Nasuverse Darker Than FATE

[MastaofBitches]

Gosh, that's pretty tame. Maybe we've been spoiled due to lack of Mods and Banhammers, but I'd have thought you'd get a warning first.

I did, but I argued about it, since it's not really an offensive image, and the only person who probably would be offended is Cherry...

So I got banned, spent a week off the forums, then set up a new account and got perma-banned.

It's a pain, since now I can't even browse the damn thing outside of college.

Honestly, I just want my PM's so I can finish writing the idea up...

 

[Cherry_lover]

I did, but I argued about it, since it's not really an offensive image, and the only person who probably would be offended is Cherry...

Actually, Altima himself finds it offensive.

I personally couldn't care less if you want to put stupid, blatently trollish pictures in your sig. I know you're a total asshole, and I don't really care if you're determined to prove it to everyone else too....

So I got banned, spent a week off the forums, then set up a new account and got perma-banned.

Yeah, strange that, you evade a ban (rather blatently) and then get perma-banned....

It's a pain, since now I can't even browse the damn thing outside of college.

Are you really that lacking in technical knowledge?

Honestly, I just want my PM's so I can finish writing the idea up...

Well, try talking to Altima.

 

[MastaofBitches]

You know, if somebody had bothered telling me how long the ban would last, I wouldn't have set up the second account.

And how can I get in contact with Altima, when I can't even get on the front page? I already refreshed my ip address twice, so that's not what's being blocked.

 

[trevelyan1983]

That's nice and all, but, speaking as someone who held Sakura up as an awesome woobie and an example of perseverance in a hellish situation, you're pretty much the poster boy for frothing, mentally imbalanced fans who over-invest in a character to the point that they put others off of said character.

I mean, shit, Zouken was doing it all for love too. Think about that for a second. Then consider that, by my lights, you do as much harm for Sakura's following.

 

[MastaofBitches]

That's nice and all, but, speaking as someone who held Sakura up as an awesome woobie and an example of perseverance in a hellish situation, you're pretty much the poster boy for frothing, mentally imbalanced fans who over-invest in a character to the point that they put others off of said character.

I mean, shit, Zouken was doing it all for love too. Think about that for a second. Then consider that, by my lights, you do as much harm for Sakura's following.

Oh that's right! Zouken was trying to meet with Justica(?), wasn't he?

 

[Cherry_lover]

That's nice and all, but, speaking as someone who held Sakura up as an awesome woobie and an example of perseverance in a hellish situation, you're pretty much the poster boy for frothing, mentally imbalanced fans who over-invest in a character to the point that they put others off of said character.

No, what I say about her is perfectly reasonable, and if it made you start hating her, then you are a total moron without any ability to actually make decisions for themselves.

I mean, shit, Zouken was doing it all for love too.

No, he wasn't.

Then consider that, by my lights, you do as much harm for Sakura's following.

I probably do turn some people against her, yes, but only generally trollish idiots who didn't actually really like her in the first place anyway. Further, I certainly have convinced others to support her.

Oh that's right! Zouken was trying to meet with Justica(?), wasn't he?

No, he wasn't.

His original goal was to ensure the Grail was formed and used in her memory (since she sacrificed herself to create it), but in order to do so he made himself immortal, and over the years, as his soul rotted, he entirely forgot his original motive and just became obsessed with living forever no matter what the cost.

 

[MastaofBitches]

Oh that's right! Zouken was trying to meet with Justica(?), wasn't he?

No, he wasn't.

His original goal was to ensure the Grail was formed and used in her memory (since she sacrificed herself to create it), but in order to do so he made himself immortal, and over the years, as his soul rotted, he entirely forgot his original motive and just became obsessed with living forever no matter what the cost.

Sounds like he stopped being Zouken at that point though, so I almost feel sorry for him, one bad choice sent on his path to becoming a bad guy.

Almost feel sorry for him, but having Assassin kill Sasaki and Lancer means he lost any chance of pity I'd give him.

 

[trevelyan1983]

No, what I say about her is perfectly reasonable, and if it made you start hating her, then you are a total moron without any ability to actually make decisions for themselves.

Yes, I hate her. This is obviously the case because I don't like how you play the paladin. The two are inextricably linked. It's not possible to like Sakura and think that you're an overbearing, obsessive compulsive twat who can't summon the maturity to button his piehole for five fucking minutes when someone else mentions Sakura.

I must hate her, Mike, because no-one else could ever love her as you do. No-one else could understand how badly she's been wronged, or how nice she is.

Although I'm sure someone with half a brain could use some synonyms for nice once in a while, unlike your good self.

 

[Cherry_lover]

Almost feel sorry for him, but having Assassin kill Sasaki and Lancer means he lost any chance of pity I'd give him.

Well, yes, exactly.

Normally, he would be pitiable, but his actions just make it impossible to feel anything but utter revulsion towards him.

Yes, I hate her. This is obviously the case because I don't like how you play the paladin. The two are inextricably linked. It's not possible to like Sakura and think that you're an overbearing, obsessive compulsive twat who can't summon the maturity to button his piehole for five fucking minutes when someone else mentions Sakura.

Erm, I only thought you hated her because of how you worded your comment, and even then I said if I'd made you hate her.

 

[shioran toushin]

the point is that you come as an overbearing Sakura obsessed person.

 

[ttestagr]

He kinda is an overbearing Sakura-obsessed person.

 

[Elvarein]

Totally.

And I have to agree that people like Mr Cherry_lover are the single fastest way to kill one's enjoyment of a character. Which is why I tend to skip his posts. And to be honest while MoB was an weak troll in the past, cherry is happily supplanting him in this part of the forum.

Now for this idea, its an interesting idea, but I do not see any way of it ending except in tears (so very similar to Darker than Black). My key suggestion is not to draw so much from Darker than Black but take the general concept and not try to completely fit characters into Hei and his group's roles. And for their initial opponent? What the heck? A triad? They would be wiped out in days or even a week at most if they encountered MoS Shirou. He would just go in and destroy them all. Also why in the world would the Mage's Association want to kill them? They are below the MA's notice. You would need to equip them with magic or have a dead apostle there (wait only the church would be interested), or have a rogue mage there who might potentially reveal the existence of magic for them to be interested.

I would suggest making Rin's story a little different. In HF from what I remember, Rin was in favour of killing Sakura, because she knew the damage that she could do. She very likely hated herself for saying that and thinking that, and was secretly relieved though outwardly not happy that Shirou rejected her plan so forcefully. I contend that if Shirou kills Sakura and they all somehow survive the war, it is still likely that Rin would hate both Shirou and most importantly herself. She would hate herself for giving up on her sister twice over and for being too weak to do anything about it(Which is again very very similar to how Huang feels about it all).

However as for Ilya, do note that she would not have survived past the Grail War for long. She is a homunculous and would die very quickly after the war. (Perhaps 1 year at max if I remember correctly). Even if she did not die they would have to contend with the Einzbern family if they wanted to keep her. Not to mention the clock tower would be very interested in examining an Einzbern homunculous. You could handwavium it away though ;p

Thus, I would rather that you make it a Rin and Shirou story, both working for the Mage Association trying to hunt down a rogue mage in the seedy underbowels of Jappan or whatever country you are basing it in. If you are feeling ambitious, throw Kirei into the team. Heh. That would be darkly hilarious. The King of Trolls with two angsting idiots who only have each other in the world and yet one blames the other? So much flamebait!!!!

As for the trigger to make them go rogue, just make it simple. The Mage's Association discovers Shirou's ability to create a reality marble, and his magic which seems close to the True Magic, Denial of Nothingness. They decide to honour him with a sealing designation.

MWHAHAHAHAHA. CHAOS!

 

[Cherry_lover]

And I have to agree that people like Mr Cherry_lover are the single fastest way to kill one's enjoyment of a character. Which is why I tend to skip his posts. And to be honest while MoB was an weak troll in the past, cherry is happily supplanting him in this part of the forum.

No because, you see, trolling means posting things with the intention of winding people up, not just "saying things you don't like"....

Also, you've basically given the exact same assessment of the fic as I gave, only a bit less aggressively.

 

[1111]

If Shirou went by the MoS path, he would kill everyone in the Grail War, no exeptions. Maybe Ilya and Rin could survive, but it'll would need a fucking good reason for them to stay alive when MoS Shirou doesn't have morals and they are enemies. If he can he will kill them. Why the fuck would he let them alive?

If you cover that part this could be a really good fic. I hope you write it.

And the Fujimura Yakuza would die in les than five minutes. The mages have magic. They do not.

 

[shioran toushin]

Well, I do like arguing, and I'm not particularly adverse to pissing off assholes like you either, so....

No because, you see, trolling means posting things with the intention of winding people up

and the point was

only a bit less aggressively.

 

[Cherry_lover]

If Shirou went by the MoS path, he would kill everyone in the Grail War, no exeptions. Maybe Ilya and Rin could survive, but it'll would need a fucking good reason for them to stay alive when MoS Shirou doesn't have morals and they are enemies. If he can he will kill them. Why the fuck would he let them alive?

Yeah, this.

Which, by the way, I already pointed out some time ago....

And the Fujimura Yakuza would die in les than five minutes. The mages have magic. They do not.

This is also likely true. The Yakuza couldn't handle the Magic Association.

 

[A_Downstreamer]

It was said in the OP that this is drawing inspiration from Verg Avasta's "Faker", which follows a MoS ending. While I'm not sure how much of what Verg did he intends to keep for the back story here (there are some obvious differences since Rin survives in MoBs idea) it still might be a good idea to read it to get an idea of where MoB is coming from.

So here is the link: <a href='http://nrvnqsr.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fanfic&action=display&thread=6328&page=5' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://nrvnqsr.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa...ead=6328&page=5</a>

Just scroll down to the bold "Faker" heading.

 

[1111]

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

That thing was truly awesome. I don't know what else to say.

If I knew how I would create a patch to put that fic in the novel after the MoS bad end I would do it.

 

[Elvarein]

If Shirou went by the MoS path, he would kill everyone in the Grail War, no exeptions. Maybe Ilya and Rin could survive, but it'll would need a fucking good reason for them to stay alive when MoS Shirou doesn't have morals and they are enemies. If he can he will kill them. Why the fuck would he let them alive?

If you cover that part this could be a really good fic. I hope you write it.

And the Fujimura Yakuza would die in les than five minutes. The mages have magic. They do not.

Everyone in the grail war? Err what? I really do not remember him being that way in MOS although admittedly I only played through that path once. What I do remember is that MoS is just him taking on Kiritsugi's ideals, in this case it would mean sacrificing Sakura for the sake of people in general. Its not an absence of ideals i thought?

 

[lask]

Cherry F*&^(r only cares about Sakura. The rest of the cast could burn in hellfire and die a thousand times over and he would be happy as long as Sakura has her happy end. He conciders Heaven's Feel the happiest route even though it's the one where the most innocent people die.

Basicly, he never contirbutes anything useful to a thread, and will try and kill or derail all threads that don't give Sakura a happy ending, even if giving her a happy ending MAKES NO SENSE. Of course, he's also someone who calls her not hating Shinji strong, rather then a pretty common symptom of stockholm syndrome (which also ties in neatly with her self-hatred), so... He doesn't really care about her as a character, he cares about her as a symbol of perfection.

This idea was never about giving her a happy ending, so of course he's going to troll it to the best of his vast trolling ability.

 

[Ragnarock]

I go to bed expecting two or three responses, I get two pages, lol. *Get to work*

Possibly, Len would be the "mao" of the group.

No, the only thing stopping Rin from bailing, is those are her orders from the Clock Tower, since she knows Shirou's abilities the best, she the best suited to giving mission info, and what he can, and can't survive.

And it's still Loli Illya, since nobody ever suspects the cute little school girl on the corner of giving police movement to a wanted assassin.

A loli Ilya and a White Ren both competing for a total badass...heh, man now you've got me seriously intrigued.

I got perma-banned, so now I can't even browse the forum...

Just use a proxy. Use google and you'll get a ton of sites.

Oh and, Altima of the Gates is incredibly easy to fool, in fact, he's the least competent of the three admins. In other words, if you don't make fun of Sakura his chances of finding you are zero, the other mods are way sharper so be careful. In his defense though, he likes thinking he's smart so you should play along with his antics from time to time.

(If you don't believe me just ask Nahash!)

The only "real" crossover element, would be the inclusion of Novemeber 11, and his Ice magic.

It's been several years since I watched DtB, IIRC, ice magic was his assistant's power (the black girl) N11's was to teleport...and become naked, lol.

Well, no, because defending your favourite character is not the same as deliberately posting things with the sole intention of baiting other people. I may sometimes be rather rude, but I don't go out to attack people, unless they're total assholes like MoB.

Think of it this way: you like Sakura and like seeing in a positive way, anyway who tarnishes her image is trolling in your view. Similarly, there are Sakura haters who hate Sakura to the degree you hate Zouken, they get irritated when positive things happen to Sakura and they get irritated when they see people who defend her (trolling in their view).

So I got banned, spent a week off the forums, then set up a new account and got perma-banned.

So he perma-banned you because you kept using a signature he didn't like? A signature that no one other than himself (and mike) found to be provocative?

Actually, Altima himself finds it offensive.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Are you serious?

And how can I get in contact with Altima, when I can't even get on the front page? I already refreshed my ip address twice, so that's not what's being blocked.

1) Alt's email: ragaltima@hotmail.com
2) I think he's registered at forums.animesuki.com, but it's been years since I've to that place so I'm not sure.
3) Go to beast's lair via proxy, login/create new account and ask him.
4) Ask mike to be the 3rd party.

No, what I say about her is perfectly reasonable, and if it made you start hating her, then you are a total moron without any ability to actually make decisions for themselves.

Sorry, but no. You've missed his point.

It's the degree to which you go to defend her that irritates people.

"Why the fuck isn't she in a fanfiction!? She's a fucking heroine...."
"MoS is shitsux because Sakura dies!"
"Last Episode is nasu pulling stuff out of his ass to appease the Saber fans."
"HF is the true canon route of F/sn, yay!!"


If you guys were more like Nerroth Sakura wouldn't get so much shit falling on her. It's gotten to the point where people troll Sakura just to make you guys (mike n altima) pissed off rather than because they find said trolling funny.

 

[AOG]

Cherry F*&^(r only cares about Sakura. The rest of the cast could burn in hellfire and die a thousand times over and he would be happy as long as Sakura has her happy end. He conciders Heaven's Feel the happiest route even though it's the one where the most innocent people die.

Basicly, he never contirbutes anything useful to a thread, and will try and kill or derail all threads that don't give Sakura a happy ending, even if giving her a happy ending MAKES NO SENSE. Of course, he's also someone who calls her not hating Shinji strong, rather then a pretty common symptom of stockholm syndrome (which also ties in neatly with her self-hatred), so... He doesn't really care about her as a character, he cares about her as a symbol of perfection.

This idea was never about giving her a happy ending, so of course he's going to troll it to the best of his vast trolling ability.

Actually I can't agree with you there, because if you look at their background, she didn't hate Shinji because she felt it was her fault, for taking his place. That he suffered the same abandonment as she did from her own family. Stockholm syndrome is developing a fondness for your assailant over time, so it's offbase to call it SS.

Honestly, I've never seen many people get Sakura right, and it might be because she is quite complex, not just some cliche Woobie, but someone who wears different faces just like Rin and Saber do.

As for the fic, I can say it could be interesting, but like somone else just said, this kind shoots a few elements of Verg's fic in the ass.

 

[1111]

If Shirou went by the MoS path, he would kill everyone in the Grail War, no exeptions. Maybe Ilya and Rin could survive, but it'll would eed a fucking good reason for them to stay alive when MoS Shirou doesn't have morals and they are enemies. If he can he will kill them. Why the fuck would he let them alive?

If you cover that part this could be a really good fic. I hope you write it.

And the Fujimura Yakuza would die in les than five minutes. The mages have magic. They do not.

Everyone in the grail war? Err what? I really do not remember him being that way in MOS although admittedly I only played through that path once. What I do remember is that MoS is just him taking on Kiritsugi's ideals, in this case it would mean sacrificing Sakura for the sake of people in general. Its not an absence of ideals i thought?

I didn't say absence of ideal, I said absence of moral.

Saving people is his only goal, he doesn't care about anything else. He would do whatever is needed in order to save people, that is his ideal. Even if that means to kill other people.

To save people he need to win the Holy Grail. He will kill anyone in his path in order to do so. Is said in the novel that he won. Therefore the other participants either truly abandoned any intentions of wining the war or are dead.

Rin, who has fucking nothing to lose and is deep in the path of a cold hearted magus, will try to win at any cost, like a magus would. She wouldn't forfeit.

Zouken... he only lives for the sake of obtaining inmortality. He wouldn't let Shirou win.

Gil wants to destroy the world with the Grail.

Rider, if she managed to stay around, would want only to kill him, preventing him from attaining victory.

Illya is Berserker weak point. In the mindset of MoS it would be natural to kill her to destroy the hero.

The only one that could, using a lot of imagination, survive would be Kotomine. Because he doesnt care about winning if the grail is complete. Knowing him, he would even help Shirou if that meant a chance of seeing the birth of Angra. But he would probably die too.

So, in the most likely end is: MoS happens everybody else dies.

------------

Ragnarock: november11 power is ice. His assistant power is creating something similar to a tornado, usually to absorb water and making N11's powers easy to use. The power of teletransport and nakdness was a blond woman of Amber's group. She transported N11 once so is a comprensile error.

 

[MastaofBitches]

Possibly, Len would be the "mao" of the group.

No, the only thing stopping Rin from bailing, is those are her orders from the Clock Tower, since she knows Shirou's abilities the best, she the best suited to giving mission info, and what he can, and can't survive.

And it's still Loli Illya, since nobody ever suspects the cute little school girl on the corner of giving police movement to a wanted assassin.

A loli Ilya and a White Ren both competing for a total badass...heh, man now you've got me seriously intrigued.

You do need to remember that for at the very least, the first half of the fic is going to have him him considering them his teammates, and nothing else.

I got perma-banned, so now I can't even browse the forum...

Just use a proxy. Use google and you'll get a ton of sites.

Oh and, Altima of the Gates is incredibly easy to fool, in fact, he's the least competent of the three admins. In other words, if you don't make fun of Sakura his chances of finding you are zero, the other mods are way sharper so be careful. In his defense though, he likes thinking he's smart so you should play along with his antics from time to time.

(If you don't believe me just ask Nahash!)

I already got banned from my second account, it's why I'm perma banned and unable to even browse the forum outside of the google cache pages.

The only "real" crossover element, would be the inclusion of Novemeber 11, and his Ice magic.

It's been several years since I watched DtB, IIRC, ice magic was his assistant's power (the black girl) N11's was to teleport...and become naked, lol.

Your lack of knowlage shows, November 11 had Ice powers, April could summon rain, and July was a doll that could metal.

The naked teleportation was a girl from Amber's group, and a fat guy in episode 25.

So I got banned, spent a week off the forums, then set up a new account and got perma-banned.

So he perma-banned you because you kept using a signature he didn't like? A signature that no one other than himself (and mike) found to be provocative?

What? No, I got perma-Banned for dodging a ban, and I wouldn't have dodged the ban if I had been told how long it would last.

Honestly, even criminals get told how long their jail sentence is.

And how can I get in contact with Altima, when I can't even get on the front page? I already refreshed my ip address twice, so that's not what's being blocked.

1) Alt's email: ragaltima@hotmail.com
2) I think he's registered at forums.animesuki.com, but it's been years since I've to that place so I'm not sure.
3) Go to beast's lair via proxy, login/create new account and ask him.
4) Ask mike to be the 3rd party.

Right, I'll e-mail Altima in a bit, and see if I can't get him to send me my PM's.

 

[lask]

Actually I can't agree with you there, because if you look at their background, she didn't hate Shinji because she felt it was her fault, for taking his place. That he suffered the same abandonment as she did from her own family. Stockholm syndrome is developing a fondness for your assailant over time, so it's offbase to call it SS.

Honestly, I've never seen many people get Sakura right, and it might be because she is quite complex, not just some cliche Woobie, but someone who wears different faces just like Rin and Saber do.

As for the fic, I can say it could be interesting, but like somone else just said, this kind shoots a few elements of Verg's fic in the ass.

Part of of Stockholm syndrome IS developing sympethy for your assailant's possition and finding ways of justifying why had how they abuse you. You have just described Sakura's reaction to Shinji's abuse as classical Stockholm, she started out feeling worthless (because she was discarded by her father and sent so a man who immediately abused her by implanting things in her body. Incidentally, part of breaking someone down so is to take away control of there body; cuting hair, inflicting injures), and guilty because she was replacing him as heir.

Add a few years of sexual abuse, and yes, she a perfectly normal victime of Stockholm. She sympethises with her abuser, feeling that she is dirty and that she desirves to sufffer for it.