOLBLOCK your attacks with his index finger.

Well, that and being Crazy Prepared.

He's gonna run a Xanatos Gamibt, against a telepath, who can pull the entire plan, down to the last detail, directly out of his mind, with perfect accuracy, with about a quarter-second of effort, anytime he wants, from anywhere in the world. Really? He's good; he's not that good.
Hulk? Yeah, he could get Hulk that way.

That's running on the assumption that Xavier can read his mind.

Again, we're talking about Aizen, who had a tiny forcefield set up around the base of his neck just for when someone like Ichigo would suddenly come out of the most impossible of places at the most unbelievable of times to behead him. Oh, and let's not forget, knew about Ichigo from the day he was born and furthermore manipulated everything to bring about this moment so he knows "everything" about him. He has his fingers in a lot of pies so it's no stretch to say he has guarding against mental intrusions -- given what kind of zanpakuto he has, it's not out of the question he is prepared for any sort of psychic assault.

Perhaps Xavier after being thrown into the M'Kraan crystal stands a chance, as assuming he's paranoid like Batman and going for blood, but then again, you'd also have to assume Aizen's already bonded with the Hyogoku, which makes things really messy, since Aizen's spiritual pressure crushes lesser being, and Xavier has to be within a certain distance to use stronger abilities, like erasing people's minds. With the Mind gem, he probably would win rather easily, unless Aizen shows up as a no-mind being; then again, Xavier wouldn't use the Gem in the first place.

All in all, basing on their normal reactions and behaviors, Aizen won this fight like 60 years ago, and they're only fighting because he now wants to "consume" Xavier, and I'm taking that in a nonsexual way.

 

[goldenarms]

as i said, if such scene is written or exist the fans of each work will make it as a victory for the party they like for being 'just as planed' in his Xanatos Gambits.

Which is problematic in the first place. Seeing as how Xavier has been written by multiple guys, it really is dependent on whose version you're using. Some days, Xavier ROFLSTOMP people like Juggernaut solo; other days, he's practically The Chick with all the Chickification in the world.

So, it's really dependent on the writer. We don't know how mental energies interface with Bleach mechanics until we decide them, and whether or not it's possible for a telepath to read a captain-class mind without fracturing, or if at all.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Regarding Aizen tricking Hulk with pleasant imagery: it has been tried. Several times, even. He actually guessed something was wrong every time (because Hulk starts out on the assumption that the world doesn't like him, and when things seem to go TOO well, he gets suspicious), and GOT MADDER. It didn't end well for the responsible parties.

As for Xavier, he can mindread aliens (barring psionic immune species like the Brood, who hose any and all attempts at mindscan against them), energy beings, cosmic entities (Hi Phoenix! Admittedly, he ended up losing that psychic battle, but he managed to hold on against a monster on Galactus's level for a few seconds, which is, to the Phoenix's own admission, more than she expected), and even an actually dead person (Dead Girl, whose name is exactly what it says on the tin - also, he could hear and talk to the poltergeists hanging around Wicked in Genosha, although they had gone insane with grief and weren't great conversationalists), so I'd hazard a guess that Aizen being dead and incorporeal isn't nearly enough of a defense to keep him from being mindread.

Also, do remember that this is Charles Xavier - the guy who made plans decades in advance himself and saw most of them come to fruition in modern times, and who took a page out of Batman by keeping a file detailing how to best kill every mutant he'd come across ever safely tucked away for most of his life (in fact, they were only found after he was believed dead, if memory serves - and he was preoccupied with saving his alien girlfriend's life at the time).

As for Xavier being The Chick, he usually only gets in that role against people on whom his powers are useless (Magneto and Juggernaut with helmets, the Brood, Nimrod and other Sentinels, and when dealing with most women in his life, lol, he loses more arguments with Moira than he loses battles with his enemies...).

 

[byakuryuu]

Why are... we even still discussing this in terms of "lolpowerlevel"? Clearly there is only one measurement to know just who is the superior:

Which side can endure watching repetitions of Eragon the Movie and the Book(s) in quick succession. Last man standing wins. Easy.

 

[trevelyan1983]

Which side can endure watching repetitions of Eragon the Movie and the Book(s) in quick succession. Last man standing wins. Easy.

Die, monster! You don't belong in this thread!

 

[byakuryuu]

It was not by my hand that I have returned to this forum. I was called by the Justicars of Neutrality who wished to pay me tribute.

 

[Vanigo]

He's gonna run a Xanatos Gamibt, against a telepath, who can pull the entire plan, down to the last detail, directly out of his mind, with perfect accuracy, with about a quarter-second of effort, anytime he wants, from anywhere in the world. Really? He's good; he's not that good.
Hulk? Yeah, he could get Hulk that way.

That's running on the assumption that Xavier can read his mind.

Again, we're talking about Aizen, who had a tiny forcefield set up around the base of his neck just for when someone like Ichigo would suddenly come out of the most impossible of places at the most unbelievable of times to behead him. Oh, and let's not forget, knew about Ichigo from the day he was born and furthermore manipulated everything to bring about this moment so he knows "everything" about him. He has his fingers in a lot of pies so it's no stretch to say he has guarding against mental intrusions -- given what kind of zanpakuto he has, it's not out of the question he is prepared for any sort of psychic assault.

Perhaps Xavier after being thrown into the M'Kraan crystal stands a chance, as assuming he's paranoid like Batman and going for blood, but then again, you'd also have to assume Aizen's already bonded with the Hyogoku, which makes things really messy, since Aizen's spiritual pressure crushes lesser being, and Xavier has to be within a certain distance to use stronger abilities, like erasing people's minds. With the Mind gem, he probably would win rather easily, unless Aizen shows up as a no-mind being; then again, Xavier wouldn't use the Gem in the first place.

All in all, basing on their normal reactions and behaviors, Aizen won this fight like 60 years ago, and they're only fighting because he now wants to "consume" Xavier, and I'm taking that in a nonsexual way.

That's assuming he's capable of blocking telepathy. If his reiki can block telepathy, it follows that psychic powers and reiki are basically compatible, and Xavier can therefore shrug off Aizen's death aura. Actually, it means a great deal more than that; since every Bleach attack is based on reiatsu, he's going to make Kenpachi look like a wet toilet paper golem - Xavier's powers would be literally earth-shaking if they weren't purely telepathic. And since Aizen's body is spiritual/astral in nature, even if Xavier can't touch his mind he can probably attack his body directly.
Unless he blocks telepathy by stealing Magneto's helmet, that is. That could work even if reiatsu and telepathy ignore each other. Problem there is he's got a lot of schemes running, and I don't think he can afford to answer questions about what the goofy-looking helmet is for for sixty years - and he definitely can't afford to answer questions about why some people can see the helmet and some can't; not every shinigami has seen his shikai.
Either way, while it's not inconceivable that Aizen could scheme his way to victory anyway, he's up against someone who knows how the game is played, and he's laboring under some extremely heavy disadvantages. Even if Xavier can't read his mind, he can read everyone else's, and with Cerebro he can read them all at the same time. He has to set things up so that either Xavier has no idea anything is going on until he's already won - which he couldn't do even when he was scheming against Soul Society - or so that he's the only person anywhere who knows more than the tiniest fragment of the plan.

(Oh, and as for planning the whole Ichigo thing - that's if you take his word for it. I kind of suspect he was just spouting bullshit to throw Ichigo off his game, mostly because I don't see why he would want any of that stuff to happen. And if he did, it was kind of a stupid move, seeing as how it lead directly to his deafeat, which also pokes something of a hole in Aizen-as-a-flawless-manipulator.)

Actually, come to think of it, there is a way he could win pretty easily if Xavier is vulnerable to reiatsu. Steal Magneto's helmet, then proceed directly to Xavier's location and kill him. That would totally win him the "Xavier vs. Aizen" challenge. Of course, it would also completely bone his long-range schemes, what with the inevitable questions about why he felt it necessary to attack a school in the living world, and the equally inevitable investigations into his other activities. Plus, bringing the rest of the Marvel universe into the picture probably does far more to harm him than help him, in general. But I guess that's neither here nor there.

 

[shinzero01]

Also, you talk like Aizen is stupid. Before his whole 'I have transcended' ego trip, he was a badass manipulator and observer, he would notice that Hulk was getting stronger as he got angrier, and would switch tactics. His sword can control all five senses, would hulk stay angry if he was getting pleasant imagery and sensation? Even if he had fully made Hulk think he needed smashed, he has shown the willingness and skill to fake his death canonically.

This in general.

He's not MOTHERFUCKING AIZEN because of sheer brute force, but because he's the most diabolical villain of the Bleach world who spent centuries crafting his plans and cultivating an image that makes him look like the ultimate benevolent force, completely fooling everyone in the Seireitei and making them his bitches in broad daylight, mercilessly gamed the system of Central 46 and had Seireitei blindly following his orders. And that's not bringing up how he handpicked Momo and manipulated her feelings to the point she automatically believed Aizen's letter and came right the fuck after her longtime friend with intent to kill him and avenge Aizen's death.

Knowing Aizen, Xavier is already sixteen steps behind him before the fight ever comes up. Fighting Aizen on his plane of existence and even counting psychic powers the same as reishi, Xavier is pretty boned. Because Aizen's power lies in his words, not just the ability to LOLBLOCK your attacks with his index finger.

Well, that and being Crazy Prepared.

He's gonna run a Xanatos Gamibt, against a telepath, who can pull the entire plan, down to the last detail, directly out of his mind, with perfect accuracy, with about a quarter-second of effort, anytime he wants, from anywhere in the world. Really? He's good; he's not that good.
Hulk? Yeah, he could get Hulk that way.

That's running on the assumption that Xavier can read his mind.

Again, we're talking about Aizen, who had a tiny forcefield set up around the base of his neck just for when someone like Ichigo would suddenly come out of the most impossible of places at the most unbelievable of times to behead him. Oh, and let's not forget, knew about Ichigo from the day he was born and furthermore manipulated everything to bring about this moment so he knows "everything" about him. He has his fingers in a lot of pies so it's no stretch to say he has guarding against mental intrusions -- given what kind of zanpakuto he has, it's not out of the question he is prepared for any sort of psychic assault.

Perhaps Xavier after being thrown into the M'Kraan crystal stands a chance, as assuming he's paranoid like Batman and going for blood, but then again, you'd also have to assume Aizen's already bonded with the Hyogoku, which makes things really messy, since Aizen's spiritual pressure crushes lesser being, and Xavier has to be within a certain distance to use stronger abilities, like erasing people's minds. With the Mind gem, he probably would win rather easily, unless Aizen shows up as a no-mind being; then again, Xavier wouldn't use the Gem in the first place.

All in all, basing on their normal reactions and behaviors, Aizen won this fight like 60 years ago, and they're only fighting because he now wants to "consume" Xavier, and I'm taking that in a nonsexual way.

Shinji's shikai shows that Aizen can be effected by mental tampering, though it used scent as a medium to completely invert directions to him.

Just sucks that Aizen got used to it so fast.

 

[Liam-don]

Huh, if we go around and hand Aizen time in the Marvelverse his fight versus Xavier becomes a non-issue because he'll be found and obliterated by Strange.

 

[Xon]

Bankai then sword through the neck...

What's that going todo tickle him?

Wolverine's head just regrows his body, or worse he has another chat with Death and regenerates from just his skeleton some plot determined time later. His regeneration is completely batshit insane, and violates conservation of energy/mass.

This is one of the major problems with DC/Marvel, decades of bullshit powerups which continuously get retconned into more ridiculously powersets makes for a rather unstable platform to try todo a vs debate with unless you very carefully define which of the many version of the X-men you are talking about.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Why are... we even still discussing this in terms of "lolpowerlevel"? Clearly there is only one measurement to know just who is the superior:

Which side can endure watching repetitions of Eragon the Movie and the Book(s) in quick succession. Last man standing wins. Easy.

I seem to recall one Marvel character in-universe LIKING Eragon. One of the Runaways, I think.

So, uh, no contest?

 

[A Curious Stranger]

Why are... we even still discussing this in terms of "lolpowerlevel"? Clearly there is only one measurement to know just who is the superior:

Which side can endure watching repetitions of Eragon the Movie and the Book(s) in quick succession. Last man standing wins. Easy.

I seem to recall one Marvel character in-universe LIKING Eragon. One of the Runaways, I think.

So, uh, no contest?

Fucking teenagers, what do they know? That entire series got dumb as hell once they focused on 'Adults are dumb and evil. Only teenagers can be trusted.'

 

[byakuryuu]

Why are... we even still discussing this in terms of "lolpowerlevel"? Clearly there is only one measurement to know just who is the superior:

Which side can endure watching repetitions of Eragon the Movie and the Book(s) in quick succession. Last man standing wins. Easy.

I seem to recall one Marvel character in-universe LIKING Eragon. One of the Runaways, I think.

So, uh, no contest?

Fucking teenagers, what do they know? That entire series got dumb as hell once they focused on 'Adults are dumb and evil. Only teenagers can be trusted.'

You know what would have scared Chaos King off?

The manuscript to Eragon Part 4.

You know what would have scared Aizen off?

Well-drawn backgrounds.

How IS Bleach going, by the way? I firmly believed "Ichigo saying goodbye to Rukia and losing his powers permanently" was the end... and I've refused to pick up another issue of the tripe.

 

[Python453]

How IS Bleach going, by the way? I firmly believed "Ichigo saying goodbye to Rukia and losing his powers permanently" was the end... and I've refused to pick up another issue of the tripe.

Ichigo is currently in the process of trying to regain his Shinigami powers. It's classic Kubo introducing a new storyline- he's introduced a shitload of characters, with unique powers but after the arc is over you'll probably never see them until the most unexpected moment.

 

[zeebee1]

Actually, it's likely we'll never see them again. If they succeed in the way they claim they intend to then they won't have any powers, and therefore no relevance, when the arc is over.