Fairy Tail Discussion Thread

[Lord Raine]

Whether or not he's dead has no bearing on whether or not he could possess someone. We know for a fact that his body was destroyed, and there were multiple scenes all but confirming possession, not the least of which being a dark shadow entering Gerard's body, after which point his personality, disposition, and motivation change utterly.

Possession was obviously present, and though Gerard was presented some choices on the matter, they all occurred after he was initially possessed. Thus, he cannot be held fully accountable for any of them, because he was not in his right state of mind.

Side thought is anyone else disturbed at how easy it is to revive someone in this series... i mean all you need is to have wendy blow you.

No, because she hasn't done anything I haven't seen done a billion times before by other medics in other stories, genres, comics, and series.

Revive is a terrible word to use. It implies that she's brought people back from the dead, and she hasn't. No one has, actually, though that doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible. She's healed wounds, restored stamina, and I think she took care of a poison once. That's all standard-issue medic stuff, and pretty unremarkable on the whole in terms of power. Especially seeing how, as a True Slayer, her magic is by default innately more powerful than anything else in the series thus far.

 

[Takerial]

Mmmmh, forgot about the mind control true.

@Takerial: My problem with your point of view is that:

1?) it's not partial amnesia of a few things, he doesn't remember pretty muh everything about his life. He ISN'T Gerard right now, or at least that's what he pretends.

2?) In life, it's innocent until proven guilty. You don't go around incacerating or killing someone because of 'might'.

What doubt is there that he didn't do the crime? Or did you not read the manga at all?

Are you referring to how the people arresting him would know? The council already knew about Gerard's existence to begin with, long before the arc. It is not unreasonable that others would as well. The very fact that a dark guild was aware of who Gerard was and his actions, I don't think they were very well hidden.

And it would certainly be enough to bring the person in for questioning. Granted, they most likely have more proof than that considering it is a magic world.

It is partial amnesia as well. He fully retains all of his working memories by evidence of him not only know the language, but able to perform magic still. This leads to the conclusion that his experience based memories was the one affected.

However, by the fact that he has slowly been regaining said memories over the period of the time, Ezra's last name and his belief in Natsu. While it doesn't seem like much, again it has only been what, a day since his revival? That's a pretty short term case of amnesia if he's gaining memories back that fast.

And again, considering he never lost his working memories, there are still things within him that make up a big chunk of who he is, his nature. So while he might not fully be Gerard, he is still Gerard.

And he wasn't possessed. He was for sure being manipulated by UR (she outright states that btw.) and has been following what he believed to be Zerief but he was in control of himself. The only thing you can make a suggestion of under this would be diminished capacity. But the thing about diminished capacity is that HE IS STILL GUILTY of his crime, just not to the full extent.

 

[Lord Raine]

Don't claim to know what wiped his memory. That's when you cross the line from having a different opinion and interpretation of the same thing to making up facts to support your side. You cannot prove, or even theorize, that what is afflicting him is normal, mundane, IRL amnesia. Plus, given the events that left him that way, it almost certainly is not.

We don't know what happened to Gerard. The point of contention is not what malady is afflicting him, but whether or not someone who's memories have been wiped clean can be held accountable for past actions, for good or ill.

I haven't talked like it isn't amnesia, just about the magnitude of the wipe itself. So don't start talking like it is. You don't know that.

 

[ZeroForever]

since mind wipes (hell, the the entire fucking scenario isn't real) it's all conjuncture, we can't prove shit in any direction; however using the closest RL example 'amnesia' as Takerial noted you would still be guilty though they may lessen the charge.

end result - my personal opinion is a mind wipe wouldn't excuse past crimes and they are in the right for arresting/prosecuting him.

obviously Raine is the opposite.

agree to disagree so this thread can die.

 

[The Eromancer]

ya get right down to it, its rather simple.

He was possessed that was not Gerard in control of the body, the body was just a tool at best. Are you gonna blame the gun that kill someone who the man pulling the trigger? its the same damn argument.

Now its true however that when it comes to magic there's just way to many variants to take into consideration to make a completely accurate call, especially since we are still being shown new ways to use magic in the Fairy Tail world and we haven't seen ALL that those we have been shown are capable of.

However as its made pretty clear that it was an outside force that influenced Gerard's actions it comes down to this choice.

But in the end the choice we have to make is, are we to look at his actions as if he was influenced -like a drug addict- or full on controlled like a puppet?

 

[Takerial]

Don't claim to know what wiped his memory. That's when you cross the line from having a different opinion and interpretation of the same thing to making up facts to support your side. You cannot prove, or even theorize, that what is afflicting him is normal, mundane, IRL amnesia. Plus, given the events that left him that way, it almost certainly is not.

We don't know what happened to Gerard. The point of contention is not what malady is afflicting him, but whether or not someone who's memories have been wiped clean can be held accountable for past actions, for good or ill.

I haven't talked like it isn't amnesia, just about the magnitude of the wipe itself. So don't start talking like it is. You don't know that.

It is amnesia. It actually mostly depends on what type of amnesia. I don't know what caused it, though the most likely cause would be all that freaken magical energy but that's something else.

Now as for suggesting what type of amnesia, temporary, that is me suggesting the most likely possibility with evidence. If it was something that actually damaged his memories and not just block them, it should have affected his working memory as well. But it didn't.

Now as for whether this block is permenant or not. Well the fact that he is already remembering things shows that it is wearing off. Hence, temporary amnesia.

And Eromancer. HE WAS NOT POSSESSED. He was manipulated to the point that you could argue brainwashing. But that's not being possessed. He was still in cotrol of his actions and what he did. He was not being forced to do anything. Ur outright STATES this.

http://www.onemanga.com/Fairy_Tail/102/19/

Is manipulation, not possession.

 

[the DragonBard]

No, Ur does 'not' say that. Simply because that is not Ur, that is Ur's daughter, Ultear. Ur was Grey's magic teacher and has been playing the part of an ice prison for the past several years until her recent death/destruction.

Though what was said seems to be correct.

 

[Takerial]

Sorry, I shortened it to Ur cause I don't like the way the tear looks. Forgot that's her mother's name.

 

[The Eromancer]

I stand corrected then. However such a radical change in personality could be described as possession.

Regardless though, it shows plainly his entire personality was warped, this is not just a change of heart, this is full on Jedi mind whammy. His amnesia could very well be caused by him being freed of the brainwashing, it was magical in nature so you can't say he willingly CHOSE to be an evil bastard.

Just about as good as possession I say, the man is innocent of crime under plea on insanity. He wasn't in his right mind, he wasn't even in control of himself as the un-brainwashed Gerrard has shown himself to be quite a bit more caring and considerate of others.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

Seriously guys? I mean when this first started I outright said this is a highly opinionated topic that will really get us no where when we argue about it. Meh, let's get a few points of order out of the way regardless:

1. Whether you agree that the Gerard now is a 'different person' or not, whether his amnesia is permanent or not, him being allowed to roam free as any citizen, even given he helped defeat the Oracion Seis would be stupid of all parties involved. At bare minimum he should be under watch for a certain period of time. Because whether or not the memories are coming back, that the possibility is there regardless, minuscule as it may or may not be depending on how the magics involved work, makes him a large enough threat that that alone should be required. He's one of the 10 bloody holy mages, among the strongest there is. Even if he has only a like .05% chance of turning rouge again, that's risking a hell of a lot just letting him off willy nilly.

2. Regardless on your opinion of whether Gerard is innocent or guilty by your own interpretation of this Amnesia thing, getting full punishment (Ie: Death or Life Imprisonment) is a little harsh no matter how you look at it. If not due to the amnesia, at the very least because he did offer up a rather large aid in stopping Nirvana. Again he's one of the 10 holy mages, granted a little weaker than before now, but still up there once the damage from the Self Destruct goes away and he brushes up a little. He could do more 'good' alive than dead if he stays like this. That alone should make them stop and considering giving the dude a chance rather than going all freaking out.

3. Everything else in between like how much he should be held accountable (I'd personally go so far as to have him literally in service to the government for a certain period of time to make sure he keeps up doing good deeds before letting him off, still under heavy watch as DANGEROUS MAN IS DANGEROUS) ultimately depends on how you personally interpret all the extenuating circumstances going on here, which pretty much falls down to opinion. Highly philosophical opinion that is very difficult to find an honest to God answer to that everyone can agree on.


As for this being as good as possession... yeah no. There was a choice involved that was made by him, that scene with the ghost showed that much. Granted he was no where near in full control of that choice, even if he DIDN'T have any magic working on his mind as that situation was pretty bad for a kid, but until more information is revealed I wouldn't say it's anywhere near having literally no choice in the matter as it would be with possession.

Make no mistake, I wouldn't hold him fully accountable at all, but he still had some control to say the freaking least. Otherwise there'd be literally no reason for Ur's daughter to simply pretend to be subservient to him. If she's in control, why pretend not to be?

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

OH SNAP, THEY WERE ALL A LIE!!! THE DUDE'S A GHOST!!!

 

[Lord Raine]

What host?

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

Who else gets scanslations this early? The only one with a contract with the devil of course.

 

[fenixzero]

Thats three for fairy tail, and all of the known ones too. . .

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

I want to call BS, as there were two other perfectly good guilds right there and claiming her immediately like that is a little unfair, but not only does that make the most sense, as Natsu probably has the biggest 'bond' with her in the group at this point, but Mistgun is probably the one who was with her in the first place, so plot is naturally going to flow immediately after this, provided he shows up soon.

Oh, and both her and Erza have the whole Gerard thing going on. :mellow:

 

[Crusader]

New chapter is up.

Fairy Tail 164

I can't help but feel sorry for Wendy here.

 

[The Eromancer]

So Fairy Tail gains ANOTHER Dragon Slayer, hmmmm interesting.

Oh WAIT, does this mean the girl's clothing is going to dissapear as well?! :evil:

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

OH SNAP! New arc is starting fast, beginning with the return of Gildartz. Next chapter title is especially intriguing. I heavily doubt it's going to be Gildartz though, not a reveal that quickly. More likely this will be tied to either Anima, the Grimore Heart Guild, or Zeref. As in a legit one this time, as opposed to a Slayer. Why? Because Gildartz is so PWNAGE apparently that he'd definitely take on a mission like that. 100 year quests for the WTF.

Oh, and Gazille panicking over lacking a cat was great lulz indeed.

 

[fenixzero]

OH SNAP! New arc is starting fast, beginning with the return of Gildartz. Next chapter title is especially intriguing. I heavily doubt it's going to be Gildartz though, not a reveal that quickly. More likely this will be tied to either Anima, the Grimore Heart Guild, or Zeref. As in a legit one this time, as opposed to a Slayer. Why? Because Gildartz is so PWNAGE apparently that he'd definitely take on a mission like that. 100 year quests for the WTF.

Oh, and Gazille panicking over lacking a cat was great lulz indeed.

I'm more amazed at Mistgun being in the guild and not putting everyone to sleep.

And I do think that back shot was of Gildartz. With I semi-ominous sounding title like 'Black Dragon', I think that Fairy Tail is finally going to really need those Dragon Slayers.

And LULZ at the guys pointed out that Fairy Tail now has three users of a supposedly rare magic, Dragon Slayer.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

It looked like there was no one around him, so I suppose Wendy made him come out of wherever he usually hides when he's too lazy to put everyone to sleep. Well that or the incident with Erza made him less forceful about hiding his face given the one person he didn't want to see it saw it.

 

[Crusader]

Fairy Tail 165 is up.

 

[Knyght]

Seeing as it doesn't specify, I suppose I can talk about the anime here as well.

New OP for Fairy Tail. I preferred the first one; it was catchier and more up-beat.

 

[Crusader]

Fairy Tail Chapter 166

Using the door seems like a cempletely foreign concept to Gildarts Crive, but he's tough enough to admit that he failed this 100 years quest and that gives him a plus in my book.

 

[Lord Raine]

Forget that, he's tough enough to walk away from a fight where he lost a leg and a bunch of organs. Not 'was damaged.' Lost. That's fucking hardcore.

Also, it seems as though there are evil dragons, and they're probably going to be the Final Bosses?. Naturally, no human no matter how badass can defeat a dragon. Naturally, only a Dragonslayer can. Naturally, Fairy Tail currently has three Slayers. This is apparently not a coincidence, going by the Master's dialogue. Calling it now; Fate is either literally Fate, or a mage who's magic can manipulate fate and probability.


Also, when I first saw the chapter name, I thought Gildartz was a Slayer too, and 'Black Dragon' was referring to him. That would have been pretty cool, but to be honest, I like him better this way. Him being a 'normal' mage (relatively speaking) seems to fit better.

I also like that he's older. We've seen way too many people in their twenties being called top-class mages. It's about time we saw a forty-something year old badass.

 

[Crusader]

Forget that, he's tough enough to walk away from a fight where he lost a leg and a bunch of organs. Not 'was damaged.' Lost. That's fucking hardcore.

Good point. It's good to see some character's that seem able to get over the loss of limbs and other organs and still being able to say he failed with a smile.

Also, it seems as though there are evil dragons, and they're probably going to be the Final Bosses?. Naturally, no human no matter how badass can defeat a dragon. Naturally, only a Dragonslayer can. Naturally, Fairy Tail currently has three Slayers. This is apparently not a coincidence, going by the Master's dialogue. Calling it now; Fate is either literally Fate, or a mage who's magic can manipulate fate and probability.

Fairy Tail certainly has become more powerful as a guild now that they have three of them.

Also, when I first saw the chapter name, I thought Gildartz was a Slayer too, and 'Black Dragon' was referring to him. That would have been pretty cool, but to be honest, I like him better this way. Him being a 'normal' mage (relatively speaking) seems to fit better.

I think Hiro Mashima wanted the readers to get that first impression from the first pages until he revealed the meaning of the chapter title. If Fairy Tail's gonna get more Slayers I think Mashima's going go through some chapters before adding a new one.

=Lord Raine]I also like that he's older. We've seen way too many people in their twenties being called top-class mages. It's about time we saw a forty-something year old badass.

Hopefully we'll get to see more powerful mages in their forties and older.