Nasuverse FSN + SAO

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
biigoh said:
Muramasa said:
You know, I just can't imagine Ilya with something like a 2 handed long sword strapped to her back without the scabbard comically dragging on the floor...

Huh... Well I guess that's not too bad...


Well... Illya with a Big F Sword~
Yeah, but that's adult Ilya, who's about the same height as her mother was. Now imagine Ilya-who-looks-twelve holding a sword the size her adult self is holding, there.

On the fic, I'm quite enjoying it.
 

Mu-sensei

Well-Known Member
Sanosuke Sagara. He had to carry his BFS instead of using a sheath but he could use a sword bigger than himself with no issues due to his immense strength. Yes, he wasn't small by any means, but the proportions would be around the same.

Do note that there are six canon styles of sword:

One Handed Sword
Two Handed Sword
Zanbatou - 74th boss
Katana
Dual Blades
Holy Sword

Ilya isn't using Zanbatou (BFS style). She is using THW. It's just slightly bigger than an average One handed one, and broader. IIRC, a IRL one handed sword measures 80-90cm on the blade alone, and a two handed one is between 110-120cm. Ilya stands at 130-140, -1/6 of head(if Drawing classes doesn't fail me) makes for 105-115cm, which is more than enough if you recall said blade isn't sheathed vertically. That makes the drawing of the sword awkward. If she sheathes it, she wouldn't be able to crouch. She'd be able to walk just fine though.

And if you remember the anime, SAO is very realistic about blade sizes. So yeah, awkward, but NOT impossible.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
Mu-sensei said:
Sanosuke Sagara. He had to carry his BFS instead of using a sheath but he could use a sword bigger than himself with no issues due to his immense strength....

And if you remember the anime, SAO is very realistic about blade sizes.
You basically made two points here:
1) A fictional character from another series did something similar.
2) Point (1) is is completely irrelevant.

In conclusion,
Nothing.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
This is a discussion about a fiction take on two fictional series in regards to sword wielding in which you are pulling things out of your imagination. Therefore his comment was completely relevant.
 

Mu-sensei

Well-Known Member
*Facepalms.* Okay, I should have been clearer. I tried to make two points mentioning Sano:

1. You don't really have to have Ilya carry the sword in a sheath. She could even draw it from the menu, and have a -unarmed- style in the sleeve for emergencies. (Canon!Kirito needed ~10 seconds to Equip his second blade, and he hadn't trained to do it. With practice and time (and memorizing the Menu), maybe she could do it in 1~2 secs?).

2. While a larger sword should increase damage, there are disadvantages on having a sword over-sized in comparison to your height, even if you have an overwhelming strength to match.

Sano's great strength allows him to wield his zanbatō with relative ease but its size limits it to simple vertical and lateral attacks, making it easy to read. -wiki
Then, I made an extra point of the fact that her sword isn't nearly as oversized as Sano's, seeing as SAO has more realistic-like blades.

Is it clearer now?

Also, you could have Ilya use a Two-Handed-Ax, or a Halberd (like Leysritt). That would make an awesome twist of character, and still keep the Little Girl - Huge Weapon feel.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
A strength build shouldn't have to rely on crippling attacks unless crippling attacks require high strength.
 

chrnno

Well-Known Member
happerry said:
If you can cripple easily, why not?
I suppose so that when inevitably you get in a situation where it doesn't work you are not crippled...
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
Man if only Ilya had something else to rely on then her sword like magic or something huh

ANYWAY: content.

I I I

3.2 VS Illfang

With 52 people, the most obvious way to divide everyone up was to make a complete [Raid Party] of 48 people and put the remaining four people in their own party, and in their own Raid. Frankly speaking, that’s where Kirito thought he would end up. As a solo player, he didn’t have the strong bonds with other players that would make anyone request that he party with them, but in the first place, it wasn’t arrogance to say he was strong enough that he didn’t need the support, either.

But that is not what Diabel did. Instead he split the gathered groups into two balanced [Raids].

It was just a designation, but the [White Raid] was four parties of max size, so out of the 52 volunteers that had gathered, a total of 24 were in that group. Meanwhile, the remaining 28 people were in five parties, although since 28 wasn’t evenly divisible by six, the result was that they wouldn’t all be maxed out parties.

Frankly speaking, the logic of the division became pretty obvious. Although the groups were approximately balanced, that was really more of a coincidence that people had already tended to organize into maxed out parties where every role was filled to begin with. Since survivability was paramount, when people went out to level, it was natural they would fully embrace the maxim [Safety in Numbers]. It wasn’t just an issue of ganging up on mobs, but also that comrades could watch your back for you.

Well, the immediate result was that the [White Raid] and the [Red Raid] were balanced. No, because every party was balanced and everyone was already around [Level 10], it meant that you would have had to work at it to make these two groups asymmetrical.

And the logic was—

“During the Beta Test, the [First Floor Boss] was named [Illfang the Kobold Lord], and he was escorted by a total of [12 Ruin Sentinels] that popped in groups. Assuming that will be the same, the [Red Raid] will attack the Boss, while my [White Raid] will handle the [Ruin Sentinels], or other escort monsters, as they appear.”

Diabel had taken the 24 people that were his [Followers], or rather, the people that would be joining his [Guild] once that system was unlocked, and then everyone else was put in the other [Raid]. That could have been a source of concern about unfairness, but at the same time, Diabel had chosen to sacrifice the possibility of the [Last Attack Bonus] and taken on the more difficult to coordinate role of fighting the mooks. Like that, there was no need to criticize him, indeed you could only praise him for his leadership.

Still…

“Is this really going to be okay?” Kirito muttered to no one.

Yes, at this point, he felt something like a [Ruin Sentinel] himself.

“Mou! So rude!” That is what the raid commander said with an adorable pout while Kirito wallowed in concerns. Well, she wandered off to chat with others rather than continue to scold him, so Kirito just watched her go.

In the [Red Raid], composed of four full-sized parties and a fifth party that was only two-thirds full, he was given the effective role of [Commander’s Bodyguard] to the [Raid Leader]. Naturally, the under-strength party was the one with the [Raid Leader] in it. Well, he believed in the strength of one of his party members because he had seen what Asuna was capable of with his own eyes, but the abilities of the one called [SHIROU] or even the commander herself, [Von Ilya], were unknown. Well, he would trust in her strength as one beta tester to another, but the guy in the stupid helmet was a complete mystery.

With a huff, she ignored him and turned to the group at large. “Right! Has everyone maxed their buffs?” With a cute voice she asked a slangy question, and a cheer rose up as she smiled at the assembled players.

Even Kirito went “Osu”, although he only half-heatedly raised his arm and even then, his voice trailed off. The reason she had become [Raid Commander]… Kirito really hoped it was just because of her overwhelming personality and not because a majority of these players had [Weird Proclivities].

But, even so, he opened his menu to check his stats and equipment, just like everyone else. Everyone had been milling around and casting [Spells]. It was obvious that Diabel was going to give a speech, but he had first announced they would be taking a break here to regain their breath.

How anyone could remain calm in the shadow of the [Boss Door] was a mystery to Kirito. Well, at least the various mobs had been cleared from the area, so there was no need to worry about getting caught off guard. A few players at either end of the hall were functionally sentries as well, although Kirito found his eyes sliding to the [Door] a lot.

He shook his head and went back to his menu.

[Sword Art Online] had a surprisingly inflexible statistics system. Some people would call it simple, but that wasn’t quite accurate. Players could only choose to level [Strength] or [Agility], but there were several secondary statistics that were derived from those, as well as accumulated play data. So, like skills, the secondary statistics like [Vitality] got stronger the more players relied on them. So, because the player input was limited to just selecting [STR] or [AGI], it was better to say it was inflexible rather than simple.

At level One, Players started with a score of five in both of their attributes. Each level past that, they received five stat points that they could distribute between them. Therefore, a player that completely specialized in one stat could theoretically have a score of [5 x level] in their chosen stat, while the other remained at the starting value of 5. In the beta, those kinds of unbalanced builds were hard to play, but not impossible. Generally speaking there was an appropriate play style for every stat distribution, from [Absolute Musclehead] to either of the popular [3:2 builds] through to the [Speed Demon]. Kirito himself tended towards the [3:2] favoring [STR] build. Mechanically all distributions might be equal, but considering that equipment had stat requirements and were good for many levels of play, the closer you were to the middle more likely you could equip whatever excellent drops you came across. So, at level 10, Kirito had basic stats of 5 + 9 * 3 = 32 for STR and 5 + 9 * 2 = 23 for AGI.

But, even that mechanical balance had gone away with the [Thaumaturgy Patch].

The first [Spell] that accomplished an effect, that wasn’t just [Turn on MP] or [Fill up MP bar], the first one that provided a real benefit, was called [Reinforcement]. When used on humans, it split into two derivative spells, [Reinforce Strength] and [Reinforce Agility]. What they could do was boost your stats to the [Max by Level]. In the words of that super-old NPC in the creepy item shop that unfortunately didn’t sell items, Reinforcement was used to [Perfect] what existed, so it could improve it to the absolute natural limit. In game terms, that meant either of the [Reinforce Statistic] spells couldn’t improve the scores above [Five Times Level], which was 50 for a level ten player. If someone was capable of improving their stats by 10 with reinforcement, than anything above a natural 40 was suboptimal.

Supposedly the next spell in the [Basic Physical Interference Spell Tree] was called [Alteration]. Assuming from its name that it could raise a stat above the limit of [Five Times Level], Kirito was planning ahead for that by improving both the [Reinforce Strength] and [Reinforce Agility] spells under the possibility that the corresponding [Alter Stat] spells would have them as prerequisites.

Well, the same could be said of weapons. The [Anneal Blade] that Kirito liked so much… in the Beta you could take it to a Blacksmith and they could enhance it. However, when he had tried to get that done here, the NPC had looked at him blankly and asked, “How can I add to something that’s already complete?” Standing in front of an NPC with a stupid and hurt expression on his face, Kirito hadn’t emotionally realized how much of the game was getting rewritten with the [All supernatural skills are spells] rule until that point.

It was frustrating, but so far, he had only managed to find the [Reinforce Durability] spell. With a heavy sigh, Kirito hefted his sword. He had really wanted to balance out [Sharpness] and [Durability], but it wasn’t possible. It was annoying having to enhance his weapon two or three times a day when the spell wore off, too. On the other hand, the increased flexibility that this system gave him could have uses too.

“What’s wrong?” Kirito started as he heard the voice come out of the helmet. It wasn’t that it was deep or cruel or anything; if anything, it was too normal for someone associated with that [Strange Little Girl] and who wore something that absurd. No, what surprised him was that the man had spoken at all.

“It’s not much… I was just regretting that I don’t have the [Reinforce Sharpness] spell yet.” Kirito answered.

“…If you want, I can do that for you.” The helmeted man offered.

Kirito considered that. After a pause, he handed his sword over to the strange man. While the other guy softly intoned [Trace: On], Kirito tried to decided how to say what he wanted to say. Ultimately, he concluded it would be best to be casual.

When the other guy handed the sword back after only a second, Kirito spoke. “Hey… will you sell me the guide to that spell? I would like to be able to do it myself.”

The other guy didn’t say anything, and Kirito blinked when he equipped the sword. “Plus five to Sharpness…” Kirito said, surprised. “You’ve already used that [Reinforce Sharpness] spell so many times that you can take the weapon to the maximum value?”

After a hesitant pause, the other guy spoke. “It wasn’t anything special. I just used [Reinforcement] to improve the [Sharpness] of the weapon.”

Kirito parsed that. “Not the specialized spell [Reinforce Sharpness], but the basic [Reinforcement] magic?”

The helmet slowly nodded. “Even if it’s not impressive, [Reinforcement] is really versatile.”

Kirito frowned, rubbing his chin. In that case… it just meant that the [Reinforce Whatever] spells were [specialized] forms of the basic spell, rather than [refinements] or [derivatives]. In that case [Reinforcement] should be able to do what all of its specialties could do, possibly at a skill check penalty. Would the spells have an XP synergy between basic and specialized forms? Kirito would have to check. Finally, he simply nodded, putting it out of his mind, before looking at where he assumed the other guy’s eyes were. “Well, in any case, thanks.” He said with a cheerful smile.

“You’re welcome.”

Kirito was relieved. Not only was his weapon buffed up better than he could have hoped, but it looked like the mysterious [Helmet-san] was pretty skilled too. Therefore, he didn’t have to worry about anyone in his party holding him back. “Ah…” said, stretching his arms. “So you focus on grinding the basic [Reinforcement], huh?” He asked, making conversation. “Do you think you will unlock [Alteration] more quickly that way?”

[Helmet-san], no, [Shirou], paused while he considered that. Kirito was already getting in the habit of referring to him with a stupid nickname. That was no good, so he made the mental effort to use the other guy’s name. As someone he wanted to pump for information, politeness would be useful.

Finally, Shirou spoke. “I haven’t thought about it.”

Kirito blinked. “Eh?”

Shirou shrugged. “I haven’t really thought about learning Alteration, just about improving my Reinforcement as much as I can.”

Kirito nodded at that. “I see… but, it’s logical in an RPG that the magic later in the game is always better, so usually your best bet is to meet the prerequisites to unlock more advanced stuff as fast as possible.”

After an inscrutable pause, Shirou responded. “I don’t think that’s necessarily applicable here.”

Kirito paused, his arms extended straight away from his torso and his back bent sideways at a thirty degree angle. Finally he straightened up. “Yeah… somehow, this [Thaumaturgy] stuff seems to different from normal.” He nodded. “So you’re the type that focuses on improving a few things rather than maxing out your options?”

Shirou nodded. “I don’t have talent for anything else, so I’m just focusing on Reinforcement.”

Kirito blinked. “It’s… really early in the game to be cutting off your options like that, isn’t it?” Kirito said. “I mean, have you even tried other spells yet?” Kirito crossed his arms. “I make it a rule to equip everything and try it out at least once.” He nodded solemnly. Perhaps failing was embarrassing, but not as embarrassing as that horrible sinking sensation when you realized you’d been doing things wrong all along.

Shirou shifted. Although the helmet guarded his face, his body language looked slightly uncomfortable. “Other spells… I can’t even use the spell [Gather Mana].”

Kirito blinked, and then frowned. “I see… if it’s like that your options for gathering Prana is limited to just [Generate Od], huh? I hear there are already a couple players like that…. So you’d have to focus on low-cost stuff.” Kirito regretted making his conversational partner uncomfortable, but on the other hand, his [Optimize Build] trait had been activated, so his enthusiasm was getting the better of him. By the way, the trait [Optimize Build] wasn’t related to the [Sword Art Online] character Kirito, but instead it was intrinsic to the player himself. “What other spells do you know?” He asked.

“After [Circuit Activation] and [Generate Od]…” beginning with that preface, Shirou answered. “After those two, [Reinforcement] and [Structural Grasp].”

Kirito was slightly surprised. “Structural Grasp? Isn’t that just an expy for an [Appraise] Skill?” Kirito had it on his spell list too, since it was something with no prerequisites offered by several of the NPC magic teachers. It was a super-low-cost spell that threaded prana through something to determine its composition…supposedly. Actually, it was better and worse than Appraise, since it was different. It was harder to determine the [Col value] of an item, but it delivered more specific information. Kirito had trained it a little bit, but mostly it only gave him vague stuff. “What kind of information can you determine with it?” He asked, curious.

Shirou shrugged. “Well… for example, I used it on your [Anneal Blade] to determine its statistics, so I could [Reinforce] it to its limit.”

Kirito considered that. “So… you could have improved the [Sharpness] above five?”

Shirou shook his head. The absurd helmet swung back and forth. “No, the sword would have broke. Trying to go past the limit is like pumping too much water into a tank. It bursts from the inside.”

Kirito considered that, and shivered slightly. The only reason why he hadn’t performed the experiment [What if you Reinforce Strength above the Level Cap] was because his [Reinforce Strength] couldn’t boost his [STR] stat enough. Now… he probably wouldn’t be performing that experiment.

…Maybe on a neutral mob, or a horse NPC.

Kirito was going to say more, but their conversation was cut off.

“Okay!” Diabel shouted, standing in front of the door. “Everyone! Is everyone ready?”

Compared to when Ilya asked, the question was answered with much more enthusiasm. A cheer rose up.

Diabel smiled. “Okay! Everyone remembers the plan? The parties will each stay together to support the people in your party, but the parties in my [White Group] will split up to cover each of the Boss Guards. Meanwhile, the parties in the [Red Group] will surround the boss and attack him!”

Another cheer rose up.

Diabel nodded. “Alright! I’m going to open the door, but first…” the smile faded into a more sincere expression. “Everyone… thank you. I’m proud that so many people have the courage to move forward!” When he said that, cheering and clapping began, as he congratulated his companions on their bravery.

“So!” Diabel said, turning and facing the grand door that blocked their way forward. “Like this, let’s charge forward!” And, he pushed open the doors.

Shouting and cheering, the [First Floor Raid] had officially begun.

I I I

The helmet was annoying. It muffled his hearing. It cut off his peripheral vision. And it chafed.

Around him, people were shouting advice and encouragement. Shirou was part of the [Anti-Boss Group], but practically he was…

Practically, he wasn’t really doing anything. He had intended to defend Ilya and the two others in their party, along with everyone, but that wasn’t necessary.

The [One-handed Longsword] was larger and heavier than his normal [One-handed Curved Sword] that he’d had equipped until now, but he’d improved his strength and it wasn’t a problem.

This battle was too slow. It was taking too long.

Shirou had defeated Illfang three times. It wasn’t that he’d reduced the [Boss HP] to below zero three times, but rather, a cut across the spine, a cut to the femoral artery, a stab that pierced the liver; he had attacked three times, and each one had been a lethal blow. Well, the one to the spine, when he’d been behind the Boss, had dealt extra damage.

But more than anything else, this didn’t [Feel like a Battle]. Although everyone possessed the mobility and endurance of elite fighters, including the Boss and the [Ruin Sentinels] that were milling around, nobody was exploiting the heightened mobility to force others into an inferior engagement distance.

These were the elite players, so he didn’t need to interfere in their fighting. He didn’t need to charge into the fray and stop attacks from reaching them. He didn’t need to control the flow of the [mobs] by manipulating position, distance, and the [Hate] mechanic.

No, more than anything else, it was the pace of battle that made it fake, unreal, silly.

Because… there was a [Cooldown] between sword skills. Certainly there was tactics in managing that system. Players covered each other so that they wouldn’t be attacked in that moment of weakness. They guided the boss into using them against a player that could negate his heavy blows with a shield, and then simultaneously attacked during the opening.

So, even if he was a novice, he could already distinguish that there was strategy going on here. He was like a neophyte chess player, that had enough knowledge to be impressed by the smooth and confident play of chess masters. However… compared to these players that had practiced working together, he was completely different. To put it another way, he was definitely that neophyte chess player compared to these masters, who couldn’t read three moves ahead, let alone see how the flow of the game was progressing. All he could do was stay out of their way.

Ilya was shouting encouragement, and attacking with that extra-large sword.

The girl [Asuna] was striking like light, quickly and confidently responding to Ilya’s guidance, letting herself be lined up according to Ilya’s judgment, and then firing her sword like a rifle, an attack so fast it couldn’t be seen or dodged. It wasn’t just the [Iron Rapier] that she had equipped, it wasn’t the [Fencing Skill] that she had leveled by continuous improvement. The girl herself was good.

Or [Kirito]. He had the best statistics of every player here. His [Anneal Blade] had the highest parameters of any sword Shirou had seen in the game. It was even better than the [Hardened Iron Longsword] that Diabel had equipped. Furthermore, his skill, [One Handed Straight Sword], was the biggest number that Shirou had seen in any player, for any skill. Simply put, of all the players Shirou had seen in the game, Kirito was mechanically the best.

But, ignore the equipment, ignore the numbers, ignore the metrics, ignore the game. Ignoring all of that, and these two were still talented. Asuna had minimized every secondary motion of her Linear. Anything that wasn’t along the line of the sword was reduced to the smallest possible size. But, since small motions were naturally faster than wide motions, reducing the size of everything that pointed away from her attack vector increased the strike speed. Her [Linear] moved in the straightest possible line that minimized every possible motion away from the ideal line. To be cute, it was the most [Linear] possible [Linear]. In comparison, Kirito was [Efficient]. Rather than making every secondary motion as small as possible like Asuna did, he made sure that every secondary motion supported his next move. When he dodged, he didn’t just move out of the way of the current attack, but also stepped forward to measure the range for his next move. After swinging his sword, the follow-through while he pulled his sword through the target naturally flowed into a guard position that was similar to the preparation for his next attack.

Shirou quietly followed along as his party stepped back, dodging a wide swing attack by Illfang’s [Tulwar]. Once again, they evaded without having to block or parry, while the party on the far side of the boss started building [Hate] by back-attacking.

The strategy Ilya had proposed was simple, elegant, and ruthless: her five parties would surround Illfang in a pentagon formation, and the parties facing Illfang’s back would focus on offense while the parties in front would focus on defense. If anyone needed to heal or regroup, they could retreat, and the other parties would close into a square formation to cover them.

Yes, these were all excellent and skilled players. Shirou couldn’t keep up with how many moves ahead they were thinking. That was unacceptable. He would have to improve.

However, could he really get stronger working with them?

It was true that they were all master chess players, who could see three moves ahead. He was a neophyte that only knew how the pieces moved.

But, the difference between [Sparring] and [Battle]….

These guys all chose the best possible move.

But real battle was different.

The overwhelming, smothering pressure of Berserker… the inescapable, piercing speed of Lancer… the magnificent and heavy presence of Saber….

No, go even farther back.

As a small boy, all of ten years old, messing around with a sick old man in a dojo.

The cold and machine-like timing of Kiritsugu… the presence that instilled the boy with the understanding of what [Fighting to the Death] really was, even before he truly grasped how truly difficult it was to [Move Like a Hero].

Yes.

It was true they could die. It was true this was a fight to the death. However… this fight lacked the same crushing urgency as a true [Battle].

It was too fair. In a real battle, you didn’t choose the perfect chess maneuver. You moved all of your pieces as fast as possible without any regard for the other player’s turn. The fundamental unfairness of it was the point. You crushed their options with your own onslaught. The goal of battle preparation was to have an unfair advantage.

After all, hadn’t he had all these thoughts? Hadn’t he had all this time to think all this through?

Illfang turned, and attacked the group on the far side as their [Hate] value increased. His [Diagonal] skill was intercepted and deflected by a polearm user, and Shirou matched the timing of his partymembers as they used their [Sword Skills] to damage the enemy. Soon they would drag his attention back to them, and then the party on the other side would also get to [Back Attack]. The bonus damage from the [Back Attack] was just a bonus. Ilya’s real goal, she had said, was to reduce Illfang’s [DPS] by forcing him to switch targets as frequently as possible.

But it was simply too fair. A real battle was decided in an instant when someone failed to defend and died. The crushing, fearsome presence of death converging from every direction....

Illfang could kill them if his sword connected. However, the attack frequency was unrealistically slow, and he was mechanically attacking whomever attacked him while disregarding weak points. A real monster would threaten Shirou with death at least three times a second. Various lines of attack would be poured on him, and the most dangerous one would be selected, so the enemy would have the best chance to murder him. There would be no hesitance, there would be no pause, and there would be no cooldown. If the attack failed, immediately pour new vectors on the opponent and pick the best one again.

Compared to that, Illfang was too diffuse. The pressure of a killing attack would line up, but dissipate after only one attack. A true killer… would maintain the pressure until the opponent died. They would not let up, they would not slow down, and they would not relent. [Continuously attack until the enemy died]… that was a true engagement between killers.

They had already been fighting for ten minutes. In that time, the [Anti-Guards Group] had defeated two lines of [Ruin Sentinels], and was working through the third. Two [HP Bars] had been cut away from Illfang and they were steadily working through a third.

“Look out!” Shirou simply dropped his thinking and stepped forward. He swung his sword, dropping low, covering Ilya’s retreat as he slammed his blade into Illfang’s massive Tulwar. Both swords lost durability, although the Tulwar lost more. Well, it was so much tougher even at a worse rate of loss it would still last longer.

“Ah!” Ilya looked up. “Asuna!” She ordered, as Shirou pulled her back.

“Right!” Asuna stepped forward, and launched a [Linear] at Illfang while it was in cooldown.

Behind them, Diabel’s party finished a [Ruin Sentinel]. Since that meant there was only one left, rather than get in the way swarming it, they returned to a rest position and let the designated party handle the remainder. Although they had to move around more, they had only spent a third of the battle actually fighting.

Shirou frowned. Ilya was breathing hard. His whole party was breathing hard. “Ilya… are you alright?”

Ilya looked at him with an odd expression. “Of course! Isn’t my HP at maximum?”

Kirito stepped forward, and swung his sword into a [Horizontal], adding a step on the end by increasing the swing length. As a result, he was out of range of Illfang’s attack when the cooldown occurred. “No… she’s getting fatigued mentally.” He paused, then added, “We all are.”

Asuna agreed, a slight frown on her face. Recognition, insight, and annoyance crossed her face all in one expression. Clearly, she fully understood.

Shirou did too. Even if the battle was moving at a slow pace, maintaining sharp concentration for so long was exhausting. He didn’t have any problems, or rather, he didn’t have any problems yet. That was simply a result of the superior training he’d received. “I see.” He said. “So, should we consider pulling back?”

Behind them, there was a cheer as the presumptive [Last Ruin Sentinel] was defeated. At about the same time, Illfang’s third HP bar was pushed into the red.

Shirou grimly focused himself. “Ilya… if you’re having difficultly, you can retreat and let me finish it, okay?”

Ilya frowned at him, but he wouldn’t allow any objections. He would simply overrule her if it was a question of life-or-death and accept the consequences.

I I I

Kirito grunted, sliding out of the way of the [Diagonal]. At this rate, the [Red Raid Group] might not be able to finish the battle. In terms of HP they were on track to do just fine, but the Raid’s [Mental Endurance] parameter was going down too fast. Even though they were over-leveled, the pressure of [Death] was too exhausting. It wasn’t like this [Boss Fight] had lasted all that long, but the terror of fighting a [Death Game] compared to playing a [Video Game] increased the difficulty incomparably.

“Everyone!” Diabel shouted. “Now, the [White Raid] will support the [Red Raid]! Let’s win!”

With a strong cheer, the fighting strength facing Illfang was doubled.

Kirito was relieved, and stepped back with his party, letting the reinforcements take the lead. It was the same sensation as using [Switch] with another player to let them cover you.

And he realized.

He made eye contact with Ilya, and the pouting scowl on her face tightened as she wordlessly agreed with him.

That had been Diabel’s plan from the beginning. Although it looked like the [White Raid] was given the thankless and hard-to-coordinate task of dealing with the [Ruin Sentinels], on an individual level, ganging up on the guards felt completely different than surrounding [Illfang]. If you weren’t perfectly careful against Illfang, he could kill you in one hit. That wasn’t the case against the [Ruin Sentinels], so it simply wasn’t as terrifying to fight them when you could retreat and get healed. No, in the first place, the amount of time the [White Raid] had been fighting was lower than the [Red Raid], so the exhaustion wouldn’t accumulate as much either.

After the [Red Raid] softened up the boss, the [White Raid] would finish it.

Kirito couldn’t help but smile, chagrinned.

What was the expression? Diabel was having his cake and eating it too. Not only did present himself as the [Self-Sacrificing Leader], he also maximized his chance at the [Last Attack]. No, even if he didn’t get it personally, the item would probably go to someone in his [Future Guild].

The HP Bar decremented and the last sliver of the third bar was gone. A cheer went up. The battle was going smoothly, and there was only one bar left.

Well, a maximized chance was not the same as a guarantee. After all, when the boss switched weapons when his last bar hit red, the flow of the fight would change. At that time, he had no doubt that Ilya would be happy to try and [Steal the Last Attack] like Kirito would be.

Wait.

Since the beginning, Illfang had a Tulwar equipped.

His attack pattern had been the [Last Red Pattern] with the equipped Tulwar from the Beta, used from the beginning of this fight.

…Including the Axe-and-Buckler pattern from the Beta, and the Tulwar pattern used here, didn’t that mean whatever happened during this [Last Red Pattern] would be Illfang’s [Third Transformation]?

“Illya… Asuna.” He shouted. “When the HP hits the red zone… be ready.”

Kirito’s [Gamer Instincts] were warning him that something bad was going to happen.

I I I

[Illfang the Kobold Lord].

Based on the traditional motif of Kobolds as [Dog Monsters], rather than the [Lesser Dragons] that they had become in modern media.

As the first [Floor Boss], it had been critical that Illfang set the tone and flavor of the game. Compared to the [High-Difficulty Bosses] or even the [Final Boss], you could even say Illfang was more important because the [First Boss] would establish the player’s expectations. Atmosphere was a critical but hard-to-measure element in games, especially in SAO, which offered unparalleled immersion.

…He didn’t want to admit it, but the reason that the cheap [Last Red Overkill Mode] had been installed in the [Beta] was specifically to wipe parties. Even at that time he had intended to sacrifice game balance along with everything else for this scenario, but he had been vaguely offended during the meeting in which such an unbalanced thing had been suggested. It had offended his sensibilities as a game designer, even if he had agreed with the rationale.

But that was like another life time.

It was an affectation just like this [Scrying Effect], but Kayaba tucked his hand in the pocket of his long white lab coat. The [First Boss]. With a feeling like pride, he watched the players confront it. Soon, the first concrete departure towards the [Common Sense of Magi] would be forced on them.

Kayaba believed that true ingenuity was achieving maximum effect with minimum input. From that perspective, a genius was somebody who didn’t miss any opportunities that appeared before them. A genius perfectly exploited every single chance to multiply their effects.

The [Last Red Overkill Mode] would be used exactly as it had been intended. It would force the players to stop taking the flow of the game for granted, even if it was unfair.

The players had already destroyed three HP bars. No, they had destroyed almost three-and-a-half, the final HP bar had just crossed into the yellow zone.

It was tiny and hesitant. But Kayaba Akihiko sincerely smiled.

I I I

One Snow stepped forward and swung his sword. It was quickly becoming his signature technique: a [Diagonal] at such an extreme angle it was more accurate to call it [Vertical]. The long sword in his hands glowed yellow, and pushed the huge blade held by the snarling dog-monster into the ground, pinning it.

Flanking him, Itagaki stepped forward, thrusting the spear into the boss’ flank.

A cheer went up as the HP fell into the red zone.

But it tapered off in confusion. No, it was cut off by fear. No, it was simply overwhelmed by the scream.

Illfang’s mouth was open. It was a horrid screech, the keening howl of a wounded beast. The raw noise of it forced everyone back. Even One Snow took a step back.

The scream built, growing louder and longer, and it modulated. It was like dozens of voices that were losing coherence, falling out of unison, crying out at their own pace. It was like Illfang opened his mouth and a dozen voices screamed from inside of him.

Those other voices climbed in register, like flutes. Somehow, they didn’t sound like a dog anymore. It didn’t sound like a mammal, but something else. Something alien.

Illfang’s flesh rippled. His muscles convulsed. He was squirming and writhing in place.

That wasn’t correct.

The crazy ripples along his back didn’t move along the length of his limbs or obey any rule of physiology. They were ripples like burrowing snakes without any reason moving at random under his hide.

Inside of Illfang, horrible things squirmed.

“Everyone!” Diabel shouted. In the instant everyone else froze, the [Rune Knight] bravely stepped forward. “Fall back! I’ll handle it!”

One Snow took control of his body. He raised his sword to a guard position.

He would support the [Hero Diabel].

I I I

Shirou reached up and pushed the helmet off. He couldn’t afford to have his vision or hearing compromised. Like most of the [Red Raid Group], he’d fallen back. Or rather, he was standing between the exhausted players and the boss in case it attacked them. That wasn’t the way its [Hate] worked, but according to what Ilya had said it would change modes when its HP went red.

It was definitely changing modes.

Its eyes rolled back. It was withering as it was devoured from the inside and stitched together.

Diabel shouted and charged forward.

Shirou also charged forward. Somehow, he knew Diabel’s attack wouldn’t be enough. He didn’t think it would end so neatly and easily. That uneasiness in his heart spurred him forward.

He saw Diabel’s sword swing. Shirou had only taken two steps towards them.

The sword dug in, but it wasn’t enough. The sword caught in Illfang’s body like the resistance was too high. Inside the wound, it wrenched in place as it was grabbed by something, and Diabel stumbled, swinging back as his hand holding his sword jerked his whole body short.

Shirou finished the third step.

Inside the glowing wound, that shed red pixels instead of blood: There were worms in there. They were long, and thin, but they were slowly getting thicker. They leapt out of the wound, they wound around the sword, they were stitching the sides shut as they clamped the edges with their teeth (of course they had teeth) and pulled it shut.

Illfang’s HP bar was yellow. It was slowly getting bigger as the worms stitched him together, inside and out. No, they weren’t just stitching him together. They were threading through the muscles, drawing the tendons tighter, increasing his power. According to what Shirou could see through that Tulwar, the [Strength] parameter it was being held with was slowly increasing.

For the fourth time, Shirou put one foot in front of the other. Even as he did so, he could tell it wasn’t enough. Just one time, out of all the times he’s practiced at school, just once had he had pulled back an arrow and seen that it wouldn’t hit, and right now he felt that same inevitability.

With a jerky motion, even while he was hunched over, Illfang’s arm whipped up and around in an unnatural way, pulling the sword back. Diabel’s gaze, everyone’s gaze, followed that sword as it abruptly flipped up.

His hand clenched the sword and he stepped the fifth time. Even it if wasn’t enough, he absolutely wouldn’t give up. He would absolutely do it somehow.

But… it wasn't enough.

This sword wasn't enough. These [Skills] weren't enough. These character statistics weren't enough. His running speed wasn’t enough. The motion library of the [Sword Skills] were not enough.

However, he couldn't blame it all on the game like a child. His own magecraft was too limited. Even in the real world, even if he was capable of everything he could do for real in here, he could not reinforce his body past too-low limits. If he couldn't even reach them, whatever he could create with Projection was meaningless; even creating a bow with an arrow would be too slow. He couldn't do anything else but reinforcement and projection, even in reality.

He didn't have anything that was enough to win. He didn't have any way to save this person in front of him.

So if he couldn't win, he just had to imagine something that could.

Yes, even if he equipped [Run] or [Acrobatics], he would not be able to reach Illfang in time to save Diabel.

This holographic body couldn't be reinforced any more than it already was. There wasn’t a [Sword Skill] that would allow him to win. Noting in the entire [World of Aincrad] was enough.

However... inside Emiya Shirou was a much better world.

It was only inside him. It was inside only him. He judged the concept of creation and loved it. Even then, it was incomplete. It was indistinct and lacked form. He hypothesized the basic structure and was amazed by it. It was literally transparent. Because it had been made by fairies, he could not duplicate the composition material nor reproduce the skill of its making. But in exchange, he could sympathize with the experience of growth and reproduce the accumulated years more perfectly than anyone. Even his contractor who had held it could not understand this sword as completely as he could. He could not excel every manufacturing process. But those he comprehended, for the limited parts he could reproduce, he made it perfect. Even if it was fake, even if it was incomplete, even if Projecting it was impossible, he adored all of it.

Inside him, there was a golden sword on a hill. A girl had held that sword, and fought battles with it. Even against taller and stronger knights, even against giants and dragons, she had held her ground with that sword. That legend was completely captured by his imagination.

Even against that iron-black giant, even while wounded, she had stood her ground. That was something he’d Grasped with his own eyes.

Inside his mind, his circuit cocked, and the sword was loaded into the tube as it filled with od.

Comparing himself to her using that crude image was laughable. However, comparing this holographic goblin to the iron-black giant was also laughable. Real greatness was not required. As long as what he achieved was less pathetic--

The sword was loaded, and he pulled the trigger in his soul.

The missile called [Emiya Shirou] was launched. The sword in his hands was primed.

With an impact like a detonating warhead, the [Deathblow] of [Illfang the Kobold Lord] was intercepted and completely blown off course.

I I I

When Shirou had thrown off his helmet and started running, Kirito could already tell it would be useless.

Even that guy with the painfully orthodox kendo stance standing three meters behind Diabel couldn’t do anything. And they were practically on the other side of the map.

Still… it wasn’t like Shirou had started running and Kirito had followed him. If Shirou had pulled ahead it was because he was an [AGI] type with a higher max speed. Simply put, if they took off running at different times, that was a result of their individual reaction times to the same stimulus.

It wasn’t that Kirito was trying to follow him. It was that they had the same impulse at the same instant, so they both took off running.

Kirito clenched his teeth, and tried to run faster.

He wouldn’t… he definitely couldn’t let someone die in front of him again!

And then, Shirou took off.

Kirito faltered, hesitating for a step before powering through to keep running.

It was like a limiter had been removed along with the [Stupid Helmet] and the other guy had turned on his afterburners. That guy blasted forward in a blur, and his sword was like a streak of light. But it wasn’t glowing like a sword skill. The effect was different, like Shirou was wreathed in prana squeezed out of his body.

Even so, the Tulwar came down like a guillotine.

And that launched sword exploded into it, blasting it off course like they were two cannonballs that had impossibly collided midair. A high-pitched metallic ring burned their ears.

But that sword didn’t stop.

It rotated around like a moon collapsing into a planet at terminal velocity as Shirou spun in a circle and plunged the edge into Illfang’s extended shoulder. The form was perfect, even so the worms tried to grab it, but he simply blasted through the boss and all the worms with raw power.

Illfang staggered, the force of the blow ripping through him dragging him towards the ground. He reared back, curling up and gathering strength to strike—

But it was useless. That sword wasn’t like a cannonball blasting into him, but rather, an avalanche that swept into him like a falling wall. Whenever it hit it simply followed through and hit again. If it missed, if it was deflected, it didn’t pause or hesitate and simply blasted toward the boss again.

All told, from the instant the sword completely blew that Tulwar out of the way, it only took three seconds.

In those three seconds, five deep gouges where opened up, and each blow chopped away HP just as it ripped open the holographic flesh.

After three seconds, the HP bar was cut down into nothingness.

[Congratulations!]

Illfang wasn’t defeated. He was slaughtered.

Even as the trumpet fanfare played and the game praised them, no one spoke.

The only sound was the ragged breathing from that guy, standing in an unyielding stance holding that sword in a dangerous manner, with steam rising from his sides like he’d boiled himself in a pot of magic and climbed out of the witches’ cauldron.

This guy…

Was he really human?

I I I

1) 7000 words? Man, you sure like to talk, huh Kirito? That’s okay though, I hope everyone learned something. Not just about the game, but about how smart you are! Also that you’re going to be an influence that will teach Shirou to explore his limits as a magus, even if it means stupid experiments. ESPECIALLY if it means stupid experiments, actually.

2) I thought about Kirito making it in time so that the two Protagonists could do the Back-to-Back Badasses thing, or ideally Asuna could have also started running; Illfang could fully transform, and all three could do a Back-to-Back-to-Back Badasses thing. But unfortunately Shirou had equipped the [Outside System Skill] called [Murder-Death-Kill] so he ended it too quickly and ruthlessly for that to make sense.

3) As always, let me know if you think characters are OOC or you think something is dumb.

4) Next time: Everyone is amazed and disturbed by [Sixth Ranger’s Super Brutal Super Mode]. Except Ilya, she's 50% 80% of the way to a sociopath.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
That was awesome. But I didn't really understand the reinforcement bit. Would it maximize based off of the maximum stat, or the current stat? Or was it just five times the current level and not connected to stats at all?
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
Mentor!Kirito
FUCK YES PLEASE


Anyway it was a great fight scene. If Kayaba's intent was to tell the players not to rely on the normal game mechanics anymore I wonder how something like Shirou out bullshitting Ilfang was something Kayaba intended or if it was something unexpected. Was it the result he wanted?
 

chrnno

Well-Known Member
Wow that was good. And I find the idea of Kirito being a bad influence on Shirou hilarious.

Also Ilya is 80% of the way to sociopath way she really managed to reduce it a lot since the HGW.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
I saw "emersion" instead of "immersion" somewhere near the start, but that was the only mistake I could find. I'd pick out a favourite part, but the whole thing was my favourite part.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
That lead up to the projection with Shirou gushing over Excalibur was pretty great. All of it was well written, but that passage really felt like something Shirou would think while in the middle of a desperate situation. That always seems to be when he's the most wordy.
 

Mu-sensei

Well-Known Member
Mentor!Kirito or Partner!Kirito? Well I have gone with the second. The former is an interesting variation, even better if you have a sort of Mentor!Kirito teaching Shirou to trick the system, Mentor!Shirou teaching Kirito what little he knows about magic and they fighting together. They are fundamentally equals, and opposites at the same time, in terms of fighting style when it comes to it:

Kirito: I have tricks under my sleeve 'because I'm beater'. (see Silica's Story and -Battle Healing-, -Dual Swords- -Hacking the System (Yui's side story), ALO Monster transformation, -Bullet cutting HAX- etc, etc)

Shirou: I improvise something insane by screwing reality at the last possible time (or simply do something stupid, like throwing myself in the path of attack) and still survive. Of course he is more of the former here.
 

Ryune

Well-Known Member
Alright, now I am actually curious. Did Shirou ever even bother to check any of the spell granting quests and try anything or did he just assume it would just like real life? I seem to remember him never even bothering to expand his horizons in any direction other than what he had been practicing forever after Rin opened his circuits. Sure, what he used took leaps and bounds into projection but he never even tried to go anywhere different with his magic.
 
daniel_gudman said:
the guy in the stupid helmet was a complete mystery.
Is the point of the helmet preventing anyone from recognizing Shirou as the Sixth Ranger?

And by the way, I think that's an awesome nickname for Mr. "Never to be understood, not even once".


I like how the meeting of minds between Shirou and Kirito exposes the differences in their paradigms. Kirito's thinking is flawed in viewing the rules in terms of gamplay, but Shirou lacks Kirito's ambitious, scientific approach to self-improvement.

I'm looking forward to the ways in which Kirito will inspire Shirou to seek new expressions and applications of his talents, especially as Shirou comes to educate Kirito on the actual rules of his new reality.


That’s okay though, I hope everyone learned something. Not just about the game, but about how smart you are! Also that you’re going to be an influence that will teach Shirou to explore his limits as a magus, even if it means stupid experiments. ESPECIALLY if it means stupid experiments, actually.
Yeah, this.

But don't forget to rope Lizbeth into it.


Perhaps failing was embarrassing, but not as embarrassing as that horrible sinking sensation when you realized you’d been doing things wrong all along.
Like following Kiritsugu's instructions on how to perform Gradation Air to make butterknives instead of following your own instinctual 10-step method for producing Noble Phantasms.

Or wasting your time and constantly risking your life by turning nerves into facsimile magic circuits instead of activating your real circuits.

Or spending all of the Fate route and most of the UBW using and abusing just one or two circuits because you don't know how to open all 27 of the circuits you actually have.


Shirou shifted. Although the helmet guarded his face, his body language looked slightly uncomfortable. “Other spells… I can’t even use the spell [Gather Mana].”
Wat. Seriously?

Is this a temporary failing in Shirou's skills, or an absolute limitation of talent?

I'm positive that Archer had the ability to replenish his prana by respiring from the world. There's no other way he could have pulled off half the stuff he did in the UBW route.

Well, maybe he found a few low-lifes in the city to kill, to recharge himself by eating their souls.


“What kind of information can you determine with it?” He asked, curious.
Everything. Well, except market cost, that makes sense. But other than that, everything.


Shirou had defeated Illfang three times.
You need to be clearer. I thought you meant that Shirou had already solo'ed this boss three times before this raid, rather than "Shirou had already delivered three blows, each of which should have been fatal by rights."


That had been Diabel’s plan from the beginning.
Nice.


It was tiny, hesitant, and half-hearted. But Kayaba Akihiko sincerely smiled.
Can "half-hearted" and "sincere" really be mutually inclusive?


“Everyone!” Diabel shouted. In the instant everyone else froze, the [Rune Knight] bravely stepped forward. “Fall back! I’ll handle it!”
The boss is behaving in a fashion completely unlike in the beta version, which is alarming on its own even aside from the gruesome and scary display...

...but Diabel still goes forward with his risky plan?


I don't think Shirou should be able to mimic a hero without using the weapon. Shirou is a creator, not a mimic. Unlimited Blade Works is about reproducing weapons, not about empowering Shirou directly.

Is the scene really that different if Shirou projects Caliburn and lets the sword take over, so that he strikes as fast and hard as Saber did?


Also, Ilya knows that Archer was Shirou. Because when Berserker killed Archer, she absorbed him as per her function as the Lesser Grail.

She was too mad to examine Archer within her when she was focused on Shirou, so it was only after Berserker was defeated and she was adopted into Shirou's house that she thought to take a look.

So she knows Shirou could be Archer. She saw Shirou produce Caliburn to kill Berserker. She saw Archer produce a number of other legendary swords to kill Berserker several times.

Archer didn't use UBW in the game; that was anime-only, since the anime borrowed elements from the other routes with the Fate route to make a single story. Though you could go ahead and say that Archer DID use UBW in front of Ilya.

Either way, Ilya knows that something is up with Shirou's abilities, and she probably has a better idea about it than Rin.

And since she wants to get as much as possible out of this "game", she's probably conspiring with Kayaba to make sure that Cardinal understands how to express Shirou's abilities.

Which also leads into Cardinal learning from Shirou. (New items added to PC crafting-system inventory!)

Good grief, imagine if Cardinal learns enough about Reality Marbles that it can teach the captives how to create their own!
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
Ryune said:
Alright, now I am actually curious. Did Shirou ever even bother to check any of the spell granting quests and try anything or did he just assume it would just like real life? I seem to remember him never even bothering to expand his horizons in any direction other than what he had been practicing forever after Rin opened his circuits. Sure, what he used took leaps and bounds into projection but he never even tried to go anywhere different with his magic.

I think you nailed it on the head. Shirou's going on a preconception that this is all he can do. Kiritsugu really screwed him up in that regard.

Hence, I'm all for Kirito disabusing Shirou of his own self-imposed limits. Even if the counsequences turn out to be Horrific/Hilarious/Awesome.

Sunder the Gold said:
Wat. Seriously?

Is this a temporary failing in Shirou's skills, or an absolute limitation of talent?
Shirou can't convert mana to od as of F/SN. He's restricted to his own reserves... and prehaps anyone he's made a pass with (Rin - UBW). That's it.

I don't think Shirou should be able to mimic a hero without using the weapon. Shirou is a creator, not a mimic. Unlimited Blade Works is about reproducing weapons, not about empowering Shirou directly.

Is the scene really that different if Shirou projects Caliburn and lets the sword take over, so that he strikes as fast and hard as Saber did?
This was discussed earlier. Cardinal can't analyze Shirou's Noble Phantasms properly. Likewise Shirou can't look at the weapons of SAO and add them to his reality marble. Kayaba's understanding of projection magic is the orthodox method, while Shirou's is something else. For now, that comes into conflict. At least until Cardinal has had more time to analyze Shirou's magic.
 

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
Kirito's monologue was perfect. It perfectly matches what I remember of his narration style in the Baka-Tsuki translation of the LN. Great job ! :yay:

Alright, now I am actually curious. Did Shirou ever even bother to check any of the spell granting quests and try anything or did he just assume it would just like real life? I seem to remember him never even bothering to expand his horizons in any direction other than what he had been practicing forever after Rin opened his circuits. Sure, what he used took leaps and bounds into projection but he never even tried to go anywhere different with his magic.
This is Fate/Shirou who still consider Rin the Ultimate Authority On Magic Who Is Never Wrong and her verdict upon determining his Element and Origin was that he was fucked as far as talent went. So, probably no.

I don't think Shirou should be able to mimic a hero without using the weapon. Shirou is a creator, not a mimic. Unlimited Blade Works is about reproducing weapons, not about empowering Shirou directly.
He is not using UBW here. Well, not as anything more then a weapon library at least. What he is using is his natural talent for Psychometry to read Excalibur's history and replicate the skills its wielder imprinted on it. I don't see why he would need to actually materialize the weapons with Tracing to do it considering that UBW is literally part of his Soul. You can't get any closer then that.

Good grief, imagine if Cardinal learns enough about Reality Marbles that it can teach the captives how to create their own!
Well, technically speaking SAO could be considered Cardinal's Grand Reality Marble already.^_^
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
Sunder the Gold said:
Good grief, imagine if Cardinal learns enough about Reality Marbles that it can teach the captives how to create their own!
Doubt this is actually possible except in extreme cases like Shirou. It's specifically because of having sword as his origin and element that he can manifest UBW. Other than him the only ones who have managed a Reality Marble are existences that do it naturally like demons and ones that had the possibility and became Dead Apostles before they were actually able to manifest it (and barring Satsuki the super freak took a lot longer than a few years).

No pure human existence bar Shirou has done it IIRC unless you count Heroic Spirits, who got it as a Noble Phantasm after death.

Having a bunch of people do it just because some guy is able to study one (almost) directly seems a bit dumb and cheap to me.
 

shout27

Well-Known Member
Hmm, I was under the impression the it was his 'distortion' that allowed it and his origin and element simply made it much more cost-effective. . . moreover, I was also under the impression that his O+E are what gives him the potential to obtain the skills Archer showed when he materialized a noble phantasm and then Altered it's propertiesso that he could shoot it from a bow with a better Aerodynamic shape without damaging it's capabilities.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
zeebee1 said:
That was awesome. But I didn't really understand the reinforcement bit. Would it maximize based off of the maximum stat, or the current stat? Or was it just five times the current level and not connected to stats at all?
Reinforcement is a magic that improves someone to their theoretical limit. IRL this is pretty fuzzy; it's something like, if you reinforced your muscles, it gives you the performance you could achieve if you were a bodybuilder who pumped iron 10 hours a week or something.

But in the game it's really concrete: your theoretical limit is whatever your maximum possible STR stat is. But in a game there's a level mechanic, so your theoretical limit is level-dependent, because your "maximum possible stat" is level dependent.

Did this make sense to everyone? I tried to hit the right balance between over and under explaining....

Sunder the Gold said:
daniel_gudman said:
the guy in the stupid helmet was a complete mystery.
Is the point of the helmet preventing anyone from recognizing Shirou as the Sixth Ranger?

And by the way, I think that's an awesome nickname for Mr. "Never to be understood, not even once".
That's 100% why Ilya made him wear it. Well, he blew it though.

I was a little concerned people would think [Sixth Ranger] was stupid, but it fit, so I went with it. I'm glad it worked.

Amodelsino said:
Sunder the Gold said:
Good grief, imagine if Cardinal learns enough about Reality Marbles that it can teach the captives how to create their own!
Doubt this is actually possible except in extreme cases like Shirou....
Yeah, I guess people mostly go insane when they try. Kayaba might investigate it because he's interested, but on the whole, it's ultimately that RM is just too specialized a magecraft to be a practical spell for SAO development.

Is Shirou even trying to learn magecraft anyway?

This is an interesting discussion, but it's starting to get a little speculative, so I want to pull it over to the Idea thread, where my response kind of turned into an essay. My reasoning is: I want the "Preview" thread to focus on the mechanical bits of the story like zb1's question about what I meant, or typo-finds like trevelyan had (BTW I haven't hunted that one down yet) [Edit: fixed. BTW it was way the hell down in Kayaba's bit not near the top] ... whereas I want the Idea thread to be talking about longer-term plotting kind of stuff, where people can wildly speculate. I'm included in people, so I'll spoil stuff like crazy... although I might change it when I get there?


EDIT:
Sunder the Gold said:
It was tiny, hesitant, and half-hearted. But Kayaba Akihiko sincerely smiled.
Can "half-hearted" and "sincere" really be mutually inclusive?
Changed it. Now it reads:

It was tiny and hesitant. But Kayaba Akihiko sincerely smiled.

shout27 said:
Hmm, I was under the impression the it was his 'distortion' that allowed it and his origin and element simply made it much more cost-effective. . . moreover, I was also under the impression that his O+E are what gives him the potential to obtain the skills Archer showed when he materialized a noble phantasm and then Altered it's propertiesso that he could shoot it from a bow with a better Aerodynamic shape without damaging it's capabilities.
If anything, his "distortion" made it so he didn't go insane or die while creating it... but that's tentative, at best. To describe it, his "distortion" is something like "unusual calmness in horrible situations", so it's more like it would make it possible for him to calmly handle a problem like accidentally melting his brain while developing it, rather than some nonsense about "inhuman common sense".

Having a perfectly aligned origin and element was the winning super power lottery ticket, but he still had to spend the effort to cash it in and gamble the effort on acquiring the ticket, so to speak.

The core functionality of UBW is more that it's a "complete database" that records all the knowledge and blueprints he needs, wheres his Element supplies the materials listed in the blueprints and Projection is building according to them.

In that sense the most important part wasn't Projection or his alignments, but the fact that the spell he practiced and expanded every single day without fail for ten years was Structural Grasp....
 
Yumizuka Satsuki formed a Reality Marble because...

Well, okay, I want to say that it was because of the shock of dying and coming back to life, along with her enormous magical potential.

But the fact is that she went insane from the stress and horror of her experience and her new vampiric condition, and that insanity probably made a significant contribution to achieving her Reality Marble.


Still, people can recover from near-death experiences and mental breaks. (It's vampirism that's irreversible.)
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure you need a disturbed individual to generate a reality marble.

But I've been wondering. If Kirito is is going to mentor his first crush, will Shirou be the mentor to the mentor. Because Shirou is the perfect teacher a specific skill that girl could use. Who better than Shirou to teach prana burst?
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
Pretty much any actual magus, and they would suck at it.
 
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