Nasuverse Darker Than FATE

[Cherry_lover]

Basicly, he never contirbutes anything useful to a thread, and will try and kill or derail all threads that don't give Sakura a happy ending, even if giving her a happy ending MAKES NO SENSE. Of course, he's also someone who calls her not hating Shinji strong, rather then a pretty common symptom of stockholm syndrome (which also ties in neatly with her self-hatred), so... He doesn't really care about her as a character, he cares about her as a symbol of perfection.

I've never said her not hating Shinji is "strong", just a sign of her kindness and forgiveness. As for Stockholm Syndrome, it doesn't fit that remotely well, because Stockholm Syndrome usually arises when the kidnapper is at least trying to make you like them, and further it generally takes time. Further, Sakura obeys Shinji and cares for him, she wouldn't do things that she was opposed to for his benefit (for instance, she would not kill Shirou if he ordered her to).

If you look at the definition of Stockholm Syndrome, her actions really do not fit it at all well. She just sees Shinji as her brother, and feels sorry for him because she "took her place".

And, yes, her attitude towards Shinji does have a lot to do with her self-hatred, because the fact that she sees herself as being less than nothing means she naturally feels that his relatively miniscule "suffering" is far more important than her own, and thus accepts that his abuse of her is "justified".

 

[AOG]

Actually I can't agree with you there, because if you look at their background, she didn't hate Shinji because she felt it was her fault, for taking his place. That he suffered the same abandonment as she did from her own family. Stockholm syndrome is developing a fondness for your assailant over time, so it's offbase to call it SS.

Honestly, I've never seen many people get Sakura right, and it might be because she is quite complex, not just some cliche Woobie, but someone who wears different faces just like Rin and Saber do.

As for the fic, I can say it could be interesting, but like somone else just said, this kind shoots a few elements of Verg's fic in the ass.

Part of of Stockholm syndrome IS developing sympethy for your assailant's possition and finding ways of justifying why had how they abuse you. You have just described Sakura's reaction to Shinji's abuse as classical Stockholm, she started out feeling worthless (because she was discarded by her father and sent so a man who immediately abused her by implanting things in her body. Incidentally, part of breaking someone down so is to take away control of there body; cuting hair, inflicting injures), and guilty because she was replacing him as heir.

Add a few years of sexual abuse, and yes, she a perfectly normal victime of Stockholm. She sympethises with her abuser, feeling that she is dirty and that she desirves to sufffer for it.

The difference is that she already was feeling bad for him before he became the assailant. And you don't really see her treating Zouken like that. There is the difference. The key word is "developing", since, like I just said, she pitied him before he started mistreating her, at least overtly.

 

[ttestagr]

Just because you pity your kidnapper/abuser, doesn't mean that you can't (and don't) develop SS. If anything, it'll just make it easier.

 

[Cherry_Fucker]

wait wtf am I doing here?

 

[MastaofBitches]

wait wtf am I doing here?

It's supposed to be a thread about an idea based on an alternate MoS ending, in which Sakura is dead.

Somehow, though, it's ended up as a Sakura debate...

You know, since I can't get on BL anymore, I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to put up with this anymore...

I am far to naive...

So, I'm gonna leave things as they are for the next... 2 pages, and if it's still a Sakura centric discussion, I'll tank the thread and repost the idea, hopeful allowing the thread to fulfil it's original purpose.

 

[Cherry_Fucker]

It's supposed to be a thread about an idea based on an alternate MoS ending, in which Sakura is dead.

Somehow, though, it's ended up as a Sakura debate...

You know, since I can't get on BL anymore, I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to put up with this anymore...

I am far to naive...

No, no. I was browsing the anime section and posted a reply and I found myself in this thread. Now I have to read the entire thing so that I know what's going here.

 

[MastaofBitches]

It's supposed to be a thread about an idea based on an alternate MoS ending, in which Sakura is dead.

Somehow, though, it's ended up as a Sakura debate...

You know, since I can't get on BL anymore, I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to put up with this anymore...

I am far to naive...

No, no. I was browsing the anime section and posted a reply and I found myself in this thread. Now I have to read the entire thing so that I know what's going here.

Ah, it's what happens when you have multiple windows open at the same time.

 

[AOG]

Just because you pity your kidnapper/abuser, doesn't mean that you can't (and don't) develop SS. If anything, it'll just make it easier.

True enough, but that doesn't seem concrete enough to make an absolute diagnosis. There is a possibility, but it is also equally possible to not be SS.

 

[Cherry_Fucker]

From what I understand:

Shirou = Hei; Cold, ruthless and deadly.
Illya = Yin; Silent and obedient.
White Len = Mao; Strategic advisor
Tohsaka = Huaung; Has lingering feelings for Shirou and wishes his old self to come back. Has orders from the Clock to keep on eye on him.
Misaki Kirihara = ??

Now for this idea, its an interesting idea, but I do not see any way of it ending except in tears (so very similar to Darker than Black). My key suggestion is not to draw so much from Darker than Black but take the general concept and not try to completely fit characters into Hei and his group's roles. And for their initial opponent? What the heck? A triad? They would be wiped out in days or even a week at most if they encountered MoS Shirou. He would just go in and destroy them all. Also why in the world would the Mage's Association want to kill them? They are below the MA's notice. You would need to equip them with magic or have a dead apostle there (wait only the church would be interested), or have a rogue mage there who might potentially reveal the existence of magic for them to be interested.

I agree, these kind of stories require a tragic ending (making a happy ending out of this would be hard) to add to the overall awesome of the fic. And I pretty much agree with everything else you've said.

However as for Ilya, do note that she would not have survived past the Grail War for long. She is a homunculous and would die very quickly after the war. (Perhaps 1 year at max if I remember correctly). Even if she did not die they would have to contend with the Einzbern family if they wanted to keep her. Not to mention the clock tower would be very interested in examining an Einzbern homunculous. You could handwavium it away though ;p

They could get in touch with Touko and get her a new body or something. And if someone wants to take Illya from a fucking MoS Shirou then god help them :sisi:

It's been several years since I watched DtB, IIRC, ice magic was his assistant's power (the black girl) N11's was to teleport...and become naked, lol.

Refresh your memory with this:
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Darker_than_Black_characters' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Darke...lack_characters</a>

To save people he need to win the Holy Grail. He will kill anyone in his path in order to do so. Is said in the novel that he won. Therefore the other participants either truly abandoned any intentions of wining the war or are dead.

Rin, who has fucking nothing to lose and is deep in the path of a cold hearted magus, will try to win at any cost, like a magus would. She wouldn't forfeit.

Hence why she is being drugged/locked in a basement. She can't exactly get in his way if she's all locked up now can she?

Zouken... he only lives for the sake of obtaining inmortality. He wouldn't let Shirou win.

Why exactly? Zouken never had an intention of participating in the 5th War, he just used Sakura as a "Ah, what the hell" plan.

Rider, if she managed to stay around, would want only to kill him, preventing him from attaining victory.

But would she know who killed Sakura? Its like you said, MoS would do anything to win, he'll probably go like "help me find Sakura's killer, please." only to stab her in the back later on. And the setting takes place after the Grail War has ended, unless if MoB decides to include flashbacks.

Illya is Berserker weak point. In the mindset of MoS it would be natural to kill her to destroy the hero.

Shirou goes to kill Ilya, finds Gilgamesh who kills Berserker, Shirou kills Gilgamesh, problem solved.

So, in the most likely end is: MoS happens everybody else dies.

1)Fiction.
2)Kaleidoscope.

Cherry F*&^(r only cares about Sakura. The rest of the cast could burn in hellfire and die a thousand times over and he would be happy as long as Sakura has her happy end. He conciders Heaven's Feel the happiest route even though it's the one where the most innocent people die.

whatdafuck.png

 

[Cherry_lover]

So, I'm gonna leave things as they are for the next... 2 pages, and if it's still a Sakura centric discussion, I'll tank the thread and repost the idea, hopeful allowing the thread to fulfil it's original purpose.

And, then, I'll post the same statement as before and it will go the exact same way.

If you don't like my opinion, then tough shit. I don't like yours, but that doesn't stop you from posting it. This fic is either hopelessly OOC or else just an outright troll fic, and I will keep saying that no matter how much you try to censor me.

You fail totally to understand the MoS ending, and just how much it affects Shirou, presumably because it would mean nothing to you, and thus you're making the presumption that he would basically carry on as before, protecting those close to him (like Rin and Ilya), excepting for the most extreme of circumstances. Whereas, in reality (as you would know if you'd actually played the game), it would turn him into Kiritsugu mark 2, and thus he would have no hesitation in killing Rin, Ilya and anyone else that gets in the way of him destroying the Grail.

They could get in touch with Touko and get her a new body or something. And if someone wants to take Illya from a fucking MoS Shirou then god help them :sisi:

They could, yes, but they wouldn't.

For one thing, Ilya would want nothing to do with MoS Shirou. If you read the game (which, BTW, MoB hasn't), it's clear that Ilya views his actions there as a personal betrayal (remember, she was the one who convinced him to support the people he cares for first in the canon ending), and further he has become the person she hates the most, i.e. her father. Secondly, even if she did want to have a relationship with him, he would kill her, because it's a million times easier than killing Berserker and, besides, she's the Grail in any case, so getting rid of her ends the war.

Further, finding Touko is not easy. It took Rin a year to find a body, and she had to sell the Matou magic books to afford it. And, even then she never found Touko herself, only one of her doll bodies. There is no way in hell MoS Shirou would put that amount of effort into finding a body for Ilya, even if she somehow wanted one having been betrayed by him just like she was "betrayed" by her father. Every moment he spent looking for it is a moment he could be saving others, and the resources he would use to pay for it would be resources he could use to pay for other things instead.

Hence why she is being drugged/locked in a basement. She can't exactly get in his way if she's all locked up now can she?

And why, exactly, would Kotomine do that? What does he have to gain from it? And, even if he did, Rin would make damn sure that Shirou paid for it.

Shirou goes to kill Ilya, finds Gilgamesh who kills Berserker, Shirou kills Gilgamesh, problem solved.

Except that you missed out the "Gilgamesh rips Ilya's heart out" bit. You know, like actually happens in canon....

 

[AOG]

Shirou = Hei; Cold, ruthless and deadly.
Illya = Yin; Silent and obedient.
White Len = Mao; Strategic advisor
Tohsaka = Huaung; Has lingering feelings for Shirou and wishes his old self to come back. Has orders from the Clock to keep on eye on him.
Misaki Kirihara = ??

If anything, I think Rin should be the "Misaki" of the group if you have to make things romantic between them (which in turn already makes it different from Verg's fic, since she should be dead, you're better off just working on your own plan). You could have a regular person be Huang. Hmm, I'd honestly say go for an original character if you want to fit somebody with Huang. Maybe Touko.

Although honestly I can't say that this fic will work with that setup. Rin has a good head on her shoulders but in this instance I see her really heated and if she's actually alive, she won't be at all professional with him. Shirou would have to lay awake at night, because she'll just hunt him down. So no, you can't really use her for Huang, or Misaki now that I think about it, and romantic development with this is....extremely unlikely, except if you made Touko Huang and set her up with Shirou, which would be the weirdest pairing ever.

 

[shioran toushin]

ok people thank you for not following the Sakura debate and return to the premise
Edited because i was perpetuating the conflict -_-

 

[AOG]

EDIT: Thank you.

 

[MastaofBitches]

Shirou = Hei; Cold, ruthless and deadly.
Illya = Yin; Silent and obedient.
White Len = Mao; Strategic advisor
Tohsaka = Huaung; Has lingering feelings for Shirou and wishes his old self to come back. Has orders from the Clock to keep on eye on him.
Misaki Kirihara = ??

If anything, I think Rin should be the "Misaki" of the group if you have to make things romantic between them (which in turn already makes it different from Verg's fic, since she should be dead, you're better off just working on your own plan). You could have a regular person be Huang. Hmm, I'd honestly say go for an original character if you want to fit somebody with Huang. Maybe Touko.

Although honestly I can't say that this fic will work with that setup. Rin has a good head on her shoulders but in this instance I see her really heated and if she's actually alive, she won't be at all professional with him. Shirou would have to lay awake at night, because she'll just hunt him down. So no, you can't really use her for Huang, or Misaki now that I think about it, and romantic development with this is....extremely unlikely, except if you made Touko Huang and set her up with Shirou, which would be the weirdest pairing ever.

The fic isn't exactly meant to be overly romantic, it's just supposed to focus mostly on Shirou gradually evoolving from an emotionless mage killer, into a character more like a fusion of himself and Archer.

I just thought using characters he's already familiar with would make it easier for him to understand them.

 

[AOG]

Shirou = Hei; Cold, ruthless and deadly.
Illya = Yin; Silent and obedient.
White Len = Mao; Strategic advisor
Tohsaka = Huaung; Has lingering feelings for Shirou and wishes his old self to come back. Has orders from the Clock to keep on eye on him.
Misaki Kirihara = ??

If anything, I think Rin should be the "Misaki" of the group if you have to make things romantic between them (which in turn already makes it different from Verg's fic, since she should be dead, you're better off just working on your own plan). You could have a regular person be Huang. Hmm, I'd honestly say go for an original character if you want to fit somebody with Huang. Maybe Touko.

Although honestly I can't say that this fic will work with that setup. Rin has a good head on her shoulders but in this instance I see her really heated and if she's actually alive, she won't be at all professional with him. Shirou would have to lay awake at night, because she'll just hunt him down. So no, you can't really use her for Huang, or Misaki now that I think about it, and romantic development with this is....extremely unlikely, except if you made Touko Huang and set her up with Shirou, which would be the weirdest pairing ever.

The fic isn't exactly meant to be overly romantic, it's just supposed to focus mostly on Shirou gradually evoolving from an emotionless mage killer, into a character more like a fusion of himself and Archer.

I just thought using characters he's already familiar with would make it easier for him to understand them.

The greatest issue with most people trying to preserve any of the remaining heroines for any Mind of Steel fic is that Shirou will undoubtedly be isolated. The ending is supposed to represent a type of "burning the bridges" type of scenario for him.

Ilya will feel pity for him, but she will be more than a little angry and try to exact her frustration and years of isolation onto him, making her wholly unsuited for a partnership. Rin I don't need to go into, since I've already explained it.
The only person who he might 'maybe' be able to partner up with is an outside character or Kotomine/Gil (and that won't exactly be the best relationship for him to latch onto).

 

[MastaofBitches]

Shirou = Hei; Cold, ruthless and deadly.
Illya = Yin; Silent and obedient.
White Len = Mao; Strategic advisor
Tohsaka = Huaung; Has lingering feelings for Shirou and wishes his old self to come back. Has orders from the Clock to keep on eye on him.
Misaki Kirihara = ??

If anything, I think Rin should be the "Misaki" of the group if you have to make things romantic between them (which in turn already makes it different from Verg's fic, since she should be dead, you're better off just working on your own plan). You could have a regular person be Huang. Hmm, I'd honestly say go for an original character if you want to fit somebody with Huang. Maybe Touko.

Although honestly I can't say that this fic will work with that setup. Rin has a good head on her shoulders but in this instance I see her really heated and if she's actually alive, she won't be at all professional with him. Shirou would have to lay awake at night, because she'll just hunt him down. So no, you can't really use her for Huang, or Misaki now that I think about it, and romantic development with this is....extremely unlikely, except if you made Touko Huang and set her up with Shirou, which would be the weirdest pairing ever.

The fic isn't exactly meant to be overly romantic, it's just supposed to focus mostly on Shirou gradually evoolving from an emotionless mage killer, into a character more like a fusion of himself and Archer.

I just thought using characters he's already familiar with would make it easier for him to understand them.

The greatest issue with most people trying to preserve any of the remaining heroines for any Mind of Steel fic is that Shirou will undoubtedly be isolated. The ending is supposed to represent a type of "burning the bridges" type of scenario for him.

Ilya will feel pity for him, but she will be more than a little angry and try to exact her frustration and years of isolation onto him, making her wholly unsuited for a partnership. Rin I don't need to go into, since I've already explained it.
The only person who he might 'maybe' be able to partner up with is an outside character or Kotomine/Gil (and that won't exactly be the best relationship for him to latch onto).

I'd be trying to aim for something where, despite it's mind of steel origins, it's really just Shirou attempting to shut down his emotions in order to stop himself being completely overcome with guilt.

He konws, and understands, that what he did was fundementally what was best for "The Greater Good" but the guilt of killing the woman he loves, who also happened to be the sister of one of his friends, drives him to the point of simply shutting his humanity down.

Illya follows him out of pity, she knows how bad a life of lonelyness can get, and she knows what he's doing to himself, and wants him to stop, because he's still her big brother.

 

[Cherry_Fucker]

So, I'm gonna leave things as they are for the next... 2 pages, and if it's still a Sakura centric discussion, I'll tank the thread and repost the idea, hopeful allowing the thread to fulfil it's original purpose.

And, then, I'll post the same statement as before and it will go the exact same way.

You fail totally to understand the MoS ending, and just how much it affects Shirou, presumably because it would mean nothing to you, and thus you're making the presumption that he would basically carry on as before, protecting those close to him (like Rin and Ilya), excepting for the most extreme of circumstances. Whereas, in reality (as you would know if you'd actually played the game), it would turn him into Kiritsugu mark 2, and thus he would have no hesitation in killing Rin, Ilya and anyone else that gets in the way of him destroying the Grail.

Darker Than Fate: A fanfiction planned by MoB where Illya and Rin do not get in Shirou's way/are no longer a threat towards him some point during the war, thus giving Shirou no reason to kill them.

For one thing, Ilya would want nothing to do with MoS Shirou. If you read the game (which, BTW, MoB hasn't), it's clear that Ilya views his actions there as a personal betrayal (remember, she was the one who convinced him to support the people he cares for first in the canon ending), and further he has become the person she hates the most, i.e. her father. Secondly, even if she did want to have a relationship with him, he would kill her, because it's a million times easier than killing Berserker and, besides, she's the Grail in any case, so getting rid of her ends the war.

So how about this: Sakura later revives into the Grail, but since she's been dead for quite a few days, she is no longer functioning as a human. Illya can no longer become the Grail and Shirou cements his ideal and kills any humanity within him as he kills Sakura once more and for good this time.

Further, finding Touko is not easy. It took Rin a year to find a body, and she had to sell the Matou magic books to afford it. And, even then she never found Touko herself, only one of her doll bodies. There is no way in hell MoS Shirou would put that amount of effort into finding a body for Ilya, even if she somehow wanted one having been betrayed by him just like she was "betrayed" by her father. Every moment he spent looking for it is a moment he could be saving others, and the resources he would use to pay for it would be resources he could use to pay for other things instead.

In Nerroth's fics, that Irish Seonac found Touko with relative ease, but you didn't bitch and whine about that because it involved saving Sakura. Let me repeat: Due to the power of 1)Fanfiction and 2)Kaleidoscope, it is possible to find Touko. And this is just us speculating how Illya survives post the War, in the fic MoB's writing she's already alive.

And why, exactly, would Kotomine do that? What does he have to gain from it?

All Kotomine wants is enjoyment and nothing more. He would do it for the sake of trolling obviously.

And, even if he did, Rin would make damn sure that Shirou paid for it.

Shirou: Hey Koto, erase her memories please.
Kotomine: kk, lol.
???
Profit.

Except that you missed out the "Gilgamesh rips Ilya's heart out" bit. You know, like actually happens in canon....

Have you read Verg's Faker? It involves a portion where Illya survives and Gilgamesh dies.

Touko Huang and set her up with Shirou, which would be the weirdest pairing ever.

Touko x Shirou? Weird certainly, but definitely has potential.

The fic isn't exactly meant to be overly romantic, it's just supposed to focus mostly on Shirou gradually evoolving from an emotionless mage killer, into a character more like a fusion of himself and Archer.

I just thought using characters he's already familiar with would make it easier for him to understand them.

I'd be trying to aim for something where, despite it's mind of steel origins, it's really just Shirou attempting to shut down his emotions in order to stop himself being completely overcome with guilt.

He konws, and understands, that what he did was fundementally what was best for "The Greater Good" but the guilt of killing the woman he loves, who also happened to be the sister of one of his friends, drives him to the point of simply shutting his humanity down.

Illya follows him out of pity, she knows how bad a life of lonelyness can get, and she knows what he's doing to himself, and wants him to stop, because he's still her big brother.

I think these statements should be placed on the first page so newcomers can have a better understanding of your fiction.

 

[MastaofBitches]

The fic isn't exactly meant to be overly romantic, it's just supposed to focus mostly on Shirou gradually evoolving from an emotionless mage killer, into a character more like a fusion of himself and Archer.

I just thought using characters he's already familiar with would make it easier for him to understand them.

I'd be trying to aim for something where, despite it's mind of steel origins, it's really just Shirou attempting to shut down his emotions in order to stop himself being completely overcome with guilt.

He konws, and understands, that what he did was fundementally what was best for "The Greater Good" but the guilt of killing the woman he loves, who also happened to be the sister of one of his friends, drives him to the point of simply shutting his humanity down.

Illya follows him out of pity, she knows how bad a life of lonelyness can get, and she knows what he's doing to himself, and wants him to stop, because he's still her big brother.

I think these statements should be placed on the first page so newcomers can have a better understanding of your fiction.

Hmm, you may be right...

 

[Cherry_lover]

Shirou: Hey Koto, erase her memories please.
Kotomine: kk, lol.
???
Profit.

OK, now, refer to your previous statement (regarding Kotomine trolling) and then answer me the question of why the fuck Kotomine would erase Rin's memories. Even ignoring the fact that he likely can't, because I don't think that it can be done on a magus of similar or much greater power than you (Rin doesn't seem to have been able to do it to Sakura in the Bad End in UBW where she makes Shirou forget about the war, judging from how she seems to be acting), he gains nothing from it.

Sparing Rin and locking her in the basement is just about plausible, but he wouldn't want her to forget what she did and what Shirou did, because that will massively reduce her suffering.

 

[Cherry_Fucker]

Shirou: Hey Koto, erase her memories please.
Kotomine: kk, lol.
???
Profit.

OK, now, refer to your previous statement (regarding Kotomine trolling) and then answer me the question of why the fuck Kotomine would erase Rin's memories.

Shirou: Hey Koto, erase her memories please.
Kotomine: kk, lol.
???
Profit.

Shirou asked him to. This is Kotomine we're talking about.

Even ignoring the fact that he likely can't, because I don't think that it can be done on a magus of similar or much greater power than you (Rin doesn't seem to have been able to do it to Sakura in the Bad End in UBW where she makes Shirou forget about the war, judging from how she seems to be acting)

Yes, you don't think it's possible, we need other people's input on this. And I proposed that for the case of story progression anway.

,he gains nothing from it.

He gains enjoyment, see below.

Sparing Rin and locking her in the basement is just about plausible, but he wouldn't want her to forget what she did and what Shirou did, because that will massively reduce her suffering.

How about this: Kotomine erases her memories while knowing that the effect will wear away as the years pass (since she's a better mage and all) therefore resulting in Rin regaining her memory several years laters which could cause the shit to hit the fan with Shirou.

 

[Cherry_lover]

Shirou asked him to. This is Kotomine we're talking about.

Yes, and?

Since when is "Shirou asked me to" a reason for Kotomine to do something? I'm pretty sure Shirou asked him to do a lot of things throughout the course of the game (such as not using the Grail...), and I don't recall Kotomine accepting.

Something like "heal this person" he would indeed do, because it's his job, but "wipe Rin's memory" is well outside that.

Yes, you don't think it's possible, we need other people's input on this.

Well, the way magic works it seems unlikely that it would be possible, at least not without Rin's agreement. She is simply too powerful a magus for Kotomine to wipe her memory like that.

He can beat her in a fight, yes, but in terms of outright magical skill Rin is light-years ahead.

And I proposed that for the case of story progression anway.

Yes, and I could propose Sakura suddenly miraculously awakening and Shirou falling madly in love with her for "story progression", and it wouldn't make it any more plausible.

He gains enjoyment, see below.

That seems somewhat dubious.

How about this: Kotomine erases her memories while knowing that the effect will wear away as the years pass (since she's a better mage and all) therefore resulting in Rin regaining her memory several years laters which could cause the shit to hit the fan with Shirou.

Well, this could work, possibly (given the very dubious assumption that Kotomine could wipe Rin's mind at all), but if so it would be certain to end very badly for them all, because Kotomine would not agree to do this unless he was damn sure it would bring him much trolling potential down the line (enough to over-ride the immediate trolling potential of not wiping it).

 

[Cherry_Fucker]

And I proposed that for the case of story progression anway.

Yes, and I could propose Sakura suddenly miraculously awakening and Shirou falling madly in love with her for "story progression", and it wouldn't make it any more plausible.

He gains enjoyment, see below.

That seems somewhat dubious.

Yes, and?

Since when is "Shirou asked me to" a reason for Kotomine to do something? I'm pretty sure Shirou asked him to do a lot of things throughout the course of the game (such as not using the Grail...), and I don't recall Kotomine accepting.

Something like "heal this person" he would indeed do, because it's his job, but "wipe Rin's memory" is well outside that.

How about this: Kotomine erases her memories while knowing that the effect will wear away as the years pass (since she's a better mage and all) therefore resulting in Rin regaining her memory several years laters which could cause the shit to hit the fan with Shirou.

Well, this could work, possibly (given the very dubious assumption that Kotomine could wipe Rin's mind at all), but if so it would be certain to end very badly for them all, because Kotomine would not agree to do this unless he was damn sure it would bring him much trolling potential down the line (enough to over-ride the immediate trolling potential of not wiping it).

That all boils down to MoB:

Of course, that would be the turning point in the fic, where characters have to pick their sides, or suffer the consequences, with Rin being the one with the hardest time choosing who to help.

Tohsaka Rin, of course, is not happy with that set up for three reasons:

He killed her sister.

He had Kirei lock her up in his basement until the war was over.

She loves Emiya Shirou, and hates the person who has replaced him.

 

[Ragnarock]

Yes, and I could propose Sakura suddenly miraculously awakening and Shirou falling madly in love with her for "story progression", and it wouldn't make it any more plausible.

........

MoS Shirou becomes MoS because he kills Sakura, a close person to him.

This fiction is about MoS Shirou.

You can't have a MoS Shirou without killing Sakura.

You can't have a MoS Shirou if you revive Sakura.

How the fuck does reviving Sakura contribute to story progression in a MoS fic?

Kotomine erasing Rin's memories helps her survive the war and be of use to Shirou, but "magically" reviving Sakura "suddenly" is nothing but ass-pull and wish-fulfillment.

Well, the way magic works it seems unlikely that it would be possible, at least not without Rin's agreement. She is simply too powerful a magus for Kotomine to wipe her memory like that.

He can beat her in a fight, yes, but in terms of outright magical skill Rin is light-years ahead.

IIRC Illya says (Fate, be4 kidnapping) that high class mages can't be subjected to manipulation magic since their protection is high or something. She then said you have to be extremely capable in order to cast a suggestion magic on them or they have to be unconscious. So if my memory is correct, It's possible for Kirei to erase Rin's memories (without consequences) if she's already knocked out cold.

edit:

on an a different note, did you get a reply from Alt yet Masta?

 

[MastaofBitches]

on an a different note, did you get a reply from Alt yet Masta?

Hmm? Yeah, he can't send me the contents of my PM's, mostly because he can't guarantee that I am who I say I am, so he's asked Irun to message me here instead.

Haven't heard if Irun's replied yet though.

 

[AOG]

Kotomine erasing Rin's memories helps her survive the war and be of use to Shirou, but "magically" reviving Sakura "suddenly" is nothing but ass-pull and wish-fulfillment.

That is pretty much as convenient as reviving a person suddenly would be, if she is only going to be a hindrance, he would just kill her then and there. Which is what happened in Verg's fic. As I said before, you're better off forgoing trying to use Rin here, besides, as a competent magus...

IIRC Illya says (Fate, be4 kidnapping) that high class mages can't be subjected to manipulation magic since their protection is high or something. She then said you have to be extremely capable in order to cast a suggestion magic on them or they have to be unconscious. So if my memory is correct, It's possible for Kirei to erase Rin's memories (without consequences) if she's already knocked out cold.

can't work, because she would later be wary of the block in her memory or flush his prana out of her system. It's why people say that manipulating the consciousness of other magi is so hard, just like using reinforcement on a body that isn't yours. It's not worth it.