Harry Potter Shipping Shitstorm: JK Rowling Says Harry/Hermione Is How It Should Have Been
- Thread starter lord geryon
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Times that Rawling forced the story onto rails that weren't really supported by the canon events....
"Snape is secretly a good guy" is the first thought that came to my mind. His "redemption" boiled down to being "not murderer-evil, just adult-who-bullies-children-evil." The only reason a scumbag like him wasn't the Big Bad was because there was a terrorist running around murdering people.
Related to that, Dumbledore's Death Gambit is probably another example. Rawling needed to get him out of the way so he wouldn't swoop in and be like "I'm fucking Gandalf remember?" when the final battle started up. But rather than have him choke on a pretzel or whatever she had some kind of ridiculous gambit to save Draco and/or Snape's lives from their own shithead choices.
Related to the OP, actually, I'd say the friendship between Harry and Ron. That was the part that got out from under her, because she dropped it, and didn't put the effort into it.
Like... how can I put it, they didn't have DUDEBRO moments where they bumped fists. Ron just stopped bringing stuff to the table. If Hermione was Little Miss Exposition, then Ron was supposed to be the Power of Friendship, but that stopped happening. Like... during those Legilmancy lessons, he should have put his foot down and said, "no. Don't go to those anymore, they're fucking you up. I'll say that straight to Dumbledore if I have to, but this needs to stop." Compared to the first few books where Harry was like, "we need to go fight monsters", and Ron was like, "Aw fuck, I always get clocked by one of 'em, but lemmee get my coat"; Ron stopped being the "with-you-through-thick-or-thin-guy". In the first book he got himself and Harry dragged into a duel-at-midnight with Draco; on one hand it was a dumb move, but on the other hand, wasn't that literally the first time a peer stood up to a bully for Harry? That's some powerful juju, right there.
It was Ron that stole his dad's flying car to go bust Harry out of Abusive Home Life just based on his gut feeling that Harry needed help. There were a couple times that Harry really needed someone to pull stunts like that ("Listen Harry I maybe kinda...kept Lockhart's wand and I maybe kinda oblivated Umbridge back to primary school with it"), and Ron was totally the guy that was supposed to pull them.
So the Power Trio at the center of the series got unbalanced in the second half because she stopped treating one of them like a protagonist.
"Snape is secretly a good guy" is the first thought that came to my mind. His "redemption" boiled down to being "not murderer-evil, just adult-who-bullies-children-evil." The only reason a scumbag like him wasn't the Big Bad was because there was a terrorist running around murdering people.
Related to that, Dumbledore's Death Gambit is probably another example. Rawling needed to get him out of the way so he wouldn't swoop in and be like "I'm fucking Gandalf remember?" when the final battle started up. But rather than have him choke on a pretzel or whatever she had some kind of ridiculous gambit to save Draco and/or Snape's lives from their own shithead choices.
Related to the OP, actually, I'd say the friendship between Harry and Ron. That was the part that got out from under her, because she dropped it, and didn't put the effort into it.
Like... how can I put it, they didn't have DUDEBRO moments where they bumped fists. Ron just stopped bringing stuff to the table. If Hermione was Little Miss Exposition, then Ron was supposed to be the Power of Friendship, but that stopped happening. Like... during those Legilmancy lessons, he should have put his foot down and said, "no. Don't go to those anymore, they're fucking you up. I'll say that straight to Dumbledore if I have to, but this needs to stop." Compared to the first few books where Harry was like, "we need to go fight monsters", and Ron was like, "Aw fuck, I always get clocked by one of 'em, but lemmee get my coat"; Ron stopped being the "with-you-through-thick-or-thin-guy". In the first book he got himself and Harry dragged into a duel-at-midnight with Draco; on one hand it was a dumb move, but on the other hand, wasn't that literally the first time a peer stood up to a bully for Harry? That's some powerful juju, right there.
It was Ron that stole his dad's flying car to go bust Harry out of Abusive Home Life just based on his gut feeling that Harry needed help. There were a couple times that Harry really needed someone to pull stunts like that ("Listen Harry I maybe kinda...kept Lockhart's wand and I maybe kinda oblivated Umbridge back to primary school with it"), and Ron was totally the guy that was supposed to pull them.
So the Power Trio at the center of the series got unbalanced in the second half because she stopped treating one of them like a protagonist.
Especially the part about Ron, it's like after their fight in GoF, Rowling decided to change their friendship.
I'll admit, I never quite pictured it that way, but yeah, that is pretty true for the first three books, then GoF came around and Ron kinda turned into a dick for a while and after that kinda became just...there. I mean, he didn't step up like he used to.
Hell, if anything, the whole jealousy thing in GoF should have been a reason to strengthen his character, a chance for him to really step up and say, "Man, that crap will NEVER happen again" and could serve as a point for Ron to start maturing, something he needed kinda to catch up with the more mature Hermione and constantly burdened Harry. And I'm not talking overnight, but he has five brothers, four of whom he could have gone to or written for advice, stuff that could have really helped since two of them are geniuses in their own right and the other two are probably pretty smart to be in their fields of work, even bit by bit he could have built up to a serious help for his bud, but nothing...
Hell, if anything, the whole jealousy thing in GoF should have been a reason to strengthen his character, a chance for him to really step up and say, "Man, that crap will NEVER happen again" and could serve as a point for Ron to start maturing, something he needed kinda to catch up with the more mature Hermione and constantly burdened Harry. And I'm not talking overnight, but he has five brothers, four of whom he could have gone to or written for advice, stuff that could have really helped since two of them are geniuses in their own right and the other two are probably pretty smart to be in their fields of work, even bit by bit he could have built up to a serious help for his bud, but nothing...
One moment that always stuck out in my mind is how Harry/Cho Chang ended in Order of the Phoenix. The conversation they had that led to them breaking up was so out of left field, it felt forced upon. I mean, if Cho was really missing Cedric Diggory like that, either that would have been something that becomes a central issue of their budding relationship that would eventually be worked out, or she would have never gotten with Harry in the first place. It wouldn't be all smiles and roses until Cho just blurts out "I miss Cedric!" and Harry going "You bitch! We're through!" because that's pretty much how I remember it ending. I'm like, "Dude, that's your dream girl you been like fapping to for over four years! You ain't even gonna try to keep her?" I might be misremembering things, as it's been so long, but I don't recall there being much of anything to foreshadow that kick in the nuts.
That isn't how the Cho thing worked at all...
Er, that whole thing actually made sense because Harry totally scheduled to meet Hermione before they went out on the date and dropped the news on Cho indelicately. That is just bad form to do that.
It was less missing Cedric and more of Harry screwing up royally after being cockblocked by Hermione's plans. Cedric's death was still a major factor but not in the way that you are misremembering.
The only real reaches that she pulled was the Lupin/Tonks romance that came out of left field (honestly, Harry's idea of Sirius and Tonks was a better idea), the Hallows, and the whole Snape thing.
Er, that whole thing actually made sense because Harry totally scheduled to meet Hermione before they went out on the date and dropped the news on Cho indelicately. That is just bad form to do that.
It was less missing Cedric and more of Harry screwing up royally after being cockblocked by Hermione's plans. Cedric's death was still a major factor but not in the way that you are misremembering.
The only real reaches that she pulled was the Lupin/Tonks romance that came out of left field (honestly, Harry's idea of Sirius and Tonks was a better idea), the Hallows, and the whole Snape thing.
The book series is kind of fragmented anyway. The first three go together, then things change tone in 4&5, while 6&7 are like a totally different series.
Although if I was looking for a unifying theme in the books the two that come to mind are "half-bloods will always be more powerful and outshine pure bloods" and "wizards and witches from the previous generation can't grow up and deal with their issues."
Think about it Sirius and Snape never gave up their grudges and prejudices. The Death Eaters were all pretty much doing the same things they were doing as teenagers. And nobody really evolved at all for twenty years. You could almost argue Snape tried to grow in reverting to caring more about Lily's death rather than getting even at the world but even that's weak and he kind of failed at it. Lily and James died too soon and were not shown enough to really comment on. The only one that seemed to grow up at all was Lupin and he was wallowing in his werewolf pity-party until he married a girl nearly half his age.
As for halfbloods in general being powerful... look at the examples in various generations. Dumbledore. Voldemort. Snape (I know he's unpleasant but the guy was inventing and innovating spells and potions at 14-15 when NOBODY else was shown to be doing the same even when they are grown.) Harry. The half-bloods are the scary superpowers of their respective generations.
Honestly, I put this little tidbit right up there with Rowling "revealing" the "fact" that Dumbledore was gay. Mostly in the "who cares?" column. Canon was still canon regardless of this little drama bomb. Although the fact Emma Watson was chiming in reminds me of Rowling admitting she revealed Snape's fate to Alan Rickman before Deathly Hallows was released. I think she gets way more input from the actors playing her characters then she owns up to and it alters how she perceives the characters herself later.
Although if I was looking for a unifying theme in the books the two that come to mind are "half-bloods will always be more powerful and outshine pure bloods" and "wizards and witches from the previous generation can't grow up and deal with their issues."
Think about it Sirius and Snape never gave up their grudges and prejudices. The Death Eaters were all pretty much doing the same things they were doing as teenagers. And nobody really evolved at all for twenty years. You could almost argue Snape tried to grow in reverting to caring more about Lily's death rather than getting even at the world but even that's weak and he kind of failed at it. Lily and James died too soon and were not shown enough to really comment on. The only one that seemed to grow up at all was Lupin and he was wallowing in his werewolf pity-party until he married a girl nearly half his age.
As for halfbloods in general being powerful... look at the examples in various generations. Dumbledore. Voldemort. Snape (I know he's unpleasant but the guy was inventing and innovating spells and potions at 14-15 when NOBODY else was shown to be doing the same even when they are grown.) Harry. The half-bloods are the scary superpowers of their respective generations.
Honestly, I put this little tidbit right up there with Rowling "revealing" the "fact" that Dumbledore was gay. Mostly in the "who cares?" column. Canon was still canon regardless of this little drama bomb. Although the fact Emma Watson was chiming in reminds me of Rowling admitting she revealed Snape's fate to Alan Rickman before Deathly Hallows was released. I think she gets way more input from the actors playing her characters then she owns up to and it alters how she perceives the characters herself later.
Your comment about books 1-3 fitting together is truer than you think. The series never took off in popularity until after book 3 came out (the very first fanfic was released after PoA came out I think) but it exploded well before GoF came out. Wouldn't surprised me to hear there were plot changes as a result.
Point taken. Lupin backslid almost as much as Snape did the second he saw how much Harry resembled James. Sirius never tried to grow up and evolve. Pettigrew was just pathetic. As sad as it is to say the ones that evolved the most in the parents' generation were Lucius and Narcissa. They weren't good people but they at least were willing to risk everything and make sacrifices of their principles to protect/save their son the same way James and Lily did.
You know your generation screwed up as a whole when Lucius Malfoy becomes your shining example of growing up and getting your priorities straight.
You know your generation screwed up as a whole when Lucius Malfoy becomes your shining example of growing up and getting your priorities straight.
I never really got the pure-blood dominance/genocide of muggle-borns motive of the DE's. Wasn't it pointed out in Book 2 that if they hadn't married among muggles they would have died out?
If they had won the war, they would have been signing their society's death warrant. This just makes them look really stupid and short sighted.
Also Word of Rowling: "There is no such thing as a pureblood family. Every wizarding family has a muggle or a few among them. Some just choose to cross them over in their family tree and pretend they don't exist and instead claim themselves as purebloods."
The entire pure-blood thing is fucking bullshit. It's stuff like this that makes me understand why bashing is so rampant in Harry Potter. It's one thing to be a bigot, but to be a hypocritical one who is basically destroying their very civilization as well?
Now if the plot had went with it as being more along the lines of the Noble Houses wanting to retain their Aristocracy/Social Status over the increasing influx of commoners/muggle-borns moving in. That I could understand.
If they had won the war, they would have been signing their society's death warrant. This just makes them look really stupid and short sighted.
Also Word of Rowling: "There is no such thing as a pureblood family. Every wizarding family has a muggle or a few among them. Some just choose to cross them over in their family tree and pretend they don't exist and instead claim themselves as purebloods."
The entire pure-blood thing is fucking bullshit. It's stuff like this that makes me understand why bashing is so rampant in Harry Potter. It's one thing to be a bigot, but to be a hypocritical one who is basically destroying their very civilization as well?
Now if the plot had went with it as being more along the lines of the Noble Houses wanting to retain their Aristocracy/Social Status over the increasing influx of commoners/muggle-borns moving in. That I could understand.
I can't really blame Lupin for acting the way he did when he found out about Tonks' pregnancy, even if I don't approve of his actions. His child had a very real chance of being born diseased in a society that shuns his kind. I can understand why he'd freak out about it, but again, don't really approve of what he attempted upon finding out.
Ditto.
And... once he got out, he didn't have the chance to move on, because he couldn't go out and meet new people, or like get a job, or join a book club, or re-integrate into society in any way. He was basically under house arrest in his childhood home, hanging out with people from his youth, plotting how to take down the guy that murdered his best friend. There's clinging to your past, and there's being, like, dunked in it like quicksand.
Plus I think he did a really good job as Harry's godfather, you know, considering.
"You're treating him like James"... if that's the criticism that gets thrown at their relationship, then 1) I was willing to cut him some slack as he was trying to build a relationship with the kid out of nothing, and that had to start somewhere, and 2) getting treated like an equal was really good for Harry anyway. Harry was way more willing to go to Sirius with his problems than other adults, because Sirius treated them like they were serious issues (that wasn't a name pun, it was just the right word to use).
Plus I didn't think that Mr. Remus "Pretend like I didn't even know your parents until directly confronted about it" Lupin was in any position to criticize Sirius doing a crap job of getting along with the kid, let alone give good criticism.
So I feel like Sirius did a pretty good job, you know?
And... once he got out, he didn't have the chance to move on, because he couldn't go out and meet new people, or like get a job, or join a book club, or re-integrate into society in any way. He was basically under house arrest in his childhood home, hanging out with people from his youth, plotting how to take down the guy that murdered his best friend. There's clinging to your past, and there's being, like, dunked in it like quicksand.
Plus I think he did a really good job as Harry's godfather, you know, considering.
"You're treating him like James"... if that's the criticism that gets thrown at their relationship, then 1) I was willing to cut him some slack as he was trying to build a relationship with the kid out of nothing, and that had to start somewhere, and 2) getting treated like an equal was really good for Harry anyway. Harry was way more willing to go to Sirius with his problems than other adults, because Sirius treated them like they were serious issues (that wasn't a name pun, it was just the right word to use).
Plus I didn't think that Mr. Remus "Pretend like I didn't even know your parents until directly confronted about it" Lupin was in any position to criticize Sirius doing a crap job of getting along with the kid, let alone give good criticism.
So I feel like Sirius did a pretty good job, you know?
Well, assuming this happened (the BBC quotes an article from a magazine I've never heard of before) it was a mistake on two levels for Rowling. First, when you write you need to realize that relationships are one of the two major parts of a story (the other being conflict, which might be intertwined with relationships). You need to get those figured out. Second, going back on it just means that probably no one's really satisfied and can weaken the rest of what you wrote.
It actually would make more sense to me if she said that deliberately to spur more controversy in the fandom in an effort to try to keep people interested in her and her books.
It actually would make more sense to me if she said that deliberately to spur more controversy in the fandom in an effort to try to keep people interested in her and her books.
Nah, this doesn't weaken anything at all. What she wrote still stands, it isn't like she decided to reprint a revised version or anything. She did have it all figured out, that was what she regrets. She said that she forced the ships and that she regrets that. Additionally, the romance was in no way a vital major part of the books at all. You could remove it from the books and nothing would be lost at all.
Anyways, like I said before, Canon is still Canon.
All this does is spur the fandom to discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if this all started because how the movies were handled the ships. For those that don't know, the director for the last three films was an obvious H/Hr fan worked this ship in subtly while indelicately dealt with the canon ships by tossing it out there with heavy handed scenes. It wasn't happenstance that there were so many intimate Harry/Hermione scenes in the movies. I bet those movies had a lot to do with the change of heart, I mean, just watch HBF to DH2 and take notes of the intimate scenes between the trio and compare them. One pair has chemistry and actually has conversations full of feeling and intimacy and the other pair is explosive and seems to happen in the heat of the moment. Not saying that one is better or not but there was a clear difference in the movies.
Now the books... all the romances were horrible except for Neville/Heroism. He was the true hero in Hogwarts that year in the absence of the Trio and he stepped up beautifully.
Anyways, like I said before, Canon is still Canon.
All this does is spur the fandom to discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if this all started because how the movies were handled the ships. For those that don't know, the director for the last three films was an obvious H/Hr fan worked this ship in subtly while indelicately dealt with the canon ships by tossing it out there with heavy handed scenes. It wasn't happenstance that there were so many intimate Harry/Hermione scenes in the movies. I bet those movies had a lot to do with the change of heart, I mean, just watch HBF to DH2 and take notes of the intimate scenes between the trio and compare them. One pair has chemistry and actually has conversations full of feeling and intimacy and the other pair is explosive and seems to happen in the heat of the moment. Not saying that one is better or not but there was a clear difference in the movies.
Now the books... all the romances were horrible except for Neville/Heroism. He was the true hero in Hogwarts that year in the absence of the Trio and he stepped up beautifully.
I actually liked the reasoning from Tenhawk's fanfic about the purebloods having certain magical traits (like having better magical sense, better at warding and stuff) that they cultivate into their families while muggleborns supposedly don't bring anything to the table. If Rowling used something like that as being a big part of the pureblood movement then it would've made a lot more sense. Then again I just call Voldemort an insane megalomaniac that had a lot of magical power and had a lot of followers that were pretty much idiots...