Harry Potter HP & Sekirei

Ina_meishou

Well-Known Member
#76
Polygamy does not mean lack of jealousy, polyamory is not a movement so much as a descriptor. and anyone here ever actually been part of or right next to an actual, working polygamous relationship?

Lets start from the top, polygamy is just a marriage (or more broadly a relationship) with more than two partners, this can be two girls and a guy, three guys, two guys and a girl, three girls, etc. Polygyny is specifically multiple females and one male, polyandry is multiple males and one female. All of these relationship types are possible and sustainable, for some people.

All of this is opposed by the more common (in most english speaking countries anyway) idea of serial monogamy, one pair coupling at a time. Monogamy and serial monogamy can also be sustainable relationship types, for some people.

The issue with people writing multiple partner relationships is the same one with people writing romance in general. A whole bunch of people have no fucking idea what they're talking about. They bring in magical bonds, or just assume that everyone is bisexual and polyamorous, or a bunch of other shit that they assume is needed to make it work.

All that is needed is three people, two of which are having a relationship with the third. You can get more involved, I've seen some relationships that are actually a triangle rather than a V, and those are fine for people who feel that way. But I've also seen relationships where two people agreed to share a third's time and attentions, and they generally worked out fine. Or others were there were more than three people and the lines of 'who cares romantically about who and who is fucking who when' got ridiculously tangled. But it worked for them.

Not flawlessly with never any conflict, there is always conflict in relationships, but manageable conflict that was dealt with sensibly and maturely.

It's not a matter of being 'wired' for it. It's a matter of being willing and able to work for it.

Are the Sekirei polyamorous? demonstrably not given that their entire design revolves around a bond of love with one person.

Are they perfectly capable of being in polygamous relationships anyway? yep.

Are they incapable of feeling emotional kinship with other sekirei, or even humans, and working with those people to manage their relationships? Probably no more or less than humans, once you peel away the usual harem anime baggage.

Does any sekirei fic need to be a harem fic? no

Can it be without being trash? yes
 

Seed00

Well-Known Member
#77
Ina_meishou said:
Can we ever have a sekirei fic without having Akitsu being there in the harem? Not. Bloody. Likely. More like never. Akitsu will always be there.
 

The Eromancer

Well-Known Member
#79
Or we could have a twist in this instance. Harry DOESN'T become an Ashikabi like everyone expects. But his Hero thing does have him taking in Akitsu who -much like from In Flight- means she's declared Harry her master. Honestly I think this would raise more potential shenanigans for Harry than if his friends found about him winging any Sekirei.

Akitsu winged herself, did they ever give an explanation as to HOW?
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#80
That recent omake indicated it was a cock-up on the part of the adjustment process.

Ha ha ha.

HARRY: I'm sorry, but.... something like Winging, for me... that one is already dead. She died for my sake, so... I won't take another. For me, Hedwig was an irreplaceable bird.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#81
Ina_meishou said:
The issue with people writing multiple partner relationships is the same one with people writing romance in general.? A whole bunch of people have no fucking idea what they're talking about. They bring in magical bonds, or just assume that everyone is bisexual and polyamorous, or a bunch of other shit that they assume is needed to make it work.
To be fair, in some continuities, it seems like this is canonical. Take the Nasuverse, for example; pretty much every woman in every work since Fate/Stay Night is either bisexual or has bisexual subtext. Rin, Saber, Rider-Medusa, Caster-Medea, and Irisveil definitely are; they all either engage in sex with or pursue romantic relationships with both genders. Sakura, Ayako, and Taiga are somewhat more ambiguous, though there's hints they might be (Sakura's rape of Rin in a bad end, Ayako's sexually charged bet with Rin, and some of the stuff Taiga does in the Einzbern Consultation Hour). IIRC there's a hefty dose of lesbian subtext about the Aozaki sisters and Alice in Mahoyo; that picture of Touko shopped to proclaim "BISEXUALS" was done for a reason. About the only characters without any lesbian subtext are Ilya, Maiya, Sola-Ui, and Aoi, all of whom are either totally fixated on one man or a giant doormat.
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
#82
Seed00 said:
Can we ever have a sekirei fic without having Akitsu being there in the harem? Not. Bloody. Likely. More like never. Akitsu will always be there.
Allow me to direct your attention to THIS wonderful fic. A brilliantly written story where Akitsu is on the opposing team. It recently came to a conclusion and stirred up a lot of emotion in me when I read it.

<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8078340' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Postnuptial Disagreements</a>

@daniel_gudman,

I won't take another. For me, Hedwig was an irreplaceable bird.
BRILLIANT !!!! :D

-chronodekar
 

The Eromancer

Well-Known Member
#83
well aren't Media and Medusa both out of Ancient Greece? I'm not familiar with their culture but from what I've seen that shouldn't surprise us. Can't speak for the others.
 

Kibbles

Well-Known Member
#85
The Eromancer said:
well aren't Media and Medusa both out of Ancient Greece? I'm not familiar with their culture but from what I've seen that shouldn't surprise us. Can't speak for the others.
Women were largely ignored in Antiquity Hellas, though, yeah, bisexuality was pretty standard. Homosexual relations were fair game, though in male/male relationships penetration was ... frowned upon as being unworthy of a free male (note the word free, doing it with your slave was perfectly fine as long as it wasn't the slave doing the penetrating). This was why the Theban Sacred Band was looked down upon, it was common knowledge that they did engage in actual, not merely oral sex, despite being free men. Additionally, household slaves (that is, ones not used for heavy labour) were used for 'entertainment', both of the owner and of guests visiting, particularly when the master of the household had that weekly get-together with his buddies.

And then there's, of course, the Spartan creepy marriage traditions which involved kidnapping, women pretending to be men by dressing like one and by shaving their head and other shenanigans.

But this whole debate is beside the point ... and, anyway, is anyone writing this (or planning to) or is this whole thread just a conceptual discussion?
 
#86
I've been thinking about working up an outline when I get off this weekend. I'm not sure how far it'll go though, as I've got a couple of ideas for Fate/Stay Night and Familiar of Zero that I want to get scratched out in the same period and they're higher up on my to-do list.

Also need to get around to finding a copy of Monster Girl Quest. So much to do, so little time.
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
#87
Kibbles said:
But this whole debate is beside the point ... and, anyway, is anyone writing this (or planning to) or is this whole thread just a conceptual discussion?
If you are asking about the thread title, "HP + Sekirei" I'm just fishing for ideas. At the moment, I have another story in the pipeline which would keep me busy for a few months and after that, I think I might pick this idea up.

But what stumped me initially was - could the crossover work?

-chronodekar
 

Lord Raine

Well-Known Member
#88
Technically speaking, Christianity doesn't have a problem with it either.

In theory.

Ex: Adam had two wives, though nobody likes to talk about the first one (Lilith was kind of a psychotic bitch), God was totally chill with Solomon having a hojillion wives, and in fact held him up as an exemplar of what people should try to be (and gave Solomon a magic ring that let him command All The Demons), and the biggest polygamous relationship in existence can be accredited to none other than Jesus of Nazarath himself, as all Nuns past, present, and future are, by definition, the Brides of Christ.

Christianity doesn't have rules about it so much as it, historically speaking, doesn't actually care one way or the other. This changed with the Puritans, and with the lack of separation of Church and State in America (where the law that a marriage must be between one man and one woman made polygamous, polyamorous, and homosexual relationships against the law by definition, which in turn shaped the religious doctrines of the time).
 

Seed00

Well-Known Member
#89
chronodekar said:
Seed00 said:
Can we ever have a sekirei fic without having Akitsu being there in the harem? Not. Bloody. Likely. More like never. Akitsu will always be there.
Allow me to direct your attention to THIS wonderful fic. A brilliantly written story where Akitsu is on the opposing team. It recently came to a conclusion and stirred up a lot of emotion in me when I read it.

<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8078340' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Postnuptial Disagreements</a>

@daniel_gudman,

I won't take another. For me, Hedwig was an irreplaceable bird.
BRILLIANT !!!! :D

-chronodekar
Oh believe me, I've been following that gem. When Akitsu showed up against the protagonist, I was *ecstatic*. Awesome refresher, and awesome story.
 

Vorpal

Well-Known Member
#90
Lord Raine said:
Technically speaking, Christianity doesn't have a problem with it either. In theory.
That's stretching things. Even in theory.

Lord Raine said:
Ex: Adam had two wives, though nobody likes to talk about the first one (Lilith was kind of a psychotic bitch), ...
This is mistaken on several levels. First, Lilith is not present in the Christian Bible or recognized by Christianity at all for vast majority of Christians. She's present in Jewish myth, though only in exegis and not the Torah proper. Perhaps some Christian gnostic sect also adopted her, but if so that's far from most Christians. Second, even in said myth, Adam never had two wives at once. Being married twice is not the same thing as polygamy.

Fun factoid: an overly literal reading of the myth would have it that the reason for Lilith abandoning Adam was because he wouldn't let her ride him cowgirl-style.

Lord Raine said:
God was totally chill with Solomon having a hojillion wives, and in fact held him up as an exemplar of what people should try to be (and gave Solomon a magic ring that let him command All The Demons), ...
Not true. In fact, God very much disapproved of Solomon's marital situation, as it caused him to sin against God. Whatever Solomon's other virtues were, this was never presented as one of them. Quite the opposite... though that particular passage is ambiguous as to whether God's main problem was the fact that they were many or the fact that most of them were foreigners, Deuteronomy forbids kings of Israel to have many wives, regardless of whether or not they are of Israel or foreign.

Lord Raine said:
... and the biggest polygamous relationship in existence can be accredited to none other than Jesus of Nazarath himself, as all Nuns past, present, and future are, by definition, the Brides of Christ.
If it's meant to be applicable to polygamy in general, that's an interpretation that stretches quite far from its meaning in context.

Lord Raine said:
Christianity doesn't have rules about it so much as it, historically speaking, doesn't actually care one way or the other. This changed with the Puritans, and with the lack of separation of Church and State in America (where the law that a marriage must be between one man and one woman made polygamous, polyamorous, and homosexual relationships against the law by definition, which in turn shaped the religious doctrines of the time).
Also false. Although it's technically true that there is no explicit Biblical commandment against polygamy in general, there is a rather strong undercurrent of disapproval running through it--its mentioned in proximity to sins, given as the cause of sin of otherwise virtuous men, etc. For example, for explicitly Christian texts like 1 Timothy, although there is again no explicit "thou shalt not" or the like, having more than one wife makes one disqualified from being "above reproach". Hence, it is at least disapproved of.

More to the point of the above claims in particular, although I've no idea just when Christian sensibilities on this matter made their way into secular law, it takes only a bit of familiarity with history to see the claimed connection to Puritanism cannot possibly be right, because the very (in)famous shenanigans of Henry VIII predate Puritanism.
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
#92
Vorpal said:
Although it's technically true that there is no explicit Biblical commandment against polygamy in general, there is a rather strong undercurrent of disapproval running through it
@Vorpal,

I agree with your entire post - but to clarify this one point, you are correct in that it's only a STRONG undercurrent, but there's nothing forth-right banning it. If anything, we have something of the opposite. Remember the story where Jesus was asked - of the 7 brothers, in heaven who will be her husband? He replied along the lines of "such associations don't matter".

Personally, I feel that as Christians, the idea is to live according to our beliefs and be as honorable as we can possibly be. If one has the capability and desire to be in a polygamous relationship, I have no objections to it.

However, if my sister (don't have one) were to get involved in such an affair, I would have serious concerns. Concerns, not necessarily objections.

As for me, I think one girl would be more than I can handle anyway. -_-

-chronodekar
 

Lord Raine

Well-Known Member
#93
Vorpal said:
Lord Raine said:
Technically speaking, Christianity doesn't have a problem with it either. In theory.
That's stretching things. Even in theory.
But still correct, which is more than can be said for anything you or Erosennin have said in this thread.

Now, are we actually going to talk about this idea, or is just going to be two bitches butthurt all silent night?
 

Vorpal

Well-Known Member
#94
Please stop projecting. You posted on a tangent involving several points. At least three of them are mistaken as a matter of just looking up the sources directly or a matter of historical record, though others do have some room for dispute due to interpretation. I corrected them. That's it.

chronodekar said:
If anything, we have something of the opposite. Remember the story where Jesus was asked - of the 7 brothers, in heaven who will be her husband? He replied along the lines of "such associations don't matter".
Yes. Jesus very purposely separated "this age" from "after the Resurrection" though.

Also, if we admit contextual deductions such as these, the whole story is evidence that polygamy should not be practiced, at minimum for the polyandry type. Look at what's going on--Jesus is tested on his understanding of Scripture by people seeking to trap him into admitting a heresy. Even if the Sadducees did not wish to do this (the Pharisees in the scene certainly did), the question is still almost certainly intended to be a reductio ad absurdum: if polyandry is allowed, there is no point for the Sadducees to ask the question.

chronodekar said:
Personally, I feel that as Christians, the idea is to live according to our beliefs and be as honorable as we can possibly be. If one has the capability and desire to be in a polygamous relationship, I have no objections to it.
I agree with the sentiment. However, this would require an attitude toward the Bible that many Christian denominations would consider as straying far from 'real' Christianity. (That's not intended as a condemnation from me, by the way.)
 

Seed00

Well-Known Member
#95
That's two threadjacks. We just need one more. All we need now is for GH for pop up and this will be complete.
 

GaelicDragon

Well-Known Member
#97
necro---necro---necro


ok, now that I have that out of my system.

---


How about Harry the wandering Veteran?

Shortly after the battle of Hogwart's and after Hermione has found her parents, Harry discovers the concept of a "walkabout". He grabs ahold of this idea with both hands.

So, Harry the international traveler, staying in hostels, visiting some of the other magical countries, but mainly following a course of the old British Empire (being he only speaks English). After a stay in Australia, he decides to visit a few of the near-by Asia countries.

And now he is at a youth hostel in Shin-Tokyo. Visiting the sites and enjoying being a tourist for the time being. That is when he feels something...that is just wrong. It turns out to be a Sekirei battle. One on the battlers claims to feel "drawn to him".

Now Minaka has to wonder who invited the Luddite into his game...after having to send a phone with one of the disciplinary squad to get his introduction message to Harry.

Harry, while dealing with his own issues from his war against Voldemort, now has to deal with a city wide battle field...in a country that he has only the barest grasp of the language.
--

As for the thought about the argument laid about magic and electronics...magic generally doesn't seem to do anything to electronics. Even with the rather powerful ward over the house, Dudley still played his Playstation with no...technical problems (he did throw the damn thing through a window). The only issue with electronic devices not working...is at Hogwart's.

Now the only thing that comes to mind for me...is like walking into a room with a couple of large tesla coils running. You are going to be fine...your cell phone and cheap Casio watch are probably not going to survive unmodified. Unlike most places, Hogwarts is seeped with magic, so much that it might overload the transistors on even the most basic of electronics.

Or its a curse cast upon Hogwart's by the headmaster before Dumbledore, just to force the muggleborn to break away from their society.
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
#98
@GaelicDragon,

I for one, don't care about the necro and much appreciate more input for this idea.

The "wandering Veteran" is a nice idea, but I think something similar was suggested before. Either that, or my memory is getting hazy.

-chronodekar
 

Duraiken

Well-Known Member
#99
Here's something I've been pondering off and on with different fandoms crossing into Sekerei - What if you had a married couple who had an "open relationship" i.e.: they've invited other people to share their bed with them before from amongst their friends (providing everyone involved agrees, of course,) wander into the Sekerei Plan.

Fitting it into here, what if Harry had married say... Luna Lovegood. They're chasing some rumors Luna's heard, perhaps about the mysterious wiggling (and jiggling) wagtail? And if both of them ended up as Ashikabi? How would their Sekerei interpret the situation? Just some ideas.
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
Duraiken said:
Here's something I've been pondering off and on with different fandoms crossing into Sekerei - What if you had a married couple who had an "open relationship" i.e.: they've invited other people to share their bed with them before from amongst their friends (providing everyone involved agrees, of course,) wander into the Sekerei Plan.

Fitting it into here, what if Harry had married say... Luna Lovegood. They're chasing some rumors Luna's heard, perhaps about the mysterious wiggling (and jiggling) wagtail? And if both of them ended up as Ashikabi? How would their Sekerei interpret the situation? Just some ideas.
With Luna Lovegood ... That. Just. Might. Work. :eek:

Good idea ! ^_^

-chronodekar
 
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