Harry Potter HP & Sekirei

[Vorpal]

And you are an impolite twat.

That's true.

Doesn't change the fact that the electronic bit was, in fact, my hypothesis, and as far as TFF is concerned, yes, I did invent it. That doesn't mean I was the only one ever, or that I started it for the entire fandom.

More arrogant bullshit.

I never claimed that, but you're being a twat, so expecting you to do things like not putting words in my mouth is probably a bridge too far.

'kay, I'll explain in more detail so you can connects the dots better.
1. Some person posts a common fanon belief, that happens to be backed by canon.
2. Some other people proceed to discuss it further.
3. LR comes in and claims authority on the matter because once upon a time he apparently posted such theories somewhere on this board before, and claiming that they're "quoting" him, and in particular, are too dumb to realize that LR personally is the source of their ideas.
Yes, you did say that:

One of the sure ways you know you're an oldfag is when you see people quoting you at each other without realizing who they're quoting.

This is 100% pure arrogant BS. Neither do you get any iota of argumentative authority for simply being the first to post something on a some particular web forum, nor does the fact that they've posted here means in any way they're copying/'quoting'/whatever you.

1. The HP fandom is large.
2. The issue is very common belief among it, because it's backed by canon in the books and in interviews by Rowling (e.g., who specifically explains radio working as because it does not work by electricity).
3. Therefore: Just because people discuss the idea on TFF something on TFF does not mean they got it from TFF in general or you specifically. No one is beholden you for being first on TFF. Chances are, they haven't even heard of your 'landmark achievement' until this very day (I know I didn't). And they wouldn't owe you any magical persuasive points even if they did. Get over yourself.

And yes, pretty much the only way your claim of people stealing your ideas (er sorry, quoting without realizing or whatever) are even remotely reasonable is that if you personally are responsible for it throughout the fandom.

 

[The Eromancer]

Dunno about anyone else but I was just typing my thoughts about magitech out as I made them up, oh no doubt you might have mentioned magitech Raine but your hardly the first, hardly the only one, and will hardly be the last, especially after this thread is buried under others.

Also your "quote" ya, I found it. And your NOT the first one to talk about it.

<a href='http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8742&st=0' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>BEHOLD!</a>

 

[Avider]

Holy crap that was 4 years ago!

That's!

...

That's not really all that much time at all. /shrugs

 

[zeebee1]

It's not Minata or Minato. It's Minaka.

 

[Algnar]

to get back to the electicy debate, "interfering with electricity" is still a rather nebulous concept.

We know nothing about hows or why. Could be that some previous headmaster put up an enchantment so that muggle students couldn't bring in their nefarious gramophones and play their evil ragtime!

Or it could be that Hogwarts is so saturated with shit that makes even quantum physics cry, and the electrons give up, and refuse to move till they get the hell away from a place that is even crazier then Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

Either theory is possible. I think though that Rowling is on record somewhere as saying that in general magic DOESN'T interfere with electrical stuff (unless the magic is designed to do so deliberately)

 

[Lord Raine]

bitching

You're pretty whiny for a lurker that doesn't know what they're talking about.

More arrogant bullshit.

More correct facts, you mean. It's exactly right. I did invent that, which is a side effect of:

A.) Being here a long time.

and

B.) Actually contributing to shit, unlike you.

Sometimes you invent things. Doubtless you do not understand what that feels like, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I have no idea who you are or where you get off being a gigantic cunt for no reason. If you want to argue, well, for starters, be somebody I give a shit about, but ignoring that, if you want to argue, at least do something intelligent like "but this is untrue because this person in this post right here predated what you said about electricity, so you're wrong."

That would actually be an argument. And if it could actually be cited, I would cheerfully admit fault. You, however, are just being a little bitch, for whatever reason you have, and I don't give nearly half a shit enough to argue with someone like you with that sort of dysfunction.

In summary, no one knows you, and no one cares. Also, your argument is shit.

no doubt you might have mentioned magitech Raine but your hardly the first,

This isn't about magitech. This is about electricity, and how it works with magic.

 

[The Eromancer]

no doubt you might have mentioned magitech Raine but your hardly the first,

This isn't about magitech. This is about electricity, and how it works with magic.

Magic and technology, electricity is technology your honestly telling us that these two topics "Magic and how it effects electricity" and "Magitech: which is how magic and technology work together" aren't the same or similar?

<_<

In any case you've made a pretty bold claim that you were the first one to make such a statement, since you made the claim doesn't it befall you to show proof?

Hell any of us could make the same claim, you'd call bullshit of course but unless NO ONE here could say otherwise wouldn't you just have to accept it? No, of course you wouldn't Raine, I know that much about you. You'd demand proof.

So here I go. Raine I'm demanding proof of your claim.

Doesn't change the fact that the electronic bit was, in fact, my hypothesis, and as far as TFF is concerned, yes, I did invent it. That doesn't mean I was the only one ever, or that I started it for the entire fandom.

This will be simple since you say you invented it for TFF we just need two things to prove it.
One) a dated quote that you said it first
Two) a dated quote of else said it as early as possible

 

[Ninsaneja]

Electricity is not required for technology and especially not for magictech.

You could run, for example, a house fan off of something enchanted to spin (not to mention motors or basically any regular technology).

Magical fire would also work for the same reasons (it just needs to heat something to spin something etc.) Though that would make a crappy house fan.


If magic and electricity work together, then said spinning enchantment is a perpetual motion device that creates electricity.

EDIT: And as to the main topic, I personally think that Minaka should just use london instead of japan. That's an interesting cross hook.

 

[Vorpal]

That would actually be an argument. And if it could actually be cited, I would cheerfully admit fault. You, however, are just being a little bitch, for whatever reason you have, and I don't give nearly half a shit enough to argue with someone like you with that sort of dysfunction.

Yet you're all "waahh you people got this from me so you should pay me royalties on it by considering my opinions extra-special". Ironic.

If you want to argue, well, for starters, be somebody I give a shit about, but ignoring that, if you want to argue, at least do something intelligent like "but this is untrue because this person in this post right here predated what you said about electricity, so you're wrong."

No, actually, the point was just that the entire claim is utterly irrelevant. Even if it were completely true, it wouldn't make anyone whatsoever beholden to you or your opinions on this matter, nor does the fact that they're doing so on this board would make you responsible for their ideas. Your inability to understand just this and acting as though it would is just what I said previously: bullshit.

Look, I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted to convey, but when you say that people are quoting you, you are claiming actual responsibility for their ideas and denying theirs, and your repeated emphasis on this and summary at the end just cements the impression that "me first!" is intended to be an actual reason for persuasion. Those two things are what I object to, and would still object just as well even if your claim that you were first were factually accurate.

On the actual electricity issue, I've said or alluded to the following previously:
1) You're incorrect about our ignorance and what is and what isn't. Or rather, we're told at least somewhat more specific examples: electricity, computers, radar. The character saying is renowned for being anal about facts and research.
2) You have a good point about the 'what it does' being rather ambiguous--canon description is just 'go haywire', so it really could be just about anything.
3) The stated canon reason is explicitly 'too much' magic, as you and Tsuki_CB have also stated. (So yea, it's obvious that computers in wizarding homes are at least plausible--HP is not Dresden Files.)
I should have given more evidence: Colin Creevey's camera/flash, which does actually on magic in the books, and Rowling's interviews explaining wizard radio as working because it is not electrical. Thus, we have character testimony, actual devices, and Word of God, and all of them have something critically to do with electricity and have circuitry in them.

N.B. muggle devices that are "basic electronics" involve circuitry, Creevey's camera predated microchips and transistors (technically it doesn't, but it's an Argus C3 Matchmatic, which is a minor revision of an older 1939 model), and also both radar and radio also predates them. Although the specific model aped by wizards in the movies seems to be a transistor one.

 

[Lord Raine]

electricity is technology

No, it is not. What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[The Eromancer]

electricity is technology

No, it is not. What the fuck is wrong with you?

well shit, that part wasn't supposed to read like that, I meant to say "Harnessed electricity is technology".

Typo. :huh.:

BTW lets not forget the rest of that post. Burden of Proof and all that.

 

[Lord Raine]

BTW lets not forget the rest of that post.

Okay.

your honestly telling us that these two topics "Magic and how it effects electricity" and "Magitech: which is how magic and technology work together" aren't the same or similar?

Yes, I am saying they aren't the same. I'm not saying they aren't similar, but then, I never did, and that's just you putting words into my mouth.

Not that I haven't come to expect that.

Burden of Proof and all that.

And I will never fulfill it.

1.) I've done it in the past, and it has made no difference. People, yourself included, have arbitrarily discarded evidence and citations in the past simply because they did not line up with what you personally believed to be true. I'm not going to waste my time doing this for someone who thinks baseless assertions that I am wrong combined with [INSERT INSULT HERE] is a fair and valid argumentative tactic.

2.) I don't care enough to go digging through the forum for a discussion that took place years ago when I don't even know what thread it was in, or, for that matter, what section of the forum it was in. That's entirely too much work even if I was assured that people would not dismiss it out of hand. This is an argument on the internet. Quite frankly, I don't give enough fucks to do that. I've already been insulted pointlessly and unnecessarily, and it would happen again no matter what I do, so from my perspective, I could either do an assload of work, the argument won't stop, and I'll be insulted, or I can not do an assload of work, the argument won't stop, and I'll be insulted.

I'll opt for the option that involves less work. Also, the pointless bitchfest has ruined this thread pretty thoroughly anyway, which I feel kind of bad about, because this might have actually had some potential if people had stopped twating on about technology for five seconds and actually used their goddamn imaginations.

Maybe the Sekirei thing is a magical event that only happens, say, once every thousand years, and it just so happens that one of those years is X year in Harry Potter's time at Hogwarts, and Harry just so happens to be an Ashikabi. Things could go from there, as a nice mixture of both sides, while preserving a sense of both prestige and mystery, as not much is known about the actual mechanics of this, but there are all sorts of legends about Sekirei and Ashikabi in magical lore, so when it gets out that the game is on, it's a huge deal, and when people find out that Harry is an Ashikabi, it's an even bigger deal than the whole Triwizard Champion thing.

But no, you had to make this about the goddamn technology, and then the bitchy lurker whatshisface got a blender in his vagina about a self-depricating joke about how long I've been on the forum and decided to try and make his e-penis bigger by starting a fight over it, and now I just can't be assed to care about any of this anymore.

Sorry that your thread got fucked, chronodekar. If you want serious help working on the idea, just let me know. I'll be more than happy to help.

 

[Vorpal]

Comedy gold. A guy who can barely make a post without at least three references to how big and important he is... is acussing people of stroking their e-peens.

Look at this from the beginning: I called your apparent reason that being inventor of some line of argument gave you logical authority or made you the cause of everyone's elses posts arrogant bullshit. Instead of dealing it somewhat reasonably, e.g.,:
-- "Take a joke, dimwit: it's just a bit of self-deprecating humor, not a reason."
instead you...
-- escalate and escalate from calling people twats and leaving a plethora of references to vaginas, e-peens and various unsavory attacks?

A guy who does that... is complaining about throwing hissy fits?
A guy who does that... is complaining about being insulted unnecessarily?
A guy who does that... is now pretending to be 'above it all' after having throwing such a fit because a "no name" called him arrogant?
Comedy gold.

Stay classy, Lord Raine. Stay classy.

1.) I've done it in the past, and it has made no difference. People, yourself included, have arbitrarily discarded evidence and citations in the past simply because they did not line up with what you personally believed to be true. I'm not going to waste my time doing this for someone who thinks baseless assertions that I am wrong combined with [INSERT INSULT HERE] is a fair and valid argumentative tactic.

Yeah, if that's meant to actually be applicable to this thread, it's pretty much a bald-faced lie (and if it isn't meant to apply to this thread, then sorry, but why is it here at all?). I'll prove this:
1) I'm the only one who insulted you in this thread: either by calling one of your reasons arrogant bullshit or just simply implying that one of the insults you threw at me is more applicable to your own behavior.
So the only person in this thread that it could apply to is me. I'm pretty sure of this, though with your sensitivity maybe you feel someone else insulted you as well and I just failed to perceive it.
2) When I thus insulted you, I did not discard any evidence nor even disagree with your conclusions--the only thing I discarded was you having some 'prior art' having anything to do with (unless you want to flip-flop back and consider that evidence!). In fact, the complete opposite: I called many of your points good.
Therefore, at no point in this thread did what you describe happen, since the only person that insulted you did not even assert that you were wrong about electricity at the time those insults happened.

You're lying... well, either that or it's a non-sequitur.

But yet again, I can't help but gape in wonder yet more delicious irony that you exit with such a bile-filled post right after I went back and considered the evidence you actually gave and showed many of your conclusions were most likely incorrect based on canon and Word of God.

 

[The Eromancer]

Shit goes off topic in threads on this forum every damn day in just about every damn thread and if it hasn't then its only a matter of time but this time not so much as far as the magitech goes because we were considering that Minaka could either have been a wizard or a squib and since his company is giant tech corporation OF COURSE we'd get into how magic and tech work together so this thread wasn't even really Off Topic to begin with!

So your entire claim is just a claim, bravo. So do not tell us you invented anything on this forum and expect us to simply nod our heads and go, "sure why not, its not like Raine ever just doesn't claim wild ass shit about himself" And where's my burden of proof? Well I don't have time to go digging through the forums for shit you've pulled in the past that's entirely too much work even if I was assured that you would not dismiss it out of hand. This is an argument on the internet. Quite frankly, I don't give enough fucks to do that. I've already been insulted pointlessly and unnecessarily, and it would happen again no matter what I do, so from my perspective, I could either do an assload of work, the argument won't stop, and I'll be insulted, or I can not do an assload of work, the argument won't stop, and I'll be insulted.

You wanna keep this shit civil don't go starting shit and walking in here like ya own the damn forum, that's Hawk. Yet here you go going around and with just about every post you make your not so subtlety and maybe even inadvertently taking potshots at other people's intelligence and creativity. Your abrasive personality inflames people more than you apparently will ever get. Of course you will ignore this, after all your always right.

Raine let me be completely honest, no bullshit with you. I've never once not enjoyed reading your posts it doesn't matter to me if I knew you were wrong or right. It was the difference in opinion that I was interested in, you honestly think you know better than everyone else, your infallible, the "All Knowing Lord Raine" come from down on high to instruct us mere mortals in what is truth and right. "How can anyone have such an arrogant personality?", I ask myself countless times and so, I'd poke. Most people have learned to stay out of your way or tiptoe around you because you make such great arguments, they sound legit. Yet I've never just been to just take info at face value especially when it you got this little habit of seeding your posts with insults that I honestly don't think you even realize your putting in.

And if you do then your just a dick who's actually starting the shit on purpose and for what reason I won't even begin to question.

 

[GiftofLove]

I think we might be over thinking the problem a bit with all these suggestions of why Harry would be interested in staying in Tokyo for the Sekirei Plan. We're already provided with a reason, after all. Harry is a good guy who can't help but do what he considers to be the 'right thing', and Minaka is playing with the lives of an entire species here. The questionably first intelligent alien species to ever visit Earth, at that. I can see his hero complex just eating that up.

Not to mention that if he wings a Sekirei, and we assume that MBI is shielded from magic with my earlier idea, he can't exactly easily leave the city whether he wants to or not. I doubt he could bring himself to leave behind his new alien harem.

 

[chronodekar]

Not to mention that if he wings a Sekirei, and we assume that MBI is shielded from magic with my earlier idea, he can't exactly easily leave the city whether he wants to or not. I doubt he could bring himself to leave behind his new alien harem.

Assuming he gets a harem. Nothing wrong with the idea, but a single winging would also be enough for a fic.

-chronodekar

 

[GiftofLove]

You'll have to excuse the slip. I wrote that after reading the latest In Flight chapter. Personally, I think the story would work better with a single winging, but then you'd miss out on all that delicious culture shock between Sekirei relationships and the kind Harry is used to.

Unfortunately it seems like no one writes harem fics with the proper amount of societal and interpersonal tension.

 

[Kibbles]

Unfortunately it seems like no one writes harem fics with the proper amount of societal and interpersonal tension.

Writing characters is hard enough, but the level of complexity necessary for a proper functioning multi-partner relationship that isn't utterly screwed up or based on alien social mores (i.e. the Ottoman harem or, well, Sekirei, really) is a whole other level of difficulty. At best, you might get a 2+1 outcome ... and even that is not something Western (or just about any monogamous society) is wired for, there's a lot of difficulties to overcome, even without taking into account societal reactions. Not to mention that with each additional character, keeping the tangled mess of interpersonal relationships straight gets that much harder (unless you want paper cut-outs instead of people, in which case ... not as difficult).

I will qualify that by saying that, yes, it would make for an interesting culture shock. Sekirei are wired differently, not only accepting of multiple partners to a single dominant individual (whether male or female), but fully expecting it and viewing having multiple partners attached to said individual as a sign of prestige, power and desirability. Not something that meshes well with a modern westerner.

Still, for ease of characterization, I'd advise to keep it at a minimal number. There's a lot of dross (by that I mean characters) that can be cut away without much effect on the plot proper and it would make things somewhat easier in the characterization angle. Less characters, more spot-light time, more chance of proper development.

 

[Lord Raine]

Are we actually going to do this idea, or what?

Because I'm still a fan of the idea that the Sekirei Wars are a thing in international magical culture.

 

[daniel_gudman]

So I just realized--

Veela.

Are the Sekirei like, totally something Harry (should have) learned about in History of Magic?

 

[The Eromancer]

We know the Sekirei interbreed with humans way back when, are you suggesting the Veela are one such potential descendants of them?

I mean I know when they get pissed they are liable to start throwing around fireballs and might be based on Harpies but I dunno if that works.

 

[chronodekar]

I'm going to risk a religious debate, BUT, on the topic of polygamy(1 husband + multiple wives) - are you aware that it's permitted in Modern Muslim society?

I bring this up because, it's perfectly legal in my country (India) to do so. There are a couple of restrictions but the ones I'm familiar with are, (I'm a Christian, by the way)

* the "couple" should be of the same religion/cast
* the husband MUST have the consent of his first wife before he can take another

There are probably more, but those are the ones that strike me. First hand, I don't know anyone who's done it, but from 3rd party sources I understand that it's done in some rural areas.

However, what strikes me as relevant to THIS discussion is that among the more educated & wealthy folks, it's very rare. My point being that it doesn't look like many consider the option to be worth the benefits.

Please don't misunderstand me, I really enjoy reading fiction about it, but to make it "realistic" is just messy. Most stories seem to assume that the "wives" get along with each other, and in front of the husband, they probably do. But, when a dispute pops up, things WILL get messy.

I haven't EVER come across a fiction (fanfic or otherwise) that deals with such issues. And honestly, I'm not sure I want to either. :mellow:

To dissipate any misguided religious zealots, I would like to mention that Mormon Christians in the US are known to practice polygamy too. In fact, I think the issue came up once on a Discovery TV show.

-chronodekar

 

[nick012000]

More accurately, the Mormon Church used to practice polygamy, and then banned the practice to appeal to the social norms of the greater society, causing the relatively small faction that still practised it to break away and form their own church. There's also been a growing movement among liberals/libertarians called polyamory, which can be pretty much summed up as "any consensual non-standard relationship configuration", and distinguished from swinging and open marriages in that you're not trading partners or sleeping around, but actually forming relationships with multiple partners, and cheating in that everyone's okay about it.

 

[chronodekar]

:huh: Man, that's going to be confusing to keep track of. Glad I'm not in it.

-chronodekar

 

[Ashaman]

Unfortunately it seems like no one writes harem fics with the proper amount of societal and interpersonal tension.

Writing characters is hard enough, but the level of complexity necessary for a proper functioning multi-partner relationship that isn't utterly screwed up or based on alien social mores (i.e. the Ottoman harem or, well, Sekirei, really) is a whole other level of difficulty. At best, you might get a 2+1 outcome ... and even that is not something Western (or just about any monogamous society) is wired for, there's a lot of difficulties to overcome, even without taking into account societal reactions. Not to mention that with each additional character, keeping the tangled mess of interpersonal relationships straight gets that much harder (unless you want paper cut-outs instead of people, in which case ... not as difficult).

I will qualify that by saying that, yes, it would make for an interesting culture shock. Sekirei are wired differently, not only accepting of multiple partners to a single dominant individual (whether male or female), but fully expecting it and viewing having multiple partners attached to said individual as a sign of prestige, power and desirability. Not something that meshes well with a modern westerner.

Still, for ease of characterization, I'd advise to keep it at a minimal number. There's a lot of dross (by that I mean characters) that can be cut away without much effect on the plot proper and it would make things somewhat easier in the characterization angle. Less characters, more spot-light time, more chance of proper development.

To be honest, a lot of harem fics ignore the haremettes as actual people, and instead end up being treated as trophys.

It ends up as "Hey, look at <s>me</s> the MC, he has a dozen girls in love with him, <s>I'm</s> he's amazing."

And it ignores that the girls have feelings that aren't admiration or lust. You know, like jealousy.

This is one of the reasons I dislike Harem fics but like harem manga; at least in the manga there is romantic tension.

Now on to the other bit - Sekirei aren't as 'wired' differently as you suggest. While its true that they are more open to 'open' relationships, they display definite monogomist tendencies. If they were truly polygamists, they wouldn't mind it when their Ashikabi (Minato in this case) spends a long period of time out or alone with another of his Sekirei.

Although muted, they display very "HE'S MINE!" behaviours through out.

Also, its hard to say how much the fact that they are being forced into a tournament is affecting their normal state when it comes to romance.

Or on the other hand, how being raised in the lab affects them.