Akamatsuverse [Negima] Can normal people fight them?

[Ryoiichi Matsumoto]

Can normal people fight them?

I think the question Crusader really meant to ask was "Can people in this world (that is, outside of the manga) find some way to defeat a mage (the likes of which are contained in the manga) if we and they existed in the same universe (Mundus Magicus being an example of an alternate plane in the same universe)?"

THAT DOESN'T COUNT

Then neither do any of your examples.

Who's examples, Raine? Because without a name, and since no one said those exact words, you appear to just be shouting at thin air. If I may, shall I remind you of this incident in which you tried to argue just to argue? I will now stop here as my point is made.

 

[Grunt]

Can normal people fight them?

Have we seen anyone who took time to try to learn magic actually fail at it entirely because they lacked a spark of magic in them?

Not entirely...the most that was claimed up till now was that Takahata is incapable of incantations, though we already know that he is still capable of using magic power.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

Can normal people fight them?

A normal person isn't likely to know how to operate an assault weapon

Texas.

 

[biigoh]

Can normal people fight them?

A normal person isn't likely to know how to operate an assault weapon

Texas.

Singapore or any other country with mandatory military service.

I can drive a bloody tank if I need to, field-strip and use an AR-15. And it has been over a decade since I was in the singapore military. Normal people can and do know how to use assault weapons.

 

[Crusader]

Can normal people fight them?

So are we discounting people who have the potenial to cast magic, or just the ones who know how to?

You come with an interesting question there.

I think i would caterogize those who have the spark for magic, but are oblivious to the existence and handling of it as normals until they first start using magic and then polace themselves in the magic user/paranormal category.

Normal people who have knowledge about magic but are unable to use it could be considered scholars of the occult, but not magic users since they can't utilize magic.

I think the question Crusader really meant to ask was "Can people in this world (that is, outside of the manga) find some way to defeat a mage (the likes of which are contained in the manga) if we and they existed in the same universe (Mundus Magicus being an example of an alternate plane in the same universe)?"

I was generally talking about the normal mundane non-magic users on Earth in the MSN-universe, but normals in other worlds where magic doesn't exist would probably have the same disadvantages as MSN equvivilant of muggles without any superhuman or occult powers.

 

[fenixzero]

Can normal people fight them?

A normal person isn't likely to know how to operate an assault weapon

Texas.

Video Games is a better example.

While I wouldn't know how to maintain any of the equipment that I would use to fight Mages, at least at first, I think I could use most of it.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

Can normal people fight them?

A normal person isn't likely to know how to operate an assault weapon

Texas.

Singapore or any other country with mandatory military service.

Switzerland issues assault rifles to every family, so they kinda cheat in that regard. Here in Texas, though, the average household has more firearms than some police departments...

 

[Grunt]

Can normal people fight them?

Taking apart an assault rifle without being told how is easy.....its the getting all the small parts together again that can take up to 2 hours.

And video games are a really really bad example.....

 

[fenixzero]

Can normal people fight them?

And video games are a really really bad example.....

True.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

Can normal people fight them?

And video games are a really really bad example.....

Yes, they don't prepare you for recoil. Or actually killing something that exists in real life.

 

[Grunt]

Can normal people fight them?

Aye, recoil is one heck of a throw off even when you're lying down and taking your time to aim.

Standing or even when on the run? :rofl:

Weight is also an issue, it takes some time to get used to it even if its only 3,5 or 4,5 kg.

 

[Crusader]

Can normal people fight them?

Singapore or any other country with mandatory military service.

I can drive a bloody tank if I need to, field-strip and use an AR-15. And it has been over a decade since I was in the singapore military. Normal people can and do know how to use assault weapons.

What kind of tank model did you drive?

? Aye, recoil is one heck of a throw off even when you're lying down and taking your time to aim.

Standing or even when on the run? rovatfl.gif

Weight is also an issue, it takes some time to get used to it even if its only 3,5 or 4,5 kg.

Imagine what a nightmare it would be for an unprepared novice to handle high-calibre weapons with their recoils. Not to mention that the ammunition would weigh you down if you carry around too many magazines

 

[Grunt]

Can normal people fight them?

In general you get 4 full ammo for your 4 chest pockets and 1 for your rifle. Filled they come in around 1/2 kg each. That's about 120 bullets in reserve if I remember correctly. The combat-jackets aren't so bad actually, given that you can adjust the new ones to lower or heighten the ammu pack positions.

But what's really shocking is the sheer violence of the recoil....we had one recruit that had his chin a bit too close to the rifle when aiming....

 

[Crusader]

Can normal people fight them?

Poor guy.

 

[biigoh]

Can normal people fight them?

Singapore or any other country with mandatory military service.

I can drive a bloody tank if I need to, field-strip and use an AR-15. And it has been over a decade since I was in the singapore military. Normal people can and do know how to use assault weapons.

What kind of tank model did you drive?

Given that I was a mechanic who fixed stuff and thus had to drive them around the base from where they were parked to where they were fixed... ^_^

The AMX-13SM1 (light tank), AMX-10P (armoured infantry vehicle), M113A2 (armor personnel carrier), the M60 (bridge launcher), M728 (combat engineer vehicle).

And video games are a really really bad example.....

Yes, they don't prepare you for recoil. Or actually killing something that exists in real life.

The recoil can be bad if you're not properly braced. It's possible to break body parts. I didn't see anyone get into an accident, but training involved someone standing behind before we could even pull the trigger to make sure no accidents happen.

But what's really shocking is the sheer violence of the recoil....we had one recruit that had his chin a bit too close to the rifle when aiming....

This.

Video games also don't prepare you for how fast or hot the bullet casing can go after you fire your weapon.

 

[Delusionist]

Can normal people fight them?

Huh, off topic before two full pages. I see we still have our usual attention span.

 

[Gosu]

Can normal people fight them?

I'm honestly not certain that there is any difference between mages and muggles in Negima beyond training and inclination. I'm of the opinion that magic is simply a skill that some people are more talented at than others, just like any other skill in the world. Have we seen anyone who took time to try to learn magic actually fail at it entirely because they lacked a spark of magic in them?

When Yue and Nodoka started learning (Ch64 p10) there was no mention of being capable or not, just of needing months of trying.

Rakan's chart puts the average mage inhabitant at two Chisame-points. A tank is 200 BTW.

So it seems to me that there is no such thing as a muggle in Negima, only those who for some reason can't do certain things, like spellcasting. Of course that doesn't mean that they can't do anything else instead (like Takahata). Anyone else can probably always learn at least basic magic, even if it doesn't make you a combat monster.

Presumably there can be people who can't use either magic or ki at all, but from the looks of it, those are very rare.

 

[Crusader]

Can normal people fight them?

Huh, off topic before two full pages. I see we still have our usual attention span.

It could've been worse.

 

[Ryoiichi Matsumoto]

Can normal people fight them?

Huh, off topic before two full pages. I see we still have our usual attention span.

It could've been worse.

Honestly? It lasted longer than I thought it would.

 

[Crusader]

Can normal people fight them?

Honestly? It lasted longer than I thought it would.

Is that a bad thing?

Do you think Atton Rand and HK-47's counter-Jedi tactics could work as easily on magic-users and ki-users like they do for Jedi.

Here's some examples.

á á "Statement: Overwhelming odds is also a good tactic, master. There are few Jedi that can long hold their ground against a hundred attackers all firing at once... or being turned on by their own troops."
á á ?HK-47

"People say killing Jedi is hard. It's not, you just have to be smart about it. No blasters, no getting close to them, no attacking them directly when you can gun down their allies instead."
á? ?Atton Rand

á á "When fighting a Jedi, you wound the Padawan first, then let the rest take care of itself. Not only will the master move to protect the student, but the Force bond between the two will mess up the master's head better than any stab wound."
á á ?Atton Rand

 

[Patrick_Gleason]

Can normal people fight them?

"People say killing Jedi is hard. It's not, you just have to be smart about it. No blasters, no getting close to them, no attacking them directly when you can gun down their allies instead."
áá »Atton Rand

á á "When fighting a Jedi, you wound the Padawan first, then let the rest take care of itself. Not only will the master move to protect the student, but the Force bond between the two will mess up the master's head better than any stab wound."
á á »Atton Rand

True when you're talking about the average Knight/Master with a Padawan. But don't try this on a pissed off Mace Windu or Luke Skywalker.

The same thing applies for Mages. Muggles could, with great effort, take down a medium-tier mage like Takane D. Goodman. Now, if Eva decides that she wants to take over the world, and there are no mages willing to stop her? Better start bowing.

 

[Crusader]

Can normal people fight them?

True when you're talking about the average Knight/Master with a Padawan. But don't try this on a pissed off Mace Windu or Luke Skywalker.

The same thing applies for Mages. Muggles could, with great effort, take down a medium-tier mage like Takane D. Goodman. Now, if Eva decides that she wants to take over the world, and there are no mages willing to stop her? Better start bowing.

The tactics do get results. And Skywalkers have a tendency to border on the dark side, and Vapaad did lead to many of Windu's closest to fall to the dark side like Depa Billaba and Sora Bulq who also were powerful Jedi Masters in their own right.

That or resorting to the heavy stuff like a nuclear bombardment with MIRV loadouts.

Starting an underground resistance movement instead of bowing is probably what some would do as well.

 

[Lord Raine]

Can normal people fight them?

I'd forgotten he did that. So he is a magic user, then. But still, I think the point stands. He himself may not count as mundane, but he only ever uses ki in his fights, so he's still a good benchmark for the upper limits of what ki can do. (At least until a ki purist more badass than him comes along.)

Regardless, he's a mage. This is normal humans, versus the Negima verse mages. Not Negima Ki weilders versus Negima Magic users.

Again, your definition of normal is incredibly fucked up, and makes no sense whatsoever. And it's a double-standard. And it's not in-line with what the OP said, which was, I believe, normal people versus magic users. Nobody ever said they couldn't be normal people from the Negimaverse, nor did anyone ever quantify exactly what 'normal' means.

I believe my point stands. If nuclear weapons, tanks, and jet fighters count, so does ki. They are all abnormal skills, and are open to anyone to learn.

So are we discounting people who have the potenial to cast magic, or just the ones who know how to?

Finally, someone is thinking reasonably. I said I would discount Rakan on the count that he knows some magic, so I believe we're going with the idea that it's anyone who knows how to use magic counts as a mage.

However, unlike what other people are trying to insist, that does not mean Rakan suddenly doesn't count as an example of what ki can do. Rakan would not be on the Muggle side of the war, but he is still a good benchmark for what the Muggles could potentially accomplish.

And for those of you complaining that Rakan might be using magic to fight with, I'd like to remind you that even if you can use magic, it must be taught to you. Rakan grew up as a slave, then as a gladiator, then as a mercenary. Nobody ever taught him shit. That means he can't be using magic by default. He may still count as a mage, as it's clear he knows some spells and can use them when he feels like it, but that's not his main weapon, it's not what he grew up fighting with, and it's not what makes him so obscenely badass.

Magic is, at it's heart, academia. Rakan's life could be described as a combination of Spartacus and Guts. See the problem?

Also, whose examples don't count? I can't tell who you were quoting, unless it was all the people who disagreed with you, LR.

It was meant to encompass a bunch of things multiple people were saying, and wasn't aimed at any one specific person.

 

[the DragonBard]

Can normal people fight them?

I'd forgotten he did that. So he is a magic user, then. But still, I think the point stands. He himself may not count as mundane, but he only ever uses ki in his fights, so he's still a good benchmark for the upper limits of what ki can do. (At least until a ki purist more badass than him comes along.)

Regardless, he's a mage. This is normal humans, versus the Negima verse mages. Not Negima Ki weilders versus Negima Magic users.

Again, your definition of normal is incredibly fucked up, and makes no sense whatsoever. And it's a double-standard. And it's not in-line with what the OP said, which was, I believe, normal people versus magic users. Nobody ever said they couldn't be normal people from the Negimaverse, nor did anyone ever quantify exactly what 'normal' means.

I believe my point stands. If nuclear weapons, tanks, and jet fighters count, so does ki. They are all abnormal skills, and are open to anyone to learn.

Sorry LR, but Crusader clarified his question. He meant 'all' superhumans, not just mages when writing it.

He should have done it: how would people in the real world fight against the superhuman characters in Negima?

As for definition of 'normal?' Personally, I define it (as far as manga and such is concerned) as anything a person in the real world could do. Which, I regret to say, I doubt includes the skills of Mana, Kaede, and Ku Fei.

 

[Lord Raine]

Can normal people fight them?

Sorry LR, but Crusader clarified his question. He meant 'all' superhumans, not just mages when writing it.

Then the question is complete bullshit, and the fight a total setup. Your average mage's standard attack has the firepower of the main cannon of a tank. And they can fly. And they're too small to be picked up by radar as anything worthy of note.

Just the faculty of Mahora could take over a medium-sized country. Someone like Eva or Rakan could probably take over a significant portion of Earth, if they didn't flat-out conquer the whole thing.