Akamatsuverse [Negima] Can normal people fight them?

[Crusader]

Can normal people fight them?

but would probably suffer heavy casualties facing the mid-level ones unless they have some good tactics and support like artillery and air support.

I think that a well positioned sniper, with a suicide team to distract the mage's attetion, could work. But that's just ONE shot. Miss it, and she will be ready next time.

That or you need more postioned snipers, like a pair working together. If the first one misses then pray to whatever you hold dear and holy that the second one doesn't.

Are there any effective wards against flashbang grenades BTW?

And would UCAVs be a useful military weapon?

 

[Patrick_Gleason]

Can normal people fight them?

If there's one thing I know about magic, is that that are wards for EVERYTHING. But of course, maintaining dozens of magical barriers is specially taxing for a mage, that's why they study their enemies to make the right wards.

So yeah, I'd say there are. And Shadow Magic, like Takane's and Kagetarou's would work well too.

 

[Shiakou]

Can normal people fight them?

Ki is basically life force. Therefore, by being alive, any real world human actively uses ki.

Nice. Now show me a human that can use said life force to fire a destructive beam from his body. You know, perfectly well, that that's the "ki" we're talking about here.

Same kind of "ki", different levels . If you take the various martial arts legends as truth (and it's only fair since we're taking a mangaverse setting as truth), then "ki" IRL can do that. . . it's just that modern ki practitioners have either not figured out how to replicate it or are hiding the information.

The concept of ki is important to many forms of real-world martial arts.

That doesn't answer my question. And the concept of "magic" is important to many religions like Wicca and Vodun. That doesn't make it any more real.

Except that those religions regard it as real. Assuming IRL suddenly gets invaded by flying, talking, sentient WMDs, what's "real" and what's "not real" gets a lot more questionable. Basically, why are you assuming that "normal people IRL" don't have magic, ki, or any kind of supernatural power?

The police would lose their authority because the people who gave them that authority in the first place are no longer in charge. This means that their authority is no longer legitimate

Again, has it ever been said that the mages would take the authority from police? They would just be under a new administration, so to speak. It's pretty normal to leave the previous institutions unharmed when you conquer a country, by the way, to make assimilation easier. Romans made it all the time, Hitler made it in France...

Because the police are also muggles. Let's assume that Muggles = no supernatural power whatsoever. And, since this is, as you say, a Muggle x Mages kind of thing, (Logic Fail that it is) ALL Muggles are against mages regardless of association, race, culture, or political leaning. Hence, all muggle policemen would either fight Eva's regime directly or fight using subversive methods. (Why would they do that? Same reason Muggles can't just acquire magic/magitech: It's Muggles x Mages and that's that.)

Note that in my original post, I struck out anything not achievable with technology. You are putting words in my mouth, never once did I imply that they were magical.

No, I'm not. I'm just pointing that "Americans" aren't nowhere as terrible as Eva can be, nor as powerful, and they're thousands of people. Eva is a single person. Send an army to destroy a city, with missiles, airplanes, tanks, guns and all that is one thing. Destroy the same city in a ten year old body with just a few words is completely different

Most people used to believe that there were deity/ies capable of that (and a majority still do). That didn't stop them from rebelling. Fear just leads to hatred after all. And once you hate something enough, you stop caring about such things as survival.

Everyone has the potential to use ki. It's just life energy. In fact, if they aren't using ki, it's because they are no longer alive. It's just that due to the differing mechanics in Negima, people can have overt displays of ki usage.

And everyone has the potential to use magic. But I'll say this again: Muggles CAN'T use any of those. Because it's MUGGLES x MAGES. And if they starting using this kind of Mysterious Energies, they won't count as fucking muggles anymore. Gods, what's so hard to understand about it?

Because it's a You Fail Logic Forever moment? Anytime a society is attacked by another society the ones lower on the tech level will always steal ideas and weapons from their oppressors. They defeat/fight them by becoming them. That's why you had Afghans using AK-47s against Russians. That doesn't make them any less Afghan. The British invented tanks IIRC, the Nazis used tanks against the British. Ancient Spaniards invented the gladius, the Romans hurriedly copied, modified, mass-produced, and standardized it. Americans develop an A-bomb, every other big nation copied it within decades; some within just a few years. Let's be realistic here; the moment mages attack us muggles, every government surviving the initial chaos would be hell-bent on acquiring, reverse-engineering, and using magic and magitech.

Sorry (really! ) for the necro guys, but after all the updates recently, it just seemed a waste not to restart this discussion.

 

[raedric]

Can normal people fight them?

That logic failed because it put ethnicities versus mage. There is a big difference than me and blacky mcblackguy...but not as big a difference as me and a mage. A mage is somebody who uses magic. AKA: If you use magic, or learn to do so...you became a mage. Now it becomes a fight of mage vs mage, and the argument loses coherency. No longer are we talking normies vs mages...and thus we are off topic and the point can't be made.

If I hit a nail with a hammer, I'm hammering. If the nail turns into a hammer and hits back, we're talking about something completely different.

 

[Elvarein]

Can normal people fight them?

Let me start on topic. I will not argue about who will win as it can go either way very easily and will be at the end mere conjecture. However, as the question is if real life people who have no such ability to tap into mystical sources are able to fight people with access to them from the start.

The answer is, yes definitely.

Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
~ Modern Military saying

What determines who wins is who can destroy the other's ability & will to continue fighting.

Destruction is caused by who can project sufficient force to overwhelm the other forces in a given area at a given time. This can come through conventional/unconventional battles to destroy the other groups resources (food, manpower, equipment, etc). Or by destroying/impeding their mechanism to field their resources (disruption of supply lines, destruction of base of support ie nuke mars anyone?, destruction of transport hubs such as the portals).

Are real life people able to destroy the other groups resources? Of course. In the extreme case, I would identify and nuke all the portal sites and continuously harass the mages via coordination/sucide strikes/stealth strikes/poisoning of food or water sources. RL armies are able to train conscripts in a very short amount of time (I'm a Armour Reconnaissance Specialist from Singapore during my national service. I can say that driving the tank is easy. The difficult part is aiming and hitting on the move ;p) And we out number mages easily. The death of one mage is an irreversible loss while i can replace a normal soldier in a short while.

Of course this goes both ways. As a mage I would assassinate their leaders, and wreck general havoc fighting an asymmetric war. Concealment magic blar blar blar.

And as for walking WMD's like Rankan (if he counts as a mage?) or Evangeline? Well attack a target they must protect and sacrifice everything there and nuke it into oblivion. That might off Rankan. Not so sure about Evangelione though. Only way is to exhaust and eliminate i guess.

 

[EspyLacopa]

Can normal people fight them?

I'm honestly not certain that there is any difference between mages and muggles in Negima beyond training and inclination. I'm of the opinion that magic is simply a skill that some people are more talented at than others, just like any other skill in the world. Have we seen anyone who took time to try to learn magic actually fail at it entirely because they lacked a spark of magic in them?

When Yue and Nodoka started learning (Ch64 p10) there was no mention of being capable or not, just of needing months of trying.

Rakan's chart puts the average mage inhabitant at two Chisame-points. A tank is 200 BTW.

So it seems to me that there is no such thing as a muggle in Negima, only those who for some reason can't do certain things, like spellcasting. Of course that doesn't mean that they can't do anything else instead (like Takahata). Anyone else can probably always learn at least basic magic, even if it doesn't make you a combat monster.

Presumably there can be people who can't use either magic or ki at all, but from the looks of it, those are very rare.

Yea, Rakan's chart puts a Tank at 200 Chisame's.

And then it puts Members of the Homeland Magic Knights at 300 Chisame's.

That Aegis Battleship? 1500. So That thing, which is manned by a few hundred trained military personal. . .taken down by 6 Mages.

It's kinda important to remember: The mages in Negima DO have a standing army! And their standard vehicles fly simply because it's just that easy for them to do.

*Mundus Magicus has a full population of just over 1 billion* Earth's population is only nearing 7 billion. They are just as smart and resourceful as us, only they get the bonus weapon that is Magic. Look at what the Megalomesembria Counsel has been willing to do.

Only way we norms could win is if we managed to snatch that fancy Master Key and wipe them from existance. Like what Fate is doing. And that still wouldn't get rid of all of them, just the ones that came from Mundus Magicus.

By the by, achievable with Technology? Look at the crazy stuff that the tech clubs apparently created in Negima. Much of which is quite possibly because they had a time traveler in their midst.

 

[Master of Squirrel-Fu]

Can normal people fight them?

Rakan made a power level chart once.

8000- Kyoumen Sukuna no Kami




3000- Fate Avaruncus
2800- Demon god soldier (Wartime)

2000- Takamichi (may not be true power)

1500- Aegis Battle ship

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
700- Kagetaro
650- Dragon species (non-magical)
500- Negi [upon meetingá Rakan]
300- Mahora magical teacher (avarage) Memebers of the homelande magical knights (avarage) High-ranking Mages
200- Tank
100- Magical school Graduates
3~50- Old world masters (Non-Ki usiers)
2- Mage (average magic world inhabitant)
1- Chisame
.5- Cat

He than said that under the right conditions Negi (at 500) could beat an Aegis Battleship (1500). so if we go with that than something can beat something with about 3x the power with enough luck so the average human can beat the average mage with a bit of effort and a Tank can beat even someone at Negi's level with enough luck. Considering this is Japan and a Manga you can add mechs and Battle armor wich could be anywhere. So I'd say that we could be fairly even when mook army's clash. And if the Martial artist are on our side than they can take on the big mages. The end result is up in the air and would be decided by a war of attrition IMHO.

EDITammit didn't read the last one. well anyway theres the chart for those that didn't click the link.

 

[EspyLacopa]

Can normal people fight them?

Rakan made a power level chart once.

8000- Kyoumen Sukuna no Kami




3000- Fate Avaruncus
2800- Demon god soldier (Wartime)

2000- Takamichi (may not be true power)

1500- Aegis Battle ship

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
700- Kagetaro
650- Dragon species (non-magical)
500- Negi [upon meetingá Rakan]
300- Mahora magical teacher (avarage) Memebers of the homelande magical knights (avarage) High-ranking Mages
200- Tank
100- Magical school Graduates
3~50- Old world masters (Non-Ki usiers)
2- Mage (average magic world inhabitant)
1- Chisame
.5- Cat

He than said that under the right conditions Negi (at 500) could beat an Aegis Battleship (1500). so if we go with that than something can beat something with about 3x the power with enough luck so the average human can beat the average mage with a bit of effort and a Tank can beat even someone at Negi's level with enough luck. Considering this is Japan and a Manga you can add mechs and Battle armor wich could be anywhere. So I'd say that we could be fairly even when mook army's clash. And if the Martial artist are on our side than they can take on the big mages. The end result is up in the air and would be decided by a war of attrition IMHO.

EDITammit didn't read the last one. well anyway theres the chart for those that didn't click the link.

You also need to take into account that that bit about conditions changing your chances can go *either way*

So if under the right conditions a Tank can beat Negi(at 500). . .then the inverse is true that a Magic School Graduate could beat a Tank.

The issue is that if two sides are equally 'mook'-y(or more simply, same amount of training), then the side with the better equipment(in this case, Magic) will win in far more situations. This is caused because Magic is so very versatile. Kinda like duct tape in a way.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Can normal people fight them?

Yea, Rakan's chart puts a Tank at 200 Chisame's.

And then it puts Members of the Homeland Magic Knights at 300 Chisame's.

That Aegis Battleship?? 1500.? So That thing, which is manned by a few hundred trained military personal. . .taken down by 6 Mages.

It's kinda important to remember:? The mages in Negima DO have a standing army!? And their standard vehicles fly simply because it's just that easy for them to do.

*Mundus Magicus has a full population of just over 1 billion*? Earth's population is only nearing 7 billion.? They are just as smart and resourceful as us, only they get the bonus weapon that is Magic.? Look at what the Megalomesembria Counsel has been willing to do.

One nit, it is the Aegis system, mounted on missile Destroyers or Cruisers.

Now a couple other questions. Out of that 1 Billion how many are at the "Home Land Magical Knights" level, and how long does it take to reach that power/skill level?

The true weakness of industrial vs biological weapon systems is that the former can throw on extra shifts or factories to increase production. Nine women can not get together and produce a single baby in one month starting from scratch. Depending on the regimen you can turn out a trained infantry man in a few months, or even a few weeks if things are compressed into more "This is how you shoot" and enough discipline to hold in combat.

True it might be an extreme case, but in a magical/mundane total war scenario can the Mages stand off superior numbers of technological armed mundanes long enough to flatten them without casualities? I'm talking the more extreme General Zhukov style tactics where one side is willing to accept truely horrendous casualities because they figure they can throw more bodies into the fight and don't need as long to train them.

If you've seen "We were Soldiers" consider the Mages to be the US troops, while the Mundanes where the NVA Division they landed on.

 

[Prince Charon]

Can normal people fight them?

Rakan made a power level chart once.

8000- Kyoumen Sukuna no Kami




3000- Fate Avaruncus
2800- Demon god soldier (Wartime)

2000- Takamichi (may not be true power)

1500- Aegis Battle ship

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
700- Kagetaro
650- Dragon species (non-magical)
500- Negi [upon meetingá Rakan]
300- Mahora magical teacher (avarage) Memebers of the homelande magical knights (avarage) High-ranking Mages
200- Tank
100- Magical school Graduates
3~50- Old world masters (Non-Ki usiers)
2- Mage (average magic world inhabitant)
1- Chisame
.5- Cat

If a cat is worth half a Chisame, either Rakan knows some badass cats, he thinks Chisame is incredibly pathetic (far weaker than a normal human), or his chart isn't exactly linear.

 

[EspyLacopa]

Can normal people fight them?

Yea, Rakan's chart puts a Tank at 200 Chisame's.

And then it puts Members of the Homeland Magic Knights at 300 Chisame's.

That Aegis Battleship?á 1500.á So That thing, which is manned by a few hundred trained military personal. . .taken down by 6 Mages.

It's kinda important to remember:á The mages in Negima DO have a standing army!á And their standard vehicles fly simply because it's just that easy for them to do.

*Mundus Magicus has a full population of just over 1 billion*á Earth's population is only nearing 7 billion.á They are just as smart and resourceful as us, only they get the bonus weapon that is Magic.á Look at what the Megalomesembria Counsel has been willing to do.

One nit, it is the Aegis system, mounted on missile Destroyers or Cruisers.

Now a couple other questions. Out of that 1 Billion how many are at the "Home Land Magical Knights" level, and how long does it take to reach that power/skill level?

The true weakness of industrial vs biological weapon systems is that the former can throw on extra shifts or factories to increase production. Nine women can not get together and produce a single baby in one month starting from scratch. Depending on the regimen you can turn out a trained infantry man in a few months, or even a few weeks if things are compressed into more "This is how you shoot" and enough discipline to hold in combat.

True it might be an extreme case, but in a magical/mundane total war scenario can the Mages stand off superior numbers of technological armed mundanes long enough to flatten them without casualities? I'm talking the more extreme General Zhukov style tactics where one side is willing to accept truely horrendous casualities because they figure they can throw more bodies into the fight and don't need as long to train them.

If you've seen "We were Soldiers" consider the Mages to be the US troops, while the Mundanes where the NVA Division they landed on.

Eh, I said Aegis Battleship because that's what Rakan's chart stated.

And out of the 7 billion that we have, how many battleships do we have? Toss in the number of people needed to use one fully. (looked at Wikipedia. USA has 27 Ticonderoga ships, which have that Aegis system. Each one has 400 personnel. Wonder how many total man-hours that would be to train all 400 of those.)

Also, while yes it's typically faster to outright *make* something like a ship versus a soldier, consider that the Mages in Negima? Cut off a limb or two, and in a few days they'll be back good as new with very few resources required to do so as well.

6 Mages flying around to take down cruisers would need minimal support structure in order to continually do it. Realistically, they'd need a small barracks. For a roving patrol, at least a couple tents and a backpack for each with the magical equivalent of MREs.

That 1 ship however requires substantial supports in order to:

Craft ammunition
Transport food for 100+ people
Repair the ship when damaged

The overhead for a strike team of 6 skilled mages would be much lower than it would be for a single cruiser. Especially when you consider a War-like atmosphere.

And it's important to note that while it does take time to give birth and train a mage, it also takes time to build a tank, or ship, or plane. To be fair, not as much time, but it IS there. AND You have to factor in the time to properly train *all* of the people that will end up manning the vehicle. Tanks frequently have 2 people in them. One to drive, one to shoot. Ships? Yea, that's a lot more people.

And none of this takes into account the fact that the mages? They have ships and such too. Not to mention trained demons and the more powerful magical beasts. And then factor in that the longer a Mage lives, the more powerful s/he becomes, whereas the longer a ship or other vehicle is in service, the weaker it gets.

 

[ttestagr]

Can normal people fight them?

And the real world has absolutely no answer to top tier talents like Jack Rakan, Evangeline, Nagi, Fate, or anybody close to that tier. Rakan states that something like 80 guys could deal with Negi's lightning form after he showed how to do so on tv. That is something like 80 guys that are an out of context problem for everything in the real world. There is just no answer to dealing with a person that can intercept lightning by predicting the static charge beforehand. Much less 80 of them.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Can normal people fight them?

Add in 56 Burke Class DDGs (Aegis, maybe 80% of the VLS load on the Flight IIa boats), and the fact Navy ships seldom operate alone. How many high class mages does the MW have? If that roving patrol (maybe a couple dozen if you want a set always on guard and/or take on something the size of a CVBG in a full scale strike) is like a fighter squadron then things in the Mundane world then BOICA sums up their situation. OTOH if that much concentrated magical firepower is the local equivalent (and rarity/expense) of a USN Carrier Battle Group, then they'd be more careful about throwing it around. In addition I'm assuming an even, or near even, fight has the victor not escaping unscathed. For example the IJN was undefeated for about the first six months of WWII. But at Midway they had an undamaged carrier sitting in port, and another being fixed, that had no aircraft available should they be ready to sail. Their six months of successes had still attritioned their naval aviation to the point that their were two Carrier Air Groups in the hole.

Basically the what has been defined, the how much hasn't been set. If you can turn out enough a mountain of mediocre gear will crush a relative handful of really good weapons. I'm not calling it a walkover, just saying if the force sizes (a smaller MW population and walking WMDs suggest this) could devolve the situation into a bloody set of attrition battles. At that point it turns into a question of political will.

I'd say the MW's biggest advantage is they know about the Mundane world (and if their War College equivalents are anything like RW they have plans and studies for a Magical/Mundane conflict), while their Mundane equivalents will mostly, if not fully be going at this cold.

 

[zeebee1]

Can normal people fight them?

We know that Rakan wasn't completely honest with that chart. And really, seven and a half tanks are equal to a magical floating battleship? I really doubt he was being all that precise when he made that thing up.

 

[Patrick_Gleason]

Can normal people fight them?

Now, seriously people. We're talking about people that could summon an army of petrifying demons. That can throw around a spell that sublimates everything it touches. That can summon an anti-army thunderstorm. About a civilization that has a hundred kilometer Dragon Deity as its guardian. About an organization that can summon Lovecraftian horrors without a second thought.

There's nothing to discuss here. Ala Alba alone could out most, if not all, of the U.S. Especially after the Alexandria (AKA Kitty Star).

 

[Master of Squirrel-Fu]

Can normal people fight them?

Your forgetting that magic isn't the only power in the Negimaverse. Even real world muggles have nukes. Negima verse muggle have much more: The mahora students have been known to create Androids, Robot Dinosaurs, AT-ATs and even a capin' Ersatz Terminater. The Muggles there have much better tech than us. and if this is between Mages and non-mages than we have Martial artist on our side since for the most-part they all have Charles atlas super powers. And for the graduate being able to kill tanks, I read somewhere on Cracked about a Blind, deaf, and wounded solder who took out over a dozen by himself. It's all about opprotunity, luck and shier determination.

 

[Shiakou]

Can normal people fight them?

That logic failed because it put ethnicities versus mage. There is a big difference than me and blacky mcblackguy...but not as big a difference as me and a mage. A mage is somebody who uses magic. AKA: If you use magic, or learn to do so...you became a mage. Now it becomes a fight of mage vs mage, and the argument loses coherency. No longer are we talking normies vs mages...and thus we are off topic and the point can't be made.

If I hit a nail with a hammer, I'm hammering. If the nail turns into a hammer and hits back, we're talking about something completely different.

By Negimaverse rules, magic is cultural. By Negimaverse rules, everyone can eventually become either a mage or reach an alternate power which puts them on the same average level (barring absolute monsters like Rakan and Eva).

This isn't a hammer-hits-nail scenario. Realistically speaking this isn't even a mages vs muggles scenario; that's not what the OP asked after all. This is a Negimaverse mages versus US (wherein "us" represents the entire world) scenario. And there's a couple of implications you have to realize about the setting.

1. Strong Atheists and all forms of philosophy which insist purely on material/empirical evidence as the only judgement for the existence of something is a minority. For the vast majority of Earth's current population, such things as God/s, forms of fae, and souls exist. To them (and to me), a soul is just as real as a tank or an airplane. Why is this important? Because it has been implied, if not outright stated, that souls/will = potential to use magic.

2. Universal rules are universal. They're either true for everything within a given universe or they're false for everything in a given universe. Such rules as the Laws of Thermodynamics and the existence of Causality are absolute; they are either always true or they don't exist. What happens when you put Negima-magic in our real world?

a. The zeroth law of thermodynamic becomes a casualty. Energy and temperature becomes unequatable; a mage can make fire, ice, or lightning without the prerequisite equivalent exchange neccessary (that's why it's magic, btw.)

b. The first law of thermodynamics becomes a casualty. Energy/matter is discovered to be both creatable and destructible. You can erase souls or create them. You can create heat and just as easily extinguish it without dissipating or taking energy from the surroundings.

c. The second law of thermodynamics becomes a casualty. These guys came from another universe/dimension. They can create pocket dimensions and take/give matter/energy whenever they want. They can travel through time and create copies of themselves. The sum total of matter/energy in the universe ceases to be constant.

d. The third law of thermodynamics becomes a casualty. Absolute zero becomes reachable. It becomes possible to suspend, either partially or entirely, the entropy of an object or individual. Depending on your viewpoint, this is the basis for immortal life, unaging life, vampiric regeneration and a lot of other stuff.

e. Causality becomes a casualty. Millenia of philosophical and scientific development spontaneously combust as you realize that because of time-travel and the code, an object in motion can still remain in motion even when the cause/mover of said object has been erased from history. (Example: everyone in Ala Alba still remember the alternate future where Chao won despite it never happening.)

What does this all mean? Well, remember what I said about universal rules being universal? Thing is, if Universal Rules. . aren't universal anymore, then what's to stop Muggle A from learning magic?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

*Shiakou resurrects massacred catgirls

Cause I can.

 

[Tom_Badgerlock]

Can normal people fight them?

Until that's clearly stated in the manga, there was no retcon. Officially, they're just learning to use that energy better, instead of wasting it on the simplest of the spells. So, Magic isn't a "gift", anymore than Ki is.

Personal opinion.

I myself believe that Negi and Konoka have a much better magical Core than normal (monstruous). It doesn't mean that people can't train theirs up given enough time (in fact, Eva was supposed to be weak for centuries while training herself up, which might explain her comment about it being 'not easy').

Also, it doesn't mean Negi's magical power can't improve- it means he begins with more, and probably improves faster.

 

[EspyLacopa]

Can normal people fight them?

What does this all mean? Well, remember what I said about universal rules being universal? Thing is, if Universal Rules. . aren't universal anymore, then what's to stop Muggle A from learning magic?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

*Shiakou resurrects massacred catgirls

Cause I can.

Universal rules?

Point is moot. Don't know what World War 4 would be fought with, but World War 5 is going to be fought with rocks and clubs.

As a side note though: If anyone and everyone can learn magic if they actually wanted to, why would there have been any true need to keep it secret? My own opinion is that it's due to clans of mages who wanted to keep it all to themselves. And then as time went on, the clans got so large and interconnected that it became essentially one giant clan which calls itself Mages.

 

[Tom_Badgerlock]

Can normal people fight them?

What does this all mean? Well, remember what I said about universal rules being universal? Thing is, if Universal Rules. .á aren't universal anymore, then what's to stop Muggle A from learning magic?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

*Shiakou resurrects massacred catgirls

Cause I can.

Universal rules?

Point is moot. Don't know what World War 4 would be fought with, but World War 5 is going to be fought with rocks and clubs.

As a side note though: If anyone and everyone can learn magic if they actually wanted to, why would there have been any true need to keep it secret? My own opinion is that it's due to clans of mages who wanted to keep it all to themselves. And then as time went on, the clans got so large and interconnected that it became essentially one giant clan which calls itself Mages.

Pretty much why i don't think Mages hid themselves out of fear of non-wizards (maybe out of fear of 'nonwizards' getting to be stronger mages than them though).

 

[Patrick_Gleason]

Can normal people fight them?

Negima verse muggle have much more: The mahora students have been known to create Androids, Robot Dinosaurs, AT-ATs and even a capin' Ersatz Terminater.

Yup. But Magic is powering them. Normal technology can't reach those results. The students of Mahora Campus have magic gently nudging them towards giant robots and such, The World Tree may have an effect as well.

(in fact, Eva was supposed to be weak for centuries while training herself up, which might explain her comment about it being 'not easy').

Shw was training her vampire powers and getting rid of vampire weaknesses. Not her magic. She says that, "magical potential isn't something you can train". Either you have it or not.

The thing is, if the muggles learn magic... They won't be muggles anymore. It'll be Mages x Mages. And this is about Mages x Muggles. As in: People who won't be using magic in any way. And Ki, the way Setsuna, Kaede and Rakan use it count as magic.

 

[Tom_Badgerlock]

Can normal people fight them?

The thing is, if the muggles learn magic... They won't be muggles anymore. It'll be Mages x Mages. And this is about Mages x Muggles. As in: People who won't be using magic in any way. And Ki, the way Setsuna, Kaede and Rakan use it count as magic.

I completely agree on that. In this debate, it's all about RL people against Negimaverse (as in Negimaverse, everyone is a mage).

Shw was training her vampire powers and getting rid of vampire weaknesses. Not her magic. She says that, "magical potential isn't something you can train". Either you have it or not.

No she wasn't. She was saying you couldn't get it *easily*.

 

[EspyLacopa]

Can normal people fight them?

What does this all mean? Well, remember what I said about universal rules being universal? Thing is, if Universal Rules. .á aren't universal anymore, then what's to stop Muggle A from learning magic?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

*Shiakou resurrects massacred catgirls

Cause I can.

Universal rules?

Point is moot. Don't know what World War 4 would be fought with, but World War 5 is going to be fought with rocks and clubs.

As a side note though: If anyone and everyone can learn magic if they actually wanted to, why would there have been any true need to keep it secret? My own opinion is that it's due to clans of mages who wanted to keep it all to themselves. And then as time went on, the clans got so large and interconnected that it became essentially one giant clan which calls itself Mages.

Pretty much why i don't think Mages hid themselves out of fear of non-wizards (maybe out of fear of 'nonwizards' getting to be stronger mages than them though).

And thus, they originally hid because they didn't want those filthy commoners getting their mitts on the fancy magic. And in modern era they hide because of tradition. "We've always hid. . .why stop now?"

 

[Shiakou]

Can normal people fight them?

What does this all mean? Well, remember what I said about universal rules being universal? Thing is, if Universal Rules. .á aren't universal anymore, then what's to stop Muggle A from learning magic?

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

*Shiakou resurrects massacred catgirls

Cause I can.

Universal rules?

Point is moot. Don't know what World War 4 would be fought with, but World War 5 is going to be fought with rocks and clubs.

As a side note though: If anyone and everyone can learn magic if they actually wanted to, why would there have been any true need to keep it secret? My own opinion is that it's due to clans of mages who wanted to keep it all to themselves. And then as time went on, the clans got so large and interconnected that it became essentially one giant clan which calls itself Mages.

Pretty much why i don't think Mages hid themselves out of fear of non-wizards (maybe out of fear of 'nonwizards' getting to be stronger mages than them though).

And thus, they originally hid because they didn't want those filthy commoners getting their mitts on the fancy magic. And in modern era they hide because of tradition. "We've always hid. . .why stop now?"

Possibly, it's easier to keep the status quo. Breaking the Masquerade right now, even if it's beneficial in the long term, will still create a lot of chaos, destruction, and conflict in the short term. People are going to have their entire lives changed in the blink of an eye. Most people don't want that. They'd rather have something their comfortable with even if it means keeping up the worldwide conspiracy.

 

[zeebee1]

Can normal people fight them?

At least Hakase would get all the funding she'd ever want. Even if Chachamaru's emotions and power come from magic it doesn't change the fact that Hakase made a robot capable of independent action.